[Snowdog]

I have an ever-so-vague idea of what each of these terms mean, though I doubt I fully comprehend either. I recently purchased a few hundred "swagged" .452 200gr SWC for my .45acp and began to wonder what the heck the difference was between these and the last few hundred LSWC I purchased (and since have used) that were "hard cast".

Doesn't swagged mean a tool or die was used to forcefully shape the bullet to some degree whereas the hard cast means to simply... well, cast?

I suspect the swagged bullets might have the potential of possessing less deviation in shape and weight from bullet to bullet. If so, wouldn't these generally be considered ideal for more formal target sessions?

I enjoyed excellent accuracy from the last batch of lead SWC I purchased (most loaded over 5.0gr of W231) and have absolutely no doubt that cast bullets can be very accurate indeed. I'm simply curious as to the difference and why people bother to manufacture bullets using swagging techniques as opposed to casting.

Thanks in advance!

[only1asterisk]

I'd say you've pretty much got it. The main thing is not to push soft swaged bullets too fast, or very hard cast bullets not fast enough.

David

[Sheldon]

As mentioned you pretty much "know" the difference. Because the swaged bullets are actually pressed into their shape, they are pretty soft in comparison to the hard cast. The cast are harder due to the formulation of the lead which will have a percentage of tin and antimony to make them harder and for the lead to flow into the molds better. Both can give excellent accuracy, but the swaged will have the velocity limitation because of leading.

[RyanM]

Swaged (sway-jd) bullets don't have a velocity restriction if they're jacketed. The advantages over cast are cost and time of mass production, being able to use jackets, no toxic lead fumes, no seams in the bullet, and potentially greater precision. Swaging is pretty much the only way that jacketed bullets are made.

There are also some machines that are capable of swaging harder alloys, but they're pretty expensive.

[only1asterisk]

.

[Snowdog]

Thanks for the info.
One thing I didn't know was that swaged slugs are typically softer than the alloys used in hard cast slugs. Had I known this, I think I would have stuck with the hard cast supplier I was using. I had very little problems with leading with the cast SWCs I used, though they only had a Brinell hardness of 13.

Does anyone want to guess what a decent velocity limit should be set at with your typical .45acp swaged lead SWC? I'd like to keep them at a mild 750 FPS or so, would leading pose a problem at these speeds (using 231 or Power Pistol)?

I was thinking the swaged slugs offered the "prospects" of slightly better uniformity from slug to slug... however, increased leading due to softer lead is certainly not worth it in my book as I never shoot less than 200 rounds at a time when using my 1911 and reloads. Next time I'm asking before buying.

[only1asterisk]

The maximum velocity for swaged bullets depends varies with exact bullet design, but I don't think you will have a problem until you get to 850fps or so. Swaged bullets are great in 45 ACP target loads. I honesty don't shoot well enough to see any difference between the accuracy of swaged bullets and good quality cast. I shoot both. I unusually reserve the cast bullets for higher velocity loads that better replicate the recoil of self defense loads.

You can get leading from bullets that are too hard too. In either case, faster powders might be helpful for better consistancy. Clays, Green Dot, Bullseye, WST, etc.

David

[jerkface11]

Doesn't lee make a kit that tests the bullet hardness and tells you what velocity you should use for a certain caliber?

[LHB1]

I've been making and shooting cast lead bullets for 40+ years with what I consider to be excellent results. Typical sighting in group of 5 shots from S&W M629 pistol in .44 Mag with 6.5" barrel and 2X scope measure less than 3". The load uses a 255 gr cast bullet from H&G mold at 1425 fps as tested thru Oehler chrono. I don't use swaged lead bullets due to the softer lead and inadequate lube provisions. Just my .02

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

[brickeyee]

Most swaged bullets are pure lead. No alloying added to increase hardness.
They are good for low velocity loads like 148 HBWC and 230 RN in a .45 ACP.
They will lead like the dickens if fired much above 1000 ft/s from plain old friction with the bore.
Tin is mostly for mold filling and flow of the mix. Antimony is useful for hardening.
Harder bullets must be driven with enough pressure to make them obturate (seal) the bore or the blow-by powder gases melt the bullet and produce horrible leading.

[Aneat]

Ive been using Star 185 swaged bullets in my 45 for years. Certainly the way to go for accuracy. I shoot mine with 4 grains of bullseye for ~730 fps and they will shoot well under 2 inches at 50 yrds. They do lead up a little but I generally go about 500 rounds between cleanings. I do use a Kart barrel, smooth as glass bore, which I believe helps reduce leading.

There are some commercially cast bullets that can be as accurate but most are terrible. I recently tried some 185's available locally that were the H&G130 style and they were terrible. Probably 5" at 50 yrds.



Adam

[VonFatman]

Like brickeyee mentioned, I use swaged 148gr HBWC's from Rose and love them. I don't push them very hard...2.9gr of Bullseye or 3.5gr of Win-231 and they fly just fine. My wife and I love to shoot these as does my daughter and other kids who might not like much recoil.

I was shooting Berry's plated bullets (HBWCs) and liked them just fine, but they cost a lot more and I didn't gain any accuracy...they were cleaner to handle though.

Good luck.

Bob

[Gewehr98]

Most of the 148gr hollow-based wadcutters found in target .38 Special loads are swaged. They're purposely kept soft, so that the hollow-based bullet skirt can bump up, or obturate, and completely fill the bore once the bullet gets past the gun's forcing cone upon firing. That tight fit makes for excellent accuracy, and with the proper lube and bore fit, there is no leading of the bore.

The soft lead of swaged bullets is also a very attractive thing for folks who shoot black powder cartridge rifle loads. I'm running a 500gr swaged spitzer, drawn and swaged from lead wire, in my .45-70 Sharps Model 1874, with a full case of Goex Cartridge grade black powder. Even with a 32" barrel and 1300fps velocity, I have no leading, and excellent accuracy. The bullets have two very generous lube grooves machined into them, and carry enough of my lard/beeswax lube to create a "lube star" at the muzzle after firing. The dead-soft swaged bullets, even in the big numbers like .45-70 or .50-70, also obturate when the black powder charge detonates, making for a tight bullet-bore fit for best accuracy. ;)