Best Pistol Caliber

[kennyboy]

What do you think is the best pistol caliber? As I have said before, I prefer the .45ACP-great stopping power and big holes. I was just wondering what everyone else seems to think and why.

[Biker]

Here we go...;)
There is no "best". My favorite is 45 LC. It has history and is indeed versatile.
Good luck on your quest.
Biker:)

[kevin387]

Depends on how you define best. I would say .357. It can do a whole of everything and is even considered by some the best for somethings.

[Baba Louie]

It's BEST to have some of each.
.22 lr for plinking, training and introducing newbies
.380 cause it's so... cute :p
9mm cause it was designed for the Luger and is inexpensive
.38 spl cause it's so versatile
.357 cause it's even more versatile than the .38
.44 spl cause it's so fun
.44 mag cause it's so much MORE fun
.45 Colt & acp just cause it's a bigger hole and ohso American

Best is relative. What's best for me may not be the best for my 21 yr old daughter or 73 yr old mother. In pistols I like .45acp and 9mm. In revolvers I like .38 spl. and .45 Colt

YMMV

[Black Majik]

.45 ACP > 9mm > .22 > .380 > .40 > .32 > .25

[ewb45acp]

There is no best. If I had to choose "the most versatile cartridge", I would pick .357 mag. My favorite would be .45ACP.

[Vern Humphrey]

There are only four useful pistol cartridges (and if you don't believe me, ask me and I'll tell you again.):p

1. .22 LR. Everyone needs a .22 pistol. Preferrably a dozen or so.

2. .357 Magnum -- accurate, powerful and highly versatile. I include the .38 Special as a subset of the .357.

3. .45 ACP. Unbeatable as a defense or combat pistol, especially in the platform designed for it, the M1911.

4. .45 Colt -- in a Ruger, you can shade the .44 Magnum with it.

[ChristopherG]

.41 magnum. With a pile of short-cut .41 special brass on the side. And, needless to say, a reloading setup.

Really, you could get away with almost any revolver cartridge and a reloading press, if you take 'best' to at least include (if not to mean straight-out) 'most versatile'. It's actually easier to just eliminate rounds and see what's left. So which pistol calibers are NOT the 'best', and why?

Anything below .357 magnum is out, because they don't have the ability to take medium game reliably--which the 'best' surely can do (so no .22, .32, .380, or [sorry, folks] 9mm).

Anything above a .44 mag or hot-loaded .45 colt (but see below on the .45 colt) can be a fine cartridge in it's slot, but is too powerful for lots of uses, and requires too big a platform for just plain totin' around, so they're out.

Okay, so we're down to the .38/357-.45 window.

Now the .45 colt can be a great cartridge, but it was designed as a black powder cartridge, and so has a tremendously oversized case for most (i.e., non-nuclear) smokeless loads. This wastes space, oversizes the gun, and makes it tricky to load accurately at lower pressure levels. So, to me, the .45 Colt is a great cartridge, but not the best. Nostalgic and marvelous, but flawed for many modern applications.

Now the choice between the remaining candidates kinda boils down to a balance of how much power range you want vs. how much gun you're willing to tote. Anything from a .38 to a .44 (or .45acp/ar) can be downloaded as low as anyone might reasonably need or want. So the real question of power range is how mighty can they be? Of these candidates, the .44 is the clear winner. For me, the .41 can be made as powerful as anything I really want to shoot without a shoulder stock. I could even get away with a good modern .45acp revolver with a mess of Autorim brass and 250 gr .45 colt bullets, which can be pushed to a solid 1100 fps. But that combo gives up a lot of range to one of the real magnums.

So there you have it. The .44 or .41 mag is the best handgun cartridge, properly and variously reloaded. The .357, if you want a little less gun and a little less power. Or maybe the .45, if you just must have an autoloader in the same caliber.

And they said it couldn't be done! ;)

[McCall911]

I like everything everyone else has mentioned, but I'll have to add the 10mm Auto. A very versatile and accurate cartridge!

[ChristopherG]

Yeah, I knew I was shorting the 10mm. That's the one you could really get by with even if you didn't like sixguns (heresy!). Of course, if you're lucky or determined, you could grab up a S&W 610, though those 6 inchers are rare as hens' teeth.

[3rdpig]

What does "best" mean to you?

For me it would be .357 magnum for the revolvers and 9mm Luger for the semi's.

But "best" can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people. Best for me means a cartridge that is very common and I can get anywhere, can be used for cheap plinking and practice and still be powerful enough for self defense or small to medium game, is chambered in a wide variety of weapons that can be easily obtained and inexpensive, have a wide variety of ammo types, and be easy to shoot well. There may be other cartridges that fill my requirements for "best", but .357 and 9mm seem to top the list.

[Deer Hunter]

In my honest opinion, I would vote the 10mm auto. .357 magnum power in a large capacity automatic handgun package. Great for just about anything. It's not a .44 mag, but then again you really don't NEED that much gun.

[TallPine]

There are only four useful pistol cartridges (and if you don't believe me, ask me and I'll tell you again.):p

1. .22 LR. Everyone needs a .22 pistol. Preferrably a dozen or so.

2. .357 Magnum -- accurate, powerful and highly versatile. I include the .38 Special as a subset of the .357.

3. .45 ACP. Unbeatable as a defense or combat pistol, especially in the platform designed for it, the M1911.

4. .45 Colt -- in a Ruger, you can shade the .44 Magnum with it.
+1 :)

Though I personally have skipped #3 ... nothing wrong with it, and I might get one someday.

I have a neat trick worked up for reloading: using Unique powder, I load slightly hot .45 Colt rounds with exactly twice the powder charge as "target" .357/38 rounds. One pull for the .357/38 and two pulls for the .45:)

[Mad Chemist]

What do you think is the best pistol caliber? As I have said before, I prefer the .45ACP-great stopping power and big holes. I was just wondering what everyone else seems to think and why.

The search function is your friend.:rolleyes: You should try it. It's quick, easy, and informative.:neener:
BTW, welcome to THR.

[CAnnoneer]

9mm autos and .357 revos

[Nightcrawler]

Crimeny.

.30 Luger, obviously. Duh. :rolleyes:

Second place? 8mm Nambu or .32 S&W Long. I can't decide.

[chaim]

Best for what?

-Best in a small pocketable gun? 9mm (think Kahr PM9)- it can be put in a very small concealable gun with much less recoil than .40S&W. It has enough power potential for most self-defense needs.

-Best for versatility (important if you may only own one gun)? 9mm or .357mag depending upon whether you are a revolver or auto fan. Both allow cheap practice and capable defensive ammo.

-Best for fun? IMHO it would be .41mag.

-Best for the woods? Depends on what part of the country you are in. Here where smallish black bears are the worst you'll encounter I'd say .41mag. It gives a lot of power (enough to have a decent chance against a bear) yet without the punishing recoil of .44mag you have faster follow-up shots. Further west where you may encounter brown bears, .44mag since you'll likely want the extra power (yet it will give better follow-up speed than the big bruisers). Alaska or someplace with really big grizzlies- .454, .480Ruger, 500S&W and similar.

-Best for a smallish CCW auto (think Glock 26/27 or Taurus Milennium Pro size)? .40S&W. Recoil isn't bad, allows a smaller frame than .45ACP, and allows you more freedom in ammo selection than 9mm.

-Best for a full-sized auto? 9mm and .45ACP. More power in the .45ACP (thus more flexibility in ammo selection), high-cap in 9mm.

I'm leaving many out, but you have the idea.

[tc300mag1]

i guess ill go by what i have most of 357's and 45's

But man is the 500 fun to shoot and i sure love the 41 in general i like up all but the 40S&W

[Jim PHL]

If someone made a K/L-frame revo and a j-frame in .45 ACP, I would stick to one caliber! (How about a 4-shot centennial snub!)

[1911 guy]

For an auto, I'd pick the .45acp. For a revolver, I'd go with the .357 magnum. Varying answers, because the design of a revolver allows for a whole different range of cartridges than autos.

[355sigfan]

I like both the 9mm and 45. I like the 45 because it makes nice big deep holes with moderate recoil. I like the 9mm because it has good power and fits in some really small guns. In large guns it is very easy to shoot well.
Pat

[Sir Aardvark]

.45ACP ALL THE WAY!

reasons why the .45ACP is the best:

Getting shot with a .45ACP is like getting hit by a freight train
A 9mm might expand, but a .45ACP will never shrink
Battle-proven cartridge for most of the 20th century
Will not over-penetrate like the 9mm
Who needs high-capacity magazines when a .45ACP will give a 1-shot kill.
Ammo is plentiful and cheap!

[Sir Aardvark]

Hands down the 9mm is THE BEST!

9mm offers:

More than adequate penetration
High-Capacity magazines
Available ammunition, being a NATO cartridge
The Army adopted it, so it must work
Smaller round means smaller handgun - important for concealment

[Merkin.Muffley]

I like the .22

[355sigfan]

.45ACP ALL THE WAY!

reasons why the .45ACP is the best:

Getting shot with a .45ACP is like getting hit by a freight train
A 9mm might expand, but a .45ACP will never shrink
Battle-proven cartridge for most of the 20th century
Will not over-penetrate like the 9mm
Who needs high-capacity magazines when a .45ACP will give a 1-shot kill.
Ammo is plentiful and cheap!

I hope this post is in jest. Getting hit by a 45 is not like a freight train. I know of one shooting victim who took a 45 ball round in the head and it skidded along the outside of the skull under the scalp and did very minor damge. The victim was walking and talking.

With good Jhp's the 9mm is not over penetrative. With ball ammo the 45 will over penetrate. Thats a wash.

The one shot stop is a myth with any handgun caliber. If you follow those who track such things like Evan Marshall the best 45 rounds are only slightly ahead of the best 9mm rounds.

I love the 45 but its not the hammer of thor.
Pat

[Nightcrawler]

.41 Colt, maybe?

[Professor Gun]

The best handgun calibers all start with a "4".

My favorites: .45 LC, .45 ACP, .44 Mag

[MachIVshooter]

IMO and with a lot of supporting data, the 10mm is the most versatile pistol caliber.

The .357 mag is the most versatile revlover caliber, and the ballistic twin of the 10mm.

This does not translate to these cartridges being the best; they can simply be used effectively in more situations than other handgun rounds. They are borderline overkill for defense against human threats and are at the low end of the hunting/predator defense cartridges, but for someone looking to get the most use out of a single handgun, these two cartridges are as good as it gets.

If I had to choose only one handgun to keep, it would be my S&W 1006. If I could choose another, it would be my S&W model 65 4".

[EddieCoyle]

I'll throw my hat into the ring....

10 mm

Can be loaded as powerful as a .357 mag or as light as you like. Get a S&W 1076 and 610 for an auto/revolver pair. You can even shoot .40 S&W out of the 610.

[gunteacher]

Who needs high-capacity magazines when a .45ACP will give a 1-shot kill.


Unfortunately when your in a dynamic environment..(getting shot at), 1 shot kill isn't a reality. Magazine capacity matters.

[355sigfan]

Who needs high-capacity magazines when a .45ACP will give a 1-shot kill.


Unfortunately when your in a dynamic environment..(getting shot at), 1 shot kill isn't a reality. Magazine capacity matters.

Actually I agree but magazine capacity does not matter much. Shot placement is whats critical. An 8 round pistol is plenty for most situations. Your not going to have time to dump that much lead out. If you are then your either missing and lucky the other guy is as bad a shot as you. Or your dead because he hit you while you where spraying and praying. Or you dumped him with your first 2 or 3 well placed rounds.
Pat

[f4t9r]

Im gonna go with 22 and 45
as my fav.

[Vex]

Sorry, I'm one of the guys who subscribe to the .40S&W. It's the ultimate compromise. Heavy bullets (165gr) at fast velocity (1,150fps) make for some very interesting wound channels. Wally World sells practice rounds for fifteen cents each (box of 100 for $15.65), which makes it affordable. Recoil is noticable, but not too much for a double- or triple-tap. In normal off-the-shelf varieties, they're not as accurate as a 9mm or .45acp, but we're talking a difference of 1 inch groups at 75 feet. Black Hills Ammo has solved this problem somehow, and their 165 grain JHP EXP is extremely accurate, firing a 165gr Gold Dot bullet at the above stated 1,150fps... Massad Ayoob stated in his book about Sigs that he shot a 3-inch group with it out of a 4" barrel (Sig P229) from 75 feet. Furthermore, for you SHTF survivalists, think about the fact that most police departments are using the .40S&W now. Yet another fact is that there are many weapons currently chambered in .40S&W available that can convert to .357sig with a simple barrel swap, which gives versatility for shooters who want something fun to play with on the range. Also, the .40S&W is available in weights from 135grain to 200grain... plenty of variety for everyone's personal taste.

Capacity, power, accuracy, availability... all of these make the .40S&W a round to be reckoned.

It's worth an editorial note that I believe the .40S&W received a bad rap because if it's name... the S&W part on the end. Soon after the round was born in 1990, Smith and Wesson helped the Clinton's establish some pretty crappy firearms control laws. Pro-Gun people were turned off by this, thus the inherent shunning of the .40S&W, and probably the cause of some people's views on the round.

[Infidel]

10mm

[Ala Dan]

I agree totally, as there probably isn't a "BEST"; but I'm a fan of the .45ACP~!:D

[jamz]

Gunteacher (Welcome to THR! :) ) and 355Sigfan, I think you missed the part about Sir Aardvark joking. :D

Note his post just after his .45ACP one.



Plus, it's more like getting hit with the Commuter Rail :p

[P. Plainsman]

In revolvers, the .44 caliber (.429) is my favorite.
.44 Magnum for hunting and .44 Special for targets, self-defense, and general shootin'. Love 'em both. Tend to be accurate cartridges, and tend to come in accurate, well finished guns with correct chamber diameters.

In autoloaders, the 9mm for ease of shooting with reasonable power. Also like and respect the .45 ACP but did not get along with a SIG and am still looking for the right .45. Not interested in the .40.

For CCW, I have to say the 9mm, which has seen a wave of excellent, innovative carry guns in the past decade. (Though I personally favor a pocket revolver in .38 Special +P.)

[JohnKSa]

WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.

If you have to pick a SINGLE handgun round to do EVERYTHING, I would say that it would be harder to make a better choice than the .357Magnum.

Even Elmer Keith, Mr. Bigbore himself, agreed that it was "an adequate manstopper under all conditions." He also felt that it was effective for gameshooting.

There are very practical concealment handguns in .357Magnum, all the way up to full-size hunting handguns that are adequate (if not ideal) for taking most game encountered in North America.

If you restrict the choice to autoloading cartridges, then the 10mm is probably about as good as can be picked for an all-around cartridge. Shouldn't be terribly surprising as it's similar to the .357 in performance. As with the .357Magnum, you can use it practically for everything from concealment to hunting big game.

There are certainly better cartridges than these for specific purposes, but these are at least adequate for anything you would wish a handgun to do.

[Sir Aardvark]

Jamz -

Thanks for being observant!

[355sigfan]

WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.

If you have to pick a SINGLE handgun round to do EVERYTHING, I would say that it would be harder to make a better choice than the .357Magnum.

Even Elmer Keith, Mr. Bigbore himself, agreed that it was "an adequate manstopper under all conditions." He also felt that it was effective for gameshooting.

There are very practical concealment handguns in .357Magnum, all the way up to full-size hunting handguns that are adequate (if not ideal) for taking most game encountered in North America.

If you restrict the choice to autoloading cartridges, then the 10mm is probably about as good as can be picked for an all-around cartridge. Shouldn't be terribly surprising as it's similar to the .357 in performance. As with the .357Magnum, you can use it practically for everything from concealment to hunting big game.

There are certainly better cartridges than these for specific purposes, but these are at least adequate for anything you would wish a handgun to do.


If I had to do it with one round the 44 mag is a far better choice than the 357 mag. The 357 mag is a medium game round not a large game round.

[Deer Hunter]

The .44 magnum may be great on large animals, but around here the whitetails don't get that large. I could easily take a white tail with a .357. The .357 magnum, and its automatic handgun counterpart the 10mm, are the most versitile because they can take a wide range of game, yet are not quite large enough to be considered "hand cannons" and are frequently used in home protection. I consider the .44 magnum to be overkill on anything besides large game animals, so using it for home protection to me seems like a bit much. I trust both the .357 and 10mm, and would pick them up over a .44 magnum anyday.

[355sigfan]

The .44 magnum may be great on large animals, but around here the whitetails don't get that large. I could easily take a white tail with a .357. The .357 magnum, and its automatic handgun counterpart the 10mm, are the most versitile because they can take a wide range of game, yet are not quite large enough to be considered "hand cannons" and are frequently used in home protection. I consider the .44 magnum to be overkill on anything besides large game animals, so using it for home protection to me seems like a bit much. I trust both the .357 and 10mm, and would pick them up over a .44 magnum anyday.


The 44 mag is not overkill if loaded properly. A 4 inch 629 is about the worlds most versatile pistol. With 44 special loads its a great small game gun and a target gun. With mid range 44 mag loads (200 grain gold dot at 1000 fps) its a great defensive pistol.

With 240 grain loads at 1200 fps its a great deer gun. With 300 grain loads at 1100 its a good bear defense back up to a rifle. The 357 mag is ok for people and small game and medium game like deer. But its not powerfull enough for humane kills on Moose, Elk and Bear.
Pat

[JohnKSa]

WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.The 357 mag is a medium game round not a large game round.I'd much rather shoot large game with a .357 Magnum once in a while (even though it's not ideal for that job) than have to conceal a .44Magnum. ;)

Or worse, try to convince my wife that: "Honey, this .44Mag handgun is your new concealed carry pistol". :eek: It would even be a very hard sell to get her to use one as a home defense pistol with .44Special rounds.

This gets back to what I said about it not being the best at specific tasks but being the best OVERALL choice.

If you gotta pick ONE, then you have to take ALL the uses for a handgun into account. If you take the approach that concealed carry isn't an issue then the scale tips upwards toward the larger magnums. On the other hand, if you ignore handgun hunting, then the focus turns away from magnums altogether.

[Deer Hunter]

The .44 magnum is a great round, I wont argue that. I'm just not that keen on large bore magnum handguns. I'd much rather have a .44 magnum in a levergun, since I could push the .44 magnum to it's absolute potential without the large recoil. If I had to choose one, like afformentioned by John, it would be the .357 wheelgun (preferably the 8-shot 627 Smith), or a 10mm auto (the italian tanfolgio hunter edition).

If I were going to hunt deer and try to fend off bear attacks, I'd reach for my twelve gauge. I wont have a pistol as a main weapon when I've got a 6 pound (ouch the recoil!) twelve gauge that is just as easy to haul around.

[jungle]

The best is what you shoot best in a pistol you are comfortable with, obviously bigger is better if you can shoot and carry it under the specified circumstances.
It is also apparent that smaller is better for some cases given need for concealment or the need for rapid follow up shots. 9mm or .45ACP gets my vote for practical carry. I'd use a rifle for anything in the wild.

[355sigfan]

The best is what you shoot best in a pistol you are comfortable with, obviously bigger is better if you can shoot and carry it under the specified circumstances.
It is also apparent that smaller is better for some cases given need for concealment or the need for rapid follow up shots. 9mm or .45ACP gets my vote for practical carry. I'd use a rifle for anything in the wild.

I find its not overly difficult to conceal a N Frame smith with a 4 inch tube so long as you have a good holster and dress right. Its not easy but neither is concealing a 4 inch K frame 357 mag. Thats why I am glad we are not limited to one gun. Autos do far better for concealment and anti personal threats of the two legged variety. large bore revolvers do better against 4 legged threats.
Pat

[isp2605]

Actually I agree but magazine capacity does not matter much. Shot placement is whats critical. An 8 round pistol is plenty for most situations. Your not going to have time to dump that much lead out. If you are then your either missing and lucky the other guy is as bad a shot as you. Or your dead because he hit you while you where spraying and praying. Or you dumped him with your first 2 or 3 well placed rounds.
Pat

I have a good friend who would probably disagree with you. In 1982 we were carrying S&W 439 with Federal 115 BP. He made a traffic stop on a wrong way driver. The driver opened up on him from inside the car with a 6 shot revolver and my friend returned fire from cover as the BG rolled out. While reloading the BG ran up to my friend's location and attempted to shoot him from less than arms reach. Fortunately the BG had emptied his gun. As my friend continued reloading the guy scooted off. We found the BG later with 1 rd lodged in his wallet. We believe that rd had been one of the last my friend fired before he went to slide lock. The first 3 rds hit the windshield right where it joins the dash. Those were stopped in the dash. Another rd hit the headlight. Another took out the side window. 3 went thru the open door that the BG was crouched behind. We believe one of those rds went thru the door, entered the subject's leg at the knee, traveled thru a bit of flesh before it exited but continued along the thigh making a cut, then went thru his hip where it exited and came to rest in the guy's wallet.
I came up just as the last rd was being fired. We found him a few hours later hiding under a car.
Were 9 rds enough? Maybe since my friend is still alive. Fortunately the 6 rds weren't enough for the BG as he ran dry. Granted, this wasn't one of those "most" situations but when will the "rare" situation occur? One never knows. For my buddy it occurred one night in 1982.

[355sigfan]

I have a good friend who would probably disagree with you. In 1982 we were carrying S&W 439 with Federal 115 BP. He made a traffic stop on a wrong way driver. The driver opened up on him from inside the car with a 6 shot revolver and my friend returned fire from cover as the BG rolled out. While reloading the BG ran up to my friend's location and attempted to shoot him from less than arms reach. Fortunately the BG had emptied his gun. As my friend continued reloading the guy scooted off. We found the BG later with 1 rd lodged in his wallet. We believe that rd had been one of the last my friend fired before he went to slide lock. The first 3 rds hit the windshield right where it joins the dash. Those were stopped in the dash. Another rd hit the headlight. Another took out the side window. 3 went thru the open door that the BG was crouched behind. We believe one of those rds went thru the door, entered the subject's leg at the knee, traveled thru a bit of flesh before it exited but continued along the thigh making a cut, then went thru his hip where it exited and came to rest in the guy's wallet.
I came up just as the last rd was being fired. We found him a few hours later hiding under a car.
Were 9 rds enough? Maybe since my friend is still alive. Fortunately the 6 rds weren't enough for the BG as he ran dry. Granted, this wasn't one of those "most" situations but when will the "rare" situation occur? One never knows. For my buddy it occurred one night in 1982.


For you buddies situation more use of the front sight would have been better than 30 more rounds in the mag. Also I am not insulting your friend. I know of other police shootings just like it. Cops as a rule don't train enough and when the time comes many resort to spray and pray. I have a friend who ran away while firing over his shoulder. One of his rounds ricocheted off the ground and hit the bad guy stopping him. He was lucky not good.

I will conceed having more ammo is always a tactical advantage. But other factors are more important for pistol gun fights like, reliability, accuracy, ergonomics ( how well the gun fits your hand which directly translates into hit potential) and stopping power or wounding potential (how big of a hole the bullet makes)

Pat

[isp2605]

For you buddies situation more use of the front sight would have been better than 30 more rounds in the mag. Also I am not insulting your friend. I know of other police shootings just like it. Cops as a rule don't train enough and when the time comes many resort to spray and pray. I have a friend who ran away while firing over his shoulder. One of his rounds ricocheted off the ground and hit the bad guy stopping him. He was lucky not good.

Pat

Sorry, tactical expert, firearms instructor. Your conclusion and advice is off base on this one. The guy was on SWAT with me, we trained a lot together, and he is a very good shooter. I've been on numerous call outs with him. Seen him in some very tense situations. He's a cool operator.
Here's the situation. It was just after 2 AM. The way the traffic stop went down, wrong way driver, so they were parked with the front of the squad facing the front of the BG's car. He was looking into the headlights of the stopped vehicle. The guy was shooting from between the door frame and the open door. What by friend was shooting at was where he thought the BG was probably located behind the cover. Try it and then tell us exactly what you see looking into headlights. Tell me just how much "front sight" you can pick up.
Also, I don't know if you've ever been in a shoot out and shot at. I have. I can tell you that on each occasion it's been nothing like punching holes in paper.

[JohnKSa]

WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.Its not easy but neither is concealing a 4 inch K frame 357 mag.... Thats why I am glad we are not limited to one gun. This thread is about one CALIBER, not one GUN. There are much more concealable firearms available in .357 Mag than in .44. Mag and one can certainly find a much more easily concealed .357Mag than a 4" K Frame.so long as you ... dress right.I've heard the "get a good holster and dress right" argument a lot, but it's not always possible nor practical. The gun is there for me, not me for the gun. I'll make some changes and sacrifices, but I'm not going to start a new wardrobe.

And if most men suggested that their wives "dress right"--meaning "dress right so you can conceal a .44mag handgun"--they'd be in more danger from their wives than from criminals. ;)

[355sigfan]

Sorry, tactical expert, firearms instructor. Your conclusion and advice is off base on this one. The guy was on SWAT with me, we trained a lot together, and he is a very good shooter. I've been on numerous call outs with him. Seen him in some very tense situations. He's a cool operator.
Here's the situation. It was just after 2 AM. The way the traffic stop went down, wrong way driver, so they were parked with the front of the squad facing the front of the BG's car. He was looking into the headlights of the stopped vehicle. The guy was shooting from between the door frame and the open door. What by friend was shooting at was where he thought the BG was probably located behind the cover. Try it and then tell us exactly what you see looking into headlights. Tell me just how much "front sight" you can pick up.
Also, I don't know if you've ever been in a shoot out and shot at. I have. I can tell you that on each occasion it's been nothing like punching holes in paper.

No offense was meant like I said but the facts speak for themselves. 9 rounds fired 1 hit. Thats about a 12% hit ratio.
I was not there I don't know the conditions and he did live score one for the good guys. My point that capacity is not a huge factor in most situations. I am glad your friend lived to tell the tale.
Pat

[miko]

.357/38Sp +p revolver, .40 semi-auto for self-defence pistols.

miko

[isp2605]

No offense was meant like I said but the facts speak for themselves. 9 rounds fired 1 hit. Thats about a 12% hit ratio.

Read again and you'll see that the one rd that did hit him was after going thru cover. Shooting against a person who is behind cover, who is moving, looking into headlights, 2 AM, and taking incoming fire. The books, video games, and internet commandos all make it sound easy.

[Marshall]

;) The one in your hand for the job.

[lawson]

my personal favorites are .357 magnum, .38 special, and .45 Long Colt.

[kennyboy]

I'll throw my hat into the ring....

10 mm

Can be loaded as powerful as a .357 mag or as light as you like. Get a S&W 1076 and 610 for an auto/revolver pair. You can even shoot .40 S&W out of the 610.
I always say the 10mm is a .40 on steroids lol. The 10mm was decommissioned by the FBI because it did not merely stop criminals who were shot, but usually killed them. What I'm saying is that for killing, the 10mm is more effective than the .45ACP, but the power is offset by ammo cost, recoil, and high chamber pressure which strains the gun.

[JohnKSa]

WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.

The 10mm was dropped by the FBI due to a somewhat complicated chain of events, but excessive lethality of the round played exactly zero part in that process. And while 10mm chamber pressure is higher than the .45ACP, it's not so high that a well designed gun will be "strained" by it.

[Srigs]

Here are what I choose!

1. 40 S&W as HD and SHTF cal
2. 9mm for carry and backup HD and SHTF
3. 32 or 38 as last resort gun BUG
4. 22LR better than a stick :D

[DHart]

There is no "best" caliber... just a number of very good choices, depending....

Depending on your needs and requirements in size of gun, 9mm, .40, .45acp, .357, .44 mag are all wonderful calibers.

In a full size auto pistol, I love .45 acp, but REALLY LOVE 10MM!!! For defense use, a 10mm 175 gr. Winchester Silvertip going 1300 fps from a full size 1911 (like a Colt Delta Elite or Dan Wesson Razorback) is a very effective and comfortable defense load for a pistol! If you don't have a TEN yet, you have no idea what a great caliber you're missing out on... you should definitely consider getting one!

[wanderinwalker]

In my honest opinion, I would vote the 10mm auto. .357 magnum power in a large capacity automatic handgun package. Great for just about anything. It's not a .44 mag, but then again you really don't NEED that much gun.

What do ya mean I don't NEED no stinkin' .44 Magnum? Yer puny little 10mm is a girl's gun next to a REAL cartridge! ;) j/k, in case you hadn't guessed.

I will vote .44 Magnum as most versatile, if you can deal with the size of the pistols and are a reloader. If a non-reloader, than a .357 Magnum or even a 10mm Auto would likely be an improvement, as both are far easier to carry and softer on shooters, even at full-power levels.

FWIW, I rarely load my .44 Magnums to full-power levels for plinking. I tend to reserve the big flame throwers for entertaining guests at the range or carrying in the woods. Or sometimes just to put a big, maniacal grin on my face! :evil: One of my friends once saw me shoot a couple cylinders of full-house mags and asked, "Is that fun." To which I replied, "In the same way running down cute, furry, defenseless animals with my car is fun." :D

[DHart]

wanderinwalker... I like .44 mag also, when watered down a bit... I never shoot full-house .44 mag loads... much preferring a loading somewhere between .44 special and full house .44 mag. In such a loading, there is plenty of power, but also comfortable shooting which isn't hard on the gun nor on the shooter. If I were in bear country, yes, I would carry full house loads, but otherwise, not need for me.

Typically, I lean toward the 1911 platform (though I have a bunch of wonderful revos), and lately, the 10mm Delta Elite has really captured my attention and appreciation. What an awesome, effective, and easy to shoot caliber 10mm is! And to be able to have it in a Colt 1911 is a dream come true for me.

[kennyboy]

WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.

The 10mm was dropped by the FBI due to a somewhat complicated chain of events, but excessive lethality of the round played exactly zero part in that process. And while 10mm chamber pressure is higher than the .45ACP, it's not so high that a well designed gun will be "strained" by it.
I received my information from www.wikipedia.org. I did not research everything thoroughly i.e. just stumbled upon it on wikipedia. Also, when I said, "strained" I conveying the idea that the 10mm puts more stress on a gun than a .45ACP, not meaning that the gun's performance, etc. will decline tremendously or at a rate too much greater than a .45ACP. That's all.

[EddieCoyle]

I received my information from www.wikipedia.org. I did not research everything thoroughly i.e. just stumbled upon it on wikipedia. Also, when I said, "strained" I conveying the idea that the 10mm puts more stress on a gun than a .45ACP, not meaning that the gun's performance, etc. will decline tremendously or at a rate too much greater than a .45ACP. That's all.


My 12 year-old has updated Wikipedia (accurately I might add, but Wikipedia is not always accurate). If you get the right gun - in other words a gun designed for the 10mm (like a S&W 610, 1006, or 1076), you can consistently shoot ammo loaded so hot it that will flatten the primers and you'll be able to will the gun to your grandkids. So what if it puts more "stress" on a gun than .45? A .357 will put more stress on a gun than .38 SPL, but .357 guns are designed to take it. So are guns designed for 10 mm. Well, except the Bren Ten... I'm kidding. However, I truly believe that the Bren Ten's early problems helped to give the 10mm an underserved reputation as a gun wrecking caliber.

Since you're doing your research on Wikipedia rather than at the range I'll assume that you haven't fired a lot of 10mm. With current average factory loads or moderate handloads, the recoil is more than manageable, with impressive ballistics. With hot handloads or some of the somewhat-hard-to-find factory full-power ammo, it is an absolute tiger (but still manageable).

I don't mean to jump down your throat but you'll find us 10mm defenders to be a tenacious lot, especially when old incorrect sterotypes are thrown our way.

[MCgunner]

Best for WHAT? For squirrel hunting, the best pistol round by far, no comparison, is .22 long rifle. For self defense, it completely depends on your needs for concealment. For outdoors the 10mm is the best by far unless you want to carry a desert eagle. Now, you said "PISTOL" round, so I can't tell you some of my favorites like the .45 Colt because it's a revolver round, not a pistol round. The Desert Eagle is chambered in .357, .41 I think, and .44 mags, but it's the exception.

[JohnKSa]

WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.I received my information from www.wikipedia.org.Here is what the Wikipedia article on the 10mm says about why the FBI dropped the 10mm.

"As agents began having difficulty handling full-power 10mm loads, the FBI submitted a requirement for a reduced-recoil loading. This later became known as the "10 Lite", or "10mm FBI" load. Pistol reliability problems increased with this lighter load and Smith and Wesson saw this as an invitation to create something new: a shortened version of the 10mm. This new round was called the .40 Smith and Wesson."

"the 10mm Auto cartridge's recoil was disliked by FBI agents issued pistols in this caliber."

It says NOTHING about it being dropped because it "it did not merely stop criminals who were shot, but usually killed them".

As far as the gun durability issue, the Wikipedia article makes several mentions of problems. However, it also points to the main source of those problems:

"Instead of creating a new design expressly for use with the cartridge, early pistols chambered for the high-pressure 10mm Auto were based on low-pressure .45 ACP designs and, therefore, some of these early firearms exhibited accelerated wear and tear, leading to reliability and general functionality problems. "

And thus my comment: "while 10mm chamber pressure is higher than the .45ACP, it's not so high that a well designed gun will be "strained" by it."

[EddieCoyle]

Best for WHAT? For squirrel hunting, the best pistol round by far, no comparison, is .22 long rifle.

A 10mm has WAY better stopping power on a squirrel. Even a really big one.

[GoBrush]

Whatever you shoot well!

Stopping power does not mean diddly if you cannot hit your target. There is also something to be said for getting back on target for follow up shots.

If you can hit your target and control recoil 45ACP is a very very fine round.

[GoBrush]

Kennyboy:

I am not trying to be a smart %$$ but do you know what ACP stands for?

[Taurus 66]

It has been said here numerous times, "There is no best pistol caliber."

It's a matter of personal preference and opinion. The .357 mag in 158 makes a fast, heavy, hard hitting load, suitable for both pistols and rifles.

I like the following:

.38 Sp 158 gr
.357 Mag 158 gr
.44 Sp 200 gr

[michakav]

I have to say .357. It is a hell of a round and has proven itself in one shot stop tests. As stated a few times though, shot placement is what it is about. I would rather have 5 shots with a .22 than one with a .357 or .45.

[Zen21Tao]

In my honest opinion, I would vote the 10mm auto. .357 magnum power in a large capacity automatic handgun package. Great for just about anything. It's not a .44 mag, but then again you really don't NEED that much gun.

+1 for the 10mm. High power with large capacity.

[Boom-stick]

.44mag.

I got a 1/3 off my .44 pistol when I bought it, I was given my .44mag dies by one friend whilst another gave a Lee reloading press and scales, I picked up my powder measure for £1 at a show.

So in my mind .44 mag rules, I shoot for less $$$ down my club with a .44 then other guys do with air rifles?:neener:

[355sigfan]

[
"the 10mm Auto cartridge's recoil was disliked by FBI agents issued pistols in this caliber."

It says NOTHING about it being dropped because it "it did not merely stop criminals who were shot, but usually killed them".

it."[/QUOTE]


It does not usually kill them anymore than any other handgun caliber. In general most people shot with pistols live (75%) thanks to modern medicine and fast EMS responses. The 10mm is nothing special in the stopping power department. If that were the only issue I would rather have a 45
Pat

[MCgunner]

A 10mm has WAY better stopping power on a squirrel. Even a really big one.

So does a .458 Win Mag...:D Besides, I don't think you can get RWS ammunition in 10mm.

Hmm, I've got a .22 barrel and a .30-30 barrel for my Contender. Think maybe I need to start using the .30-30 on them critters? I'd hate to lose a big trophy 'cause my .22 didn't have enough stopping power...:D

[OVERLORD]

I don't know if anyone has noticed but in the painting "The Last Supper" Jesus is concealing a SA Ultra Compact V-10. If its good enough for Jesus it's good enough for me. My vote go's to the GOD blessed .45. :D

[MCgunner]

I don't know if anyone has noticed but in the painting "The Last Supper" Jesus is concealing a SA Ultra Compact V-10. If its good enough for Jesus it's good enough for me. My vote go's to the GOD blessed .45. :D

That's only because at the time, that was the most modern thing they had. :neener:

[kennyboy]

My 12 year-old has updated Wikipedia (accurately I might add, but Wikipedia is not always accurate). If you get the right gun - in other words a gun designed for the 10mm (like a S&W 610, 1006, or 1076), you can consistently shoot ammo loaded so hot it that will flatten the primers and you'll be able to will the gun to your grandkids. So what if it puts more "stress" on a gun than .45? A .357 will put more stress on a gun than .38 SPL, but .357 guns are designed to take it. So are guns designed for 10 mm. Well, except the Bren Ten... I'm kidding. However, I truly believe that the Bren Ten's early problems helped to give the 10mm an underserved reputation as a gun wrecking caliber.

Since you're doing your research on Wikipedia rather than at the range I'll assume that you haven't fired a lot of 10mm. With current average factory loads or moderate handloads, the recoil is more than manageable, with impressive ballistics. With hot handloads or some of the somewhat-hard-to-find factory full-power ammo, it is an absolute tiger (but still manageable).

I don't mean to jump down your throat but you'll find us 10mm defenders to be a tenacious lot, especially when old incorrect sterotypes are thrown our way.
For the record, I've never shot a 10mm. I was just reporting what I had researced. I am in no way trying to install a bad reputation for the round. The round is very powerful and does what it is designed to do - kill.

[kennyboy]

WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.Here is what the Wikipedia article on the 10mm says about why the FBI dropped the 10mm.

"As agents began having difficulty handling full-power 10mm loads, the FBI submitted a requirement for a reduced-recoil loading. This later became known as the "10 Lite", or "10mm FBI" load. Pistol reliability problems increased with this lighter load and Smith and Wesson saw this as an invitation to create something new: a shortened version of the 10mm. This new round was called the .40 Smith and Wesson."

"the 10mm Auto cartridge's recoil was disliked by FBI agents issued pistols in this caliber."

It says NOTHING about it being dropped because it "it did not merely stop criminals who were shot, but usually killed them".

As far as the gun durability issue, the Wikipedia article makes several mentions of problems. However, it also points to the main source of those problems:

"Instead of creating a new design expressly for use with the cartridge, early pistols chambered for the high-pressure 10mm Auto were based on low-pressure .45 ACP designs and, therefore, some of these early firearms exhibited accelerated wear and tear, leading to reliability and general functionality problems. "

And thus my comment: "while 10mm chamber pressure is higher than the .45ACP, it's not so high that a well designed gun will be "strained" by it."
OK, OK. I misread or got mixed up somewhere. Stop ridiculing me about it (lol).....please.

[RFM]

Against humans. .45 ACP or .357 (125-185 grain bullet @ 1100-1500 fps)
Really you want a fast moving bullet to penetrate vital organs, but
not exit the body. I know this is a very general statement. There's a
reason we have so many different calibers - for different situations.

I've read somewhere that one of the most effective bullets against
human targets, is the 125 grain .357 magnum round.

Some kind of energy weapon designed to immediately disrupt the
central nervous system, like a phaser, would be ideal.

[HUMAN HUNTER]

ITS NOT THE SIZE OR POWER ITS THE PLACEMENT A PERFECTLY PLACED .22 CAL. WILL STOP ANY HUMAN OR ANIMAL IN NORTH AMERICA

[kennyboy]

ITS NOT THE SIZE OR POWER ITS THE PLACEMENT A PERFECTLY PLACED .22 CAL. WILL STOP ANY HUMAN OR ANIMAL IN NORTH AMERICA
Yeah, except if that human or animal is completely covered in Level III body armor (just kidding). I know what you are trying to say.

[Deer Hunter]

I can place .22 caliber bullets on a target just as easily as I can place a .45 ACP or .357, so why not have a bit more insurance invested in a larger powered bullet? My bet is still on the 10mm, it would eliminate the need for multiple gun platforms.