Hardest Kicking Mil-surp


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M.E.Eldridge
February 12, 2006, 04:57 PM
I was wondering what the hardest kicking military surplus rifles were. My M44 is stout and today I shot an Enfield No.4 Mk.2 rifle( I picked it up in very good condition with a bright bore for $129) and while shooting it from a bench I rested it to far on top of my shoulder bone and fired........owww. So what are your hardest kicking mil-surp rifles?

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MSGT9410
February 12, 2006, 04:59 PM
My M48 is nasty when it's fed that 196gr stuff from Mitchell's :D

jonnyc
February 12, 2006, 05:02 PM
A friend had some Czech 7.92 cabine. What a pain! We used to make the "new guy" shoot it, sort of like an initiation.

mustanger98
February 12, 2006, 05:07 PM
IMO/E, in my misadventures with 8mm Mauser I've found the Turkish stuff is nasty for recoil. However, I've also observed that the K98k kicks harder with that load than the VZ-24 does. I found I like the 153gr Romanian loading better as far as recoil. But most everything kicks harder from the bench than it will from standing.

IMO/E, Enfields and .303 British don't kick bad at all. Unless maybe it wasn't shouldered right, and then just about anything's liable to hurt.

MSGT9410
February 12, 2006, 05:08 PM
But most everything kicks harder from the bench than it will from standing.


I'll second that :uhoh:

M.E.Eldridge
February 12, 2006, 06:09 PM
IMO/E, in my misadventures with 8mm Mauser I've found the Turkish stuff is nasty for recoil. However, I've also observed that the K98k kicks harder with that load than the VZ-24 does. I found I like the 153gr Romanian loading better as far as recoil. But most everything kicks harder from the bench than it will from standing.

IMO/E, Enfields and .303 British don't kick bad at all. Unless maybe it wasn't shouldered right, and then just about anything's liable to hurt.

Yah, I was leaning into it weird and the butt trap area was resting on the bone. I thought the cartridge wouldn't hurt too bad so I also didn't have it in tight.Last time I do that.

For anyone who would know, what is the kick of Springfield rifles in comparison to a Mosin or Mauser? Some people tell me the recoil is nearly uncontrollable.:uhoh:

longhorngunman
February 12, 2006, 06:41 PM
03, Nah. It's about like any other 30-06 bolt gun, and the Garand feels about like shooting my M4. The little Russian carbines are monsters with the right ammo. Some of the Mausers, especially witht the hot Turkish or Yugo ammo are very uncomfortable after 50rds. Don't own one yet but have heard the little Steyr-Mannlicher carbines are stout hitters.

mordechaianiliewicz
February 12, 2006, 06:49 PM
I got an M-38 that is murderous with the right kind of milsurp ammo. But I've noticed the full sized rifles regardless of manufacturer and model aren't too bad. M-38 is the only carbine I've tried though that is milsurp, and a bolt gun

EVIL5LITER
February 12, 2006, 06:55 PM
I've got a sizable collection of milsurps, and I found my K31 to be the monster of the group. Go figure.

BillinNH
February 12, 2006, 07:55 PM
Mosin Nagant model 38 with 174 grain milsurp heavy ball is very assertive. And loud. And has a great fireball.

With handloads you can make it much more manageable. The milsurp ammo is deigned for a 29" barrel whereas the model 38 is only 20". It needs faster powder.

Bill

GILROY
February 12, 2006, 08:08 PM
After shooting the big cal. milsurps with the steel "butt pads", it is obvious to me that they don't make men like they used to. Some of those WWI battles would last for days. I am 6'5" and 250 lbs, but after a few rounds, IT HURTS :o

f4t9r
February 12, 2006, 08:27 PM
I hate guns that kick hard , must be the old age and bad shoulder

Cosmoline
February 12, 2006, 08:28 PM
No question about it. The worst recoiling is the M-95 Hungarian straight-pull carbine shooting those unspeakable WWII surplus loads. Check these readings out:

http://members.nuvox.net/~on.melchar/8x56r/surp.html

That's THREE THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED foot pounds of force out of a wee five pound carbine!

I can shoot any sort of Mosin or Mauser carbine without too much trouble. But I ached for days after shooting a few clips of that 8x56R surpllus out of my old M-95. It would make a great bear defense rifle if you could get better bullets for it.

3rdpig
February 12, 2006, 08:35 PM
Of the half dozen or so that I've got the 98K is the worst and the K31 is the least, at least that's how it feels to me. There's not much differencd between the 98K, the O3A3 and the 91/30, but the 98K just seems to beat me up the most.

Every time I shoot one of them I think of those men in WWI and WWII laying down flat and firing those rifles with the butt against the top of their shoulders, day after day. I guess the conditions were so terrible, and death always so close, that a beat up shoulder would be a minor problem.

Huntzman
February 12, 2006, 08:38 PM
After shooting the big cal. milsurps with the steel "butt pads", it is obvious to me that they don't make men like they used to. Some of those WWI battles would last for days. I am 6'5" and 250 lbs, but after a few rounds, IT HURTS :o


I don't believe we are less manly then those old WWI vet's, it's just that they had the fear of dying to offset the pain in the shoulder. :what:

GILROY
February 12, 2006, 08:48 PM
True...True

oneshooter
February 12, 2006, 08:51 PM
I had a Martini carbine with a 18" barrel in 577/450 . Called it "Bruiser" because it left it's mark on you. Standard load of 85gr 2fg with a cast 500gr rn.:evil:

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

Cosmoline
February 12, 2006, 09:01 PM
Those big Martini/Henry rifles are notorious bruisers.

texasguy
February 12, 2006, 09:26 PM
But most everything kicks harder from the bench than it will from standing.

even my .30-30 hurts on the bench...

M.E.Eldridge
February 12, 2006, 09:38 PM
Those big Martini/Henry rifles are notorious bruisers.

For a while I was looking for one of those, but then I couldn't find any ammo.

If we count repros of old rifles, a Brown Bess musket that I had the chance to borrow from a re-enactor friend and fire a few times was the worst I've had.

How about 7.5 French, anyone shot a MAS 36. I found one at a gunshow the other day for $156 in near-mint condition(never shot, dropped once). I would have bought it, but I know of no sources for the 7.5 French ammo.

M.E.Eldridge
February 12, 2006, 09:41 PM
No question about it. The worst recoiling is the M-95 Hungarian straight-pull carbine shooting those unspeakable WWII surplus loads. Check these readings out:

http://members.nuvox.net/~on.melchar/8x56r/surp.html

That's THREE THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED foot pounds of force out of a wee five pound carbine!

I can shoot any sort of Mosin or Mauser carbine without too much trouble. But I ached for days after shooting a few clips of that 8x56R surpllus out of my old M-95. It would make a great bear defense rifle if you could get better bullets for it.

Imagine laying down and firing it with the butt resting on the top of your shoulder. Ow. Are those M-95's still available and if so are their any weaker cartridges for it?

Cosmoline
February 12, 2006, 10:44 PM
The M-95 carbines are getting more expensive but are still pretty easy to find. I've seen a few locally for $200 or so. The long rifle versions are much more difficult to get ahold of. Ammo has been the huge problem, since the cartridge is very difficult to make yourself and the 8mm bullets are quite a bit wider than the 8mm's used in 8x57JS or 8mm Rem Mag. I've seen more reloading components on the market over the past two years though.

Cosmoline
February 12, 2006, 10:50 PM
How about 7.5 French, anyone shot a MAS 36. I found one at a gunshow the other day for $156 in near-mint condition(never shot, dropped once). I would have bought it, but I know of no sources for the 7.5 French ammo.

7.5 MAS is pretty mild, a notch less than .308. There's at least one factory making 7.5. I forget the name but it has the little legion etranger guy on the cover. The components are fairly easy to get ahold of at Grafs.

Clean97GTI
February 12, 2006, 11:05 PM
I've found the heavy ball stuff for Mosin-Nagants is worse than the more modern Czech light ball. That being said, I still think my 03A3 kicks harder than my M44 even with heavy ball. The thing that makes that M44 worse is the buttplate. Whoever designed that thing...should be shot. ;)

longhorngunman
February 12, 2006, 11:07 PM
Wow! 3200ftlbs. Yep that settles it, I have to get one of those little buggers:D . And I've seen where a source has recently come available and they have that Nazi 8*56 in stock too. Also, Hornady I believe sells new non-corrosive ammo for it.

english kanigit
February 12, 2006, 11:18 PM
I was shooting my Finnish Mosin and forgot that I had a stainless steel pen cliped to the collar of my t-shirt. The buttplate happened to be resting on that pen and that pen happened to be resting on my collar bone.





Note to self, take the $%#ing pen out before shooting rifles.... :cuss:

cracked butt
February 13, 2006, 01:12 AM
The steyr 95 carbine is the hardest kicker I've experienced.

rangerruck
February 13, 2006, 04:18 AM
enfield jungle carbine, is second the first is mosin tanker carbine, using 200 or 205 grn bimetal rounds, even with the recoil pad, very ouchy!

JimC
February 13, 2006, 06:21 AM
It's been a long time but the one rifle that sticks in my mind as the hardest recoiling was a cherry 98K that I owned (I now wish I still had it) with some nasty 190 gr. German surplus ammo.

foghornl
February 13, 2006, 11:48 AM
With the right {or wrong!} ammo, my M-44 Mosin-Nagant is a fairly serious thumper on both ends....:evil:

50 Shooter
February 13, 2006, 11:57 AM
Hmmm, 650 gr. bullet, 240 grs of powder, .50 BMG upper on a AR lower... Seeing owner get scoped eyed... OUCH!!! Surplus .50 BMG really socks it to ya if you're not paying attention.;)

hksw
February 13, 2006, 12:58 PM
My M44 is stout and today I shot an Enfield No.4 Mk.2 rifle( I picked it up in very good condition with a bright bore for $129) and while shooting it from a bench I rested it to far on top of my shoulder bone and fired........owww. So what are your hardest kicking mil-surp rifles?

Found the same thing. When I first zeroed in my Enfield 2A off the bench (I had to bend forward more than usual as that particular bench was lower normal), it was quite painful. When I decided to shoot off-hand, it was the total opposite. Very easy to shoot and low felt recoil. Moral of the story? use the right height bench when shooting centerfire.

yesterdaysyouth
February 13, 2006, 05:26 PM
of the milsurps i've fired, i'd say the 06' chamber mauser, with m2 ball would be the worst...

having only handled the m95 carbine i'd bet that'll ruin your day...:what:

Ash
February 13, 2006, 09:48 PM
Boyes anti-tank rifle, a milsurp, kicks pretty fierce.

Ash

Niner
February 13, 2006, 10:37 PM
The Steyr Mannlicher M95 carbine in 8x56r will put a serious tap on your shoulder.

swingset
February 13, 2006, 11:53 PM
13mm Anti-tank Mauser kicked me harder than anything I've ever felt, gun wise. Unfricking believably brutal.

The hardest hitting carbine/rifle I've shot (and I've shot hundreds of milsurps) was a Berthier Carbine. Very very stout.

Beemerguy53
February 14, 2006, 12:03 AM
My Enfield Jungle Carbine kicks like a mule. I think it's the combination of that cone-shaped flash suppressor and that little hard rubber butt plate.

bowfin
February 14, 2006, 11:30 AM
Originally Posted by M.E.Eldridge

"How about 7.5 French, anyone shot a MAS 36. I found one at a gunshow the other day for $156 in near-mint condition(never shot, dropped once). I would have bought it, but I know of no sources for the 7.5 French ammo."

Graf & Sons carries it, new manufactured, boxer primed, reloadable.

bowfin
February 14, 2006, 11:32 AM
I nominate the Springfield Trapdoor Carbine in .45-70.

Mikee Loxxer
February 14, 2006, 01:29 PM
They really don't kick more than any other 30 caliber milsurp using standard loads. But then again I haven't run into milsurps I consider to kick that hard anyway. I find them all quite manageable. The most severe recoil I have experienced came from a Marlin lever action guide gun chambered in 45-70 loaded with 550 grain bullets. They were reloads that were at higher pressures than factory ammo to boot.

Farnham
February 14, 2006, 08:28 PM
Another vote for the 8mm Mauser. Out of my little light Yugo 24/47, I can't take more than 20 rounds or so. Flat steel buttplate, light rifle, 198gr bullet. I'm not a recoil junky, so it's just not that much fun.

My K-31 is my favorite milsurp; I don't know why, but it seems to hit way softer than any MN or Mauser.

S/F

Farnham

5ptdeerhunter
February 14, 2006, 09:11 PM
I agree with everyone that said the M-95, that thing is painful. I had to put a rubber recoil pad on it. When I shoot from a bench I can handle just about any recoil. My M-44, my 30-06s, any rifles I have, but when it comes to that M-95 it is just ouch.

M.E.Eldridge
February 14, 2006, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by M.E.Eldridge

"How about 7.5 French, anyone shot a MAS 36. I found one at a gunshow the other day for $156 in near-mint condition(never shot, dropped once). I would have bought it, but I know of no sources for the 7.5 French ammo."

Graf & Sons carries it, new manufactured, boxer primed, reloadable.

Hmmmm.....at the next gun show if these fellas still have the MAS I'll pick it up. It came with a bayonet and sling and was in near-mint condition and they wanted $159 for it. Is this a good price?

KriegHund
February 14, 2006, 09:18 PM
I dunno, my turk mauser uses turk ammo 9supposedly the hottest loades tuff out there) and it kicks pretty bad, but the kick is real sharp. Thin metal buttplate here too.

Although ive never had a bruised shoulder, even after firing 70 or so rounds in one sitting.

M.E.Eldridge
February 14, 2006, 09:20 PM
13mm Anti-tank Mauser kicked me harder than anything I've ever felt, gun wise. Unfricking believably brutal.

The hardest hitting carbine/rifle I've shot (and I've shot hundreds of milsurps) was a Berthier Carbine. Very very stout.

Berthier, isn't that one of those ugly French rifles from the First World War? Perhaps the one that was originally designed to fire a three round magazine? I can't quite remember; the only French guns I have an interest in are the Lebel and the MAS 36.

KriegHund
February 14, 2006, 09:25 PM
It came with a bayonet and sling and was in near-mint condition and they wanted $159 for it. Is this a good price?

159$ is a good price for just about any rifle that fires safely.

dm1333
February 14, 2006, 10:54 PM
Garand = pussy cat. The only problem was that I'm a lefty and the en bloc clips kept landing on my head for some reason. The owner found it very amusing.

Mauser K98 - not bad but it was light handloads

No.4 Mk1 Enfield - another pussy cat even with 174 grain loads

M38 - 147 gr loads, not bad at all

M38 - I have some 174 or 180 grain loads(little fuzzy on what they are without checking) that will leave a bruise, sound like sticks of dynamite, shoot an impressive fireball and will break large chunks of rock off the sides of the gravel pit

Matthew748
February 15, 2006, 06:25 AM
I would have to say my 91/30 Nagant is the hardest kicking surplus rifle I have. I have a case of ammo (Czech, I think) loaded with 180gr bullets that I usually tap into when I want to shoot.

Darkside852003
February 15, 2006, 10:59 AM
My M44 hurt more than my K31.

RamblerReb
March 7, 2006, 08:33 PM
The title for my harderst kicker is between my M39 Finn and my 1916 Guardia Civil 7.62. My M27 Finn, No 4 Mk 1/2, No 4 Mk I, 1921 Lithgow, and 1913 RSAF Enfield are pussycats by comparison. I have to admit, I went down to Wally World after my first session with the M39 and got a pushy pad. I don't like recoil and I don't want a flinch. I can't seem to hit anything when I cringe and pull my cheek off the stock just before firing, as crazy as I know that sounds. I'd rather be called names and have nice, tight groups than be known as a super-duper he-man who can't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle.

Beetle Bailey
March 7, 2006, 10:06 PM
Pain don't hurt! ;)

But the only milsurp I own that actually bruised my shoulder is my M48 Yugo mauser when I was shooting the Turk surplus 8mm. I shot an M44 Mosin Nagant and decided it wasn't for me.

BTW, the mildest milsurp bolt-action rifles I own are my Enfields (No. 1 MkIII, No. 4 MkI, No. 4 MkII) so I guess the ergos really fit me.

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