7mm-08


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coonhunter
February 13, 2006, 02:13 AM
I have been looking for a good all around hunting rifle for the USA I have recently had shoulder surgery so recoil is a problem I am looking at the 7mm-08 round it seems to be a good all around cartridge any comments

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Husker1911
February 13, 2006, 02:41 AM
I concur. Sadly, the 7MM-08 is often neglected in the USA. It doesn't carry the word "magnum" in its caliber designation, thus, it's not worthy. Heh!

Nematocyst
February 13, 2006, 03:21 AM
Coonhunter, welcome to THR.

Newbies by rnds. I'll take a Pale Moon wheat ale, please, and a box of 124 gr 9mm Golden Sabers.

But to your 7mm08 question...

I've just been through a couple of months of evaluating rifle calibers for my upcoming deer rifle in bolt action.

I considered .243, 7mm08, .270, .308 & .30-06.

Like you (but for different reasons), I'm not interested in recoil, but wanted to be able to drop a deer (any species of deer) at 200 yds, and even be capable of elk at reasonable ranges should the need arise (as in TEOTWAWKI and I'm hungry).

I read many THR threads, plus reviews & opinions off of THR (including those of the esteemed Chuck Hawks (http://www.chuckhawks.com/choosing_inclement_deer_rifle.htm)).

I looked at ballastics pages (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/) until I was blue in the face.

I finally decided on 7mm08.

It's got relatively low recoil, but has a very flat trajectory (suprisingly flatter than .30-06 at long ranges in Remingtom ammo).

It'll drop deer, sheep, goats & antelope, and many use it for elk.

Is it big enough for caribou & bear? No. But I don't plan to go after those.

Does it have the bullet size range of .270, .308 & .30-06 in factory loads? No, but to me, that's good thing. I want a couple of good bullet sizes (120 & 140) that will do what I want. I'll adapt to them. Less work finding the right one.

Others will scoff at my decision. That's OK.

I've even pretty much narrowed down my choice of rifles. (Yes, I know, you didn't ask for rifle recommendations.)

In order of priority for me (depending in part on how much money I can accumulate by April):

1) Remington 700 Mountain LSS
2) Ruger M77 All weather
3) Tikka T3 Lite Stainless
4) Savage 16FHSS

I have some minor concerns about the thin barrel of the Remington, and am investigating the Ruger as a potential alternative. Still haven't entirely ruled out the Savage and Tikka, but they're on the back burner now.

But one thing I'm sure of:

7mm08.

Nem

Sulaco
February 13, 2006, 12:14 PM
7mm-08 is a good caliber and will kill deer easily. I like it.

Nem, be careful with the Rugers. They are nice but accuracy isn't as good as say the Tikka when comparing overall numbers.

Pilot
February 13, 2006, 12:41 PM
Does it have the bullet size range of .270, .308 & .30-06 in factory loads? No, but to me, that's good thing. I want a couple of good bullet sizes (120 & 140) that will do what I want. I'll adapt to them. Less work finding the right one.



First, great write up Nem. I agreed with all of it except the above. While you may not find as many factory loads as .270, .308 and .30-06, if you reload there is a HUGE selection of 7MM bullets and bullet weights. I reload and the 7MM-08 was a no brainer for me.

atblis
February 13, 2006, 12:47 PM
There are plenty of light recoiling rifle cartridges
7mm 08
260 Rem.
243
257 Roberts
6.5x55 (In factory trim it is really light recoiling. Later you can handload hotter)

243 would be the easiest to find ammo for.

7mm has a good selection of bullets.

wanderinwalker
February 13, 2006, 01:05 PM
I personally would argue that the 7mm-08 is a no-brainer one-gun for a person who doesn't want to put up with the recoil of a bigger gun. IMO it is adequate for black bear and caribou, elk if needed, whitetail deer, pronghorn, mule deer and a whole raft of critters. I don't doubt that the 7-08 would also put down a moose if the need arose. It's a good choice, doubly so for a reloader.

Me? I picked the .260 Remington, being a fan of 6.5mm cartridges. Neither does anything the other won't, IMO. If one really needs more bullet weight and knockdown than a 7mm, you should probably be looking at the .338 and larger rounds instead of the .30s. Just my view though, YMMV.

Nematocyst
February 13, 2006, 02:57 PM
Sulaco, thanks for the heads up on Ruger. I hear you. I won't hijack Coonhunter's thread with a discussion about that issue (and several others), but may start another thread to do so.

Pilot, thanks much for mentioning the reloading issue. I meant to include that point in my previous post, but spaced it.

Indeed, the reloading issue for me is one of several factors that clinched 7mm08 for my rifle. There is a very nice range of bullet sizes - from varmint rnds on up to about 150 gr - available for it for reloaders.

(I've even started a bit of research about reloading (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=180382). It'll be a while before I have the time and money to get into it - I've got to get the rifle and explore factory loads with it, first - but it's nice to know the option exists.)

Nice thread, you got yourself here, Coonhunter. I'm enjoying reading so much positive about 7mm08. I'm betting Schleprok62 will probably join us at some point with more positive to add. ;)

Nem

Brian Williams
February 13, 2006, 05:03 PM
My only bolt action rifle is a Win Compact Classic in 7mm-08. It is a great caliber in a great gun. I am getting right around MOA with my reloads on the bench and I am going to get off the bench and start shooting it like I should sitting, kneeling and offhand. It has the largest selection of bullets for handloaders and will easily work from Varmints to large deer. Placement for larger game requires good hunting skills.

Meplat
February 14, 2006, 07:23 AM
7mm-08 is a good caliber and will kill deer easily. I like it.

Nem, be careful with the Rugers. They are nice but accuracy isn't as good as say the Tikka when comparing overall numbers.

Got ahold of a Ruger M77 SS in .30-06 with one of the old "skeletonized" stocks for a song because a guy I worked with just couldn't get anything better than "patterns" with it. I am known to love a challenge, so he asked me if I wanted it. At the price he named, I didn't figure I could go wrong and bought it. Took it home, checked all the usual suspects (guard screw torque, scope screws, etc., etc. Took it to the range with factory ammo and wound up with 8" "groups". Not my happiest day. Went back home, thinking anything this far off had to be a scope problem. Rifle was NRA 98%+ NIB, crown in excellent condition. All I could figure was the scope. Swapped it out for a scope I knew to be sound, went back, same results. Once again, came home, got to thinking about my No.1 Tropical and it's forend hanger set screw alteration, pulled the stock. After a bit of study, could see a fly in the ointment. The injection molded stock had a series of "ladder rungs" instead of an actual barrel channel that were flat across. I knew full well there was NO WAY that this set up was exerting the same amont of pressure along the length of the barrel uniformly from an injection mold, and doubt that it could even be machined to do so in it's stock configuration. Got the dremel tool out, dished out each rung in the ladder to a bit over barrel dimensions at that particular point, thus free-floating the barrel. Cobbled up a load of cartridges using CCI primers, IMR powder and Hornaday bullets, put the old scope back on, groups had shrunk to 2". Made a few more trips, settled on a cartridge comprised of CCI 200 primers, IMR 4064, and Sierra 150 grain bullets. Eureka!

Told the fellow I had it shooting now, he wanted to see it so he could believe it. When he saw five holes at 100 yards that could be covered with the end of a thumb, he offered a hundred buck profit on the rifle. Figured I'd had my fun with it, had another '06, and sold it back to him. In retrospect, prolly should have kept that one. With it's scalloped out stock and light weight, I really expected it to belt me good. Not so. Was quite pleasant to shoot. Not sure if the newer model synthetic stocked Ruger's sport the same "ladder rung" barrel channel or not...would appreciate anyone who could update me on that score. If so, I'd say that like the No. 1, most can be made so shoot quite well.

Errr...in keeping with the topic of the 7mm-08, I love the one I bought for my kids. Shoots like a little dream, has the inexpensive accuracy of a Savage, and is plenty for any deer or hog that might roam.

Black Dragon
February 14, 2006, 08:48 AM
Sounds like a nice round for low recoil and range of bullets weights but what
about range?

Would this be a good rifle/round for long distance varmit shooting (400 to
600 yards)?

I love my 308 and I play with it to about 600 yards. I also love my 300 Wby
mag but after 20 rounds my shoulder is starting to get sore. My father-in-
law says that his AR15 with a match barrel and all neat little things is the
best round for varmit but I would like something with a little more power and the ability to take larger animals (white tail, mule deer, ect) if I want.

Art Eatman
February 14, 2006, 10:15 AM
I've killed a fair number of deer with the .243 and th '06. My old legs are sorta giving out (well, done gave out) and so I figured a lighter rifle might be a help. So, I got a 700 Titanium in 7mm08.

6.5 pounds with scope, sling and ammo. The book says a 140-grain bullet at 2,800 or 2,900. Okay, that's not much under a .270 or '06; for all pracitcal purposes, same-o same-o.

I have arthritis in my shoulders. Coffee and Aleve for breakfast. But the recoil of that rifle, from a benchrest, is not at all bothersome. I'm easy getting one MOA with the same point of impact from both handloads and factory.

The only thing I've killed was a heavy-bodied feral dog at about 50 yards. DRT, good exit wound.

Art

Meplat
February 14, 2006, 10:34 AM
Sounds like a nice round for low recoil and range of bullets weights but what
about range?

Would this be a good rifle/round for long distance varmit shooting (400 to
600 yards)?

I love my 308 and I play with it to about 600 yards. I also love my 300 Wby
mag but after 20 rounds my shoulder is starting to get sore. My father-in-
law says that his AR15 with a match barrel and all neat little things is the
best round for varmit but I would like something with a little more power and the ability to take larger animals (white tail, mule deer, ect) if I want.

At 600 yards, using a Speer 130 gr. bullet in the .308, bullet drop would be 88", assuming a max load and a muzzle velocity of 3000 fps, with bullet drift of 55 1/2" in a 10 mph crosswind. (Using a 250 yard zero).

At the same 600 yards, the 7mm-08 with a Speer 130 gr. bullet at a max load developing 2800 fps would drop 76" (almost 14% less), and would drift 35" (37% less) in a 10 mph cross wind. (Once again, using a 250 yard zero)

These calculations were made using Point Blank Computer Reloading and Ballistic Software.

The 7mm's much higher ballistic coefficient makes a LARGE difference in downrange performance. Looks better all the time.

wanderinwalker
February 14, 2006, 11:03 AM
I think for shooting varmints the 7mm is a bit on the heavy side, though a 120gr slug should do the job. Then again, I think my 6.5mm would be a bit excessive, even though an 87-100gr bullet would do the job well.

The .260 is more popular with target shooters in these parts, though I hear the 6mms are making inroads with competitors in other parts of the country. The 7-08 would make a fine target round also, IMO, though using the long, heavy, high-BC bullets favored for long range paper shooting it does sacrifice some bullet speed.

Schleprok62
February 14, 2006, 11:32 AM
I have searched high and low on the internet to find what amounts to be the most versitile cartridge. There are quite a few that can be listed in this distinction, but none are quite as versitile as the 7mm-08, and it seems to have something to offer to all type of shooters.

Great for target (long and short range)
Great for hunting
Great for varmints, (using a 100 - 120 gr wouldn't be overkill with a light load), Fairly inexpensive to reload, wise variety of choices to the home reloader (7 pages of them on MidwayUSA), plenty of powder options also.
Light - intermediate recoil (depending on physics: both the rifle and the shooter) for those of us who don't care for excessive recoil.
Young adults (14 -18 year olds) can handle it.
Able to leap tall buildings in a single err... oops...
Big enough to take an Elk, small enough to rid the ranch of Prairie dogs.
In apples to apples comparisons (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=PRA7M08RB*PRA270WA*PRA3006A), it performs on par with some of the mightier cartridges out ther, .270, 30-06, .308, etc... and in some cases, beats them (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R7M081*R308W1*R280R1).

It's hard to find a reason to NOT pick the 7mm-08. I'm getting one... but I am still going after that long drooled over .280... :D

Thank you... you may now begin to rip all this apart... ;) :cool: :neener: :evil:

jughead
February 14, 2006, 01:10 PM
I agree the 7/08 is great. I to had shoulder problems and even had to get the 7-08 magnaported. Its a great accurate caliber. I've shot everything from fox to black bear with mine. I have a mod. 7 rem., ruger mod.77 compact and the one I had ported is a t/c encore. I'm currently using 120gr. sierra's for whitetails, I think I would go with a little heavier bullet if I were hunting bears again.:)

JJE
February 14, 2006, 04:08 PM
Interesting. I had just about decided on .308 for my first bolt-action, but the lighter recoil and similar ballistics of the 7mm-08 have got my attention. I was leaning toward a Tikka T3, but wouldn't want the Lite model (just over 6 lbs) in .308, but in 7mm-08, the recoil should still be on the low end even for a rifle that light.

Nematocyst
February 14, 2006, 04:29 PM
Interesting. I had just about decided on .308 for my first bolt-action, but the lighter recoil and similar ballistics of the 7mm-08 have got my attention. I was leaning toward a Tikka T3, but wouldn't want the Lite model (just over 6 lbs) in .308, but in 7mm-08, the recoil should still be on the low end even for a rifle that light. JJE, you and I are on the same page about that issue.

I was considering something in .30 caliber, either .308 or .30-06. (Before that, I was considering .270, which is based on the .30-06 cartridge as the 7mm08 is based on .308.)

But after much reading, many (annoying :rolleyes: ) questions, particularly in this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=178898), and after a key bit of info from our friend Schleprok (see above; do check out his suggested comparisons), I fell comfortably into the 7mm08 fold.

Now, I have NO doubt that 7mm08 the caliber for me.

(Of course, I'm still trying to make a firm decision about which rifle, but that's a different thread...)

Nem

ECVMatt
February 14, 2006, 07:12 PM
I am still building experience with it, but so far I love it. I reload and love the high BC's you get with the bullets. Recoil doesn't seem to be that bad and so far it has been very accurate.

I love the Ruger M77 and have had great luck with them. All of mine shoot groups that can be covered with nickle.

My current 7-08 is a nice Rem 700 BDL.

I bet you will like it if you give it a try,

Matt

Bigfoot
February 18, 2006, 12:11 AM
For even lighter recoil try the 120 gr Ballistic Tip. I know a local hunter and gunwriter who swears by it, even uses it for elk when he's on mixed hunts and he still gets exits. He shoots them from a 7-08 and a 280AI. Others report that they hold up at 7mm mag velocities. Pretty odd behavior for a BT, turns out Nosler made this jacket thicker than most 140s so they hold together well. Try it.

Nematocyst
February 18, 2006, 02:25 AM
Pretty odd behavior for a BT, turns out Nosler made this jacket thicker than most 140s so they hold together well. Try it.Interesting tip. Thanks.

Nem

M.E.Eldridge
February 18, 2006, 11:07 AM
I was looking at the Savage Package rifles that come with the rifle,sling,and scope in 30-06, but now I'm thinking about the 7mm-08.

I usually only own one rifle in a given caliber and I plan on owning a M1917 Enfield in 30-06. My only exception to this rule is the 7.62x54R in the surplus Mosins. I have a 91/30 and an M44 now and hope to soon get a Finnish M39.

But I digress, and I suppose the point of this post is a question. Out to 200-300 yards how well will the 7mm-08 do compared to the 30-06? I'm interested in bullet drop,speed, energy etc.

And what critters would a 7mm-08 take? Would I be able to easily kill the following with a well placed shot to the vitals using this caliber: black bear, mule deer, pronghorn, whitetailed deer, caribou,elk,coyotes,bobcats,mountain lions, lynx, groundhog(prairedog etc.), mountain goats of varying species, and hogs?

Schleprok62
February 18, 2006, 11:40 AM
M.E.:

In apples to apples comparisons, click here (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=PRA7M08RB*PRA3006A). The 7-08 is very comparable to the '06 out to the distances you mention. It probably recoils less, and reloading choices expand the possibilities... Good for everything from varmint sized critters to Elk. A friend of mine uses Barnes Triple Shocks exclusively. He swears by them...

duvalhunter
February 18, 2006, 12:29 PM
Interesting. I had just about decided on .308 for my first bolt-action, but the lighter recoil and similar ballistics of the 7mm-08 have got my attention. I was leaning toward a Tikka T3, but wouldn't want the Lite model (just over 6 lbs) in .308, but in 7mm-08, the recoil should still be on the low end even for a rifle that light.


I own a Tikka T3 in the Lite model and in 7mm-08 and it is very nice to carry around the accuracy is amazing from right out of the box, and your right about the recoil not being that bad, even though it can still cause a sore shoulder at the gun range.

duvalhunter

M.E.Eldridge
February 18, 2006, 05:39 PM
M.E.:

In apples to apples comparisons, click here (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=PRA7M08RB*PRA3006A). The 7-08 is very comparable to the '06 out to the distances you mention. It probably recoils less, and reloading choices expand the possibilities... Good for everything from varmint sized critters to Elk. A friend of mine uses Barnes Triple Shocks exclusively. He swears by them...

Wow,that info looks qiute impressive,thanks. I think the 7mm-08 will be my next rifle caliber.

Legionnaire
February 18, 2006, 09:23 PM
7mm-08 is a great round from all I've seen and heard. Don't have one, though. Have a couple of .308s in the safe, and a couple of .243s. I believe the 7mm-08 shares the same case as these two, and falls between them. While it is a great cartridge, I think I'd be just as happy with the .243 for any game the 7mm-08 is capable of.

I think the 7mm-08 would be a fine all around cartridge. But if one is building a moderate battery of three centerfire rifles, mine would be .223, .243, and .308.

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