Turkish anti-American war movie -- w/American actors


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AZRickD
February 13, 2006, 11:46 PM
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/13/news/journal.php

ISTANBUL The crowd cheered, clapped and whistled as the Turkish agent plunged the knife into the chest of the enemy commander.

"Valley of the Wolves - Iraq," which opened last week in movie theaters in Turkey, Austria and Germany, is a Rambo-like action story involving, in this case, Turkish gunmen who seek revenge against a tyrannical occupying army.

But in this version, the most expensive movie ever made in Turkey, the enemy is no oppressive third-world dictatorship. The commander's name is "Sam" - as in Uncle - and the opposing forces are Americans, who are being punished for offenses against Turkish as well as Iraqi pride and honor.
Sam William Marshall, played by Billy Zane, is portrayed as a sociopath, killing people without a second thought and claiming that he is doing God's will, a thinly veiled reference to statements by President George W. Bush about America's "crusade" for democracy in Iraq and the Middle East.

Indeed, while fictional, some of the movie is based on real events. The opening sequence portrays an incident that made headlines in 2003, when a group of Turkish special forces soldiers in Iraq was taken into custody by American marines. The Turks, mistaken for insurgents, were handcuffed and held with hoods over their heads. The incident angered many Turks.

Other scenes show ruthless marines killing Iraqis and soldiers mistreating inmates at Abu Ghraib prison. A Jewish-American doctor, played by Gary Busey, is shown as shipping inmates' organs to New York, London and Israel. All these, according to the screenwriter, Bahadir Ozdener, were inspired by real events.

Zane said he was not bothered by the movie's anti-American tone, adding that the horrors of war should be exposed. "I acted in this movie because I'm a pacifist," he said in a televised interview. "I'm against all kinds of war."

Whatever its artistic merits, the movie, which has already broken Turkish box office records, has highlighted a growing discrepancy in how America is seen in Turkey.

Officially, the two governments have been enjoying much-improved relations after a low point in 2003, when Turkey refused to allow American troops to cross the country to invade Iraq. On the street, however, public opinion of America has been steadily declining since the invasion of Iraq, the revelations about the abuse at Abu Ghraib and the suspected transferring of Al Qaeda suspects to foreign countries to be tortured in secret prisons.

Yet since the invasion, Turkey has provided logistical support to American troops in Iraq from Incirlik Air Base and has contributed military personnel to the American-led mission in Afghanistan.

Washington has reciprocated by vocally supporting Turkey's bid for membership in the European Union and efforts to resolve the Cyprus conflict.

The issue becomes complicated, however, when it comes to the war on terror. Outwardly, the two countries are committed partners in fighting terrorism of all kinds.

But Turkey has been fighting with Kurdish separatists seeking independence since the 1980s.

Since the invasion of Iraq, the U.S. military has been reluctant to act against the Kurdish Workers Party and has allowed it to operate in northern Iraq, which has distressed many in Turkey. Essentially, Washington tolerates a de facto Kurdish state in northern Iraq.

"People think that the U.S. supports an independent Kurdish state in northern Iraq and therefore threatens the unity of Turkish land," said Nilufer Narli, a sociology professor at Bahcesehir University in Istanbul.

Popular opinion of the United States and its allies, including Israel, seems to be steadily declining. Anti-American novels, including one that portrayed a war between the United States and Turkey, have been selling briskly; Hitler's "Mein Kampf" became a best seller last year.

Narli believes that the perceived U.S. support for the Kurds is at the heart of this decline.

Despite its popularity, however, "Valley of the Wolves - Iraq" neither triggered widespread anti-American violence in the country nor urged people to take to the streets to protest the war in Iraq.

"It doesn't show anything that we did not already know," said Fahri Kaya, a 22-year-old security guard. "It was more like a group therapy that gave people a chance to let go of their negative feelings against what's been happening in Iraq as they shouted, clapped and cried."

The U.S. ambassador to Turkey, Robert Wilson, in a televised interview on NTV last week, acknowledged that it was only a movie made for entertainment, but he said he still was not pleased with the way America was portrayed. He highlighted the good relations that the two countries have shared.

Egemen Bagis, the former head of the Turkish American Businessmen's Association, agreed.

"Our alliance with the U.S. has very strong roots," he said. "A movie or a book just cannot destroy it."

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Cosmoline
February 14, 2006, 12:13 AM
when a group of Turkish special forces soldiers in Iraq was taken into custody by American marines. The Turks, mistaken for insurgents, were handcuffed and held with hoods over their heads. The incident angered many Turks.

TROOPS WHO HAD NO RIGHT TO BE IN IRAQ, I might add. Troops who were almost certainly sent in to foment rebelion and insurgency in northern Iraq. We would have been in our rights to kill them all on the spot. The Turks have zero room to point fingers. How soon they forget that just a few generations ago they ruled Iraq along with most Arab nations with a brutality we've rarely matched in our worst hours.

Sindawe
February 14, 2006, 12:20 AM
Hmmmm....perhaps we Americans should hold mass demonstrations, chant "Death to Turkey!" then attack and burn their embassy?:rolleyes:

mordechaianiliewicz
February 14, 2006, 12:21 AM
Hey, you wanna criticize the war?

Fine. It's your right as an American. I criticize the war, why we are there. How we fight it, etc. I think it's oil, and I don't think for one second we are trying to access "alternative fuel sources." Atleast not as seriously as some EU and Japanese companies are.

You wanna criticize American treatment of prisoners in Abu Ghraib? Fine. I criticize treatment of prisoners in Abu Ghraib.

You want to criticize the Patriot Act, I'll get on a bus to Washington to demonstrate with you. It is the most unconstitutional law on the books to be since the Alien & Sedition Acts.

But to play into the hands of terrorists by implying Jews are in league with America in fighting a religious war for the elimination of Arabs and Muslims (to harvest organs) is insane. Some artists make jokes about Mohammad and we have rioting. What will this do? Did these B-grade actors think for one second before doing this?

I seriously do believe Zane and Busey should be tried for treason! Unless you can find the non-existant proof for this imaginary alliance, it has no business being supported by any American. The 1st Amendment does not protect slander or libel, or enemy propaganda! This is ammunition that might get some young Muslims to join in concert with the other messages they are told in that society.

You already have people that believe the Protocols of the Elders of Zion in the Muslim World. You already have more "martyrs" ready to die on the altar of a perverted and evil corruption of Islam. Now, this makes it look like the Wahabi Muslims are right.

If we do get over our oil addiction and leave the Middle East, we might never be able to convince legions of terrorists to stop killing us.

That is in any event. When people who are supposed to know better make up a genocidal plot movie, it does not bode well.

If you hate George Bush's administration get on a soapbox, and let everyone know. Tell us why, and tell us why we should hate him too. But if you insist on lying, stretching the truth, and fueling a :fire: which could get Americans killed, you should have no mercy and get no quarter from us. You prove you are not an American.

Go to Saudi Arabia, where you belong! See if they'll accept you!

progunner1957
February 14, 2006, 12:32 AM
I have suspected as much for years, but now it is official: Gary Busey is a waste of skin, in addition to being a third-rate actor/cokehead. If this is the best acting job he can get, his career is really at the bottom of the barrel.

What's next for him - Saturday afternoon Kung Fu theater, where the Kung Fu guys jump up and stick to the walls and the translated soundtrack is five seconds out of lip sync??:D

Maybe he can get on Al Franken's "Air America" - it's roughly the same caliber as Kung Fu Theater.:evil:

MatthewVanitas
February 14, 2006, 12:33 AM
TROOPS WHO HAD NO RIGHT TO BE IN IRAQ, I might add. Troops who were almost certainly sent in to foment rebelion and insurgency in northern Iraq. We would have been in our rights to kill them all on the spot.

Turks fomenting Muslim insurgency in Iraq? Not bloody likely. Though Turkey is a majority Muslim nation, the gov't is pretty right wing secular. Turkey actually has right-wing secular terrorist organizations (like the Gray Wolves) that have fought Muslims and communists.

Any Turkish HSLD types in Kurdistan were most likely there to exact some revenge on Kurds who had fought for Kurdish independence inside Turkey.

The Turkish/Kurdish fighting was really nasty a few years back, atrocities committed by both sides. These Turks were, as I understand it, tracking down the leaders of various trans-national Kurdish liberation groups.

The Turks have zero room to point fingers. How soon they forget that just a few generations ago they ruled Iraq along with most Arab nations with a brutality we've rarely matched in our worst hours.

No argument there. The Turks did a lot of gruesome stuff in the previous century. Killed a lot of Armenians in the 10s and 20s, fought some big wars, purged a lot of communists, held a lot of coups, and always fighting the Kurds. On an individual basis, the Turks are some great folks, wonderful people. But as a nation, it's been colorful.

I'm definitely going to go see this movie. Not eager to give money to the director, maybe have a buddy pick up a bootleg copy in Istanbul this summer.

-MV

Hatchett
February 14, 2006, 01:06 AM
Gary Busey will do anything to make a part work. Don't you know that he put on 30 pounds so that he could have a leading roll on celebrity fit club?

Cosmoline
February 14, 2006, 01:54 AM
Turks fomenting Muslim insurgency in Iraq? Not bloody likely. Though Turkey is a majority Muslim nation, the gov't is pretty right wing secular. Turkey actually has right-wing secular terrorist organizations (like the Gray Wolves) that have fought Muslims and communists.

You're behind the times I'm afraid. Turkey's parliament swung over to the Islamic right wing in 2002 when Erdogan and crew surged to victory. This is why their parliament would not support the deal to allow US troops to move through Turkey.

The current yahoos in charge have as much love for us as the Syrians do, though they try to maintain a facade of friendship to avoid unseemly confrontations within NATO. They have every interest in trying to cause enough trouble in Northern Iraq to keep the Kurds from forming a viable independent state. They don't want total chaos, but they don't want a viable nation state that could stand as a rival claimant on the Turkish lands with Kurdish majorities and substantial minorities. They're on record as reserving the right to invade Kurdish Iraq should it become an independent nation, which would be the first time two NATO members have ever come to blows and would end the alliance on top of causing tremendous bloodshed.

Turks are not Arabs, and they have a long history of fighting incredibly hard and long wars. They're also very well equipped and well trained, often engaging in joint exercises with our own and Israel's troops. The worst of wars are always between earstwhile friends, and a US vs. Turkey conflict over a Kurdish republic would be very bad. This makes US actors aiding anti-Israel and anti-American agitprop all the more dangerous. If you whip up anger in the Arab street they usually just set fire to some buildings and maybe detonate themselves. The Turks, though, could do some very serious harm. I can't recally anyone who fought them in the past two centuries who considered them easy to defeat.

Any Turkish HSLD types in Kurdistan were most likely there to exact some revenge on Kurds who had fought for Kurdish independence inside Turkey.

Well we'll never know exactly why they were there, since we had to give them back before spending any "quality time" with them. But it's safe to say they weren't there to help our guys out :D

LawDog
February 14, 2006, 08:20 AM
I like the Turks. Tough people, and not given to religious fanaticism.

They're on the ground in Afghanistan, and are pulling their weight, and we're resupplying out of Turkish airfields.

However, we spent a great deal of effort training and building rapport with the Kurds. The Turk snake-eaters were there to screw that up. They got caught, and we tossed them back over the border. It happens.

LawDog

davec
February 14, 2006, 08:24 AM
BREAKING NEWS: Actors act in a movie. More shocking details at 11.

feedthehogs
February 14, 2006, 08:49 AM
What ever happened to the notion of, I don't like what your saying but I'll defend to the death your right to do so?

Its a propaganda film in time of war. We do it, they do it, the whole world does it.

Nobody except those few behind the white house doors, really knows what this war, occupation, police action, call it what you will, is all about and what the real agenda is.
Press releases, statements and the such can be taken for the value of the paper they are written on.

Calling for a treason trial is a little extreme.

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing.............................until those that disagree with us exercise the same right.

Sergeant Sabre
February 14, 2006, 08:49 AM
Turkish special forces soldiers in Iraq was taken into custody by American marines. The Turks, mistaken for insurgents, were handcuffed and held with hoods over their heads. The incident angered many Turks

My unit, the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit, was the one who did this in Mosul, Iraq. We also had one Turkish officer assigned to our unit who acted as an observer.

TROOPS WHO HAD NO RIGHT TO BE IN IRAQ, I might add. Troops who were almost certainly sent in to foment rebelion and insurgency in northern Iraq

My assessment is that no, they were not. The primary Turkish concern before and immediately after the initial invasion was the Kurdish population in northeast Iraq. The Kurds have been violently persecuted by the Turkish government in Turkey and are hated throughout that country. In fact, being a "Kurd" or saying "Kurd" is illegal in Turkey. "Kurds" are actually "Mountain Turks", according to Turkish law.
Anyway, the Turks were very concerned about two things: 1) That hostilities would force Iraq's Kurdish population to displace and stream over the border into Turkey, and 2) That the two Kurdish political parties, the PUK and KDP, who were being lead by our Green Berets, would capture and hold the two northern Iraqi cities of Mosul and Kirkuk. The Turks were afraid of the PUK and KDP staking a claim to the oil-rich areas around Kirkuk and then gaining money and therefore power.
Although I can not legally reveal details, I will say that the Turkish army had certain cross-border plans in place to deal with the to above-stated problems. Said plans did not go beyond the planning stage.

However, we spent a great deal of effort training and building rapport with the Kurds. The Turk snake-eaters were there to screw that up. They got caught, and we tossed them back over the border. It happens.

A good statement. The primary purpose of our silly Turkish observer, and the purpose of the Turkish guys who we nabbed, was to make sure the Iraqi Kurds did not gain control of Mosul and (more importantly) the oil-rich city of Kirkuk. Actually, when we got to Mosul Airfield, the Kurds were there. They seemed like nice enough guys. They gave us some pretty good food, the nature of which I simply can not begin to describe. However, the Turks had a hissy-fit and we sent them packing back to the mountains.

We dropped the Turks we nabbed off at the Turkish border north of Dahuk, Iraq. Then we captured them near Mosul again later. :eek:

LawDog
February 14, 2006, 09:12 AM
They gave us some pretty good food, the nature of which I simply can not begin to describe.

Goat is good. :evil:

LawDog

longeyes
February 14, 2006, 10:51 AM
It's a propaganda film in time of war. We do it, they do it, the whole world does it.


Perhaps, but usually the opposing "propaganda" is not made with the complicity and enthusiasm of public figures from your own nation.

The ranks of the people whose passports should be yanked are growing.

Double Naught Spy
February 14, 2006, 11:07 AM
Perhaps, but usually the opposing "propaganda" is not made with the complicity and enthusiasm of public figures from your own nation.

The ranks of the people whose passports should be yanked are growing.

It sure the hell is! That is part of the way the movies are able to foster a better flowing story. The US has used Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Iraqi, Iranian, German, and Soviet persons in their movies and continue to do so. American Indians have repeatedly played the role of the savage and evil Indians who attack, kill, rape, and kidnap those kindly, gentle, loving, Christian settlers who wanted nothing more than to live peacefully in North America.

As noted, actors act. That is what they do.

progunner1957
February 14, 2006, 01:31 PM
Its a propaganda film in time of war.
A propaganda film in time of war, designed to give aid to the enemy. There's a word for that: Treason.

Last time I checked, treason was still a federal crime and "freedom of speech" does not get you off the hook.

However, our so-called culture has become so effete and politically correct that treason is no longer prosecuted. If a nation no longer has the courage to prosecute its traitors, it is aiding in its own demise.

Cosmoline
February 14, 2006, 02:27 PM
The primary purpose of our silly Turkish observer, and the purpose of the Turkish guys who we nabbed, was to make sure the Iraqi Kurds did not gain control of Mosul and (more importantly) the oil-rich city of Kirkuk. Actually, when we got to Mosul Airfield, the Kurds were there. They seemed like nice enough guys. They gave us some pretty good food, the nature of which I simply can not begin to describe. However, the Turks had a hissy-fit and we sent them packing back to the mountains.

We dropped the Turks we nabbed off at the Turkish border north of Dahuk, Iraq. Then we captured them near Mosul again later. :eek:

I appreciate your service, and I know the political issues weren't in your hands so I don't blame you for this. But whoever decided it was a good idea to let the Turks observe or participate in any way in Northern Iraq needs a swift kick. My bet the whole concept came via Foggy Bottom.

Think about it for a second. These are the same POS's who refused to assist our efforts IN ANY WAY in Iraq. They backed out on what was supposed to be a done deal with their then-PM. As a result we were forced to send in paratroops and airlift the forces into Northern Iraq. Now thank the lord there wasn't that much opposition at that point, but having to send paratroops in because an "ally" won't let you move armor across its frontier is far from ideal. It also prevented us from sweeping down with armor and fully mechanized units from the north as the other half of a pincer. As a result, we were delayed in getting the all-important central Iraq secured and the insurgents were able to grab up tons of munitions. I'm not saying the Turks are to blame for the insurgency, but if we'd been able to sweep down in one flowing movement from the north as well as from the south, we could have settled Saddam's hash a lot sooner and secured the chaotic zones in the triangle.

IMHO those animals should have lost ANY right to have ANY say over ANY aspect of our Iraq policy. We owe them ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, since when we needed them they saw fit to crawfish on the deal and tell us to go to hell.

I hope the Kurds continue their positive development in N. Iraq and eventually reclaim the lands the Turks stole.

Carl N. Brown
February 14, 2006, 03:37 PM
Kurtlar vadisi - Irak (2006)
aka "Valley of the Wolves: Iraq"

a quick summary of lint from my vacuum cleaner:

For 97 episodes of Valley of the Wolves, a Turkish "James Bond" or "Rambo"
took on the Mafia in a world of Turkish-Russian-Chechyan-American-Mossad
espionage services in a Turkish TV serial. We all know the truth of spy movies :)
For the movie, he takes on a psychotic American soldier "Sam Marshall"
(Billy Zane) being psycho and a Jewish Dr. Franken-Mengele-Stein (Gary Busey)
shipping Iraqi body parts to Tel Aviv.

many reviewers from Turkey claim that the movie represents the truth about Iraq

HOWEVER, over at IMDb:

one turkish reviewer:
this movie is very much like "midnight express". . . each and every one of
the turks in the movie was a sadistic villain. Likewise, Kurtlar Vadisi depicts
all of the Americans as plain villains. . . . the organ trading cannot be done
officially, as is depicted in the movie. I hate this movie as much as I hate
midnight express because it does not serve a useful purpose except for making
it harder for different cultures to know each other and get along.

another turkish reviewer:
This movie is not a documentary nor an adaptation of a real story.
Its fiction from beginning to the end. It's so fiction that at some points
there are no relations between events . . .

another turkish reviewer:
Other than the opening part of this film, little is based on reality. . . .
the film is an abortion. It starts with a fact that was terrible and then
combines and makes up whatever it wants . . .

from Sweden:
I'm grateful that Americans are not only who does propaganda movies
these day and letting them taste of their own medicine :) ! (just kidding)
This is still just a movie and shouldn't be taken personally

from Canada:
We should have a movie made about how the Turks slaughtered 1.5
million Armenians instead of how a FEW stupid Americans humiliated a FEW Turks.

from Netherlands:

The film gives a good view about the democracy which America wants to
export to the whole world. . . . .It is the American-Jewish imperialism which
is the true reason of the whole thing.
(hey, is that myHONORcalled LOYALTY? Nah.)

from United States:
for the first time somebody dared to shoot a movie that showed
everyone the facts.

back to Turkey:
This film is very useful to wake up some people.
Because American press have been trying to hide these tortures of American soldiers

American Press hid tortures (by) American soldiers? American press ran hours upon
hours of the same Abu Ghraib "torture" pictures over and over. They were scarcely hidden.
They were rubbed in peoples faces hours and days on end by US TV.
If you want torture, check out BBC TV's "Bravo Two Zero" about the torture of
British soldiers by the Saddam-ites in the first Gulf War,

and another turkish reviewer:
The U.S don't need to have any foreign Country telling everybody the
truth, they already have Michale Moorer doing that for them.

NOBODY FROM IRAQ TYPED ABOUT HOW REAL AND FACTUAL THE MOVIE WAS
but then what do they know? the swedes, dutch, stateside americans
KNOW THE TRUTH just like "Michale Moorer" they pull it out their imaginations.

How about those euro trash movies where the Russian Mafia is always
linked up with the vampires and werewolves in some sinister plot?

As with Last House on the Left, when watching Valley of the Wolves Iraq,
keep repeating ... its only a movie ... its only a movie

Lo.Com.Denom
February 14, 2006, 04:32 PM
It's "Hanoi Zane!" :D

and my work here is done...

IBTL?

Cosmoline
February 14, 2006, 04:37 PM
Perfect :D

Though I still think Busey might get a pass because he really is nuts. It's possible the man doesn't really understand what universe he's living in.

davec
February 14, 2006, 06:49 PM
A propaganda film in time of war, designed to give aid to the enemy. There's a word for that: Treason.

We're at war with Turkey? When did that happen? Do other members of the NATO alliance know this? Did the United States Congress issue a declaration of war against Turkey?

Geeze, theres a secret war with Turkey right under our noses. Who knew.

We better stop actors from appearing in our enemies (Turkies) films. Those bastards.

Kim
February 14, 2006, 08:05 PM
Here is the problem. Freedom of Speech is a good thing. But it does NOT mean you can say anything without consequences. This is something the LEFT does not understand. They do not care what their loose talk causes as long as they can holler Feedom of Speech. I do not have to support what people say. I can call it TREASON. That is my Freedom of Speech. The ACLU when it was founded by The Communist --------Baldwin great goal was to use our FREEDOM of speech aganist us. They were very good at what they did. Now no one can call a traitor a traitor and it mean anything. Sorry those of us who know better have to use our freedom of speech to denounce people like this actor. He did what he did with bad intentions aganist this country. I will not appplaud him. I find nothing honorable in his actions. I denounce him as a traitor to his country. :fire:

Carl N. Brown
February 15, 2006, 03:02 PM
You mean he was not acting nuts in Under Siege?

Maybe Zane and Busey were on a secret mission to undermine the
Turks by making a bad movie. Or their agent had something else in
the hookah.

atek3
February 15, 2006, 11:05 PM
I wonder when it will come out on video. maybe i can download an english dubbed version with bittorrent.

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