Absolute best quality and most accurate new production AK?


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Ligament
February 13, 2006, 11:49 PM
Hi All,
What is the absolute BEST quality, most accurate AK in 7.62 available? I have been debating between a milled arsenal versus a VEPR K versus a Krebs custom VEPR (no longer made, but available used). Are there other manufacturers I am overlooking? I would ideally like to keep the cost under $2000. I would like parts to still be available from the original manufacturer. Any insight appreciated. Thanks.
I should mention this will be my SHTF/TEOTWAWKI rifle. So Durability is key. Yeah, I know all AKs are extremely durable. I would assume this would point me toward polymer versus wood stocks, etc for durability.

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nobby
February 19, 2006, 04:56 PM
Hi All,
What is the absolute BEST quality, most accurate AK in 7.62 available? I have been debating between a milled arsenal versus a VEPR K versus a Krebs custom VEPR (no longer made, but available used). Are there other manufacturers I am overlooking? I would ideally like to keep the cost under $2000. I would like parts to still be available from the original manufacturer. Any insight appreciated. Thanks.
I should mention this will be my SHTF/TEOTWAWKI rifle. So Durability is key. Yeah, I know all AKs are extremely durable. I would assume this would point me toward polymer versus wood stocks, etc for durability.


You are answering your own question. Get a VEPR (insert model here) and you'll be set for life with unmatched "FACTORY BUILT" quality (not parts guns).

PAC 762
February 19, 2006, 05:27 PM
...with unmatched "FACTORY BUILT" quality (not parts guns).

:barf:

Who do you think puts more TLC into the build process, some vodka-swilling Russian being paid minimum wage on and assembly line, or a home builder spending hours to craft a rifle for himself? And a parts gun is only as good as the parts, in which case any commonly available Hungarian, Polish, or Yugo kit has better quality parts than the Russians ever made.

GTSteve03
February 19, 2006, 05:36 PM
Who do you think puts more TLC into the build process, some vodka-swilling Russian being paid minimum wage on and assembly line, or a home builder spending hours to craft a rifle for himself? And a parts gun is only as good as the parts, in which case any commonly available Hungarian, Polish, or Yugo kit has better quality parts than the Russians ever made.
So the Hungarian, Yugo or Polish assembly line worker that built the parts found in those parts kits never imbibed the local rotgut du jour? :rolleyes:

Considering the AK was a Russian design that was built originally in Russia and has had the most time and effort dedicated to production and improvement from its home country, I would say go with a Russian-built gun.

Preacherman
February 19, 2006, 07:01 PM
Ligament, my first choice would be an Arsenal AK variant - they're the best of all those I've handled and fired over the years. The VEPR would be a good second choice.

An alternative (and the path I'm following for myself) is to get the Saiga in 7.62x39, and convert it to full AK configuration. The basic gun is the most modern AK action out there (AK-100, IIRC), and when restored to its normal configuration, is accurate, reliable and sturdy. Details of my conversion project may be found in this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=172537) - there are some changes likely to happen, depending on part availability, but that's the basic configuration right there. It will cost the same as (or more than) an Arsenal, but will be tailored to exactly what I want.

My conversion is being done by Volunteer Ordnance Works (http://www.volunteerordnanceworks.com/index.html) in TN, but there are many gunsmiths who offer similar services, and you'll probably find one closer to you if you look around. You could also look at FBMG, a company run by two of our moderators, Correia and PvtPyle. They offer Saiga conversions in various calibers, although I'm not sure of how "customisable" they are. Their Web site is here (http://www.fbmginc.com/).

_N4Z_
February 19, 2006, 07:08 PM
+1 Thumbs up for FBMG.

Good people up there in Utah.

PAC 762
February 20, 2006, 10:12 PM
So the Hungarian, Yugo or Polish assembly line worker that built the parts found in those parts kits never imbibed the local rotgut du jour? :rolleyes:

Considering the AK was a Russian design that was built originally in Russia and has had the most time and effort dedicated to production and improvement from its home country, I would say go with a Russian-built gun.

All guns are built with "parts". Nobby was just spewing back some marketing crap that the Vepr importer uses to sell guns. Russian parts are some of the lower quality parts around. Not as bad as some, but no match for Polish, Hungarian, or yugo parts. I'd take a Hungarian gun any day compared to a Russian. Look at them side by side and try to tell me different.

beerslurpy
February 21, 2006, 01:15 AM
Go for an arsenal or vepr, or go for a custom build like krebs or ohio rapid fire.

Or tromix, he is known to do awesome work (he did my saiga and is currently doing my bulgarian AK). With tromix you can definitely choose your caliber. He has been making 458 socom AKs and he also does desporterizations for saigas and other such guns, so you can get 308s, 223s, 12gas etc for your AK.

clange
February 21, 2006, 03:28 AM
All guns are built with "parts". Nobby was just spewing back some marketing crap that the Vepr importer uses to sell guns. Russian parts are some of the lower quality parts around. Not as bad as some, but no match for Polish, Hungarian, or yugo parts. I'd take a Hungarian gun any day compared to a Russian. Look at them side by side and try to tell me different.
Ok, pretty much no one would agree with you on the AK boards. The russian saigas and Veprs are very high quality weapons.

If you're claiming otherwise I'd like to see some hard evidence. Tell me why I'm wrong and most of the posters on major AK boards are wrong.

I mean seriously, you're saying a yugo kit build is better then a vepr? A beat to hell yugo, with a non-chromed sewer pipe barrel is going to be better than a vepr or saiga? :scrutiny: Plus, the US made receivers all have some kind of issues, some major. They're pretty good (my most expensive AK is a kit build on a global 1.0), but they still arent as good as a factory built russian or bulgarian rifle, and the build totally depends on the skill of the builder. There are a lot of US AK builders that turn out pure trash. If you're buying a kit build and dont know who built it..best of luck to you. Thats something you DONT have to worry about with Veprs, Saigas, Arsenals, FEGs, Polytechs, Norincos, Robarms, etc etc etc.

As far as issue weapons, the russians are usually regarded as the best, with the bulgarians close behind. The polish are nice, hungarian good, german, the yugos are good (but no chrome lined barrel), chinese, and the romanians are bringing up the rear. Thats for kits. For actual imported complete guns it'd go russian, bulgarian, hungarian, chinese, egyptian, romanian, egyptian. (depends on what kind of maadi). Etc.

Lone_Gunman
February 21, 2006, 07:27 AM
The Vepr is the only AK I have much experience with, but it is a great gun. It is much better fit and finished than any other AK I have ever handled.

Dave Markowitz
February 21, 2006, 07:48 AM
Of the production guns it's a toss-up between the rifles from Arsenal, Inc. and the Robarm VEPRs. I personally like the milled Arsenals the best; I don't like the balance on the VEPRs -- too muzzle heavy. But either one is extremely well made and finished, and will give you many years of service.

Correia
February 21, 2006, 09:41 AM
Thanks for the kind words. Tromix does all of FBMG's Saiga conversions. He does awesome work.

MinMAN
February 21, 2006, 12:34 PM
In my opinion, a big part of the design concept of the AK weapon platform, is designed to be manufactured in large quantities in varioues Soviet block countries. Training an AK gunsmith is simple, as long as they are skillfull. I see no reason that a compitant Gunsmith with the desire to produce a first rate AKs, can't, and compete with the best of them.

Essex County
February 22, 2006, 02:59 PM
I don't really feel such an animal exisits. I've sold three Ak's and kept my AR's. Please don't feel offended by this post. It is sincere...Essex

MinMAN
February 22, 2006, 05:23 PM
Hi All,
What is the absolute BEST quality, most accurate AK in 7.62 available? I have been debating between a milled arsenal versus a VEPR K versus a Krebs custom VEPR (no longer made, but available used). Are there other manufacturers I am overlooking? I would ideally like to keep the cost under $2000. I would like parts to still be available from the original manufacturer. Any insight appreciated. Thanks.
I should mention this will be my SHTF/TEOTWAWKI rifle. So Durability is key. Yeah, I know all AKs are extremely durable. I would assume this would point me toward polymer versus wood stocks, etc for durability.

Valmet would be the one. The Finns have nack for taking a Soviet design, and improving it. If you can find one "Minty/like new" expect to pay between $1750-$2250. Which is with in your budget.

Correia
February 22, 2006, 05:41 PM
For $2,000 you could take a Saiga, have it converted by Tony Rumore of Tromix to any configuration you want, put a full Ultimak rail system on it, with a new EoTech, and have enough left for a few cases of ammo.

rangerruck
February 27, 2006, 05:22 AM
saiga, saiga, and ther is saiga. cold steel pour , hammer forged, chrome line bbls. i have one of ea cal. love em.

georgeduz
February 27, 2006, 08:14 AM
sorry to say i never had much luck with the ak or 7,62x39.with 2000 dollars you can buy a truck load of them.but if thats what you really like you will find a very hard road ahead of you.

Correia
February 27, 2006, 09:40 AM
George, last year we had a tactical rifle match. Eight stages, rifle from CQB to 200 yards. The targets were from regular sized IDPA, to steel plates, to itty bitty 2 inch squares. The shooters in this match were no slouches, but these are our usual 3gun shooters, and they are good with rifles. Far better than the average poster on the internet. :)

http://www.udpl.net/results/2005/Rifle-CarbineResultsByTime5-28-05.pdf

See where my name is? I shot an iron sighted Vepr K in 7.62x39. The winner shot a really nice AR, JPed out with a magnifying optic on top and CQB sights on the handguard. (and he is a damn good shooter). Everybody else in the top 10 shot a nice AR. Now if the range went out beyond 200 yards, I would have fallen behind due to the 7.62x39 and the iron sights.

A good AK is capable of a lot more than folks give it credit for. There are accurate AKs out there. Just because you haven't seen one doesn't mean they don't exist.

MechAg94
February 27, 2006, 12:07 PM
+1 what Correia said. An AK can do the job with a good gun and decent sights. It is not near as bad as some people like to say.

If over half the AR's out there were made by Hesse or builders like them, what kind of reputation would AR's have? I think too many get their first impression of AK's based on really cheap versions.

clange
February 27, 2006, 01:40 PM
A good AK is capable of a lot more than folks give it credit for. There are accurate AKs out there. Just because you haven't seen one doesn't mean they don't exist.
George just likes to let us know he hates AKs..in EVERY AK thread that gets posted. :rolleyes:

The Real Hawkeye
February 28, 2006, 12:25 AM
My Arsenal looks great and shoots great. Can't beat it, I think. Here's a picture.

nobby
March 19, 2009, 06:15 PM
Wow.

srm970
March 19, 2009, 06:21 PM
the best i ever had and wish i still had.. was made in bulgaria a few years ago.. hell must have been 15 now thinkng back.. but it was an all milled receiver.. the barrel was a hammer forged crome lined one made by styer.. would shoot 1.5 in groups at 100 yards. with a cheap 4 power scope on top of it.. not sure. but i think it was called an sa-93.. lol. i paid 250 for it.. sold it for almost 500.. now they are going between 750 and 1000.. doohhh

shawn

f8talh8red
March 19, 2009, 07:36 PM
i would get a lancaster arms

Runningman
March 19, 2009, 07:39 PM
Best would be the Finland made Valmet with the Bulgaria made Arsenal very close.

jws527
March 20, 2009, 12:53 AM
Just a thought, and because I didn't see it mentioned (if it was, sorry):

From what I understand, the Czech vz.58 seems to have a good reputation. Not an AK (no parts commonality), but very similar:

http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=95

You can usually find them for around $900, which is no more or less than a typical Arsenal model.

chris in va
March 20, 2009, 12:54 AM
Ok, who resurrected this 3 year old thread.

jws527
March 20, 2009, 12:56 AM
Wasn't me - but I should have paid attention to the posting dates. Ah, well. :D

Gelgoog
March 20, 2009, 03:05 AM
Find yourself a Krebs KTR-03 and never look back..it is the top dog....

unless you have more then 2k to blow on a valmet or galil.

MD_Willington
March 20, 2009, 10:34 AM
VEPR was made by MOLOT... the other vodka swilling Russians...

Legion Saiga - Arsenal
VEPR
Saiga
Norinco
etc
insert controversy here...

GRAYRID3R
March 20, 2009, 12:11 PM
http://www.ohioordnanceworks.com/semi-auto/VZ2000-semi-auto.html

Bought my 1918BARA3 from these people and they are excellent to work with

VINTAGE-SLOTCARS
March 20, 2009, 12:56 PM
Another for Valmet, I have a m-76 (.223) and love it. Years ago I put an underfolder on it and it is awsome.

publiuss
March 20, 2009, 01:04 PM
HEY now,... I've made some of my most powerful handloads with a bottle of bourbon on the load bench!:what:

Kymasabe
March 20, 2009, 02:21 PM
If you could find an Armory USA SSR-85C2 Bulgarian with the 1.6mm thick receiver, jump all over it.
Otherwise, my choice for a really well-built, high quality AK would be:
Tromix
Krebs Customs
Arsenal
...in that order.
Or, go buy a Saiga and do the conversion yourself.

gga357
March 20, 2009, 03:11 PM
+1 Arsenal

SharpsDressedMan
March 20, 2009, 06:35 PM
Armory USA with a 5.45 kit. The 5.45 is extremely accurate by my experience.

alpinemike
April 10, 2009, 03:07 AM
Love them or hate them, the Kalashnikov is an tried and true design. The name ak 47 indicates the name of the designer and the year it went into production. 1947! 62 years in active service!! Many firearms enthusiast and historians do consider the Kalashnikov to be the very best combat rifle ever produced. And I actually agree with those firearms experts. So all you M-4 GUYS WITH ALL THAT $$ .:neener:

MD_Willington
April 10, 2009, 03:17 AM
Tromix
Krebs Customs
Arsenal

They all use Saiga's

LOL

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