Bill to make Hawaii Shall-Issue!


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kage genin
February 14, 2006, 02:37 PM
This is looking like a trend that's catching on nationwide! I hope California is next! :D
From Hawaii Reporter (http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?f63ec11c-c076-43bc-9d0f-5d834043964d):
Hawaii's Women Fighting Against Violence Will Support Concealed Carry Bill Pending in State Legislature
Hearing on 'Shall Issue' Bill Set for Tuesday, Valentine's Day, at 3 p.m. at the Hawaii State Capitol
By Malia Zimmerman, 2/13/2006 1:22:51 AM

An 18-year-old college student attending the University of Hawaii at Manoa was walking near the school’s campus last Spring at 9 p.m. when five men she did not know snatched her off the sidewalk, dragged her into their car and viciously beat and raped her. The gang initiation-like attack followed a series of rapes in the area, including one of an 85-year-old woman, who was tied up and raped at knifepoint by a bigger, stronger, younger man with prior sex assault convictions.

In a recent case on the Big Island, a mother with two young children, pregnant in her third trimester with her third child, was beaten until she was near death by her boyfriend. Doctors delivered the infant, but could not save the young mother who was taken off of life support just hours after delivering the baby, because she was declared brain dead.

Just last week on the West Side of Oahu a 21-year-old woman was murdered by her 39-year-old boyfriend, who beat her to death with a hammer before stabbing himself. Though the couple had what those close to them called a "stormy relationship," family members say they had no idea the boyfriend was capable of the fatal assault.

These are just four examples of innocent women in Hawaii who were viciously attacked, raped and murdered, by men who overpowered them -- women who never had the chance to call 9-1-1 for help -- women who could not have been protected by police in time to prevent their attack even if they had the opportunity to pick up the phone, dial 9-1-1, be routed to a police dispatcher, and explain their situation and whereabouts. Unfortunately, Hawaii’s law enforcement say, the cases of violence against women are not rare.

A group of local women say they will fight against such violent acts -- not with a demonstration or protest -- but with legislation they plan to endorse. They are spending this Tuesday, Feb. 14, their Valentine's Day, at a hearing at the Hawaii State Capitol, where they will ask state lawmakers to pass a bill that allows law-abiding citizens to carry a firearm for protection.

The bill, introduced by Sen. Sam Slom, R-Hawaii Kai, mandates Hawaii’s four county police chiefs "Shall Issue" concealed carry permits to law-abiding citizens who request them. Currently, Hawaii law says police chiefs "May Issue" concealed carry permits, which enables the four police chiefs -- who are for stricter gun laws and against concealed carry -- complete leeway in who they issue a permit to and who they do not.

Dr. Max Cooper, spokesperson for the Hawaii Rifle Association, says despite numerous applications from a variety of citizens -- including firearms instructors and victims of violence -- Hawaii’s county police chiefs have refused to issue concealed carry permits. He says the existing law needs to be amended slightly so people can protect themselves with firearms if they are attacked out of their home. Especially with increasing violent crime, home break-ins, property crime and illegal drug use of "Ice" known to make criminals stronger and more violent.

Hawaii is one of only 13 states that does not have a "Shall Issue" law for concealed carry.

Cooper, who is encouraging all citizens who believe in the Second Amendment and who want to support the concealed carry bill, to testify on Tuesday, says the law, if implemented, will lower crime in Hawaii.

"Hawaii's strict gun control laws discourage law-abiding citizens from possessing firearms, and result in higher crime rates. If Hawaii passed a non-discretionary carry law, there would be fewer murders, rapes, robberies, and assaults reported annually, statewide. Suffering of victims and their families, dollars lost to medical care and loss of productivity, and the justice system burden would be proportionately reduced. There is no down side," Cooper says.

Second Amendment advocates complain that Hawaii’s county police are so anti-Second Amendment, they so far have refused to implement a federal law passed two years ago, which says all retired police officers who served on the force for 10 or more years, must be issued a concealed carry permit if they apply. The four police chiefs passed off their obligation to implement the law to the state attorney general, who says Hawaii is working on implementing a training and certification program. However, several of Hawaii’s retired police officers told Hawaii Reporter that the state is "dragging its feet" in implementing the federal law and so far has refused to even let its own retired police officers to obtain concealed carry permits.

Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, says 37 other state governments have granted their citizens the right to keep and bear arms, something more Americans -- including those in Hawaii -- are pushing for in the wake of the Sept 11, 2001, terrorist attack on America and the looting and violence that occurred in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina.

A recent Gallup poll shows the greatest decline of public confidence in law enforcement in 10 years, which Gottlieb says largely explains why a growing number of Americans are arming themselves for protection against criminals.

Gallup's annual Crime Poll was conducted in mid-October with Gallup randomly contacting 1,012 adults across the United States. Results revealed that confidence in the ability of police to protect people from violent crime slipped from 61 percent in 2004 to 53 percent in 2005. Although there are many dedicated men and women in law enforcement; their ranks are stretched thin, and that they cannot be everywhere at once, Gottlieb says.

He adds the poll results are understandable in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, where thousands of Americans were left to fend for themselves in an environment of looting and more serious crime. "Americans witnessed on national television why it is so important for them to be able to take care of themselves, their families, and their property. They are buying firearms and learning how to use them," Gottlieb says.

In addition, Gottlieb says citizens across the country are learning that myriad gun laws have not made them safer: "They're no longer falling for the promises of the gun control crowd that the police will protect them, so they shouldn't own a gun. And you can bet they will fight for their right to keep that firearm."

Three bills relating to firearms will be heard on Feb. 14, 2006, in the Senate Intergovernmental Affairs and Judiciary and Hawaiian Affairs committees. Those include SB 2531 RELATING TO FIREARMS, which authorizes chiefs of police to issue licenses to carry a concealed firearm; SB 2532 RELATING TO FIREARMS, which allows retired law enforcement officers to be issued a concealed carry permit, and SB 2533 RELATING TO FIREARMS, which preempts any and all ordinances, resolutions or motions, or administrative action of any county or county agency relating to firearms. Persons wishing to testify should submit 35 copies of their testimony to the committee clerk, Room 215, State Capitol, 24 hours prior to the hearing and include your name, position/title, organization, contact information, position on the measure, the hearing date, bill title and committee to which your testimony should be referred. Please submit your handwritten or typed testimony on one side of 8-1/2 x 11-inch paper with 1-inch margins. Testimony may also be faxed if less than 5 pages in length, to the Senate Sergeant-At-Arms Office at 586-6659 or 1-800-586-6659 (toll free for neighbor islands), at least 24 hours prior to the hearing. When faxing, please indicate to whom the testimony is being submitted, the date and time of the hearing, and the required number of copies needed for submittal. If you require special assistance or auxiliary aids or services to participate in the public hearing process (i.e., sign language interpreter, wheelchair accessibility, or parking designated for the disabled) please contact the committee clerk 24 hours prior to the hearing so arrangements can be made. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION, PLEASE CALL THE COMMITTEE CLERK AT 586-6230. Full copies of the bills are available at: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/site1/docs/docs.asp?press1=docs

Reach Malia Zimmerman, editor and president of Hawaii Reporter, via email at mailto:Malia@hawaiireporter.com

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ElTacoGrande
February 14, 2006, 02:40 PM
I would be just stunned and unable to process reality if HI went shall-issue. I'm sure NY and CA will be shall-issue before Hawaii. They do not have the American culture of individualism and the American ethics of use-of-force that are pre-requisites for a successful CCW program.

Of course I hope they do get it; CCW should be legal everywhere in the world, IMHO.

ElTacoGrande
February 14, 2006, 02:50 PM
Btw, HI currently has "may issue" but in reality it's "never ever issue". They don't even have an application form. There are no licensed permit holders in HI AFAIK. In CA (which is may-issue) permits are handed out as favors to well-connected people, but in HI this isn't done. They just never ever issue permits. HI should really be classified as "never issue", not "may issue".

Joey2
February 14, 2006, 02:58 PM
Violent crimes and home break-ins are on the rise here. The drug of choice is crack.

We are also getting more Mexicans from Mexico moving over hear partaking in the drug trade.

I'am not holding my breath for the Shall Issue to pass.

answerguy
February 14, 2006, 03:22 PM
I can think of two places a snowball would have a hard time surviving in; Hell & Hawaii.

Gray Peterson
February 14, 2006, 03:58 PM
Btw, HI currently has "may issue" but in reality it's "never ever issue". They don't even have an application form. There are no licensed permit holders in HI AFAIK. In CA (which is may-issue) permits are handed out as favors to well-connected people, but in HI this isn't done. They just never ever issue permits. HI should really be classified as "never issue", not "may issue".

Yes, even the politicians don't get permits here, which is probably why this is being seriously considered. They have a friendly Governor.

ElTacoGrande
February 14, 2006, 04:06 PM
Yes, even the politicians don't get permits here, which is probably why this is being seriously considered. They have a friendly Governor.

There are more CCW permits issued in Canada than in HI. There are probably more CCW permits in the UK than in HI. There may even be more CCW permits in Japan than HI.

So yeah, if it helps the politicians get it, and it helps everyone else too, then it's fine with me.

Gray Peterson
February 14, 2006, 04:07 PM
Actually this is part of a set of bills: SB2530 through 2533 would repeal the 10 round mag ban, put in CCW for regular citizens, implement LEOSA in Hawaii, and preempt firearms regulations to a statewide level.

AirForceShooter
February 14, 2006, 04:59 PM
going to be fun to watch.

AFS

cuchulainn
February 14, 2006, 05:03 PM
Ah wanna karra a gun

ElTacoGrande
February 14, 2006, 05:27 PM
Actually this is part of a set of bills: SB2530 through 2533 would repeal the 10 round mag ban, put in CCW for regular citizens, implement LEOSA in Hawaii, and preempt firearms regulations to a statewide level.

GO 808 STATE!

That would be fantastic if they can actually achieve those things. But from what I know of the state, they're going to be (legally) packing guns on the Tokyo subway before they pack in Waikiki.

Don't Tread On Me
February 14, 2006, 06:43 PM
Hawaii shouldn't even be a U.S. State. If they ever do get a strong secessionist movement going, I'll donate a few bucks to their cause.


As for concealed carry, since they are part of the 'union', then the 2nd Amendment applies to them also. They seem to be rabidly anti-gun over there. It is regional and cultural. Pro-RKBA efforts there are a waste of money in my opinion. It's like trying to shove a pro-gun culture down Japan's throat.


Well, sorry for all the negativity. If you guys succeed, then good for you. I'll be praying for you guys. Good luck!

migoi
February 14, 2006, 06:50 PM
at http://www.hawaii-nation.org/index.html will appreciate your dollars.

I believe there is too much plantation/overseer/"someone else" will take care of things mentality here for these bills to ever pass.

Ms. Migoi and I are on the 3-5 year escape plan. We will be moving out in the not too distant future. Our move is based on two factors...too expensive and confusion about the concepts of "citizen" and "subject".

migoi

Standing Wolf
February 14, 2006, 10:36 PM
To date, anyway, Hawaii has expressed no interest in my vacation dollars.

beerslurpy
February 14, 2006, 11:22 PM
Who the hell lives on hawaii anyway? I thought it was just full of navy personnel and japanese tourists. Who is left to vote? The original polynesian natives?

crashresidue
February 14, 2006, 11:44 PM
Cheers beerslurpy,

Did you mean "in Hawaii" or "on Hawaii"(which is the "big Island" to those of us who live here)?

I moved here with a valid out of state conceled permit and got into a major shouting match with the local LEO's when I tried to get it re-issued here.

I sure hope this bill passes - it'll turn me back into a law abiding citizen.

Gentle winds,
cr

ElTacoGrande
February 15, 2006, 12:24 AM
Hawaii shouldn't even be a U.S. State. If they ever do get a strong secessionist movement going, I'll donate a few bucks to their cause.

I agree on that. They still have subject mentality or cane worker / plantation owner mentality. It persists through generations.

As for concealed carry, since they are part of the 'union', then the 2nd Amendment applies to them also. They seem to be rabidly anti-gun over there. It is regional and cultural. Pro-RKBA efforts there are a waste of money in my opinion. It's like trying to shove a pro-gun culture down Japan's throat.

I believe CCW is a fundamental thing that should be legal and possible everywhere, including Japan and Hawaii and everywhere. I disagree about pro-RKBA being useless in Japan. People everywhere should work for freedom and for their rights. Even if it's hopeless.


Well, sorry for all the negativity. If you guys succeed, then good for you. I'll be praying for you guys. Good luck!

Yup, I hope they succeed.

ElTacoGrande
February 15, 2006, 12:28 AM
Cheers beerslurpy,

Did you mean "in Hawaii" or "on Hawaii"(which is the "big Island" to those of us who live here)?

I moved here with a valid out of state conceled permit and got into a major shouting match with the local LEO's when I tried to get it re-issued here.

I sure hope this bill passes - it'll turn me back into a law abiding citizen.


Wow, Crash, that is brave of you to even ask them. I mean, not even Gov. Lingle could get one right now. No one.

And I'm glad you're packing anyway. The more people disobey a law, the less force the law has.

Senor Slurpy, there are a lot of "locals" (non-military) on the islands. The military is only a small part of the population. Most of the "locals" are of mixed ancestry, but there are still somewhat distinct groups of Japanese-descent, Hawaiian-descent, other Asian, other Islanders, and haoles (whites). They all have different mentalities, but "freedom" in the sense that we use the word isn't a big deal for most of them. The Japanese descend from cane workers who were just above slaves in the spectrum of things, and the Hawaiians were subjects. Back in the old days, a commoner who stepped in the shadow of a royal could be killed for that.

answerguy
February 15, 2006, 12:09 PM
Cheers beerslurpy,

Did you mean "in Hawaii" or "on Hawaii"(which is the "big Island" to those of us who live here)?

I moved here with a valid out of state conceled permit and got into a major shouting match with the local LEO's when I tried to get it re-issued here.

I sure hope this bill passes - it'll turn me back into a law abiding citizen.

Gentle winds,
cr

I'm not sure what the point of getting in a shouting match was for. Did you think if you were loud enough that they would see it your way? Did you think you had a snowballs chance of them re-issuing it?

crashresidue
February 16, 2006, 01:29 AM
Cheers,

I didn't start the shouting match - but I'm NOT used to being addressed as a "subject" instead of a citizen.

I've lived in restricted states before, so it wasn't any big deal - UNTIL I was spoken too in a manner which implied that I was too dumb to pound sand and was told "You don't need weapons - the police are here to protect you!"

My mistakes from that point on were two: one, I laughed at him, in front of a bunch of people standing in the lobby including other LEO's and two, when I asked him how many bullets he had in his shirt pocket. He didn't understand this reference, but the people in the lobby did - they laughed loudly.

At this point, his right hand repositioned close to his holster. I said "Son, I'd think about that, because I've killed more people than you've arrested and I'm pretty sure that I can clear this desk before you can clear your holster."

It was "broken-up" by a Capt. asking what the problem was and I said I was just asking about conceled carry in HI. He said "You can't" and I said "That's what I've just been told" and I left.

That was eight years ago - no problems of any kind with the local LEOs. In fact, some of them remember the incident and always bring it up when we meet on the street (or in the bars).

Gentle winds,
cr

beerslurpy
February 16, 2006, 01:58 AM
I didnt get the reference either, but google helped me figure it out. And now I know who Barney Fife was more than just an insult.

crashresidue
February 16, 2006, 04:27 AM
Cheers beerslurpy,

Barney wasn't a bad guy - he was just WAY "behind the power curve".

These LEOs here on Maui just don't have a clue about the real world. They are used to dealing with DUIs and an occasional house break in. They have no clue how to deal with an "ice" crime. "Drug related murders" are Greek to them.

When I moved here, the biggest crime in the papers was a burglery of a " coin jar" containing "quarters".

Not NOW! Talk about being behind the times!

All my HDG's are: hammer down, one in the chamber, safety OFF! Except the 870 - she's loaded, not chambered. If you hear her "cycle" and don't STOP, then it's time to remove YOU from the gene pool!

Nice guys, but I don't depend on them to keep me alive.

Gentle winds,
cr

homeka45
February 16, 2006, 04:35 AM
Don't write us off, despite the "aloha spirit," Hawaiians were fierce warriors. We'll keep working to change things until people wake up. Thanks for the prayers and kind thoughts.
BTW, someone needs to convince Sam Slom to run for governor.

tellner
February 16, 2006, 06:53 AM
I'd love to see it, but it will happen "When rocks fly and winos don't get high. When James Brown ain't funky and King Kong ain't a monkey."

Trebor
February 16, 2006, 09:50 PM
I'd love to see Hawaii become more gun friendly. My wife and I love it there, but I don't want to move there under the current conditions.

Btw, if any THR's want to meet up, we'll be on Mauii and Kaui in April and May.

CAPTAIN MIKE
February 16, 2006, 09:58 PM
Any suggestions on what our Members can do to help Hawaii adopt shall-issue?

neoncowboy
February 16, 2006, 10:16 PM
I lived on Maui for 13 years. It was there that I was the victim of violent crime several times, experiences which shaped my views on arms and preparedness.

Moving away from Maui was bittersweet...the island lifestyle really fit my family well. But at the same time, it's a relief to be out of there.

Here's to the future! Good luck Hawaii...you'll need it!

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