What constitutes "Federal Property"?


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Zundfolge
February 14, 2006, 05:41 PM
The company I work for is considering moving some of our offices (mine included) to a building that also houses the local IRS office.

The building is not owned by the IRS, but does their presence in the building automatically make the building "federal property" and off limits for CCW?

I haven't looked at the building yet, so I don't know if there is security or metal detectors (which in Colorado would make it automatically off limits for CCW) and one of the other major tenants is a bunch of satellite classrooms of the University of Phoenix (so that compounds it with the school thing).


Anyway, if I can't CCW there I'm going to have to nix the move (or start looking for work elsewhere) because aside from not wanting to be told I can't CCW, the building is not in a good part of town ... its in one of those parts of town I'd NEVER consider venturing into after dark unarmed.

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answerguy
February 14, 2006, 06:46 PM
Does federal property automatically mean no CCW in Colorado, or anywhere for that matter?

Ok, back from a Google search, you are probably referring to this:
Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in
Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in
a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to
do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1
year, or both.
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I thought this was only in regards to Post Offices (oops).
But it is tempered by this:

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
I just don't think there is any case law to prove that this covers CCW.
Anyone want to be the test case?

Technosavant
February 14, 2006, 06:55 PM
If the whole building is not owned by the feds, I doubt the whole would be considered federal property. There is a location here where the Soc Sec office is in a larger office building, and only the SS office is posted as federal property.

You can consult a lawyer, but I would think you are ok (I am NOT a lawyer, and this is not legal advice).

Zundfolge
February 14, 2006, 07:02 PM
From Colorado's CCW law...

18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions.

(1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. a permit does not authorize the permittee to use a handgun in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. a local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this part 2.
(b) A peace officer may temporarily disarm a permittee, incident to a lawful stop of the permittee. the peace officer shall return the handgun to the permittee prior to discharging the permittee from the scene.

(2) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. page 18-senate bill 03-024

(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:
(a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked.
(b) A permittee who is employed or retained by contract by a school district as a school security officer may carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvement erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school while the permittee is on duty.
(c) A permittee may carry a concealed handgun on undeveloped real property owned by a school district that is used for hunting or other shooting sports.

(4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:
(a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;
(b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and (c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

(5) nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

(6) the provisions of this section apply to temporary emergency permits issued pursuant to section 18-12-209.

I guess I figured that carry onto any "Federal Facility" would be verboten under section (2).

As for schools ... looks like colleges don't count :)


Anyway, I was wondering if in general if the Fed.Gov rents office space in a building does that automatically make the entire building into a "Federal Facility".

Hkmp5sd
February 14, 2006, 07:04 PM
...
(5) FEDERAL PROPERTY.—

(A) IN GENERAL.-Except as provided in subparagraphs (B) through (F), the term ‘Federal property’ means real property that is not subject to taxation by any State or an political subdivision of a State due to Federal agreement, law, or policy, and that is—

(i) owned by the United States or leased by the United States from another entity;

(ii)(I) held in trust by the United States for individual Indians or Indian tribes;

(II) held by individual Indians or Indian tribes subject to restrictions on alienation imposed by the United States;

(III) conveyed at any time under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act to a Native individual, Native group, or village or regional corporation;

(IV) public land owned by the United States that is designated for the sole use and benefit of individual Indians or In?dian tribes; or

(V) used for low-rent housing, as de?scribed in paragraph (10), that is located on land described in subclause (I), (II), (iii) or (IV) of this clause or on land that met one of those descriptions immediately before such property’s use for such housing;

(iii)(I) part of a low-rent housing project assisted under the United States Housing Act of 1937; or

(II) used to provide housing for homeless children at closed military installations pursuant to section 501 of the Stewart B. McKinney Homeless Assistance Act; or

(III) used for affordable housing assisted under the Native American Housing Assistance and Self-Determination Act of 1996; or

(iv) owned by a foreign government or by an international organization.

http://www.sso.org/nafis/IA%20Law2001.htm

I'd say only the office space leased by the IRS meets the requirement to be considered federal property.

Blue Line
February 14, 2006, 07:11 PM
Short answer to your question is - only the IRS office is Fed Property.

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