[UWstudent]

I was at the gun range yesterday shooting my Glock21 and my hearing protection swab thing in my ear fell out (cuz of sweat or whatever), well next round i fired inside the indoor gun range made my right ear ring like hell (and still is) and my hearing is still muffled. do ya'll think this is permanent?

PS: i bought some REAL hearing protection afterwards.. the ear muffin looking ones

[Jim Watson]

Yes it is permanent. You might get used to it, you might recover 98% as the shock wears off, but there is likely some real damage and ear hair cell nerves don't heal.

[Ohen Cepel]

Might be a bit of permanent loss but most of it is probably temporary.

I would be more worried about the rounds you fired before the "thing" fell out. It wasn't doing much good it if was that loose.

On indoor ranges I tend to double up using both plugs and muffs. They always tend to be much louder than outdoors in my experience. Also, if you have a failure like you did or don't have a good seal from glasses with the muffs it helps.

[carlrodd]

I was at the gun range yesterday shooting my Glock21 and my hearing protection swab thing in my ear fell out (cuz of sweat or whatever), well next round i fired inside the indoor gun range made my right ear ring like hell (and still is) and my hearing is still muffled. do ya'll think this is permanent?

PS: i bought some REAL hearing protection afterwards.. the ear muffin looking ones

everything is permanent on some level, when it comes to hearing loss....just maybe not permanent in the way you are thinking. somethings can cause noticeable hearing loss almost immediately, but those would be extreme circumstances....google maybe for examples and what decibals for what duration cause quick loss.

that's another factor...most hearing loss occurs from high decibals over a period of time. all in all, i'd say a few shots without protection does not qualify as something that would be noticeable beyond the initial ringing...the ringing might even last for a day or two. i've had quite a few experiences of 5.56 popping off just feet or even inches away, or going balls out with a 240B, both with no hearing protection. i'm sure those incidents will only add to my cumulative hearing loss overBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP .......so i say to the guy, "i don't even like cheesburgers!" anyway, i really don't think you have anything to worry about. if ringing persists weeks from now, go get a hearing test from the doc. i'm sure you'll be fine.

[hso]

Wait for 72 hours before deciding if the damage is permanent.

The problem with the ear plug falling out is that you didn't put it in properly and that means both were in improperly. Most people don't receive proper instruction in how to do this and don't insert the plugs properly so don't feel that you are any worse off than most of the folks that were shooting also.

Muffs are not "better" protection than plugs. Foam plugs are still the most protective hearing protection you can use, but only if used properly. To insert a foam plug you must gently roll it until it is only something between 1/16th and 1/8th of an inch in diameter. Use the simple yellow cylinder type. To put a plug in your right ear you have to reach over the top of your head with your left hand and pull the top of the right ear up to straighten out your ear canal. You then take the 1/16th diameter foam cylinder with the tips of the fingers of your right hand and insert the plug well into the straightened ear canal. Release the ear and hold the plug in place for a few seconds while it expands. It should then be inserted so that it fits around the kink in the ear canal and fills it. This way it will not fall out and provide the protection required. I like to wear electronic muffs on top of plugs so that I can hear instructions through the plugs and still have the small arms fire noise clipped out.

The other problem with muffs is that we wear safety/shooting glasses with them and the ear pieces cause a gap to be left between the pad of the muff and he head. This allows some of the noise to get through (~5-7 dB) to your ear. Since small arms fire produces roughly 140 dB of noise an NRR 30 muff still lets 110 dB of noise through to your ears (more than is good for them) add the 7 dB for the gap back in and you get an ear busting 117 dB exposure. If you have plugs on properly under the muffs you can get the noise down by the NRR of the plug (say another 30 dB) and if you wear shooting glasses with an elastic band you only let something like 2 dB through the gap.

What's all that mean? You may not have any appreciable permanent damage to your hearing. Whether you do or don't, do not just rely on muffs if you want to protect your hearing use both. Try to use eye protection with a strap instead of ear pieces or make sure the ear pieces are flat and close fitting to your head. Try to leave 3 days between shooting sessions.:)

[Tag]

One or two rounds probably won't cause you any problems that you can't get used to... does that make sense? The ringing will come and go.

Sometimes at night, when it is very quiet, I still get bursts of high pitched ringing on my right side... the side the ejection port is on.

I'm pretty sure my hearing will be shot by the time I retire, but who knows, maybe we'll have cybernetic implants by then.

[PlayboyPenguin]

The latest issue of Guns & Ammo Handguns has a big article about hearing loss.

[Andrew S]

One or two rounds probably won't cause you any problems that you can't get used to... does that make sense? The ringing will come and go.

Sometimes at night, when it is very quiet, I still get bursts of high pitched ringing on my right side... the side the ejection port is on.

I'm pretty sure my hearing will be shot by the time I retire, but who knows, maybe we'll have cybernetic implants by then.

You already have quite a bit of permanent hearing damage. What you describe is tinnitis. I have it myself from listening to loud music too much.

IIRC anything over 130db for a period of 5 minutes or so will cause permanent damage. For every 3db more the time is cut in half. Every 3db you cut off you get twice as much time all the way down to 85db which is considered by most to be the safe level.

Anything that causes pain or discomfort is causing immediate damage. A single shot will cause some damage in most people. Not enough to notice but enough to add up with the rest of the things that cause damage.

[Master Blaster]

WHAT????:uhoh:

Speak up Sonny I cant hear ya.......


Good hearing protection is a must.

[another okie]

Ear plugs are good. The advantages of pairing them with muffs (when you can) is that (1) the two are additive, and (2) some noise is conducted by the bones around the ears, and plugs do nothing to muffle this.

In answer to your original question, yes, you have done some permanent damage, but probably very little, probably less than people do with their earphones cranked up loud on the ipods.

[Kentak]

...I found an empty shotgun shell with a live primer. I put the shell in a vise and hit the primer with a hammer and nail.

I was in an enclosed basement, and, damn, that was a lot louder than I expected it to be. My ears rang for hours. Even today, I have background ringing in my ears more than four decades later. I don't know if that ringing is directly connected to that shotgun shell, but then again, I don't know that it's not.

A question for all the vets-esp WWII and Korea. Did grunts wear ear protection when firing their weopons in combat? Any permanent hearing loss because of that?

K

[Waitone]

You've just been warned. Get obsessive with hearing and eye protection. It will serve you well in the future.

[UWstudent]

thanks everybody

i'll be picking up that guns/ammo mag for that issue on hearing loss right after i get off of work.

thanks again

[carnaby]

Yup, I reccomend doubling up too. I have permanent ringing in my ears (not from shooting) and am ultra paranoid about making it worse.

I had a firecracker go off 2" from my face when I was a kid. My ears rang for a couple days then it went away. If you protect your ears from now on, the ringing will probably subside and not come back. My permanent ear ringing started when I was playing in a band and went to a Tool concert that was too loud. I started using ear plugs whenever I played with the band after that, but it was too late.

Never ever ever ever ever shoot without hearing protection. Plugs are kinda ok for stuff that isn't too loud outdoors in the open, but otherwise use muffs and plugs. I even keep hearing protection at the ready in my closet beside my Kimber in case of bad guys etc.

[carnaby]

hey, are you actually a UW student? I'm in the Aero department. :)

[f4t9r]

I have 85% hearing loss in my right ear.
can not hear a thing on that side. Hearing protection is a must (do not go cheap)

[Legion1776]

Exactly why people should have easy access to suppressors.

[BloodyRAzorBlades]

This is another reason why the government should let us purchase silencers for this sorta thing.....

[hso]

This is another reason why the government should let us purchase silencers for this sorta thing.....
Exactly why people should have easy access to suppressors.

$200 silencer or $1.00 foam ear plugs worn properly? Considering that suppressors only knock off 20-40 dB and that gunfire produces 140 dB you've still got 100 to 120 dB to protect yourself from.

If our young friend quit shooting and got out of the range he can expect to recover 80% within 3 days. Over the next week he will probably recover completely. OTOH hand if he "sucked it up" and continued he may have caused permanent damage (like me).

There have been lots of discussions on hearing protection and noise. The short form of it all is use plugs properly, add muffs on top, don't take chances because successive exposures chip away at your hearing and can result in that never ending ringing and in the loss of your children's voices. http://thehighroad.org/search.php?searchid=1113816

[Standing Wolf]

Speaking strictly as a guy with a ±70% hearing loss: it doesn't cost extra to double up.

[depicts]

Far too many times my ears were unprotected when I shot.

When I had to ask people to repeat themselves, it got annoying.

When I had to pretend that I knew what they were saying, I missed half the conversation.

When I had to get hearing aids I felt like an old man.

Use ear plugs and ear muffs. I particularly like the electronic muffs, so you don't have to take them off to hear someone talking, and don't accidently have a round go off when you don't have your "ears" on.

If you start now and never forget again, you may still be able to hear the blinker in your car when your my age.

[Hook686]

I tend to believe what is lost remains lost to some degree. It is a wise person who protects what he has, rather than try to recover what he has lost. Electronic muffs are a plus in that the sounds below 82 Db can be boosted, while the greater sound levels receive a 24+ Db trim. The use of the foam plugs adds to the protection, while the muffled external softer sounds are boosted. Seems to me the best of both worlds. Botac Tactical has a good price on the Peltor Tactical 7.


http://www.botac.com/peltac7ster.html

[DBR]

One thing I never see discussed on the topic of hearing protection is the "rise time" of the peak sound pressure impulse for a gunshot. From what I have been able to determine it is less than 1MS or one one thousandth of a second. It is so fast that industrial (OSHA) sound measuring equipment can't even see the peak pressure.

My point is that the dirty little secret is that most electronic muffs can't react fast enough to actually snuff the peak pressure which is what does the damage. The use of properly inserted foam plugs or better custom fitted plugs fixes this deficiency. Use the electronic muffs as amplifiers and bone conduction protection so you can hear range commands through the plugs. Do not depend on the muffs for long term hearing protection.

[michakav]

If your ears have experienced ringing and pain, you have lost some part of your hearing. You will recover (98-99%), but be diligent in any future sessions, lest you lose more.

[1911 guy]

The ringing and noticeable loss are very likely temporary and will go away, but a small part of your hearing is gone. Shoot a lot with no protection and that little bit every time adds up fast. As a caution, tinnitus and severe loss can occur suddenly if conditions are right. William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy both suffer from varying degrees of tinnitus caused by a staged explosion on the set of Star Trek. One "BANG" and years of misery. Shatner said once in an interview that the ringing was so loud and constant for years that he actually thought of suicide before seeing a doctor.

[benEzra]

You'll recover most/all of it over time. There may be a small permanent loss, but probably not noticeably. When I was a teenager, a @%#! friend came up behind me and popped one of those bang-snap things less than an inch from my left ear (you know, the little white firecrackers that explode when you drop them). Put me on the ground, and I was totally deaf in that ear for several minutes, and it rang for days. BUT, my hearing in that ear came back, and thanks to careful use of hearing protection (ALWAYS, when hammering, working with power tools, shooting), my hearing now (age 35) is way better than average. No tinnitus whatsoever. And I always, always wear both good plugs AND muffs, even when shooting outdoors.

Still, it would be a good idea to run, don't walk, to your nearest GNC or other nutritional store and buy you a NAC (n-acetyl cysteine) supplement, which has been proven in clinical studies to reduce or halt cochlear cell death following exposure to loud noise (the instant hearing loss is due to temporary threshold shift, but the permanent loss is due to the later death of damaged cells).

[hso]

BUT, my hearing in that ear came back, and thanks to careful use of hearing protection (ALWAYS, when hammering, working with power tools, shooting), my hearing now (age 35) is way better than average. No tinnitus whatsoever. And I always, always wear both good plugs AND muffs, even when shooting outdoors.

Excellent advice. The more we protect our hearing in the noisey tasks we're involved in the more hearing we have. I'm one of those guys on the mower with ear plugs. Fire up the chainsaw? Not without my plugs in. Grab the circular saw, plugs first. Of course I've got my little "alert tone" that never goes away ringing in my right ear to remind me.

Still, it would be a good idea to run, don't walk, to your nearest GNC or other nutritional store and buy you a NAC (n-acetyl cysteine) supplement, which has been proven in clinical studies to reduce or halt cochlear cell death following exposure to loud noise (the instant hearing loss is due to temporary threshold shift, but the permanent loss is due to the later death of damaged cells).
I wouldn't be as definitive about that. Before folks start looking for the magic "hearing protection pill", there is no conclusive proof that any medication or nutritional supplement prevents or recovers damaged cochlear hair cells. I'm never going to tell folks not to do anything that improves their health, including the use of nutritional supplements, but there is nothing definitive about the use of any med to recover hearing loss.

Also, the threshold shift you mention is a just a measurement of how much hearing in what frequencies you've lost. The temporary threshold shift is just that, the measure of the temporary hearing loss experienced after noise exposure while the permanent threshold shift is that part you don't recover after several days.

[UWstudent]

hey, are you actually a UW student? I'm in the Aero department. :)

i'm in LSJ

[Geno]

When firing pistol, I use soft foam inserts AND Remington headphones. When I or anyone else is firing long gun indoor, I use soft foam inserts AND silicone ear plugs over the foam inserts, topped off by the headphones. In other words, minimum double protection, max. triple protection. It is NOT over-kill.

It's amazing how much you can "feel" the blasts/concussion when you can't "hear" them. You want to "test" it some day--try this. Just before you pull the trigger, open your mouth about an inch. It will give you one weird sensation!!! I wouldn't do it often, as you might break a tooth by flying brass, but it will prove the point. There is some serious blast going on.

Best of all, I actually shoot better because I can hardly even hear the gun go off.

Doc2005