CA 30-day waiting period question


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dav
February 15, 2006, 07:34 PM
The question came up about private party sales and the 1 handgun per month law in California.

Everybody 'knows' the law only applies to new, not private party sales. However, someone pointed out that it also applies to interstate sales, that the exemption was only for 'in-state' sales.

Well, I went to the California DOJ site and tried to read the actual law. It appears that 12072(9)(A) sets the 30-day rule and that 12072(9)(B) lists the exemptions.

It does not mention private party sales being exempt.

Am I in the wrong area of the law? Or have they done away with the exemption without telling anyone?

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crazed_ss
February 15, 2006, 11:53 PM
Hmm.. that's a good question.

Might wanna ask over at calguns.

Kruzr
February 16, 2006, 12:29 AM
Anytime a sale goes through an FFL other than a face to face private party transfer, it is the same as buying a new gun in Calif. The gun must be on the approved list and it will be recorded as a dealer sale. You may only DROS one gun per 30 days except a PPT (which is face to face between CA residents.) A PPT cannot be done with an out of state private party.

UberPhLuBB
February 16, 2006, 01:22 AM
Anytime a sale goes through an FFL other than a face to face private party transfer, it is the same as buying a new gun in Calif. The gun must be on the approved list and it will be recorded as a dealer sale. You may only DROS one gun per 30 days except a PPT (which is face to face between CA residents.) A PPT cannot be done with an out of state private party.

Mostly true. You can DROS as many long guns as often as you want, there is no limitation. Only handguns are limited to one per 30 days, and of those PPT handguns are included. That is to say all handgun transfers, PPT, non-PPT, out of state, new, whatever, all of them are limited to one per 30 days. Long guns, go nuts.

Kruzr
February 16, 2006, 01:49 AM
Mostly true. You can DROS as many long guns as often as you want, there is no limitation. Only handguns are limited to one per 30 days, and of those PPT handguns are included. That is to say all handgun transfers, PPT, non-PPT, out of state, new, whatever, all of them are limited to one per 30 days. Long guns, go nuts.
Handgun PPT's are exempt from the 30 day wait. You can also do a PPT while inside the 30 day wait for new gun. All handguns require the 10 day waiting period.

Librarian
February 16, 2006, 02:06 AM
Relevant parts of the Penal Code for 'on the list' appear to be:
12125. (a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who
manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state
for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends
any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail not exceeding one year.

...

12132. This chapter shall not apply to any of the following:
(a) The sale, loan, or transfer of any firearm pursuant to Section
12082 in order to comply with subdivision (d) of Section 12072.

...

12072 (d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's
license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the
transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that
firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.In short, California Penal Code 12125 (a) says 'handgun has to be on the list", 12125 (b) says 'except if a 12072 (d) sale', which is 'neither party has FFL', that is, a private party sale as in 12082.

The 30-day rule code is 12072 (a) (9) (A) No person shall make an application to purchase more than
one pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed
upon the person within any 30-day period.
(B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to any of the following:
(viii) Any transaction conducted through a licensed firearms
dealer pursuant to Section 12082.

dav
February 16, 2006, 12:03 PM
Handgun PPT's are exempt from the 30 day wait. You can also do a PPT while inside the 30 day wait for new gun. All handguns require the 10 day waiting period.
Kruzr, what you are saying here is exactly what I said is "common knowledge" yet appears to no longer be true. There used to be an exemption in 12072(9)(B), but I can no longer find it.

EOD Guy
February 16, 2006, 04:01 PM
Kruzr, what you are saying here is exactly what I said is "common knowledge" yet appears to no longer be true. There used to be an exemption in 12072(9)(B), but I can no longer find it.

It is still there.

(9)(A) No person shall make an application to purchase more than one pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person within any 30-day period.

(B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to any of the following:

(viii) Any transaction conducted through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.

Section 12082 covers the private party sales conducted through a dealer.

dav
February 16, 2006, 04:19 PM
I certainly do not wish to appear rude, EOD Guy, but it is not there.
Here is a link to that section of the code: 12070 thru 12084 (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12070.htm). It is too long to copy here.

12082 mostly deals with how much an FFL can charge, and what they do with the firearm if the transaction cannot be completed for one reason or another.

But thanks for your input!

dav
February 16, 2006, 04:33 PM
Maybe I need to further apologize to EOD Guy. Even Lockyer claims it is there in 12082 (see this notice to dealers (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/9907.pdf)).

But, not being a lawyer, I sure don't see how it can be interpreted to say that.

EOD Guy
February 16, 2006, 05:11 PM
This is what they are talking about.

12082. (a) A person shall complete any sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm through a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071 in accordance with this section in order to comply with subdivision (d) of Section 12072. The seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm shall deliver the firearm to the dealer who shall retain possession of that firearm. The dealer shall then deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, if it is not prohibited, in accordance with subdivision (c) of Section 12072.

That is a private party sale.

dav
February 18, 2006, 12:05 AM
EOD Guy, sorry for my being dense. I think I can see it, now.

I could've sworn it used to just be one of the i-xii thingies actually SAID private party sales were exempt.

Oh well. No wonder everyone agrees about how easy it is to conform to all of our laws these days.

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