ATF Hearing on Gunshow Abuse TODAY 4:00pm


February 16, 2006, 03:57 PM

Oversight hearing about ATF intimidation of promoter and customers of Virginia gun show. 4:00PM eastern today.

Heard about this on another forum, and I intend on checking it out. I think y'all should do the same:)

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February 16, 2006, 04:07 PM
That was yesterday.

February 16, 2006, 04:40 PM
So how did things turn out?

February 16, 2006, 04:53 PM
Congress Critter Jim Sensenbrenner, Chairman of Judiciary Committee offered the following, multiple times. WE ARE NOT HERE TO BUGGYWHIP ATF.

Personally I thought that the use of an oxhide, 20 foot long trail whip would be appropriate to use on the ATF, but then I never held an especially high opinion of that agency. Still don't.

February 16, 2006, 04:53 PM
Oh, the outcome is probably restricted for security reasons. They could tell us, but then they'd have to lock us up. Better not to know. I guess.


February 16, 2006, 05:48 PM
Sorry guys, that I skrewed up on the day. Caused me to miss it to:cuss:
Anyhow, they do have transcripts on that website, and I have seen them posted here as well!

February 17, 2006, 12:18 AM

Try the folowing.

America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization

February 16, 2006

JPFO ALERT: The Farce on Capitol Hill

For those who were unable to watch the BATFE Congressional
Hearings, JPFO has an audio recording available for
download at . We anticipate
aquiring a transcript of the hearing by early next week.

Despite the ostensible purpose of the proceedings -- to
investigate allegations of abuse by ATF agents -- a fair
amount of airtime was spent on the subject of private sales
at gunshows, or "closing the gun show 'loophole'." One
firearms dealer suggested all private sellers be required
to retain a copy of the purchaser's ID, while a Congressman
suggested requiring background checks on all private
purchases. One must question why our leaders find the
private sale of firearms so worrisome...and what they
intend to do about it.

Some additional quotes from the hearing:

"'The problem is 90% black.'" - Annette Gelles (Owner,
Showmaster Gunshows), quoting ATF agents

"Under 30 and black, that's what they're looking for." -
Susan McCoombis (private investigator)

"'We have to do some [residency checks on white buyers]
or we'll catch flack.'" - Susan McCoombis, quoting ATF
agents at Richmond gun show

"Every woman who comes to my table to buy a firearm is
automatically a straw purchaser." - John White (gunsmith)

"I find it very difficult to believe ATF agents were
engaging in racial profiling!" - (Congressman, name

At the end of the hearing, Chairman Roble mentions that the
ATF will be present at a subsequent hearing on the 28th to
answer questions. It is interesting to note, however, that
the Congressional calendar shows no events listed for the
28th, ATF-related or otherwise. Will this future hearing be
public, or a closed-door "inquiry" that is nothing more
than a farce?

Download the file, listen to it, and distribute it widely.
Ask yourself, "Do my representatives really represent ME?"
And then ask yourself, "Aren't I ready for a Bill of Rights
culture?" ( )

- The Liberty Crew

Robert Hairless
February 17, 2006, 03:01 AM
ATF Fact Sheet dated February 15, 2006 (


The joint ATF/state/local law enforcement presence and enforcement activity at gun shows have resulted in the prevention of unlawful sales and the detection of criminal activity, furthering our goal to reduce violent crime. It is common for law enforcement entities to join together and support the effort to reduce violent crime.

ATF’s role, presence and investigative efforts at gun shows throughout the country are effective tools to stem the illegal flow of firearms. A law enforcement presence at gun shows is sometimes necessary when criminals use gun shows as a vehicle to illegally obtain firearms.

Each year, approximately 5000 gun shows are held nationally. From May 2004 through November 2005, ATF conducted criminal investigations at less than 1% of gun shows. Statistics show that the majority of these shows have virtually no ATF contact and the majority of the buyers and sellers abide by all federal rules and regulations.

ATF’s decision to work gun shows was based upon criminal intelligence, law enforcement interviews, and crime gun analysis completed by ATF. This preliminary information revealed that a number of crime guns have connections to gun shows.

Separate investigations, along with the crime gun data have shown that individuals who illegally purchase firearms at gun shows, such as “straw purchasers” and people prohibited from possessing firearms, have not provided truthful information as required by law at the time of purchase. Many of these firearms were recovered by local authorities after they were used in violent criminal acts, such as murder, armed robbery and aggravated assaults.


February 18, 2006, 12:28 PM
Robert Hairless:

Thanks for posting the ATF material, or "fact sheet" as they describe it. Having their version of, or take on their activities at gun shows might be illuminating. It might also prove especially interesting when viewed against their own, record, a record that could be described as "checkered", to say the very least.

The following paraphrase comes to mind, re what seemingly are the tactics they are described as making use of. "Criminals break the law, and so will we, though our motives are more noble". The phrase NOBLESSE OBLIGE comes to mind. I note that, respecting the 15 February hearings, nobody from the ATF rose to deny or to show the falsehood of accusations made, or to refute the quotated remarks of AFT agents. The ATF is scheduled to offer testimony on 28 February, as I understand. That too might prove illuminating.

February 18, 2006, 01:23 PM
"One must question why our leaders find the
private sale of firearms so worrisome...and what they
intend to do about it. "

Simple answer is control.

After much thought, the more complex answer is they have no control over private sales.

"Every woman who comes to my table to buy a firearm is
automatically a straw purchaser." - John White (gunsmith)

I believe this quote is out of context. As I read the article, John White was saying that the BATFE agents were treating them as though they were strawman purchase types.

Regardless, the heat needs to be kept on somehow. Its disapointing that the Reps would harp on it not being a buggywhipping. I'd like to get them into a poker game as they continually show their hands.

Control is the goal,


February 19, 2006, 12:10 PM
Perhaps a but off point, if so, please bear with me on reference to what some would describe as "a tailgate sticker", it was to large to fit on most bumpers.

It read as follows. Mr. Politican, As A Law Abiding Citizen, I Find Myself Curious About The Following. What Might It Be That You Have In Mind, That Causes You To Be So Concerned that I, A Law Abiding Citizen, Please Remember That, Happen To Own Guns, Either Singular Or Plural?

I saw this many years ago, however I find the question to be one of those things that having grasped ones attention, retains same.

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