Walmart, Ammo, Need Lawyer's Advice


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Mike128
February 16, 2006, 06:26 PM
I know this goes with the other thread but I need a lawyer's advice. Talking to the local Walmart Customer Rep he said that taking down the DL information is a State Police request. They, the Maryland State Police, collect the information every couple of months. I assume they are building a data base on who is buying what ammunition. I was lied to by Walmart employees to get my DL information, they said it was a LAW. If I bought ammo anywhere they don't take down this information than I'm breaking the law and can be prosecuted.

Isn't this against some kind of privacy law? How can we find out what this information is collected for? Most importantly how can we get this stopped?

Forgot to add: The manager said this practice will not stop. Please call and write Walmart. We give this up and it will only snowball into a real law.

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Jeff White
February 16, 2006, 06:33 PM
Have you called the Maryland State Police and verified this? Have you contacted your state representative and had him or her ask the state police about it?

It's entirely possible the Wal-Mart rep you spoke to lied to you. Until you know the truth, you can't really plan your next step.

Jeff

Mike128
February 16, 2006, 06:40 PM
I'm not looking to sue. I just want this stopped. I want to see if what Walmart is doing is illegal or not.
But it is a good idea. I'll call the MSP in the morning and find out what they say. Thanks

pcf
February 16, 2006, 06:49 PM
MDSP has no such policy. Nor is it state law. Rest assured that if MDSP had this requirement and and it wasn't law, Walmart's legal staff would be all over it. As soon as I find one, I'll post a simple fill in the blanks letter you can mail to Walmart Corporate Headquarters.

Unless they are taking your SSN without advising you of the Privacy Act of 1974, they aren't violating any privacy laws.

donkey
February 16, 2006, 06:50 PM
There's another, less insidious possibility... around here in Arizona, every so often you'll have do provide ID and sign a log book when buying alcohol from the supermarket... the local authorities force them to do this for a while after they've been busted selling to an underage customer.

It may simply be that the store was caught selling ammunition to someone who was not legally permitted to purchase it, and now has to go through the same sort of deal. It may be more to keep tabs on the store than the purchasers. Hopefully your phone call to the State Police will shed some more light on things.

Mike128
February 16, 2006, 06:51 PM
PCF, Thanks. Looking forward to the letter. The manager called me back and said he will check in with regional. Still calling MDSP tomorrow.

newfalguy101
February 16, 2006, 06:52 PM
As per federal law, the ammo seller is required to ASK if the buyer is of age, the seller is NOT required to get any proof.

I run into this issue at the local Knuckleheadmart, the one guy HATES to see me coming to buy ammo, cuz everytime they ask the question" handgun or long gun?" I answer "doesnt matter, I am over 21" aggravates the heck out of them. The one idiot even tried to tell me that "They require us to track that. "

Maryland could have their own law, best to ask the state police

Highland Ranger
February 16, 2006, 06:58 PM
They do the same thing here in NJ - keep a log of name and address of anyone buying handgun ammo.

I was going to say that if you buy via the web you get around this but I guess you don't because they know where they shipped it and your name from your credit card so they got you any way.

donkey
February 16, 2006, 07:01 PM
To those posting and stating the purchases are logged in other states... is it consistently logged in all stores you purchase from, or only in certain ones (Walmart, Sportsman's Warehouse, Bass Pro Shops, etc)?

Harry Tuttle
February 16, 2006, 07:17 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=30535
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=65064

related walmart hastle:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=71960

pcf
February 16, 2006, 08:28 PM
*****This is based off a letter I wrote to CVS late last year, worked with them, might work with Wally world. Spelling and grammar check a must before sending.
**********
1234 Any Street
City, Maryland, Zip Code
Phone number

February 16, 2006

Walmart Stores, Incorporated
Bentonville, Arkansas 72716

Dear Sirs,

I regularly shop at the Walmart Store in City, Maryland. On Day February 2006, I attempted to buy number of boxes of caliber ammunition. In order to purchase the ammunition I was told by Store Manager name that I would have to provide my Driver's License information. I was told by Store Manager name that the information is being collecting at the request of the Maryland State Police and is a matter of state law. Under Maryland Code, Criminal Law, Title IV. Weapons Crimes, there are no provision requiring that the sales of ammunition be recorded. Nor does the Maryland State Police have the authority to force Walmart Stores to track the sale of ammunition. Nor does Walmart Stores Incorporated have a policy to require that this information be collected.

I appreciate that the Store Manager has taken the initiative to attempt to prevent crime; however, Federal Law already has provisions in place to stop criminals from buying ammunition. Store Manager name's initiative will not prevent crime, and only endangers the security and safety of Walmart's customers' identities. There is no need for Walmart to needlessly collect this information, and if mishandled can be extremely disruptive to the lives of your customers. The Federal Bureau of Investigations regularly reports that identity theft is the fastest growing crime in America, with cost to business and consumers expected to exceed $60 billion this year.

I respectfully request that you stop Store Manager name from engaging in this activity that endagers the safety and security of your customers. I'm a loyal Walmart Customer, but will no longer shop at your stores if this action continues. The Maryland General Assembly and media outlets have been rather abusive of Walmart this past year, I'm positive that this problem will be resolved with no further action on my part.

I would be greatful if you would provide details of any actions your are taking, in writing.

Sincerely



Your Name

TwoGun
February 16, 2006, 09:06 PM
One of the wonderful advantages of living in South Dakota. If I buy ammo at Wal-Mart I get asked the following question:

Paper or plastic? :neener: :neener:

WvaBill
February 16, 2006, 09:10 PM
One of the wonderful advantages of living in South Dakota. If I buy ammo at Wal-Mart I get asked the following question:

Paper or plastic? :neener: :neener:


Lucky you. Our WalMart doesn't have paper.:evil:

SigLaw
February 16, 2006, 09:30 PM
The City of Los Angeles requires ID in a log book and a thumb print. I never buy anything in the City.

BigRobT
February 16, 2006, 09:33 PM
We've had certain Wal-Marts here in MN go off the deep end and attempt to enforce non-existent corporate policies. A quick call to corporate generally got it fixed. 1-800-WALMART. Letters do work, too. Sounds like the manager is on a power trip. The most they do up here is check the date of birth on my ID, even then, it's pretty rare. Guess I'm getting old!! :(

Here's OUR discussion on the WalMart issues with ammo:
http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=641

Highland Ranger
February 16, 2006, 09:55 PM
In response to the question above, I never remember them not taking the information and I recall purchasing ammo at multiple stores, but NOT at Walmart.

These were sporting goods and or gun stores.

Chad
February 16, 2006, 10:42 PM
Gotta love Florida.
Walmart computer cash registers ask the question 'rifle or handgun' as part of the transaction...so the poor clerk has to make a selection.
I've always just told them to pick one...none have ever had a problem with that.
And of course there is never any ID nonsense...I don't look as young as I used to. :rolleyes:

LJWebster1
February 16, 2006, 11:27 PM
I bought handgun ammo at Oshman's a while ago, and the guy tells me "I have to carry it to the cash register, Federal law." I say, "it's not, but whatever, if you want to carry my stuff, go for it. Do you want to carry this ammo box and my cleaning supplies too?" He didn't appreciate that, and went off on me, telling me I didn't know squat. I let him carry all 10 boxes up to the front, then told him he was the one who didn't know squat, given that I buy ammo at a bunch of different places, and none of them require that they carry it to the front. Wal-Mart makes you buy it in the sporting good department, but then you carry it out with you, and Academy just hands over the boxes and lets you get on with your shopping. Then I told him I decided I didn't want to shop at a store that treats its customers like morons and criminals, so I left him holding my ammo. I hate stupid store policies masquerading as "the law."

karlsgunbunker
February 17, 2006, 01:00 AM
Verify the information and call 1-800 Wal-Mart and lodge a complaint.

KGB

Hawkmoon
February 17, 2006, 01:54 AM
Gotta love Florida.
Walmart computer cash registers ask the question 'rifle or handgun' as part of the transaction...so the poor clerk has to make a selection.
I've always just told them to pick one...none have ever had a problem with that.
And of course there is never any ID nonsense...I don't look as young as I used to. :rolleyes:
Wouldn't it be more fun to mess with them on this? Since if you're over 21 it doesn't matter, tell 'em "handgun" for stuff that's clearly rifle ammo, and "rifle" for handgun ammo.

ziadel
February 17, 2006, 02:01 AM
NY wal-marts ask to see a copy of your pistol permit if you are purchasing handgun ammo.


I just lie and tell them its for a rifle or carbine.

John G
February 17, 2006, 02:27 AM
NY wal-marts ask to see a copy of your pistol permit if you are purchasing handgun ammo.


I just lie and tell them its for a rifle or carbine.

Back when I still bought ammo at Wal-Mart, and they asked me that question, I answered: "Submachinegun." :D

Cosmoline
February 17, 2006, 02:29 AM
I suggest you give your business to someone who doesn't make lists of ammo buyers.

Optical Serenity
February 17, 2006, 03:15 AM
Our walmart doesn't write anything down...sometimes depending on what employee you get, they'll request to see the ID...no biggy...

Byron Quick
February 17, 2006, 04:17 AM
Walmart employees seem to have a habit of claiming that store policy is state law. I've had one try to tell me that not selling ammunition after 10 PM was a state law. I simply ask them to give me the number of the statute when they try this...and to see the manager.

S&W 910
February 17, 2006, 04:32 AM
the walmart in tx where i buy ammo they just check my id for age,they dont write anything down

Meplat
February 17, 2006, 05:42 AM
I bought handgun ammo at Oshman's a while ago, and the guy tells me "I have to carry it to the cash register, Federal law."

I LOVE anal retentive businesses like this. Will often go in, designate my desired purchase, make them rumage around in their storeroom, then in the case of a firearm, make them stand by and let me carefully examine it for any blemishes (it's NOT the one I looked at behind the counter, after all) and walk me to the front register, and then "change my mind"....so sorry. All in a very apologetic manner, of course.

Freakin' idiots. Like once I'm past that door, if I'm a homicidal maniac, I couldn't turn around and walk right back in and wreak havoc if I were so inclined. A hundred people a day doing this would make them look a bit closer at the intelligence of their policies.

Ryder
February 17, 2006, 06:09 AM
Rifle or pistol? Tell them it's for a shotgun :evil:

Chad
February 17, 2006, 08:13 AM
Wouldn't it be more fun to mess with them on this? Since if you're over 21 it doesn't matter, tell 'em "handgun" for stuff that's clearly rifle ammo, and "rifle" for handgun ammo.
Heh...shells for my 12ga derringer maybe? :D

AirForceShooter
February 17, 2006, 12:08 PM
with my Gray hair Wal-Mart here in Florida doesn't ask my age.
If they ask hand gun or rifle I just say YES.

AFS

bbrins
February 17, 2006, 10:06 PM
Wal-Mart in Prince Frederick, MD does not log any personal information, they just ask if it is for a rifle or a handgun and occasionally ask to look at your drivers liscense to verify age.

auschip
February 17, 2006, 10:19 PM
I bought handgun ammo at Oshman's a while ago, and the guy tells me "I have to carry it to the cash register, Federal law." I say, "it's not, but whatever, if you want to carry my stuff, go for it. Do you want to carry this ammo box and my cleaning supplies too?" He didn't appreciate that, and went off on me, telling me I didn't know squat. I let him carry all 10 boxes up to the front, then told him he was the one who didn't know squat, given that I buy ammo at a bunch of different places, and none of them require that they carry it to the front. Wal-Mart makes you buy it in the sporting good department, but then you carry it out with you, and Academy just hands over the boxes and lets you get on with your shopping. Then I told him I decided I didn't want to shop at a store that treats its customers like morons and criminals, so I left him holding my ammo. I hate stupid store policies masquerading as "the law."

I think I might have had to go over and checkout some golf clubs once he mentioned he had to carry it, maybe even bought a case of shotgun shells also. "Oh, is that the new Callaway driver sweet! Dang it, I forgot to go look at tents, that stuff must be heavy, want me to see if I can get someone to bring you a cart? Oh before we get the cart, I need to go back and look at skis, yeah I know it is summer aren't you having a sale? You know what, can you go check and see if these shoes are available in a 15? " It would be like having a personal assistant! :evil:

pittspilot
February 17, 2006, 11:19 PM
The nice lady at my neighborhood Walmart pulls out a couple of boxes of the Winchester White Box as I stroll up. Chats to me about the weather, the fishing scene, or any gun sales they have while ringing me up, and puts my stuff in a bag with a reciept.

No muss, no fuss.

luzyfuerza
February 18, 2006, 02:00 AM
Save yourself all the hassle of buying ammo...reload!! You can make ammo that's at least as good as the stuff you buy at WM, and you save money, too! Besides, its a great thing to do on those long cold winter nights...

Firethorn
February 18, 2006, 03:32 AM
The walmart in my local area has the ammo in the sporting goods counter, like pretty much everywhere, but all I have to do is say 'I want that valuepack of 9mm' or whatever else I happen to want, they drop it on the counter, then I continue shopping.

It was hilarious to have a manager hauling the long gun I had just purchased to the front that's unloaded, without scope or sights, when I used my CCW to get by the check, and was carrying at the time.

Berek
February 18, 2006, 03:39 AM
NY wal-marts ask to see a copy of your pistol permit if you are purchasing handgun ammo.


I just lie and tell them its for a rifle or carbine.

Not all. The one in Springville, NY and the one in Olean, NY just make sure I'm old enough (usually one look at the grey in my beard is enough :) )

The only time I have to sign anything (besides when buying a gun) is when I buy reloading powder, but that has to be recorded by the stores...

CajunBass
February 18, 2006, 06:10 AM
As far as I know they don't record anything here in Virginia.

I was buying some 22 ammo not long ago, and the girl was looking at my ID. I said, "I'm over 21." (I'm 53 and look EVERY day of it.) She looked at me funny. I said "It's for a handgun." Another funny look. "That's the next question isn't it?" She laughed, and said "You've done this before haven't you?"

The only gripe I had about the manager carrying out the 22 rifle I got the other day, was that guy moved a LOT faster than I do. :what: SLOW DOWN!

pcf
February 18, 2006, 08:22 AM
I LOVE anal retentive businesses like this. Will often go in, designate my desired purchase, make them rumage around in their storeroom, then in the case of a firearm, make them stand by and let me carefully examine it for any blemishes (it's NOT the one I looked at behind the counter, after all) and walk me to the front register, and then "change my mind"....so sorry. All in a very apologetic manner, of course.

Freakin' idiots. Like once I'm past that door, if I'm a homicidal maniac, I couldn't turn around and walk right back in and wreak havoc if I were so inclined. A hundred people a day doing this would make them look a bit closer at the intelligence of their policies.


That's a great way treat to treat one of the dwindling number of retailers who assume the risk and liabilities of selling firearms. I'm sure you are perfectly aware that stores are responsible for the safety and security of people on their property. Stores have to take "reasonable" precautions to ensure the safety of people on their property. Walking you out of the store is a "reasonable" precaution.

X, Y and profits. Stores make "X" amount of money on firearms sales, they spend "Y" amount on manpower, floor space, insurance, inventory, etc. "X" - "Y" equals profits, if it is a small number or a negative number firearms sales go away. Wasting a stores time and money on whatever misguided scheme you have, will get a store to review their policies and practices, and the decision will be "no more firearms sales".

U.S.SFC_RET
February 18, 2006, 09:42 AM
Someone in Md must of resolved something because I purchased 200 rounds of WWB at aberdeen.45 with no problems at all. I did ask the guy for 45 cal and he said that he was out and then I pointed to him 100 rds WWB and 100 rds remington.

Molon Labe
February 18, 2006, 09:49 AM
And you shop at Wal-Mart because...? :confused:

RaySendero
February 18, 2006, 10:22 AM
Walmart employees seem to have a habit of claiming that store policy is state law. I've had one try to tell me that not selling ammunition after 10 PM was a state law. I simply ask them to give me the number of the statute when they try this...and to see the manager.

Byron,

I too, have wondered where some of these employees come up with this SXxT. You would think that a company the size of Walmart would have employee training programs especially for sporting goods regarding ammo and firearms that would inform and help assist customers.

Asked a Walmart employee once "Why they did not stock a some 28 gauge shotgun shells?". His answer was that 28 gauge shells were illegal to sell in this state. Now I know better than to argue with an idiot - so I didn't!

My point is that I don't believe the store (or another employee) trained him to give this answer - Think he just made it up on the spot. Do believe Walmart trains employees to help customers and if they don't know the answer to your question, try to get you an answer. This guy didn't do that he just made one up!

I should have challenged him on this in front of his boss - Oh well live and learn - I will next time!

nico
February 18, 2006, 12:03 PM
Mike, the people at that wal mart were full of it. I've purchased ammo at 2 wal marts, a few gun shops, and outdoor world in this state and have never had anyone attempt to take down my driver's license info. I've been carded plenty of times, but they just check the age and ring me up. I think in your situation I'd call the manager on being a liar and tell him my money would be going somewhere else from now on.

CajunBass
February 18, 2006, 01:37 PM
And you shop at Wal-Mart because...? :confused:

Because I want to.

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