Getting darn serious down on the border..


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bg
February 16, 2006, 08:54 PM
If this doesn't sound like an Iraq terrorist op, what does ? Only
thing missing was a bomber. We are going to end up in an
out and out campaign-military action right down south ! >
http://www.yahoo.com/s/273338

Last week gunmen burst into the offices of the daily El Manana newspaper in Nuevo Laredo, across the Rio Grande from Laredo, Texas, tossing a smoke grenade into the lobby and raking the newsroom with automatic weapons fire.

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Fly320s
February 16, 2006, 08:58 PM
I guess that those guys didn't receive their Sunday edition.:eek:

Biker
February 16, 2006, 09:07 PM
It'll come this side of the border. No doubt. However, multiculturalism is always good and after all, they're only coming here to do the work that Americans won't do. Such as shooting up newspaper offices, building tunnels used to smuggle drugs and people into the US...
Biker

Maxwell
February 16, 2006, 09:20 PM
I can see why Mexicans are running like hell for the border, but sooner or later someones going to give chase from that side and run into our side.

What do we do if theres no "war" but people are shooting at us with full auto weapons?
Is it legal to shoot back, at what could possibly be the mexican military? :uhoh:

Bigreno
February 16, 2006, 09:27 PM
What do we do if theres no "war" but people are shooting at us with full auto weapons?
Is it legal to shoot back, at what could possibly be the mexican military?

Where would this NOT be legal? Yes you can engage anyone attempting to take your life. Foreign military receives no special privilages.

Just know in doing so you will be in every news paper and your face will be on CNN for weeks to come. Oh, and the S will definitely HTF.

Fletchette
February 16, 2006, 09:32 PM
I can see why Mexicans are running like hell for the border, but sooner or later someones going to give chase from that side and run into our side.

What do we do if theres no "war" but people are shooting at us with full auto weapons?
Is it legal to shoot back, at what could possibly be the mexican military? :uhoh:

What do we do? Shoot back! This has certain ramifications, of course. As long as Washington ignores this, it is de facto admission of secession of U.S. territory. Just as most of the north of Pakistan is not really Pakistan, most of our southern border will not be part of the U.S.

The problem is not the honest immigrants (probably most of them); if I were in their shoes I'd do everything to get into the U.S. also! The problem is the globalists in Washington that do not mind losing U.S. territory under the premise that 'we are all citizens of the world'. :barf:

And of course, re-establishing a slave-class is certainly going to help their stock's profitability.


The solution is to put the military on the border and then establish a dozen "Ellis Islands" where immigrants can be legally admitted into the U.S. This isn't going to happen with the current power miesters (R or D).

Janitor
February 16, 2006, 09:34 PM
Is it legal to shoot back, at what could possibly be the mexican military?
Yes - as long as you don't mind being branded a racist and a vigilante.

Standing Wolf
February 16, 2006, 09:39 PM
┐Que? ┐Jorge has a plan, no?

bearmgc
February 16, 2006, 10:12 PM
Geez, wonder if its hurting tourism...like I want to cross the border south for any reason.:cuss:

22-rimfire
February 16, 2006, 10:19 PM
Sounds like gang violence in Neuvo Laredo. Hope it stays on that side. I hear this is becoming more of a problem in a lot of the border cities. More reason to build a wall and man it with machine guns.

Bartholomew Roberts
February 16, 2006, 10:34 PM
Gangs pretty much own Nuevo Laredo. However, I would worry more about when Nuevo Laredo gets quiet. That will be the sign that one gang has consolidated power there and is now ready to expand to new territory.

Art Eatman
February 16, 2006, 10:55 PM
Folks in Mexico in the various neighborhoods in any city, know the names of who is doing what to whom, or who dunnit to somebody. No secrets. Too many people who are not at work, who are "just lookin'" out a window.

Newspaper reporters know this, and a few of the braver souls put the complete stories together. That's dangerous to the Bad Guys if such information gets published, because it then gets some amount of Official Attention. So, intimidate the publisher/editor/reporters. Death or the threat of death.

Not at all unusual, al otro la'o del Rio Bravo...

Art

Merkin.Muffley
February 16, 2006, 11:05 PM
Step 1 - implement the Bush plan to give the 11-12 million of them here amesty.

Step 2 - let them vote.

CentralTexas
February 16, 2006, 11:54 PM
It'll come this side of the border. No doubt. However, multiculturalism is always good and after all, they're only coming here to do the work that Americans won't do. Such as shooting up newspaper offices, building tunnels used to smuggle drugs and people into the US...
Biker

+1

gunsmith
February 17, 2006, 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by Biker
It'll come this side of the border. No doubt. However, multiculturalism is always good and after all, they're only coming here to do the work that Americans won't do. Such as shooting up newspaper offices, building tunnels used to smuggle drugs and people into the US...
Biker

Most Americans are just to lazy to spray the local newspaper lobby with machine gun fire...:evil:
as far as jobs that we won't do they are paying 15 an hour in Napa county to grape pickers, who are all illegal, if your not an illegal you don't get the job.
15 an hour tax free!
that buys a whole lot in Mexico and even here in the USA it can go pretty far in some states

Hawkmoon
February 17, 2006, 12:44 AM
What do we do if theres no "war" but people are shooting at us with full auto weapons?
Is it legal to shoot back, at what could possibly be the mexican military? :uhoh:
Self-defense be self-defense. The law says if you are in fear for your life you are entitled to employ lethal force in self-defense. Dunno if TX, AZ and NM have "duty to retreat" laws on the books, but those usually stipulate that you mucy attempt to retreat if you can do so in safety. Since you likely can't do that if the other side has a Hummer-mounted ma deuce -- lock and load.

Maxwell
February 17, 2006, 01:03 AM
I personaly think we're looking at the modern incarnation of slavery.
These people come with nothing, work for a pittance, and cost their employers zero so far as insurance or benefits go.

I dont blame the Mexicans so much as the greedy businessmen who tempt these people into this mess. Those employers are going to get hooked on the money, and thats helping to drive this lax policy.
I also think that for an immigrant to do so much for so little, youve got a human disaster on thier side that we dont know enough about.

Whatevers driving them out is bound to follow them north.

I know that all hell will break loose if our civilians shoot on their military when its mercing itself out to the drug dealers, but will the law protect our people from being jailed over whats bound to be an international incident?
What happens if it expands beyond a few shootings, and we still dont have an appropriate number of troops there?

Nematocyst
February 17, 2006, 05:12 AM
This is one reason I moved north from NM almost seven years ago.

Not that it was this bad then, but the writing was already on the wall ...

Nem

El Tejon
February 17, 2006, 07:31 AM
Iraqi terrorist op?:confused: War?:confused: You guys really can't be serious?

This is just another day on the border. Walter Mitty delusions to the contrary, there is no coming invasion.:rolleyes: The US-Mexico border has always been dangerous and will always be dangerous.

Maxwell
February 17, 2006, 08:14 AM
Not all borders are dangerous.
Its been a risky place to live because of a deterriorating nation to the south, a market for below minimal wage workers to the north, and a drug war throwing gasoline on the fire.

Lets not forget theres other forces out there that would pay anything to see Americans come to harm, and there you have a mass of people willing to do anything for a buck... I dont think this situations going to smolder indefinatly.

armoredman
February 17, 2006, 08:45 AM
The border has always been dangerous - i used to work right at the border for a while.
It is getting worse, but there is no chance in Hades Mexico's Military could invade - the Texas State Guard alone could hold them off. We'll mobilize the Confederate Air Force, and a couple of VFW posts, and we'll be good....

Bartholomew Roberts
February 17, 2006, 09:18 AM
Most Americans are just to lazy to spray the local newspaper lobby with machine gun fire...:evil:

Not to mention you'd threaten more American reporters spraying the corner bar than you would the local newspaper office

V4Vendetta
February 17, 2006, 10:35 AM
This is one of the reasons I will NEVER go to Mexico. It might be pretty in some areas but I wouldn't want to go. Next to the drug operations down there, kidnapping is the number two illegal business. Someone is kidnapped every 30 minutes & the things they do to folks who won't pay or can't* pay, the MPAA won't let them show in our R rated films. I believe that says something in a culture where movies like "Saving Private Ryan", "The Godfather" & such are very gorey and yet they are very popular movies. One guy in Mexico, got both of his ears sliced off:what: . They were reattached later when he was rescued but you must know that the kidnappers didn't give him any morphine or such when they removed his ears.

As far as the police are concerned, I'm reminded of a quote from "Key Largo". "Those who aren't bought are intimidated. Those who weren't intimidated were murdered." I read on www.crimelibrary.com once where one city in Mexico went without a sheriff for several months because no one wanted the job. One guy decided that he wasn't scared so he took the job. Just 6 hours later he was leaving the office to go home. They parked in front of him so he couldn't go anywhere & shot him over 200 times. The killers have yet to be arrested.:rolleyes:


*That's me.

mbs357
February 17, 2006, 10:49 AM
Stop the presses!
:uhoh:

TallPine
February 17, 2006, 10:58 AM
15 an hour tax free!
that buys a whole lot in Mexico and even here in the USA it can go pretty far in some states
The city of Billings is advertising a senior accountant position at the airport ("CPA preferred") that only pays $15/hr :banghead:

CentralTexas
February 17, 2006, 11:07 AM
The border has always been dangerous - i used to work right at the border for a while.
It is getting worse, but there is no chance in Hades Mexico's Military could invade - the Texas State Guard alone could hold them off. We'll mobilize the Confederate Air Force, and a couple of VFW posts, and we'll be good....


It will be the old joke about the Texas Rangers sending one ranger to stop a riot. When question was he alone the Ranger said "Well it's just the one riot isn't it?"
CT

Maxwell
February 17, 2006, 02:02 PM
there is no chance in Hades Mexico's Military could invade

Invade as to come on to American turf and capture/hold largs ammounts of territory in an organized manner?

No, probly not.
A strait up attack is not in their interest, and it would be easily fended off by our military if not with some militia involvement too.

Im not worried about an organized military operating on official orders. Im worried about one that hasnt been paid for a few weeks going to merc itself out for quick cash.

Drug prohibition has put alot of money in the wrong hands, it pays for alot of evil. I can see things like small and regular cross border firefights, smash and grabs, hostage taking, etc...
I can see a drug dealer paying hired guns and using them to distract border control or eliminate problematic officers and maybe even civilian spotters.

It wouldnt be a "War", just a rich criminal paying despirate soldiers to keep an illegal trade corridor open.
Hows it look on our side? Lots of people shooting at us and no military response for a law enforcement problem...

emc
February 17, 2006, 02:35 PM
Good article here on longer term intentions on the part of the Mexicans and their fellow travelers. :fire:

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21309


Worth reading, IMHO.

FWIW,

emc

woerm
February 18, 2006, 12:42 AM
Herr B Roberts

ya owe me a new keyboard

>>Not to mention you'd threaten more American reporters spraying the corner bar than you would the local newspaper office

If the Mex Army arrives north of the Rio Bravo in force

it will be met with just about everything from the CAF to the local scout troops.

result Mex will probably lose most of their northern tier of states this time. or become a few counties of TX, NM and AZ

I think we might give them back LA though in trade the gun law there closely mirror Mex's law anyway.

naa, I guess we can add some counties to CA as well.

r

dm1333
February 18, 2006, 01:55 AM
Tallpine,
15 bucks an hour in Mendocino county, where I live, means you are poor, very poor. The average price of a house here is over 500,000$, in Sonoma county it has topped 600K. And we aren't talking mansions either, just normal houses. Somebody making that kind of money here generally rides a cheap bike to work and lives in an aluminum house with a swamp cooler on top.

longeyes
February 18, 2006, 01:57 AM
Drug prohibition has put alot of money in the wrong hands, it pays for alot of evil. I can see things like small and regular cross border firefights, smash and grabs, hostage taking, etc...
I can see a drug dealer paying hired guns and using them to distract border control or eliminate problematic officers and maybe even civilian spotters.

I think you forgot the banks and local political hacks.

Malone LaVeigh
February 18, 2006, 12:17 PM
I argued some time ago here or on TFL, I don't remember, that it is in out best self interest to do everything we can economically to make life better for Mexicans on their side of the border. Of course, everyone accused me of being a bleeding-heart pinko. But the fact is that human nature is human nature, and market forces are real and as long as things are a lot better over here than they are over there, there will be an irresistable force pushing bodies, contraband and trouble our way. Think of it as a human analog of osmosis. Movement across a semi-permeable barrier along a gradient, in this case, of human misery. The greater the gradient, less effective is the barrier.

And what do you think this will mean to us when things REALLY hit the skids on both sides of the border? I picture Oklahoma in the 1930s with narco-terrorists replacing the local bootlegger and MS13 replacing Bonnie and Clyde.

Its been a risky place to live because of a deterriorating nation to the south,
created by and to the benefit of the Mexican oligarchy.
a market for below minimal wage workers to the north,Maintained by the powers north of the border.
and a drug war throwing gasoline on the fire.Artificially created by stupid laws and benefiting no one but the same players as the other two points.

longeyes
February 18, 2006, 12:36 PM
You can't "make things better" on the Mexican side of the border so long as the same types run that country and the same social values prevail. We've been doing a lot of trade with Mexico for a long time. If they wanted to emulate us they would have. They don't lack money, they lack the desire to have the kind of society we think they should have.

The same can be said for the Middle East. How many trillions of dollars have passed through those governments? And yet 70 per cent of the people are illiterate? Why? By design, by desire.

The U.S. needs to take care of its own first--and we're not doing that good a job of doing that. Things seem "okay" now but look out a few years and see how rosy the picture really is.

Maxwell
February 18, 2006, 01:09 PM
They don't lack money, they lack the desire to have the kind of society we think they should have.

They got desire, what they also have is a long term corruption sitting on their chest that will prevent any given money from having the intended effect. Its alot harder to take care of our own when our neighbors are dumping their problems on us, profiting from our misery in the drug war, and stealing what money we hand out for their improvement.

Im wondering if a controlled "kick over the anthill" approach would work better in the end.
Stop aiding the failed system, let it collapse and crush the bad eggs, then pump a bunch of high level business minded folks into key parts of their new government for long term reform.

You would have hell on the border for a few years, but at least things stand a chance of slowly getting better instead of worse.

Sindawe
February 18, 2006, 01:13 PM
The U.S. needs to take care of its own first--and we're not doing that good a job of doing that. Things seem "okay" now but look out a few years and see how rosy the picture really is. Oh, the U.S. is "taking care" of its own, make no doubt about that. The problem is that the U.S. is "taking care" of its own in the same fashion that Annakin Skywalker "took care" of the Trade Federation at the behest of his Master in the most recent Star Wars flic. By permitting large numbers of illegal aliens into the nation wages are driven down, the culture is changed and the social fabric of the nation comes to resemble that in Mexico. A few folks with LOTS AND LOTS of money sitting on top, and LOTS AND LOTS of folks with little money on the bottom, folks who are easily exploited and will take the crumbs they can get 'cause they are desperate, have families to support and bills to pay.

Biker
February 18, 2006, 01:18 PM
You might find this article interesting.

www.rense.com/general69/why.htm

Biker

Sindawe
February 18, 2006, 01:55 PM
Thanks for the link. Yes, indeed interesting. IIRC, Frosty is located just east of me, I may have to drop him a note. Meat packing plants paid $18.00 an hour with benefits in the early 80s. Americans filled those jobs. Today, illegal aliens work at $7.00 an hour with no benefits. No complaints, either. Corporate employers work millions of illegals off the books as if they don't exist-voila!-no taxes are paid on cash payments. $18.00/hr was VERY good money in the early 1980s. Even today, its enough for ONE person to live comfortably and still put away for a rainy day (I know 'cause its about what I earn). $7.00 is NOT.

In years past, I used to find the image below rather silly. Seeing whats happening in this nation these days, its becoming to look more and more like a reasonable response.

http://www.recreativofc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/eat-the-rich.gif

Biker
February 18, 2006, 02:01 PM
I know that I'm getting pissed. Just don't know exactly what to do about it.:mad:
Write, fax, call and vote. Futile excersise to be sure, but it rasps the soul to give up without a fight.
Biker

Maxwell
February 18, 2006, 02:01 PM
Interesting read Biker.
It reinforces what I already suspect, that illegal immigration is the new form of slavery and these "employers with jobs americans dont want" are addicted to the money their making from the immigrants.

...if I recall, the last broadly accepted slavery in america ended with one nasty civil war and 100+ years of continued unrest.

bg
February 18, 2006, 02:37 PM
After the U.S. became more concerned about illegal immigration following the 9/11 attack, the Mexican consulates were ordered to promote the matricula consular—a card that simply identifies the holder as a Mexican—as a way for illegals to obtain privileges that the U.S. usually reserves for legal residents. The consulates started aggressively lobbying American governmental officials and banks to accept the matriculas as valid IDs for driver’s licenses, checking accounts, mortgage lending, and other benefits.
From the article emc provided above. Just isn't right. Not right at all.
Like a cancer it just keeps growing and growing.

tom barthel
February 19, 2006, 07:36 PM
If these men are employed as military, it is an invasion. If it is just an armed drug gang, it is an invasion. It can be watered down and called a gang activity. It can be called a dispute among illegal immigrants. The effect is the same. ARMED FOREIGN INTRUDERS ARE CHALANGING OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS ON AMERICAN SOIL. They should be resisted by all means available. If the U.S. government doesn't want to protect America then give us back OUR money so we can hire our own military.:( :(

Kodiaz
February 19, 2006, 08:00 PM
Yeah this crap makes me mad to. And this is moving up the ladder now people that went to college don't make money either. What caliber for leftist socialist elitists? Nevermind I can answer that on my own.:fire: :fire:

Jim Diver
February 19, 2006, 08:15 PM
Reminds me of this. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0786018089/sr=8-6/qid=1140397677/ref=sr_1_6/103-9483557-9756609?%5Fencoding=UTF8) Its a good read... Not the best, but good.

The_Shootist
February 19, 2006, 10:25 PM
....when the Minuteman are down on the border are they armed? I mean, what happens if you see Mexican troops roaming across the border. Sees like a "shoot first, ask questions later" scenario.

Then let the Mexican gov't deal with the ball in THEIR court....explaining how the bodies in uniform got on the wrong side of the border. :evil:

crazed_ss
February 19, 2006, 10:49 PM
The minutemen are supposed to be observing and reporting so I doubt they'd risk their lives by firing on a humvee with a .50 cal mounted with their handguns.

Fletchette
February 20, 2006, 12:30 AM
The city of Billings is advertising a senior accountant position at the airport ("CPA preferred") that only pays $15/hr :banghead:

Yet another twist on the situation. "No Taxation without Representation" can also mean, "No Representation without Taxation".

As more and more of the labor in this country is done by people who are paid cash and do not pay taxes, the less and less political clout they have. This really is the re-establishment of a slave class.

Think about it. Will a Senator care about your opinion if you make $15/hr and do not pay taxes, or will he listen to the lobbyists of multi-national corporations who give him millions?

In my opinion, way too much foreign money gets into our politics than we know. Just think of the loopholes multinational corporations can use. Is it really surprising that our government doesn't give a damn about U.S. citizens?

Malone LaVeigh
February 20, 2006, 01:01 AM
Quote:
The U.S. needs to take care of its own first--and we're not doing that good a job of doing that. Things seem "okay" now but look out a few years and see how rosy the picture really is.

Oh, the U.S. is "taking care" of its own, make no doubt about that. The problem is that the U.S. is "taking care" of its own in the same fashion that Annakin Skywalker "took care" of the Trade Federation at the behest of his Master in the most recent Star Wars flic. By permitting large numbers of illegal aliens into the nation wages are driven down, the culture is changed and the social fabric of the nation comes to resemble that in Mexico. A few folks with LOTS AND LOTS of money sitting on top, and LOTS AND LOTS of folks with little money on the bottom, folks who are easily exploited and will take the crumbs they can get 'cause they are desperate, have families to support and bills to pay.
And that's my point. Equilibrium will be reached, one way or the other. Would y'all rather it be through raising their standard of living or lowering ours? I know what Bush and his mob would prefer.

Koobuh
February 20, 2006, 05:12 AM
"No Representation without Taxation".

Que?
One of the more noisome issues regarding illegal immigration is that illegals are voting, and a lot of people are pushing to keep bad voting systems in place so the block will continue to have clout.

belton-deer-hunter
February 20, 2006, 12:02 PM
here in central texas i know many bussiness that hire illegal aliens they charge the workers money to work and use fake S.S.# so that they pay taxes but never collect and this makes the government happy they collect and never pay and if anyone ever looks at the records the taxes were payed see this keeps everyoone on the up and up now that that is said you can see why big comnpanys like illegals they make money by paying cheaper wages and can make thge workers pay them to work. this not only brings down wages but also citys here my grandmother died a copule years agoi and my aunt got her house adn sold it to illegals now there are 4 or 5 cars parked out front and the house is going to the dogs (put nicely) the neighbor hood is no longer as nice as it was and i think that we jsut need to carpet bomb mexico and fix the problem for once and all

longeyes
February 20, 2006, 12:38 PM
Too much foreign money in our politics? Well, we are all becoming foreigners to the poohbahs of D.C., whose Grand Establishment treats Americans as a colony. We are slowly transitioning from citizens to subjects.

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