Mini-14 Accuracy


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ConserVet
February 17, 2006, 04:30 AM
I've been wanting a Mini-14 for years. I like the military-style rifles, and .223 is cheap to shoot. I know quite a few people who own them though, and none of them are impressed with the Mini's accuracy. Is there something they're doing wrong, like ammo selection, or are Mini-14s inherently inaccurate?

I don't expect it to be a sniper rifle, but is something wrong with these things?:confused:

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twoblink
February 17, 2006, 06:17 AM
Do a search on this board and TFL, and you will find literally HUNDREDS of comments on the Mini's accuracy.

Tighten the everything on the gun, and that will reduce your groupings by 50% :evil:

As far as accuracy, there are postings about how to make a sub-MOA mini-14. So if need be, it can be made as accurate as you need. But on the whole? I agree.. it's not that accurate out of the box. Little (low cost/free) tweaks are available to increase their accuracies.

shermacman
February 17, 2006, 06:35 AM
Wait till you see what happens to your nice, tight groups as the stock barrel warms up...:eek: By the time you upgrade and replace everything that needs upgrading and replacing, you can buy a decent AR.

Geno
February 17, 2006, 06:59 AM
I called Ruger and asked what was wrong with it? They said "Nothing! That's fully acceptable accuracy." :what: Remember, ALL of my other rifles at that time were Rem M700Vs in .223, .22-250, 6MM Rem. So, for me, that was just appalling! I sold it and never looked back. A few years later, I bought my first M1A, w/ oversized stock and stainless heavy National match barrel. That was when I first came to understand that semi-auto can be both accurate and reliable. But, those cost a bit more than the Mini-14. It's just a "cheap" imitation. Buy the real thing. Or to put it more effectively--if they bad guy's outside your door, who you gonna call:

http://springfield-armory.com/images/rifles/SA9502Large.jpg

:D

Doc2005

PinnedAndRecessed
February 17, 2006, 07:54 AM
I've been wanting a Mini-14 for years. I like the military-style rifles, and .223 is cheap to shoot. I know quite a few people who own them though, and none of them are impressed with the Mini's accuracy. Is there something they're doing wrong, like ammo selection, or are Mini-14s inherently inaccurate?

I don't expect it to be a sniper rifle, but is something wrong with these things?:confused:

It's fine for the purpose for which it was designed. You get what you pay for. I have a mini-30. I use Wolf ammo. It's not a tack driver. It is a hunting rifle for thick cover in the woods. It's also a plinker.

Enjoy it as such. It's fun, cheap to own, and cheap to feed.

Tomac
February 17, 2006, 08:23 AM
Apparently bbl harmonics have a lot to do with it. Cutting the bbl back or even just adding a muzzle brake/FH can really improve group size. Good info on it here: http://perfectunion.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=86
HTH...
Tomac

jagdpanzer347
February 17, 2006, 09:33 AM
I look at the Mini as kind of a modern day M1 carbine. It's fun to shoot and with factory mags quite reliable. However, if you want a SHTF rifle in .223 get an AR15. The difference in price on full capacity magazines will make up for the difference in price on the rifle. Just my .02.
-jagdpanzer

benEzra
February 17, 2006, 01:02 PM
Out of the box, no, mini-14's are inherently rather inaccurate. I own a 188-series Ranch Rifle, and the best group I have ever gotten is 5.5" at 100 yards, from a rest and rear bag. I tried Winchester 69-gr match rounds once, just to see if it would do any better, and it didn't.

If you want accuracy, an AR-15 would be a better choice (inherently a much more accurate design), and they're not much more expensive than a mini.

45crittergitter
February 17, 2006, 01:14 PM
Mine is minute-of-paper-plate.:o

AZ Jeff
February 17, 2006, 01:44 PM
I called Ruger and asked what was wrong with it? They said "Nothing! That's fully acceptable accuracy." :what: Remember, ALL of my other rifles at that time were Rem M700Vs in .223, .22-250, 6MM Rem. So, for me, that was just appalling!
Actually, 3" at 100 yards is pretty good for ANY "non-accurized" self loading rifle. If you compare a bolt action to a self-loader, you should NOT EXPECT similar accuracy.

colt.45
February 17, 2006, 02:07 PM
true, it isnt very accurate, but there are remedies and no they wont build up to the cost of an ar-15. the first thing you can do is buy some kind of muzzle accessory, it is a military rifle and the barrel looks kinda dorky being so short, so i would pick an m-14 style flash hider. this is supposed to cut your groups by 1/2 or at least close 2.5moa aint that bad

if you want more inexpensive accuracy, you can tourque the gas block. to do this get the CORRECT sised hex wrench and unscrew the gas block screws. now, insert the long end into the hexbolt and tighten until you think "hey this kinda hurts" you wont see much accuracy improvement with this one untill you get the barrel hot, it cuts down on the vertical stringing.

there also is a thing you can make on your own or wait untill it is being mass produced. it is called the accu-strut its a tube that clamps onto the barrel to stop barrel whip.

with all of these mod's it is claimed by many that you can get 1.5 moa. there will always be the problem of that damn skinny barrel, just don't shoot so fast.

if more accuracy is desired i suggest buying a custom barrel, and getting it glass bedded.

here are some links:
http://perfectunion.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=106
http://www.accustrut.com/

IrvJr
February 17, 2006, 03:04 PM
Supposedly, the addition of a barrel strut is a low cost way to improve a mini's accuracy. Check out this website for a product that is being developed by a member of the www.perfectunion.com forum,

http://www.accu-strut.com/

My mini seems to provide good plinking accuracy, probably about 6 MOA using the iron sights at 100 yards.

benEzra
February 17, 2006, 03:12 PM
Actually, 3" at 100 yards is pretty good for ANY "non-accurized" self loading rifle. If you compare a bolt action to a self-loader, you should NOT EXPECT similar accuracy.
Not all mini's will do 3". Mine has never done better than 5.5", even with premium ammunition and optics.

Most AR's are better than 3" out of the box, with good ammunition and optics.

1911user
February 17, 2006, 03:34 PM
Most AR's are better than 3" out of the box, with good ammunition and optics.

With a free-float handguard most basic ARs will easily reach 1-2 MOA with good ammo. The ease of barrel changes is another nice feature. Whomever came up with the pre-headspaced barrel was a genius; it makes it easy to be modular.

Car Knocker
February 17, 2006, 03:37 PM
Is it legal to use the terms "Mini-14" and "accuracy" in the same sentence? :evil:

Just kidding!

bowfin
February 17, 2006, 04:10 PM
Whether a Mini-14 is accurate enough depends on what you are going to do with it. If you never get off the bench at the range, it is probably not the rifle for you. Doing that, you will want something that makes tiny little groups to make a good impression on everybody. So the first question is, what do you plan on doing with the rifle?

I used mine to trudge through snow along the shelterbelts to flush jackrabbits and shoot them for sausage. I don't how a sub MOA rifle would have worked better for me, it wasn't a sub MOA job I was doing.

Prairie Dog hunting, I don't think the Mini-14 would be much fun, they are a sub MOA type target. It would be passable as a coyote rifle, but not be considered a "serious" one like a .22-250 Varmint rifle to pay for gas money.

Self defense is best handled by other guns, I won't go into that.

However, a sub MOA rifle is no heavier to carry while jackrabbit hunting than a 3 MOA rifle. An MOA or subMOA rifle usually will cost more, but getting the best you can afford is always a good policy. A Mini-14 was the best I could afford at the time.

steve4102
February 17, 2006, 06:45 PM
It has been suggested here quite a few time already, but, slip on over to the "perfectunion" and get to know these guys. They can help you get your mini on target for very little $$$. The number one item to accurize the mini is no different than any other rifle, "Bed The Action". This is the first step and it will control the fliers.
I also installed this barrel stabilizer http://www.henrich3.com/biathalon_stabilizer.htm on my mini-30 and I do have a MOA mini.

Tomac
February 17, 2006, 07:38 PM
If you want a SHTF rifle in .223 get an AR15. The difference in price on full capacity magazines will make up for the difference in price on the rifle. Just my .02.
-jagdpanzer

The new & highly regarded ProMag 30rd Polymer Mini-14 mags are $10.86 each at Natchez. I've personally experienced and witnessed too many problems w/the AR platform to ever trust it (YMMV). Ever try to clear a double feed jam in an AR?... :barf:
Tomac

Beemerguy53
February 17, 2006, 08:25 PM
My Mini-14 is absolutely reliable, fits me very well, has a good trigger, and is easy to clean...but it is not that accurate. I would grab it in a heartbeat for defending myself or the homestead, but when I want to spend a day at the range punching little groups in paper, I take my AR-15 HBAR, my M1-A, or my Steyr Scout Rifle (which is, by the way, astoundingly accurate, easily sub-MOA).

BTW, I agree with Shermacman, who pointed out that by the time you spend what it takes to make a Mini-14 what it was never intended to be (a tack driver) you will have spent enough to buy an AR or a good bolt-action rifle.

colt.45
February 17, 2006, 08:43 PM
you guys are underestimating the accuracy of the ar. most stock ars are easily 1moa guns, and a good majority of them are .75 moa. i can shoot a .85 group out of my dads stock colt ar-15 with good optics when i try hard.

student
February 17, 2006, 10:45 PM
If you always wanted a mini-14, then by all means get one. I suggest looking for a lower priced older model, stainless is my preference. What is wrong with it is that the rear sight in rather loose, the barrel is relatively thin and Ruger doesn't mass produce the high caps for civilians (which seems illegal to me since it is legal for us to own them, kind of like not letting blacks drink from waterfountains:confused: ). Despite all of that I love my mini-14 for what it is. 100% reliable with LEO factory 20's (25-30 bucks online) or Promags steel 20's, am soon to experience the polymer 30's but can't comment on their reliability. Accuracy has been about 3" at 100 from the bench with iron sights. Personally I can't outshoot the rifle offhand which is what matters to me. It is not a sniper rifle and I don't expect it to be. With the Butler creek folder in the folded position, my mini-14 is as long as my AK folder but with an 18.5" barrel plus a flash suppressor as compared to the 16" AK barrel. And with the .223 barrel length is key to reach the velocity needed for effective terminal ballistics. In my opinion it would have been great if the mini-14 construction had held more true to the M-14. The result would have been damning to the M-16/AR-15, or at least have ended such silly comparisons.

3rdpig
February 17, 2006, 10:49 PM
I've had two Mini's and eventually got rid of both of them. They were both reliable and fun to shoot, but neither would shoot under 6" groups at 100 when new. I added a muzzle device to the second one, torqued everything, bedded the stock and got it down to 4" at 100. I've yet to see one with the stock barrel that would shoot under 3" at 100 with factory ammo. In fact, I've yet to see one period at any range I've ever been to that will shoot under 3" at 100. On the other hand, my $650 Olympic 20" AR will shoot 1" at 100 all day long with quality factory ammo. Stock, right out of the box. The 16" carbine I built with a RRA upper will shoot under 2" at 100 and consistently ring the bell at 500 meters.

There's simply NO excuse why Ruger never put a better barrel on the Mini, it's not that much more expensive and with a heavier barrel, 16 inches long it would have shot 3" and under right out of the box. But as they are they're less accurate than most AK's I've owned, including the little 12.5" barrel AMD-65 I built.

Mini's are fun, but they're a 100 to 150 yard gun and it's really not worth it putting much time and money into one, because you can't get it back when you sell it. When I was messing with mine everyone told me "Sell it and get an AR". It use to make me mad, but they were right.

Beemerguy53
February 18, 2006, 02:55 AM
...am soon to experience the polymer 30's but can't comment on their reliability..

If you are buying Thermold polymer mags for your Mini 14 I think you will be very pleased with them.

Tomac
February 18, 2006, 06:20 AM
If you are buying Thermold polymer mags for your Mini 14 I think you will be very pleased with them.

I believe he's referring to the ProMag polymer mags for the Mini-14, not the Thermolds.
Tomac

jlucas45
July 27, 2006, 10:53 AM
Check out www.aimstraight.net .

This system actually works without spending a large sum of money, or adding a lot of weight and bulk to your rifle. I have shot a 1/2" group at 50 yards with it, and about an inch and a half at 100 yards with it. Basically, it cut my groups in less than half. It is also offered with accessory attachments if that is what you are looking for...check it out.

Pilgrim
July 27, 2006, 11:47 AM
I kept mine because it is politically correct in the PDRK.

Pilgrim

johnsonrlp
July 27, 2006, 02:18 PM
The new ones are claimed to shoot 2" at 100 yards. Send me some money to buy one and I'll check it out for you:)

ArmedBear
July 27, 2006, 02:54 PM
The Mini-14 is a helluva fun plinker. It carries nice, shoulders quickly, it's not heavy, and it takes up very little space for a centerfire semiauto.

It's not a match rifle, though it can be used as the foundation of one if you want to spend the money.

It's neither as accurate as a good AR, nor is it as bad as people say.

I might try that stabilizer thingie. Do you just bolt it onto the barrel, or are other modifications necessary?

benEzra
July 27, 2006, 03:39 PM
Mine runs 5.5" at 100 yards for a 10-shot group. Is rock-solid reliable, though.

http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/forums/uploads/1120356158/gallery_260_23_11270.jpg
Mini-14 Ranch Rifle w/Butler Creek folder and custom buttplate


http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/forums/uploads/1120356158/gallery_260_23_2123.jpg
With factory wooden stock.


http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/forums/uploads/1118945487/gallery_260_23_30429.jpg
Butler Creek stock folded for storage, with magazine.

Bartholomew Roberts
July 27, 2006, 03:52 PM
benEzra, you don't happen to own a black van with a big red stripe down the side do you? ;)

.45Guy
July 27, 2006, 04:01 PM
As a matter of fact, I found a film of him in action....;) http://www.retrojunk.com/details_theme/19/

Mannlicher
July 27, 2006, 04:19 PM
Wait till you see what happens to your nice, tight groups as the stock barrel warms up... By the time you upgrade and replace everything that needs upgrading and replacing, you can buy a decent AR.

yes, but not everyone WANTS a decent AR. Frankly, I see a lot of guys spending the farm on making their AR more 'tactical'. A few bucks spent on a Mini-14 pales in comparison.

I have several examples of both platforms. I like them both, and shoot both a lot. The Mini is rock solid reliable, and accurate enough (mine holds 2 inch groups at 100 yards, hot or cold). The big downside of the Mini-14 has always been availibility of decent mags at a decent price, and spare parts.

Dr.Rob
July 27, 2006, 04:36 PM
3 inches is about the best I ever got with iron sights... 2 with a scope on an older pre-ranch model mini.

BIERNUTS
September 7, 2006, 04:09 PM
I kept mine because it is politically correct in the PDRK.

Pilgrim
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I still have mine from PDRK and I'm in CDA, ID now. I was thinking of selling but I don't think there's much of a market for them up here.

toivo
September 7, 2006, 11:10 PM
I kept mine because it is politically correct in the PDRK.

Are the Saigas with the sporter stock legal in Cali?

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976771522.htm

You can find them even cheaper than this if you look around.

weregunner
September 8, 2006, 02:20 AM
Guys,Guys.This is a"flog the dead horse" issue.Weekly we see this posted.People who have them and like them rejoice.Those who don't can shoot something else.Researching past threads or finding a media source that has accuracy info would end this.Maybe the media has no data, but I see articles in the SWAT magazine and semi auto magazines annually.The velocities and accuracy tables with certain types of ammo are posted.There are online sites with articles by these same magazines.My Ruger mini 14 does want I want it to do,so I'm happy,happy,happy!Puhlease end it?Sheesh!:cuss: :banghead: :scrutiny: :cool: :neener: :evil: :D :)

Number 6
September 8, 2006, 04:23 AM
Are the Saigas with the sporter stock legal in Cali?

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976771522.htm

You can find them even cheaper than this if you look around.

No, Saigas are listed as Assault Weapons in any configuration.

dmckean44
September 8, 2006, 08:03 PM
No, Saigas are listed as Assault Weapons in any configuration.

Not true. They're only illegal if imported by Kalashnikov USA. Not EAA or RAA.

Number 6
September 8, 2006, 10:20 PM
Not true. They're only illegal if imported by Kalashnikov USA. Not EAA or RAA.

Do you have a DOJ letter or memo to back that up? Or do you know of anyone who has actually done it? I do not doubt that EAA or RAA Saigas could be legal, but more substantial evidence is needed rather than someone's opinion from the internet.

slicknickns
September 8, 2006, 10:49 PM
I've always pictured the rilfe in the bed of an old beat up pickup track that some farmer uses, or on the shoulder slinged on some farmers back. It's perfect for protecting against coyotes. Perfect.

It's not a competition rifle. Good home defense, good for cops, good for the piece of **** prison guards, good for civilians, good for everyone!

lee n. field
September 8, 2006, 10:56 PM
I don't expect it to be a sniper rifle, but is something wrong with these things?

A pessimized design?

Go to the Perfectunion Mini-14/30 forum (http://perfectunion.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=86). There's a subforum dedicated to accurizing the Mini.

The cheapest mods that seem to help (so they say) are to glass bed the stock and add a muzzle break.

am soon to experience the polymer 30's but can't comment on their reliability.

FWIW, I personally have had no (zero, nada) trouble with the Promag 20 round polymer magazines.

http://www.essex1.com/people/chuckbri/mini14best.jpg

Sometimes things just work right. (No, I haven't duplicated that since.)

The big downside of the Mini-14 has always been availibility of decent mags at a decent price, and spare parts.

Yup-oo. Firing pin is Ruger only, ship to them for them to fit (though I am aware that Brownell's carries an aftermarket pin that needs final fitting.)

rangerruck
September 9, 2006, 02:44 AM
ruger redid all their specs, computers, pours, etc., on this rifle just this past year. So it will def be better accuracy. even then , the best you can expect at 100 yds is proly 3 moa. On a good day.

Win70
September 9, 2006, 04:35 PM
( HAD ) two of them.

ndh87
September 10, 2006, 04:24 PM
Tighten the everything on the gun, and that will reduce your groupings by 50%

Dont forget to retighten everything after each mag. i lost the rear sight on my mini 14 ranch because the screw came loose and fell out in tall grass while i was shooting. the one i have is also very tempermental, i had a scope on it (the crosshairs snapped because of the gun's excessive recoil) but on a good day i could cut a 12 penny nail in half from 50 yards(this is no exageration, i have witnesses) but on a bad day, i couldnt hit a fence post from the same 50 yards. sometimes this would vary from mag to mag, not justday to day...very tempermental gun...

TexasRifleman
September 10, 2006, 04:27 PM
benEzra, you don't happen to own a black van with a big red stripe down the side do you?

I pity da fool dat owns more than 1 Mini-14

nitesite
September 10, 2006, 09:25 PM
I had a very very nice 187-series ranch rifle until quite recently. It was 100% reliable the entire time I owned it. I accepted that (at 100 yards) I may only be able to get minute-of-grapefruit accuracy with a 1.5-4.5 scope on it. It was light, quick handling and FUN! Great as a plinker, to be sure.

It also served as my home-defense rifle for several years because I placed that much trust in it at close ranges. (The scope was a bit of an issue ~ keep it on? or take it off?)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/nitesite9/Mini-14oneweb.jpg

But I sold it after buying a stainless barrelled Bushmaster AR. I shot the M16 for years in the Army and still like the layout of the "controls" much better. I like dissassembly and reassembly on the AR much better. I like dropping and changing magazines much better. I like cleaning from the breech better. I like not having horribly dented cases. Having them drop six feet away (instead of 30') is much better (I'm reloading again, finally).

And I like shooting 2" groups with iron sights @ 100 yards using LC or AE or Q3131 from a rest.

But I sure do miss the years of fun & reliability I had with that Mini-14. The guy who bought it from me is really enjoying it.

I still have a like new Ruger factory 30-rd magazine, just in case I might someday get another (tho' it is rather unlikely...)

GunnySkox
September 10, 2006, 09:40 PM
I look at the Mini as kind of a modern day M1 carbine.

Woah! That actually really brought my Mini into perspective for me. All of the sudden, I like my lil' Mini a lot more.

Thanks, jagdpanzer.

~GnSx

benEzra
September 13, 2006, 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts

benEzra, you don't happen to own a black van with a big red stripe down the side do you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasSIGman

I pity da fool dat owns more than 1 Mini-14

:D

I love it when a plan comes together...

Hawkseye
November 4, 2006, 07:03 PM
I have developed a bolt on device called a Gas Block Thermal Stabilizer which I have tested with Mini-14 rifles that shot 4 to 7" groups at 100 yards. I was never satisfied with the Mini-14 because I could never count on 100 yard accruacy being adequate. With both Mini's, I have been able to shoot sub moa groups, even some smaller-than-a-dime groups with my own "special" handloads. The device is designed to extract the heat away from the gas block and thus minimize the distortion from heat expansion with repeated firing, as well as providing a harmonics tuner that enables you to finely tune your rifle. Check out www.aimstraight.net for more information. I have really gained a lot of confidence in my Mini-14's with this thing and other testamonials from others who have tried it.

Well, it looks like a lot of others spam out here too, if you call fixing an old problem with a well known rifle spam. I have refined my 7 moa Mini-14 to a near clover leaf shooter, and it seems like there are a lot of other guys who would like to do that as well. I've been pretty busy machining them out, and developing anodizing and custom finishes for the product along with other improvements. Actually, my claims were conservative to the real potential of what I have been able to achieve with the GBTS. So are you saying that you would deprive others of the knowledge of such a product, when that is the very focal point of the discussion forum?? That premise is just a little confusing, but there you have it. www.aimstraight.net

Bigfoot
November 4, 2006, 10:12 PM
By Hawkseye I have developed a bolt on device called a Gas Block Thermal Stabilizer which I have tested with Mini-14 rifles that shot 4 to 7" groups at 100 yards. I was never satisfied with the Mini-14 because I could never count on 100 yard accruacy being adequate. With both Mini's, I have been able to shoot sub moa groups, even some smaller-than-a-dime groups with my own "special" handloads. The device is designed to extract the heat away from the gas block and thus minimize the distortion from heat expansion with repeated firing, as well as providing a harmonics tuner that enables you to finely tune your rifle. Check out www.aimstraight.net for more information. I have really gained a lot of confidence in my Mini-14's with this thing and other testamonials from others who have tried it.

Hi Hawkseye, how ya doin? You had to stop making these claims about your product at The Perfect Union Mini-14 section huh? :scrutiny: Yeah that was pretty brutal.



Man: You sit here, dear.
Wife: All right.
Man: Morning!
Waitress: Morning!
Man: Well, what've you got?
Waitress: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam; spam bacon sausage and spam; spam egg spam spam bacon and spam; spam sausage spam spam bacon spam tomato and spam;
Vikings: Spam spam spam spam...
Waitress: ...spam spam spam egg and spam; spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam...
Vikings: Spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam!
Waitress: ...or Lobster Thermidor a Crevette with a mornay sauce served in a Provencale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam.
Wife: Have you got anything without spam?
Waitress: Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Wife: I don't want ANY spam!
Man: Why can't she have egg bacon spam and sausage?
Wife: THAT'S got spam in it!
Man: Hasn't got as much spam in it as spam egg sausage and spam, has it?
Vikings: Spam spam spam spam... (Crescendo through next few lines...)
Wife: Could you do the egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam then?
Waitress: Urgghh!
Wife: What do you mean 'Urgghh'? I don't like spam!
Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
Waitress: Shut up!
Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
Waitress: Shut up! (Vikings stop) Bloody Vikings! You can't have egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam.
Wife: I don't like spam!
Man: Sshh, dear, don't cause a fuss. I'll have your spam. I love it. I'm having spam spam spam spam spam spam spam beaked beans spam spam spam and spam!
Vikings: Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
Waitress: Shut up!! Baked beans are off.
Man: Well could I have her spam instead of the baked beans then?
Waitress: You mean spam spam spam spam spam spam... (but it is too late and the Vikings drown her words)
Vikings: Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam! Spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam. Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Spam spam spam spam!



Bye :D :D :D

Hawkseye
November 5, 2006, 01:05 AM
Well, it looks like a lot of others spam out here too, if you call fixing an old problem with a well known rifle spam. I have refined my 7 moa Mini-14 to a near clover leaf shooter, and it seems like there are a lot of other guys who would like to do that as well. I've been pretty busy machining them out, and developing anodizing and custom finishes for the product along with other improvements. Actually, my claims were conservative to the real potential of what I have been able to achieve with the GBTS. So are you saying that you would deprive others of the knowledge of such a product, when that is the very focal point of the discussion forum?? That premise is just a little confusing, but there you have it. www.aimstraight.net

Bigfoot
November 5, 2006, 01:32 AM
Well, it looks like a lot of others spam out here too, if you call fixing an old problem with a well known rifle spam.

Dude, this is the SECOND time that I've baited you into admitting to breaking the rules of a forum. At least change your nickname next time. Geez. :D



Bye :D :D

GRIZ22
November 5, 2006, 06:51 AM
Back to the issue. I've probably shot 30-40 different Mini 14s over the years as that was my agency's issued long gun and have owned 4 (3 Minis and 1 Ranch Rifle) as I found myself having to liquidate assets for various reasons not because of being unsatisfied with them. I've never seen one that wouldn't shoot 3" @ 100 out of the box and most would do 2". Even when hot (and I mean hot as in the full auto version) they would still shoot about 6" at 100 yd.

I read a different thread where someone was talking about the Min 14's lack of durability. My observations have been much different. We the short barrel full auto, folding stock (AC556?) and same weapon semi auto we used at the range for qualifications. These guns were fired rapid semi and full auto for years. They weren't cleaned often and in spite of this malfunctions were rare (we used factory mags). We noticed that some of them were starting to keyhole and sent them back to Ruger who asked us how many rounds were fired through these weapons. We didn't keep a round count per weapon but figured these weapons we sent back had to have at least 100,000 rounds through them. Ruger rebuilt them and asked us to send them back periodically for them to take measurements but shortly thereafter the agency standardized on M16s because we got them for free.

I only have one Mini 14 now and I'm quite sure I'll never wear it out. ARs are more accurate and unlike others I don't have any major criticisms of the AR family having used one since 1968 during my all expenses paid tour of SE Asia (I cleaned it as I was told to) and in the Reserves and as a LEO since.

The Mini14 does what it was designed to do and at a good price.

grimjaw
November 5, 2006, 01:20 PM
I know quite a few people who own them though, and none of them are impressed with the Mini's accuracy. Is there something they're doing wrong, like ammo selection, or are Mini-14s inherently inaccurate?



The problem your friends are having is called "A-Team Syndrome." It comes from learning the use of the Mini 14 from watching A-Team episodes. It is fairly common. Please note the following image:

http://grimjaw.net/ateam.jpg

On the left, you have the character "Face." He was noted for his social skills and physical beauty, [B]not his marksmanship. He is firing with the stock folded, from the hip. Also note the lack of tactical clothing required with the use of a semi-automatic rifle.

On the right is Mr T, who was known as "B.A. Baracus." He is also preparing to fire from the hip, with apparently no magazine, although I will give him the benefit of the doubt that the photo was captured in the middle of a tactical reload. Perhaps the magazine is under one of the many religious symbols worn around his neck. B.A. is wearing what equates to brass knuckles for physical combat. He has added a head spike to his tactical gear, but instead of being made of metal, it is some plush material. Clearly, not the person who you want to learn marksmanship/combat skills from.

At least one cause for relief: the US military has decided to stop pursuing the A-Team.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30660

[END HUMOR], and my contributions to a thread that is already older than my four year old nephew. :rolleyes:

jm

ps. note 4V50 Gary's post (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11994&highlight=mini+14) from 1999 referencing OLD Mini 14 accuracy threads.

X-Rap
November 5, 2006, 10:34 PM
The mini platform is Rugers bigest P.O.S. This from one of the most inovative gun manufacturers in the last, well a long time.I've had 3 and known a half a dozen friends who have had them (notice the past tence).One of them a ranch bought used would clear the mag randomly another would literaly bounce bullets of the ground at 100 yds who knows where the high shots went.Friends don't let friends shoot minis.

MoccasinTracks
November 6, 2006, 12:39 AM
I have a mini 14, and after getting one of those mini mag light mounts I noticed a better group.

Now i have a tube that i dremeled to fit flush with the gas block in there , and am getting around 1 - 3 inch 100 yard groups depending upon me and the ammo and such.

Their was a big article on it at another web site, but i have lost the site.

X-Rap
November 6, 2006, 01:56 AM
Not trying to sound like an a$$ but doesn't having to hang different s#@# on your barrel just to get an average group kind of suck.I've read here about struts and such. I've got this picture of this chunk of iron ubolted to the barrel to make it ridgid or something.I have an out of the box colt H-Bar that is sub moa and a 16" carb frankenstien that shoots under 1.5. I just can't understand starting of with a crap platform and tryig to make it something even its manufacturer doesn't think it is.

Bigfoot
November 6, 2006, 08:42 AM
You two are talking about the original http://www.accu-strut.com/.

MoccasinTracks
November 7, 2006, 09:15 AM
I gave $165 for my mini-14 (made in 1976) in 1979.

The part i added cost me maybe $20.

the mini goes bang every time, and doesen't crap where it eats.

I clean it every once in a while, but often it rides around in the trunk and gets minimal care.

all my mags: 5; 10; 20; and 30 work, or were long ago replaced.

For what I want it to do it serves me nicely.

Of course if someone has a $185 ar15 that will shoot less than 2 inches at 100 yards, and always goes bang with similar care to what i give the mini, then I might be interested in buying it. :-)



YMMV.

My favorite rifle is a m14 / m1a and the mini is a baby version that lets me shoot a small round when I feel like that is what I want.

I had my fill of m16 in service, and really prefer a .308 for serious go to rifle.

My favorite platform of .223 is a bolt action rem. model 788.


I was just offering a simple solution that worked for me with one sample of the mini-14.

once again, ymmv

Have a nice day.

M.T.

OK-gobbler
November 7, 2006, 09:33 AM
I came across a used Mini-14 for $300. wood and blued. It comes with one 5-rounder and Tasco scope. It is a friend's who is wanting to finance a new encore. Assuming it shoots fairly accurate (3-4"), would this be a good deal?

wdlsguy
November 7, 2006, 11:33 AM
I gave $165 for my mini-14 (made in 1976) in 1979.

The part i added cost me maybe $20.
According to this inflation calculator (http://www.westegg.com/inflation), the $185 you paid in 1979 is the equivalent of $524 in 2005.

jonsidneyb
November 7, 2006, 12:13 PM
some of you guys have better mini's than I have. I stuck a Leupold 4.5x14 on it from another gun to help check the accruacy and shot off a bench in my back yard at only 25 yards and I could not get a good group at that range. It was a ranch and I was using Tally mounts.

I do realize it is not a target rifle but in all honest it was the least accurate rifle I have ever shot. This will be really hard to believe but I did a little bit better with Brenkie Slugs in a Reminton 870 using iron sights. That was not fun on the bench shooting the shotgun on the bench.

I am sure there are some 3-4 moa ones out there but I could not get that out of it. Mine was worse than those saying it is 7moa gun. Alot worse.

One day I want to give it a try again. I might go for Clark Custom when I try again. The truth is I would be happy with 3 MOA but would be tickled with 1.5 moa.

I don't want an AR either. I want a little semi-auto brown rifle that will shoot resonably well.

jonsidneyb
November 7, 2006, 12:17 PM
Actually this is what I want.

http://www.imt.net/~royalarms/Stocks.html#Bitterroot%20sporter

I want to try and turn an Mini-14 into an elegant carbine that can shoot 1.5 moa.

Maybe a royal arms stock and Clark customs can make this a nice little gentlemans carbine. Yes I know I know, by the time I do all of this I have spent alot more than an AR. I can't afford to do this anyway but I want to.

22-rimfire
November 7, 2006, 12:21 PM
I have no problems with the Mini-14. Always goes bang and the bullet generally goes where I point it. For those that hate them, just buy something else like a piece of bat guano AK47 clone. Any gun that rattles when I pick it up is not for me..... that has always been my problem with the old 1911's.

I have considered buying another barrel and I appeciate the aimstraight link given earlier in the thread. Never really expected the mini-14 to be a target rifle. Had a Mini-Uzi carbine (folding stock) and that thing couldn't group 3" at 25 yds. Sure was one major hunk of iron though and looked cool.

jonsidneyb
November 7, 2006, 12:31 PM
I do not hate the Mini, It is just so close to what I want with what I consider a major flaw.

I don't want to go hiking with a black rifle is all. I have shot AK's and do not really care for them, the AK I last shot did get better groups than my mini.

Froggy
November 7, 2006, 05:11 PM
Just returned from a range session where I gave my fairly new Mini-14 (a 580-series ranch model) another go. No wind at all, clear skies, temp about 75 degrees, elevation about 5200' MSL, Remington 55 grain (L223R3). Using only iron sights.

At 25 yards, a ten round group was about 3/8" wide and 2" tall. Clear vertical stringing similar to last week's range session.

"Groups" on the 100 yard target were similar to last week... about 4" diameter, but with no wind they were nicely centered on the "X" ring.

I'm guessing it is as many folks believe.... the thin barrel has a bit too much wobble. I'm looking forward to a chance to try out that accu-strut gizmo.

benEzra
November 7, 2006, 11:12 PM
Another thing about mini's is that the action cycles fairly violently, which can make the rifle difficult to benchrest. Mine seems unusually sensitive to bag placement, grip, cheek weld, etc. which makes it a royal pain to sight a scope in (even a 2.5x shotgun scope, which I tried to set up this weekend and could not get the darn thing sighted in to my satisfaction).

doc tc
November 19, 2006, 11:26 PM
have had a 580 series mini for about a year or so now and have no complaints. iron sights (ghost ring standard, front blade with ears), Hogue stock is the only change I have made to it and it eats Wolf 62 grain without a burp.

sure it is not a savage fp and will never match my remmie .243 but I think it would be unwise for folks to think that the mini is junk just because somebody says so. that's the standard bs rap on the rifle. the truth is that it isn't a bad gun. it is a rugged two hundred yard rifle and I for one would not want to be shot at at even 300 hundred yards by someone with a mini, expecially not my mini.

rifles have uses. a friend of mine has a custom 6mm PPC. awesome rifle. but he would no more go wandering around in the dirt with that rifle than I would think to challenge him to a shoot-off with my mini. I don't knock his PPC because it is single shot. he doesn't knock my mini because it isn't. seems rational to me.

as for AR's, well I don't own one. government let me use one when they first came out and I hated it. these days you see guys shooting them all over the place and it seems that a real good rifle has finally emerged out of Stoner's design so I have nothing bad to say about it. I'll never buy one though. doesn't look enough like a rifle to me but then I can remember the "Mattel" derrogatives.

so I say we cut the mini some slack. it's just a utility semi-auto that is way fun to shoot and can really take a beating. that's all. it is just a gun for fun and circumstance.

tc

Froggy
November 23, 2006, 10:02 PM
Not sure if previous models are the same, but my 580-series Mini-14 has a twist rate of 1 in 9". While reading up on differences between 5.56 x 45mm and .223 Rem commercial ammo, I came across this:

http://www.barnaulammunition.com/121699Anews.htm

If you are having accuracy issues with your Mini-14, try switching to a heavier bullet. You might have to get some 5.56mm to get it... the only heavy bullet (60+grains) in a .223 Rem cartridge out here is the very pricey match ammo.

Spencer
November 23, 2006, 10:47 PM
I own a Mini-14.

Extremely reliable. Much more than the AR platform I'd say. Also uses a cleaner and much lower maintenance operating system. Breechbolt system has proven itself.

Very low maintenance as I said.

Not nearly as accurate as ARs. Low costs improvements can be made, some of which drastically improve accuracy. These improvements shouldn't add up to the cost where you could have gotten a decent AR-15.

Depends on what you want. If you want to shoot from the benchrest or you want a target rifle, get an AR. If you want a fun semi-automatic carbine at a lower price, get a Mini-14.

Simonovfan
November 24, 2006, 12:13 AM
Thank you.

I've been reading the mini-14 bash posts and couldn't of said it better. If you got a bull target barrel and had it bedded; it still wouldn't add up to the cost of a bottom rung AR. And then the plus that it doesn't "***** where it eats" as far as the poorly designed operating mechanism and it comes out ahead. :barf: Speaking of which, the new gas piston uppers look pretty nice, but they're way over priced right now.

I've shot a couple of Mini's and "used to" own an AR and I like the Mini's better. Especially the action and handling. The Mini-14SS is going to be my next purchase. :p

rangerruck
November 24, 2006, 03:05 AM
now, supposedly, ruger changed everything they did for the mini's in 2005. ingredients, temps, pour specs, electronics, equipment, computer control, everything. And , supposedly, this reduced all 100 yd groups basically in half, on both the 14 and the 30. I have yet to see one of these being used, so I cannot tell you from personal experience, nor anecdotal.

cwick1989
September 24, 2009, 11:18 AM
My mini hasnt had any mods what so ever and im getting a 2-2.5 inch groupin at 100 and have killed an 8 point buck at 300 yds with it think it does its joob!

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