convince me, peep vs open


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kentucky_smith
February 17, 2006, 11:18 AM
As the title says, why are peep sights superior to open sights? I love the open sights on my CZ 452 and on the Mauser K98. Except for longer sight plane, why better? Seems like it would be really easy to be off just a little bit with the rear aperture and not have a perfect sight picture.


I also don't see the advantage to a front sight hood, seems like it blocks a lot of the field of view.

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Merkin.Muffley
February 17, 2006, 11:31 AM
With open sights, your eye has three focus points (rear sight, front sight and target). Your eye, try as you might can't do this. You can do two, but not three. With peep sights, the eye automatically centers itself in the rear aperture, which is seen only as an out of focus blur (or ghostly ring) and you have two focus points left - front sight and target. This is something your brain/eye can do.
I find them much faster, but I grew up shooting with them. I don't know if they're superior, if they're not your cup of tea I wouldn't worry about it.

robert garner
February 17, 2006, 11:37 AM
dont demand a sight picture as you are used to with open sights .
The purpose of the aperature is to hold your eye/in relation to front sight .
You recieve a very good and fast view of your intended target,place post / bead/ front aperature on target and fire.
Instead of watching windage (bisecting notch with post) elevation (alingning
top of post with top of notch) and holding target on top of it all , trying to focus on three different objects at three different ranges all at a time.
With aperature you
Look THRU rear sight, find target, place front sight on target, fire.
As an aside when you find a partner that will allow you to try his, keep both eyes open, I am now mumbly yrs old vision startin to go,cant see to read inside my considerable reach, and havent used a scope yet for hunting!
good luck!
robert

bowfin
February 17, 2006, 11:44 AM
The best thing to do is to get a rifle with peep sights and go shoot it. You still might not like peep sights, but you will have a good idea on how they work, and if they are for you.

I know it is hard to believe that they can be accurate with "nothing in back to line up", but the eye does a very good job of automatically centering the front sight in the aperture.

The hood on a front sight protects the front sight from being knocked about, and is usually of the size that it is not seen in the peep sight, being big enough to be "outside" the peep sights circle. Although not an official purpose, the hood also helps keep the blueing on the front sight from wearing off and then the sun from reflecting off of a shiny front sight.

JMusic
February 17, 2006, 11:56 AM
Kentucky Smith I too was unconvinced until I used them. Now I put them on most weapons that I don't use Scopes on. The ones that are left( without Peeps) I use for special shooting at moving targets and frankly use nothing but the front sight if that.
Jim

kentucky_smith
February 17, 2006, 12:55 PM
It just so happens I've got a CMP M1 coming sometime, which is why I asked this. What do you guys do to get over the wait?

robert garner
February 17, 2006, 01:04 PM
We should all have such troubles!

blackhawk2000
February 17, 2006, 08:34 PM
My AR was the first gun I've ever shot or owned with peep sights. It still amazes me how quick it is to get off a shot. I will do my best to get them on every gun I own.

Jayb
February 17, 2006, 09:06 PM
Don't confuse the M1's ghost ring rear sight, with peep sights. Peep sights are much smaller in diameter. They provide a "pinhole effect" that allows my old eyes to focus without diopter adjustment. I can no longer focus with buck horn or receiver sights. I made an adapter for the ghost ring sights on my AR that reduces the hole to .045" and it works very well for me.

I'm just north of Indy, and if you want to see the difference, come on up and we'll shoot some......

The Real Hawkeye
February 17, 2006, 09:17 PM
As the title says, why are peep sights superior to open sights? I love the open sights on my CZ 452 and on the Mauser K98. Except for longer sight plane, why better? Seems like it would be really easy to be off just a little bit with the rear aperture and not have a perfect sight picture.


I also don't see the advantage to a front sight hood, seems like it blocks a lot of the field of view.No comparison. With open sights, the rear sight blocks off at least half, and usually more, of your field of view around the target. With peeps, the rear sight essentially disappears, and you simply place the front sight blade where you want the bullet to go.

You think all that space in the circle allows for imprecision, but test it. Try to keep the front sight on target, but off center, and see what you hit. You will find that you cannot. You have to try to put the front sight off center, and even if you succeed (so long as the front sight is squarely on target), your bullet will still be on target, but if you don't try to put it off center, your eye will naturally center it, resulting in even greater precision.

Rock_Steady
February 17, 2006, 09:35 PM
was a williams-fp sight on my marlin 336. I had no luck using the buckhorn sights on this weapon - and putting a scope on just ruined the lines. Took it out yesterday and was amazed - I thought the rifle had problems in its first few times out, but now I'm holding 3" groups at 100 yards - way more than I need with my brush gun - I think that I will be sure to put these receiver sights on every open sighted rifle I own. Worth the $40. Can't wait to try them on a .22 for squirrel. :)

kennyboy
February 17, 2006, 10:51 PM
If you are shooting at stationary targets, use peeps. Moving targets=open. However, open will work well for both moving and still targets.

Sunray
February 17, 2006, 11:14 PM
"...the M1's ghost ring rear sight..." The M-1 rear sight isn't a 'ghost ring'. It's a peep sight. A battle peep sight. Target sight peeps are indeed smaller, but any rear ring sight is a peep sight.
Peep sights are open sights. They're superior to post and vee sights like those on a K98 because you can't focus on three things at once. Post and Vee require you to line up the front sight blade in a small vee while keeping the blade even with the top of the rear sight and on target.
With a peep sight, you look through the rear sight, like Roberts says, not at it, and focus on the front sight. You put the target on top of the front sight's post and squeeze off the shot.
"...I've got a CMP M1 coming..' What you ordered makes a difference. The CMP has delivery times on their site. http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1garand.htm

ghost squire
February 17, 2006, 11:31 PM
You can't effectively lead a moving target, at least with the peeps found on 03 Springfields way back when, thats why Alvin York switched to a 30-06 Enfield. Garand peeps seem huge and I don't doubt that you could easily lead a moving target at over 25-50 yards or so.

JohnKSa
February 17, 2006, 11:33 PM
WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.

1. Looking through a small aperture helps to correct minor irregularities in the vision.

2. Aperture sights allow a longer sight radius by placing the rear sight closer to the eye than is possible with open sights. This reduces the effect of small sighting errors.

3. The aperture increases the depth of focus of the eye which allows both the front sight and the target to be in relatively good focus at the same time.

4. The aperture's proximity to the eye helps in attaining a consistent position on the rifle.

5. The aperture sight does not require one to concentrate on aligning the front sight to the rear sight which reduces the sight alignment problem by 1/3 and generally makes the aperture sight faster to use than open sights.

6. It is POSSIBLE (some designs don't take advantage of this possibility) to make an aperture sight so that it obscures less of the target than open sights would.

7. Many aperture sights allow the aperture to be readily adjusted or swapped out to best match the lighting conditions. Something that is rarely possible with open sights.

8. The average aperture sight is more easily and more precisely and repeatably adjustable than the average open sight.

A hooded front sight prevents light from shining on one side of the front sight blade or the other. That can cause the point of impact to change--in general, a gun will tend to shoot away from the light if the front sight is not hooded.

However, a hooded sight can cause problems with an aperture sight if the blade is not centered in the hood or if the hood is not round. Your eye will try to center the hood in the rear aperture instead of the blade and that can cause some strange accuracy issues.

roscoe
February 17, 2006, 11:42 PM
I was interested in this whole phenomenon when I got a XS ghost ring for my Winchester 1894. They used to sell a threaded ghost ring that would take a Williams peep sight. There was a modest, but noticeable difference in accuracy in favor of the peep over the ghost ring. It would have made no difference hunting out to, say, 150 yards, but on paper, it was clearly there.

Swampy
February 18, 2006, 06:51 AM
If you are shooting at stationary targets, use peeps. Moving targets=open. However, open will work well for both moving and still targets.

Horse puckey......

Every single M1 rifle, M1 Carbine, BAR, M14 rifle, and M16 rifle the US Military has issued to Soldiers, Marines, and Sailors to defend this country over the last 70 years has had aperture sights. Most of the targets these same servicemen have shot at have been moving.

Also note that PRIOR to 70 years ago most US military firearms had open sights. There must have been good combat effective reasons for a change over to apertures for the military to leave opens and go to apertures exclusively. Note: I'll not debate the '03 Spfld, which had both options. That was a transitional weapon between the two types of sights.

Best to all,
Swampy

garands forever

355sigfan
February 18, 2006, 07:37 AM
If you are shooting at stationary targets, use peeps. Moving targets=open. However, open will work well for both moving and still targets.

Actually ghost ring sights (large peeps) are better for moving targets too. Open sights suck in general except on pistols. Compare the open sights on an Ak to the Peep sights on an AR15. The Ar is far easier to shoot fast and accurately with. Personally I prefer Red dot sigths like the Eotech to either.
Pat

dfaugh
February 18, 2006, 09:30 AM
and I don't have much to add, except my personal experience...Due to vision problems (some old age, some other) I cannot hit the broad side of a barn (from the inside!) with most open sights, especially military versions. Pretty much all the guns I use regularly have scopes. But my best shootin' buddy hase a large collection of antiques, and many of them have high quality peep sights. I've found that I can shoot almost as well, at least at shorter ranges, with the peep sights as I can with the scopes. He also has vision problems, and he actually shoots these BETTER than he can shoot my scoped rifles(but possibly because he's more used to them, and has been shooting them for years.

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