Fed. Gun Law Q.


PDA






Thalinor
February 17, 2006, 02:01 PM
Question:

Does it violate any federal laws to disable a magazine disconnect on a pistol? How about if the pistol if it has a manual safety?

Finally, the guy at FN said because the 5.7 pistol has to pass a “point system” to get it into the country, they said one of the things it had to have was adjustable sites. They said I could not change them to fixed sites because that would drip the gun under the “points”. Is this bull????? I really want to put fixed sites on this pistol and can’t see how once I own the gun it would be against the law to do so. I thought the whole point system the ATF does is only related to manufactures and bringing the gun into the country and once you own it as long as you don’t make it fully auto, your ok.

Thanks in advance.

If you enjoyed reading about "Fed. Gun Law Q." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
TheEgg
February 17, 2006, 02:03 PM
1. Nope, no federal law against it.

2. The guy at FN is correct. (Edited to add -- there is apparently dispute on this -- I know that it applies to rifles, and THOUGHT it applied to pistols as well, as along as they came into the country on this system -- others disagree and may be right.)

TallPine
February 17, 2006, 02:19 PM
RE #2: so I suppose it is in violation of federal law to accidently spill some Super Glue into the adjustable sight...? :p

Zero_DgZ
February 17, 2006, 02:24 PM
Point number 1 is correct, as stated.

Point number 2 draws dispute from my corner. While I can't find the full text of the "points system" law anywhere, it is referenced frequently online. From my understanding, a gun can be modified so that it no longer has enough "points" after it has entered the country and will remain legal. That is, the system only applies to the initial import.

To wit, to get around the system on some models, Glock reportedly imports the guns with one set of sights and after they are in the country swaps them out and sells them.

But this is just what I understand. I could be wrong. IANAL, and all that. If someone could point me towards the full text of this law I'd really appreciate it - It'll be another step towards rounding out my collection...

El Tejon
February 17, 2006, 02:26 PM
1. Unaware of any federal law that criminalizes removing a feckless, senseless magazine safety. If so, I could be gone any day. Can I count on you guys to visit and bring me toothpaste with a file in it.:D

2. When Congress ended the problem that we had with crime by passing the Safe Streets Act of 1968, it directed the IRS (now BATFE) to devise a regime of importing only "sport guns" into the country. Eeeevil militree guns caused crime before 1968 and were thus banned from import. That's why we live in a violence free petting zoo to this day.

IRS came up with a "point system" to ascertain whether a pistol is sporty enough to be allowed to the common serf. It should be on the NRA website thingy. I'll look. Oh, here's an explanation from a Glock fanboy website thingy: http://www.glockfaq.com/models.htm

Once a sporty gun is in, it can be modified to full on eeevil. Herr Glock does this by bring them in sporty condition from EastEmpire and then converting them to eeevil down in Joe-juh.

Thalinor
February 17, 2006, 02:49 PM
Ok, let me get this straight: It IS OK to disable the disconnect?

I thought it would be because people put a Hogue slip on grip over the grip safety on many pistols (thus disabling the grip safety) and no one says anything.

The new 5.7 Pistols have a disconnect to make it a sporting pistol but it is sooo easy to move the rod to a higher position and thus "turning off" the disconnect. While i would not know because i was not sure if it was legal to do so, as a bonus to disabling the disconnect, it might just make the mags pop out "smother"!!! ::Wink, Wink:: Again, i wouldn't know... its just a theory : )

Second, so it IS OK to change out the sites on this gun?


1. Unaware of any federal law that criminalizes removing a feckless, senseless magazine safety. If so, I could be gone any day. Can I count on you guys to visit and bring me toothpaste with a file in it.:D

2. When Congress ended the problem that we had with crime by passing the Safe Streets Act of 1968, it directed the IRS (now BATFE) to devise a regime of importing only "sport guns" into the country. Eeeevil militree guns caused crime before 1968 and were thus banned from import. That's why we live in a violence free petting zoo to this day..

Still laughing at this as i type... nice reply : )

MGshaggy
February 17, 2006, 02:50 PM
1

Once a sporty gun is in, it can be modified to full on eeevil. Herr Glock does this by bring them in sporty condition from EastEmpire and then converting them to eeevil down in Joe-juh.

This is partially incorrect. While a handgun can be modified after importation, a rifle of shotgun cannot unless the requisite number of US made parts are added to the firearm.

gulogulo1970
February 17, 2006, 02:59 PM
Yes and Yes.

They only have those sights to get them into the country, once it is here you can do what you want to it.

Thalinor
February 17, 2006, 03:07 PM
Yes and Yes.

They only have those sights to get them into the country, once it is here you can do what you want to it.


Great. I called the AFT and got a 30 minute run around. They finally told me to call a number that didn't work. Everyone i talked to there (it was like 4 different people) said they thought it would be "ok" on both issues but no one could say for sure.

The funny thing? No one knew of this "point system" and all thought i did not know what i was talking about when i brought it up. One guy said "what point system? You must mean the amount of USA made parts in the gun, because there is no point system" I told them FN explained a point system that makes a gun a sporting gun over a LE/Mil gun, but the guy said he did not know what i was talking about.

FN really does not want anyone to play around with this gun. They got really pissed when i mentioned the disconnect and sites. The guy basically yelled at me and told me i was breaking all kinds of federal laws and i should not be using my "sporting gun" for CCW. He said that if i put different sites on the gun it would make it illegial and i would go to jail. Then he said there was no way to disable the disconnect and if i did i would be breaking the law. I told him i was not sure about the law, but he was dead wrong about not being able to disable the disconnect! He just got even more mad at me and then said he had to go.

Before he hung up I asked him the following: "if the point system was designed to keep ALL guns "sporting" then how is carrying the 5.7 CCW any different they carrying any other pistol?" He just mumbled something about how it was a rifle round in a pistol and thus it was ONLY for sporting. He said it was not a normal pistol so they treat it differently.

Thats all a bunch of crap is you ask me...


EDIT: One more note. I asked if i bought the civi p90 and registered it as a short barrel rifle ($200 ATF stamp) if FN knew of anyone who would do a good job chopping down the barrel. The guy said “You can’t register the p90 as a short barrel rifle so don’t worry about it... its not happening”.

I think this guy was full of *****. The thing is, I can’t see why FN would be such a..holes about all of this? I have never dealt with a manufacture that was sooo anti-civilian with their guns.

El Tejon
February 17, 2006, 03:43 PM
MG, thanks for the clarification, but young Thalinor spoke of pistols and we were discussing pistols and thus my answer was about pistols.:)

Sorry if I caused any confusion, Thalinor.

Thal, expect more of the same in dealing with the ATFE. As for your experiences with FN, FN is like all the rest. Just more evidence of El Tejon's maxim, "the gun business is not about making the customer happy and making money; the business is about telling people 'NO!'"

Thalinor
February 17, 2006, 03:50 PM
Just more evidence of El Tejon's maxim, "the gun business is not about making the customer happy and making money; the business is about telling people 'NO!'"

Humm... does "capital one" make firearms too or just credit cards?

:)

scout26
February 17, 2006, 04:35 PM
1. Unaware of any federal law that criminalizes removing a feckless, senseless magazine safety. If so, I could be gone any day. Can I count on you guys to visit and bring me toothpaste with a file in it.:D

2. When Congress ended the problem that we had with crime by passing the Safe Streets Act of 1968, it directed the IRS (now BATFE) to devise a regime of importing only "sport guns" into the country. Eeeevil militree guns caused crime before 1968 and were thus banned from import. That's why we live in a violence free petting zoo to this day.

IRS came up with a "point system" to ascertain whether a pistol is sporty enough to be allowed to the common serf. It should be on the NRA website thingy. I'll look. Oh, here's an explanation from a Glock fanboy website thingy: http://www.glockfaq.com/models.htm

Once a sporty gun is in, it can be modified to full on eeevil. Herr Glock does this by bring them in sporty condition from EastEmpire and then converting them to eeevil down in Joe-juh.

El T,

Your sarcasm dripped off my monitor and ruined my keyboard. I will be sueing for a new keyboard. Can you recommend a good lawyer ???? :neener: :D ;)

El Tejon
February 17, 2006, 04:50 PM
scout, I'll have you know that the Errornet is no place for wit, irony and sarcasm. We are all d34dly serious Capitan Tacticals here.:neener:

scout26
February 17, 2006, 09:03 PM
After I have you put behind bars for using tactical assault humor (without a CHP -- Concealed Humor Permit), resulting in the destruction of a innocent monitor and keyboard, I will bring you a tube of toothpaste with a file inside. Do you prefer Crest or Colgate ??? :neener:

Bartholomew Roberts
February 17, 2006, 09:46 PM
1. Unaware of any federal law that criminalizes removing a feckless, senseless magazine safety. If so, I could be gone any day. Can I count on you guys to visit and bring me toothpaste with a file in it.:D

That sounds like a lot of work; but I promise we will have the indignant thread decrying your imprisonment here at THR ;)

Hawkmoon
February 18, 2006, 12:45 AM
Log onto the BATFE web site and download Form 4590. It's the worksheet for the point system.

If you enjoyed reading about "Fed. Gun Law Q." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!