[M92FS]

sort of a surprise to me , while I reading my Guns & Ammo 2006 Annual issue. I found out that Colt is back in the civillian market. :)

here's the official site : http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/home.asp

[Majic]

That site has existed for quite a while.

[thatguy]

I don't think I'd call them "back in the business" since there's nothing new there and they were never really gone. Also not sure if I'd call it much of a business offering only three guns. Where are the DA revolvers and .22 pistols? Colt has been dead for some time and they just forgot to hold the wake. A real pity.

[larry starling]

I don't think I'd call them "back in the business" since there's nothing new there and they were never really gone. Also not sure if I'd call it much of a business offering only three guns. Where are the DA revolvers and .22 pistols? Colt has been dead for some time and they just forgot to hold the wake. A real pity.Colt is alive and well, I have bought numerous colts in the last few years and they all have been excellent.:rolleyes:

[WarMachine]

They may be alive, but I would not use "well" to describe the company at this moment.

[Lone_Gunman]

I have bought numerous colts in the last few years and they all have been excellent.

Well you must be buying the same thing over and over, because all they make anymore are SAA, 1911s, and a very limited selection of ARs.

[1 old 0311]

Colt, like Ruger, sold out to the Brady Bunch. They can both sink into chapter 13 and I couldn't be happier:)

Kevin

[M92FS]

I don't think I'd call them "back in the business" since there's nothing new there and they were never really gone. Also not sure if I'd call it much of a business offering only three guns. Where are the DA revolvers and .22 pistols? Colt has been dead for some time and they just forgot to hold the wake. A real pity.

it's not 3 guns ,there's 3 type of guns : pistols , single action revolvers and AR-15 type rifles. hmm... Colt doesn't manufacture DA revolvers and .22 pistols anymore. :)

[boofus]

Colt will not be restarting production of Pythons, Anacondas, King Cobras, Troopers, or any other DA revolver ever again is what I heard.

So if you find a good deal on any Colt wheelguns, snatch it up. They'll only get more rare in the future. I got a hankering for a King Cobra or Python myself.

[paul45]

sort of a surprise to me , while I reading my Guns & Ammo 2006 Annual issue. I found out that Colt is back in the civillian market. :)

here's the official site : http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/home.aspYou need to get out more!:uhoh:

[c_yeager]

When did colt stop making pistols?

[larry starling]

Well you must be buying the same thing over and over, because all they make anymore are SAA, 1911s, and a very limited selection of ARs.
I buy 1911 variants so in effect yes....is there anything wrong with this?:evil:

[larry starling]

They may be alive, but I would not use "well" to describe the company at this moment.
I think if you upgrade from a springfield to Colt you will indeed see that there Alive and Well.:scrutiny:

[ATAShooter]

When sueing the gunmakers was at a height, Colt backed off their line. They never "Ceased" production, but did cut back. Now that the gunmaker is not liable when it comes to a criminal using it in a stupid manner, they are starting to gain some steam.

[Sergeant Sabre]

Here are the actual numbers, according to the ATF (from http://www.atf.gov/firearms/stats/index.htm):

Total pistols manufactured:

Colt
Year Number
1998 62,757
1999 36,320
2000 26,470
2001 25,916
2002 14,994
2003 13,675

To compare:

Sig
Year Number
1998 54,531
1999 72,398
2000 No data
2001 No data
2002 71,483
2003 57,501


Kimber
Year Number
1998 31,762
1999 37,298
2000 49,075
2001 32,746
2002 46,653
2003 48,245

Springfield
Year Number
1998 11,005
1999 17,951
2000 23,021
2001 27,186
2002 48,249
2003 78,254

[thatguy]

It's hard to sell guns when you don't make guns. If you want any DA revolver Colt can't help you. If you want any .22 handgun Colt has nothing to sell you. They only make 1911s, SAAs and AR15s, the three most copied and cloned guns in history and they can't compete with all the companies underselling them on these designs.

Cop shops are buying hi-cap DA semi-autos. Ooops, Colt is out of that market. S&W is selling the crap out of their retro revolvers. Ooops, Colt dropped all their DA revolvers.

It's a long and sordid story of poor management, bad design (can say yuck... I mean Cadet?) and shabby marketing. I got my first Colt in 1973 and I still have it along with a bunch more I picked up over the years. But what can they offer me now?

[rallyhound]

I was at Minnesotas largest gun show today. One guy had 2 new SAA for 1250.00 and $1475.00. They were the only new Colts at the gun show.
If Colt is still making guns nobody is bothering to try to sell them, at least around here.

[P0832177]

The largest MWCA show is next month at the Fairgrounds!I was at Minnesotas largest gun show today. One guy had 2 new SAA for 1250.00 and $1475.00. They were the only new Colts at the gun show.
If Colt is still making guns nobody is bothering to try to sell them, at least around here.

[GEM]

Colt tried for a bit with the failed 2000 Polymer gun and some of the pocket 380s and 9mms for the ccw crowd. They also thought they could corner the police market with a smart gun.

These flopped. They were sunk.

[WarMachine]

I think if you upgrade from a springfield to Colt you will indeed see that there Alive and Well.:scrutiny:

I'm not quite sure I understand your comment. I have no reason to "upgrade" my Springfield, as my PX9130L is one of the most accurate and reliable guns in my collection. Both it and my GI carry a lifetime warranty, and the customer support is outstanding. How exactly would buying one gun allow me to see how well the entire company is doing? I never stated that their guns were of poor quality, as I believe quite the opposite for the most part.

And if I were to upgrade to something from Colt for what I paid for my Springer, it would be a barebones model without the features that I want. If it ain't broke, why try fix it...

[Sergeant Sabre]

And if I were to upgrade to something from Colt for what I paid for my Springer, it would be a barebones model without the features that I want.


It's true that Colt's pistols aren't price-competitive when you compare features. But they do have the features that some of us demand:

Hand-fitting
Bar-stock parts
Very few (if any) castings or MIM

According to Mark at Colt, they aren't trying to compete with other companies that like to put thier stuff on the front of magazines and sell pistols based on the lates "whiz-bang" features (such as the wierd "fish scaling" that's getting so trendy :barf: ).
Thier target market are those individuals who appreciate hand-craftsmanship and high-quality parts. Colt pistols are still made the old way , and that's what some of us demand.

I had a Kimber when I bought my Colt Government. Now the Kimber is gone.

[WarMachine]

I realize everyone doesn't look for the same features, which is why my post was stating what I personally was looking for and wanted. I am poor and still in school. Right now, I buy things that work while giving me the least amount of trouble and keeping my wallet as heavy as possible.

YMMV.

[MCgunner]

Colt, like Ruger, sold out to the Brady Bunch. They can both sink into chapter 13 and I couldn't be happier:)

Kevin

And, S&W as well, LOCKS? So, I guess you'll have to buy a Rossi? Don't buy non-American? Well, I guess there's nothing on the market to buy, then.

There is NAA, Kel Tec, Hi Point, Kimber, Spingfield Armory. I guess there are a few companies out there.

Politics is politics. I don't do the boycott thing. I vote, I donate to NRA, that should be enough. Anyway, the NRA is a more effective way to fight the left wing IMHO.

[paul45]

It's true that Colt's pistols aren't price-competitive when you compare features. But they do have the features that some of us demand:

Hand-fitting
Bar-stock parts
Very few (if any) castings or MIM

According to Mark at Colt, they aren't trying to compete with other companies that like to put thier stuff on the front of magazines and sell pistols based on the lates "whiz-bang" features (such as the wierd "fish scaling" that's getting so trendy :barf: ).
Thier target market are those individuals who appreciate hand-craftsmanship and high-quality parts. Colt pistols are still made the old way , and that's what some of us demand.

I had a Kimber when I bought my Colt Government. Now the Kimber is gone....Hey, dont forget those lovely 2-piece barrels and cheap foreign labor!! :neener:

[larry starling]

I'm not quite sure I understand your comment. I have no reason to "upgrade" my Springfield, as my PX9130L is one of the most accurate and reliable guns in my collection. Both it and my GI carry a lifetime warranty, and the customer support is outstanding. How exactly would buying one gun allow me to see how well the entire company is doing? I never stated that their guns were of poor quality, as I believe quite the opposite for the most part.

And if I were to upgrade to something from Colt for what I paid for my Springer, it would be a barebones model without the features that I want. If it ain't broke, why try fix it... I think your way off on your thinking. For one I bought my SS colt XSE for $729.00, Springfield ss loadeds are selling for 702.00-789.00 in my area. Also I know for a fact the Colt has way less cast and mim parts than the springfield. As far as customer service I have never had to send any colt I own in for problems. Can't say the same for loaded model I had that quit working.....:evil:

[Sergeant Sabre]

...Hey, dont forget those lovely 2-piece barrels and cheap foreign labor!! :neener:


Are you talking about Springfield's frames? The ones manufactured by Imbel?

[dsk]

I buy Colts simply because they're the only ones still making 1911's in the style I like (spur hammer & grip safety and polished flats, and no ski-jump sights, light rails, or snake scales). Only Springfield still makes "classic" 1911's, and unfortunately their quality is all over the board at times. Unfortunately Colt's own quality is still a crapshoot. In this day and age there's no excuse for misaligned pin holes and exterior contours that don't match each side.

If Colt would just fix their own QC issues and put out more product they'd OWN the 1911 market again. Unfortunately I've been saying that for the past 15 years.

[paul45]

Are you talking about Springfield's frames? The ones manufactured by Imbel?Very unclear snide comment on my part! I agree whole heartedly with your post about Colt and Marks comments on why a person desires a Colt. I, also, like the less cast and MIM parts, hand fitting.... and I added that I am no fan of 2 piece barrels or the foreign labor of some 1911s.

[JohnKSa]

WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.

Poor decisions are a Colt tradition. The tradition goes all the way back to when Samuel Colt himself passed on the chance to get the patent on the bored through cylinder.

This same tradition is part of what enabled Ruger to go from a small, one product company, to the powerhouse it is today. The public wanted good quality single-action revolvers and Colt wouldn't make them. After Ruger got a firm toehold and started making some real money, Colt tried to get back into the business. By then, they had lost what once was effectively a monopoly.

[Lone_Gunman]

JohnKSa,

The story doesn't end there, as you well know. In the 80's and early 90's, at the height of the Wonder Nine Craze that swept police departments and the civilian market, Colt found itself without a product to offer. It finally put together the All-American, one of the worst firearms of all time. It flopped completely, and Colt never attempted to re-enter the Wonder Nine market.

In the meanwhile, Colt also let 1911 production quality sag. When the Assault Weapon Ban came along, wonder nines became less popular, and people turned to the 1911 again. Colt let Kimber, Springfield, and even Smith and Wesson come in and steal the 1911 market from them. By the time Colt got their 1911 production back on track, it was too late for them to recapture much market share.

Then CCW laws became more common, and the demand for small concealable handguns came along. So Colt drops the Mustang line completely, while simultaneously developing the Pocket Nine. The problem with the Pocket Nine was it infringed on patents owned (I believe) by Kahr, and as part of the settlement for that fiasco, Colt had to stop producing it.

The shame of it all continues to this day. The Assault Weapons Ban has expired, but Colt decides not to market AR's with flash hiders, bayonet lugs, and collapsible stocks to civilians. Bushmaster and Armalite chose to sell people what they want, and are doing well.

Smith and Wesson has reintroduced old-timey styled revolvers, starting with the Heritage series a couple of years ago, and continuing on now with the recently released retro-styled 45 ACP revolver (model number is slipping my mind as I type). Colt has totally dropped its DA revolver line.

It is amazing that Colt manages to stay in business, and the only reason I can think of is that God must like Colts, because I don't think they would still be around if He wasn't on their side.

[JohnKSa]

WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.

Lone_Gunman,

It's uncanny how effectively they've made the wrong decision at virtually every turn. It goes beyond bad luck and persists throughout management changes. It's almost as if there is something in the basic company philosophy that predisposes them to tank, over and over again.

They truly have a genius for failure.

I say that ruefully, not gloating. It's really sad.

John

[dsk]

The story doesn't end there, as you well know. In the 80's and early 90's, at the height of the Wonder Nine Craze that swept police departments and the civilian market, Colt found itself without a product to offer. It finally put together the All-American, one of the worst firearms of all time. It flopped completely, and Colt never attempted to re-enter the Wonder Nine market.

The All-American wasn't even a Colt design. They bought the rights from (I believe) Reed Knight. And don't forget that during the early 90's when the gun ban hysteria was causing all the manufacturers to sell every gun they could make (and make lots of $$$ in the process), Colt was the only major manufactuer continuing to struggle financially.

[TimboKhan]

Screw Colt. They have possibly the most recognizable brand name in firearms, and they have pissed away most of thier credibility. Colts are fine firearms, don't get me wrong; However, as a company, they completely turned thier backs on not only a large cadre of hardcore shooters, but also a large group of recreational shooters who would have been proud to own a honest to go Colt. The sad thing is, Colt could start making massive amounts of money so very easily if only they would start turning out the pistols that people want. Anacondas, King Cobras etc... Look, maybe Ruger caved to pressure, but the thing is, Ruger never stopped making the guns that people wanted. I happen to be a Ruger fan, and I wasn't happy, but at least they tried to satisfy everybody (even if that was a mistake on some level) as opposed to just turning thier backs on the consumer. So, again, Screw Colt.

[larry starling]

WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.

Poor decisions are a Colt tradition. The tradition goes all the way back to when Samuel Colt himself passed on the chance to get the patent on the bored through cylinder.

This same tradition is part of what enabled Ruger to go from a small, one product company, to the powerhouse it is today. The public wanted good quality single-action revolvers and Colt wouldn't make them. After Ruger got a firm toehold and started making some real money, Colt tried to get back into the business. By then, they had lost what once was effectively a monopoly.
Couldn't agree with you more. I love my Colt's and I will continue to support them, But why want they listen to what people want. I know they could sell a ton of Delta elites if they would bring it back. And what about a series 70 commander?.....:rolleyes:

[Gunsnrovers]

I'll pass on Colt.

Way back in 1992 I could have bought a Springfield MilSpec for $409 or a Colt 1991A1 for $549. I would have gotten the Colt.

Now in 2006, I can buy a Springfield GI for $400 or a MilSpec for $549. A Colt NRM at my local shop now costs $799.

I'll buy the GI at $400 and take the $400 savings put it into having MY pistol built.

Hey wait, I just did that.

If Colt could come out with a decent priced base pistol at a decent price with decent availability, I'll be back in the market. Their NRM's are too much and still need work.

Those "cheap" 2 piece barrels do good work once you properly fit a bushing. Two piece barrels have been around for a while in other pistols.

[MarshallDodge]

The Colt name has been completely used and abused. They kept a lot of gunsmiths in business until Kimber came along and raised the bar.
The last new Colt I picked up, about a month ago, had the usual sloppy fit, MIM parts, and crunchy trigger. At least it didn't have the plastic trigger :rolleyes: It was the stainless Commander model and was priced higher than the Kimber Pro's. The only thing I liked about it was the Novak sights.

It seems like once these companies get name recognition their quality suffers. Kimber's quality seems to be slipping and they have the "stupid" trigger on a lot of their models now. I have two pre-seriesII Kimbers and like Colt's 70 series, I think that's where the quality stopped.

If I were to purchase a new 1911 today it would probably be from somebody other than Colt.

[OldShooter]

As a new member of this forum, I can't believe that I'm reading such negativity against Colt Mfg. and their fine weapons!
I can't help but wonder what on earth has inspired such hatred?

If you prefer Russian, buy Russian. If you prefer Chinese, buy Chinese.
Such disrespect is, in my opinion, remorseful!

[tc300mag1]

Wow they make a whole 3 Firearms now .. They really have falling i have some of the old wheelies and love um but jezz they make 2 guns almost everyone else does.. The ar-15 and 1911 .. i mean smith even makes um now ya cant get much more flooded than that.

The SAA is so overpriced that a lot of people wont buy um and buy the copies instead at one time Colt stood for the best you could buy not anymore and thats to bad

[454c]

Seems to me Colt bowed out of the DA revolver market at the wrong time.People that don't want a lock now have one choice,Ruger.

[asknight]

The last new Colt I picked up, about a month ago, had the usual sloppy fit, MIM parts, and crunchy trigger. At least it didn't have the plastic trigger :rolleyes: It was the stainless Commander model and was priced higher than the Kimber Pro's. The only thing I liked about it was the Novak sights.

You've GOT to be kidding about Colt using MIM in their new 1911's.... right? RIGHT?

[Sergeant Sabre]

Colt uses some MIM, but not like Springfield and Kimber.

Here is the list of Colt parts:

MIM
sear
mag catch
disconector
plunger tube

CAST
safety lock
grip safety

FORGED
slide
receiver
barrel
slide stop

MACHINED from bar stock
hammer
all pins
bbl link
bbl bushing
trigger fingure piece
ejector
firing pin
firing pin stop
extractor

[Checkman]

As a new member of this forum, I can't believe that I'm reading such negativity against Colt Mfg. and their fine weapons!
I can't help but wonder what on earth has inspired such hatred?

If you prefer Russian, buy Russian. If you prefer Chinese, buy Chinese.
Such disrespect is, in my opinion, remorseful!


Colt has earned this. It's been out of touch, won't listen to customers and has adopted a high and mighty attitude. Well eventually the world's current political situation will cool down, it always does, and Colt will find it's military contracts drying up. Then all it will have to turn to is private gunowners, only they won't be there for Colt. Colt has never understood gunowners. I cherish my two Colts (3rd gen DS and Official Police) but I despise that company now.

[Old Fuff]

Originally Posted by OldShooter
As a new member of this forum, I can't believe that I'm reading such negativity against Colt Mfg. and their fine weapons!
I can't help but wonder what on earth has inspired such hatred?

I think you missed the point. It's not a case of hatred against the company or its products as it is the kind of management that took a firm that was one of the two top manufacturers of handguns in the United States, and reduced it to a small custom shop with only two lines of product (three if you count the AR-15 rifle).

Americans are buying foreign handguns for the same reason they buy foreign cars. They see the overseas guns as having better quality and reliability then what's offered by domestic makers. This isn't always true, but it was our own manufacturers that helped create the perception.

Sometimes the truth hurts... :(

[MarshallDodge]

I think you missed the point. It's not a case of hatred against the company or its products as it is the kind of management that took a firm that was one of the two top manufacturers of handguns in the United States, and reduced it to a small custom shop with only two lines of product (three if you count the AR-15 rifle).

Americans are buying foreign handguns for the same reason they buy foreign cars. They see the overseas guns as having better quality and reliability then what's offered by domestic makers. This isn't always true, but it was our own manufacturers that helped create the perception.

Sometimes the truth hurts... :(
Very well said! Americans still make a great 1911. Check out Wilson, Les Baer, STI, and Nighthawk. The custom shop at Springfield is cranking out some nice stuff as well.

Nighthawk's have zero cast or MIM parts and you pay for it. I was not inferring that MIM parts are bad, just making a comparison. MIM has gotten a bad rap because of poor quality control. I have 5 or 6 guns with MIM parts and have had no problems with them.

Parts that are forged or milled can have just as many problems as MIM. It's all about the process.

[Old Fuff]

MIM has gotten a bad rap because of poor quality control. I have 5 or 6 guns with MIM parts and have had no problems with them.
Perhaps, but in the 1911 platform some MIM parts simply don't work, the extractor being an example. Over the long run they won't hold they're tension.

Be that as it may, I don't intend to stake my neck on somebody else's questionable quality control.

Parts that are forged or milled can have just as many problems as MIM. It's all about the process.

They can, but usually don't, unless the parts aren't to print. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that pistols costing $1,000.00 or more wont have components that meet print specifications, both for materials and dimensions.

[gunfan]

I have a Colt 1991-A1, and I consider its polymer parts as "passable". Colt used to put together some of the finest handguns that I have ever owned! (I wish that I had my stainless King Cobra back again).

Today, If I want a fine 1911-type pistol, with the features that I want, I'll pick up the telephone and call my friend, Bob Serva at Dan Wesson/CZ. If I want a super-custom pistol, I'll call Wilson Combat and place an order.

I vote with my pocketbook. That, no matter how you slice it, is the "bottom line". What a concept! Capitalism at it's finest!

Scott

[stevelyn]

I have one Colt.....a Mustang. I like this gun but the only reason I have it because I got it for a song.
As for my sentiments about the company, I'm in the "screw'em" crowd. They are little more than a govt arsenal.

[paul45]

but I despise that company now.....Oh my gosh! What on earth?? Please tell us what those horrible people have done to you to make you DESPISE them.......:confused:

[TimboKhan]

Well, I think I went over why I personally despise them pretty well, but let me point out that for me, it has nothing at all to do with the product but instead has everything to do with management. I would flat out love to have a Python. I had a chance to buy one at a very reasonable price a couple of years ago, and I passed as I was poor at the time, but I am here to tell you that Python was possibly the single finest revolver I have ever held. Everything about it was good. I have never been that big a fan of the 1911 to begin with, and Colts offerings in that regard were no more or less interesting to me than any other manufacturers, and that statement holds true with the AR as well. That said, perhaps I would be more interested in those products if Colt showed any interest in me, the consumer. So, without getting longwinded, which I am wont to do, I say again, Screw Colt.

[BloodyRAzorBlades]

in my opinion any Colt made after the Series 70's sucks.

[Cosmoline]

Colt, like Ruger, sold out to the Brady Bunch. They can both sink into chapter 13 and I couldn't be happier


When did Ruger "sell out to the Brady Bunch"? You people still can't seem to comprehend that the private letter of a long-dead CEO was never company policy. Sturm Ruger never did any deal like S&W did.

[Lone_Gunman]

All I know is that Ruger won't allow its dealers to sell high-capacity Mini 14 and Mini 30 magazines to me.

And that's all I need to know.

[WJR]

in my opinion any Colt made after the Series 70's sucks.

That is a brilliant observation. The NRM 1991s and the re-introduced Series 70s (including the never before produced Stainless Series 70) are some of the best Colts ever made.

Maybe you should jump into 2006 from 1983.

WJR

[Jim K]

A man told me around 1960 that Colt really wasn't interested in the civilian handgun market, as they had plenty of police and military contracts. He further said that Colt was not interested in improving their guns or changing them because they felt that all new ideas were just passing fads that Colt could safely ignore.

A Colt hater? Nope, a Colt VP.

Jim

[Old Fuff]

Yup, another one told me the same thing about five years later. He also said that Colt would never, ever make a piece of trash like that 22. pistol the Ruger company was making.

Another one told me that the .44 Magnum was a passing fad, and they wouldn't make the mistake of tooling up a new large-frame revolver, nor would they ever produce the New Service again.

Over the years I think they set a record for stupid... :banghead:

[denfoote]

When Colt says "Magnum Carry" again, I'll be listening!!!

[Chuck R.]

After shooting an IDPA match yesterday I decided to check out the Colt offerings in the upstairs gun shop.

WOW! :eek:

It may be that the shop is severely overpriced, but a couple models were priced close to a new Premier II Baer at Sporting Arms. I had no idea that Colt’s prices had gotten that high.

I own 5 Colts now (Python, 3 SAAs, Gold Cup) and have owned 7 others. I really like Colts and have never had a problem with any of the ones I’ve owned. I was interested in another commander sized 1911, but at those prices, I’ll probably hold out for another Baer.

Chuck

[paul45]

That is a brilliant observation. The NRM 1991s and the re-introduced Series 70s (including the never before produced Stainless Series 70) are some of the best Colts ever made.

Maybe you should jump into 2006 from 1983....Wonderful observation, WJR....right on !! That original troll statement is just plain wrong....:neener:

[trbon8r]

Colt's latest price increase was a joke. I had an NRM I should have kept and sold AFTER the price increase for a fat profit. The NRM was an ok gun, fed and fired with decent combat accuracy. It was well worth the $550 I paid for it. I sold it for about the same as I bought it for since I wanted a Les Baer.

I bought the Baer and never looked back. It would be easy to say that it's unfair to compare a Colt to a Baer. However, given Colt's price increase where an NRM is now going for about 800 bucks, I say that a base model Concept II Baer that I bought for $1249 is now close enough to within reach of the price of a Colt NRM to be a bargain by comparison to the Colt. Sure the Baer costs an extra 400 bucks, but it is in a totally different league in terms of fit, finish, and accuracy.

[thorazine]

Colt, like Ruger, sold out to the Brady Bunch. They can both sink into chapter 13 and I couldn't be happier.

Kevin

Indeed.

I've owned one colt aka money pit and I will never own another one again.