Way of the Gun


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OF
April 14, 2003, 11:01 AM
I know there has been mention of this film in other movie-related threads, but I just saw it again (with my new 'NetFlix' account - which is the best thing to happen to movie rental since the VCR, by the way) and thought it deserved it's own thread.

If you haven't seen it, be warned, it's violent and more than a little grody in parts. But the gunplay is ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC. Heat is impressive, certainly, but WotG is top notch.

It's almost like a pistol training video with a plot. :)

- one-handed reloads
- tactical reloads
- one-handed chamber checks (very cool)
- IWB holsters
- longgun to pistol transitions
- room clearing
- team movement
- sniping with a spotter
- revolvers vs. autoloaders is a major plot device
- all the guns are cool

That's all I can think of right now.

- Gabe

PS: And it has Benicio del Toro, who is IMO the best actor working.

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cordex
April 14, 2003, 11:11 AM
Great movie, no doubt about it.

Generally the scene that gunnies are the least comfortable with is when Del Toro takes the Galil and starts peppering the walls. Seems to use up too much ammo, wastes all his ammo & has to dump the rifle and stitches a too-perfect line around the room.

All told, however, it was a good gun movie. Watch the commentary if you've got the DVD.

Devonai
April 14, 2003, 11:41 AM
This movie made me go out and buy more magazines for my 1911, along with a Blackhawk triple mag pouch. One of my favorites.

blackhawk2000
April 14, 2003, 11:43 AM
Awesome movie!

BerettaNut92
April 14, 2003, 12:13 PM
PS: And it has Benicio del Toro, who is IMO the best actor working.

Whether that be so, don't rush out and see 'Hunted' now :D

spacemanspiff
April 14, 2003, 12:32 PM
i gotta admit, i actually liked "the hunted".
(in addition, there was a b-movie released in 1998 called "the hunted" that starred Madchen Amick, more recognized for playing Tanya Robertson in Stephen Kings "The sleepwalkers", not the greatest actress, but still entertaining to watch)

the story had its flaws, but it left the options open for del toros character to be not only correct, but also a sort of 'hero'. was he left out to dry by his team? is that what triggered his path of destruction? or just the straw that broke the camels back? he seemed to interact just fine with his girlfriend and her daughter. he didnt seem to be a threat to them.

but it did have its flaws, little ones, unimportant ones, and some big ones. for example, freeing a wolf from a trap? throwing a knife through a sapling? making a knife out of rusty old steel with only a small fire to heat it up? and as the story hints, within a couple of hours? i'd assume that would take a couple of days of heating and hammering and finally honing out the edge.

but still, i liked the story, the knife fights, hand to hand combat.

dog3
April 14, 2003, 01:01 PM
Seconded.

The *only* problem I had was with the
"zooming" sight picture during the
"sniping" scene out front of the motel.

That and the "through-the-wall" shots
being way too high for folks that seemed
to otherwise know what they were doing.

I did learn to never go over the berm
into the fountain without looking :)

OF
April 14, 2003, 01:17 PM
Whether that be so, don't rush out and see 'Hunted' now Ugh. I heard that wasn't so good. It's a rental! :) See Usual Suspects, Traffic and Fear & Loathing in LA back to back to get a good dose of del Toro's absolutely amazing range.

The guy is a chameleon.

- Gabe

OF
April 14, 2003, 01:19 PM
The *only* problem I had was with the
"zooming" sight picture during the
"sniping" scene out front of the motel.I didn't catch that. I'm watching the director's commentary right now on cordex's recommendation (taxes? what taxes?). The technical director was the director's brother, a SEAL. He did a hell of a job training the cast.

- Gabe

dog3
April 14, 2003, 01:41 PM
Maybe zooming isnt' right. But the sight
picture aspect does change.

only movie I've seen where they got
the zzzzip>crack>>bang right.

Correia
April 14, 2003, 02:19 PM
WOTG was a great movie. It wasn't just a good gun movie, but it was a very intense movie even with out the great gun handling.

And I'll second what dog3 says, I'll never jump into a fountain with out looking. Damn that had to hurt. :)

BerettaNut92
April 14, 2003, 03:23 PM
If I were them, I woulda packed more 20 round .308 mags and less .45 magazines.

But maybe they were CA residents? :D

Don Gwinn
April 14, 2003, 04:06 PM
That dive into the fountain is one of the most painful things I've seen. You know it always hurts ten times as much when you have half an instant to think to yourself "Oh, man, that looks sharp." :uhoh:

but it did have its flaws, little ones, unimportant ones, and some big ones. for example, freeing a wolf from a trap? throwing a knife through a sapling? making a knife out of rusty old steel with only a small fire to heat it up? and as the story hints, within a couple of hours? i'd assume that would take a couple of days of heating and hammering and finally honing out the edge.


That bit about saving the wolf--the technical advisor was the guy who designed that famous "Tracker" knife in the movie (that TOPS now makes.) On his website, he cites that scene as one of his favorites and says it was gratifying how closely they followed reality. So either he's a bit prone to exaggeration of his bond with all the Earth's creatures (which ain't unheard-of among mystical trackers who offer to teach you the secrets Grandfather taught them as children on the reservation) or he has some good reason to think that scene makes sense. We don't have wolves around here, so I wouldn't really know.

From what I've heard, they really compressed the time on the knife. Also, is this the TOPS Tracker we're talking about? The funky knife with the micarta scales and a bunch of complex grinds that they show in all the commercials? 'Cause ain't nobody who could make that knife with a campfire, some rocks and a leaf spring. It's shocking what you can produce, but not that.

Tamara
April 14, 2003, 04:38 PM
One of the most vital gun scenes in Way Of The Gun to me is when Benicio's character and James Caan's character meet out front of the motel/cantina at night. To show Benicio he is unarmed, Caan lifts his Member's Only jacket above his waist and turns around.

What is the very important point that Benicio missed in that whole scene? ;)

spacemanspiff
April 14, 2003, 04:51 PM
shoulder holster?

Tamara
April 14, 2003, 04:54 PM
His right hand never left his jacket pocket. (Which I am assuming contained that little J-frame snubbie he toted the whole time. ;) )

556A2
April 14, 2003, 05:22 PM
WotG was one of the best movies I have seen recently, in fact the only other movie I've seen recently to be in its league was Goodfellas.

OF
April 14, 2003, 05:26 PM
Tam: the director mentions in the DVD commentary that the pen Caan is holding in that scene outside is actually a little stilleto that looks like a pen. :)

- Gabe

MiniZ
April 14, 2003, 07:31 PM
Great flick!

Yea, there were scenes that those "in the know" point out as flawed, but I try not to get too into analyzing films that way-I just want to enjoy them.

Heck, I enjoyed "Desperado" if that tells you anything-that show had more gun related flaws than any I can think of off the top of my head.

BowStreetRunner
April 30, 2003, 07:33 PM
Because of this thread I went out and rented TWOTG today and watched
AWESOME!
its up there with Boondock Saints and LA Confidential as my favorite modern film noir movies
BSR

cool45auto
April 30, 2003, 09:00 PM
OMG! WOTG is my new favorite gun movie. I've watched a few times. The gun handling is impressive. Way better than any other gun movie I've seen in a while. I bought the DVD but haven't watched the commentary yet.

Bowlcut
April 30, 2003, 10:12 PM
Yea because of this thread i watched the movie. And liked it A LOT. I like Ryan as an actor and really liked his part in the movie. Yea del Toro made the movie tho :). And hush....you are making me want to sit here and watch it again.

Mastrogiacomo
April 30, 2003, 11:07 PM
I always like Juliette Lewis but I hated the film. I didn't like the opening of the movie -- and still trying to figure out what that obscene exchange was all about. Personally, I prefer John Woo films for gun play, anything with Simon Yam as well -- "Full Contact." :D Just bought another DVD titled "Double Tap" which is supposed to be a fantastic gun film. We'll see...:)

Kamicosmos
May 1, 2003, 12:18 AM
The opening of the movie according to the commentary was supposed to be a trailer for the rest of the film. It established that point that these two characters have basically no regard for much of anything: other people, their own lives, nothing. Except maybe that they are adrenaline junkies or something.

Oh, and Tam when Cann is out side and lifts his jacket and rotates to show he's not packing...both hands are actually outside the pockets, holding the corners of the jacket. It also looks like he doesn't have his gun in the pockets, cause they don't sag. Dunno if that's a film fopar or if the character actually isn't carrying at that point cause he knows Launbough would detect the gun anyways...


but, hey....that's nit picking, right?

"A plan is a list of things that don't happen."

Admiral Thrawn
May 1, 2003, 01:18 AM
Damn! Were you watching the commentary on the DVD? I guess the DVD of it that I hired must have been the original release, because it certaily has no commentary that I can find... :(

Anyway, the thing that I question the most in the film is: did Longbaugh and Parker actually die at the end?

When it cuts to the credits, they're still moving, lying there in trails of blood: but are you supposed to think they die afterwards, or what?

Both of them were shot three times in the leg by Joe's (James Caan) snubbie revolver, in addition to Parker's 'fountain encounter' ;)

So do they bleed out and die? Get up, patch themselves up a bit, and get in their car? What do you think?

WonderNine
May 1, 2003, 01:22 AM
That's a pretty cool movie, although it's a bit slow in the middle. I downloaded it with Edonkey2000 a couple of months ago. Who needs a VCR? Mines a newer Sony covered with dust that hasn't even been plugged in in over a year :cool:

NIGHTWATCH
May 1, 2003, 03:54 AM
One of my many favorite scenes ;) from this great movie is the part where Del Torro and Phillipe just exit the hotel bar to confront Cann's posse. Del Torro is up against an adobe pillar. Phillipe calls out: Are you alright? Are you still with me?

Del Torro is a little shaken and short of air, saying under his breath, "yeah Im here. Im still here". Than takes a deep breath and shouts out ,Yeah! And a bullet just misses his head!

I tell you everytime I see that scene I lose a little of my breath.

#2 fav- the very comfortable scene between Del Torro and Cann in the bar. Exchanging their criminal notes. :D

#3 fav- A very subtle scene where he is on the phone with Tay Diggs (I think thats his name) negotiating with Del Torro and his demands. Just before the conversation ends, Del Torro asks, so, what do you think? Diggs can be heard on the phone saying, it has holes. Del Torro responds by saying, yeah well, we are new at this. :D - LOL Great film.

Razor
May 1, 2003, 07:36 AM
Damn! Were you watching the commentary on the DVD? I guess the DVD of it that I hired must have been the original release, because it certaily has no commentary that I can find...

I have the original release and there's a pair of commentaries. One w/ the director and composer and one w/ an isolated musical score and the composer. They're in the audio features section of the special features menu.

Whoops! I just noticed where you're at, Admiral Thrawn. You guys probably do have a different version of the DVD.

cordex
May 1, 2003, 09:26 AM
did Longbaugh and Parker actually die at the end?
Director says in the commentary that it's up to the viewer to decide.

Devonai
May 1, 2003, 11:32 AM
I've always like the idea that the brothel girls come back after the cops have left, find them and fix them up. You've heard of the prostitute with a heart of gold, what about twenty? :D

I have the soundtrack and enjoy it greatly.

Lochaber
May 1, 2003, 01:51 PM
If you have to ask if Longbaugh and Parker die, then you missed the segnificance of their names as well as part of the in joke about not telling you if they die.

HINT: ' Kid, the next time I say, "let's go someplace like Bolivia," let's GO someplace live Bolivia. '

Loch

Average Guy
May 1, 2003, 04:37 PM
I love that so many people are being turned on to one of my favorite flicks. My brother just watched it (while his wife and daughter were out of town) and is now a fan.

As far as different versions, I have the German DVD. The English commentaries are still there, plus German and English audio tracks. There's also a bonus behind-the-scenes featurette not on the US DVD.

The major difference is the cuts, mainly (perhaps only) in the final shootout: The guy who takes the load to the groin is out, and the "payoff" at the end of the "ricochet" scene is gone. If there had been bare breasts, you know they would have stayed. :) Well, it's listed as being rated for 14 and up, so I guess the cuts were necessary for that.

boogalou
May 1, 2003, 05:15 PM
What I found fascinating about the movie is the way Longbaugh is always testing Parker. He knows that the doc has a gun in his case when they're at the truckstop, yet waits to see if Parker notices it. He also tells Parker to get his coat after Parker expresses some reservations about what they're doing, knowing full well that Parker left Juliette Lewis's character alone in the motel room with a loaded shotgun.

Only after seeing Lewis laying in her own blood while the Doc works on saving the baby does his conscience start to bother him and He starts to have doubts about what He is doing.

Best line for me -

"Your prayers aren't always answered in the order they are received" - Parker

BowStreetRunner
May 1, 2003, 06:20 PM
I want to think Parker and Longbaugh survive....it struck me as silly though when the doctor walked right past them as they lay wounded
oh well
BSR

Rawlings
May 1, 2003, 08:06 PM
My favorite moment is probably when Del Toro shoots the bagman's toe from around the corner.

cool45auto
May 1, 2003, 08:06 PM
Lochaber: Come on! You're killin' me! Tell me about the significance (sp?) of the names! What choo talkin' 'bout, Willis??

boogalou
May 1, 2003, 10:02 PM
Cool9mm -

Harry Longbaugh was best known as "The Sundance Kid"

and his partners name, Butch Cassidy......

Robert Leroy Parker

:D

OF
May 1, 2003, 10:09 PM
No kidding. :cool:

- Gabe

Bowlcut
May 1, 2003, 10:34 PM
Now linking it to one of my other favorite movies, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. That was a great movie.

I still need to buy this on dvd. I occasionaly open it up and watch the shoot out when I get bored.

I do think they lived, didnt seem like they were totaly bleading out... They had just a mere flesh wound ;)

Admiral Thrawn
May 2, 2003, 12:46 AM
That'd be right.... I just double checked the region 4 DVD version, and it has NO special features at all. :cuss:

ScottS
May 3, 2003, 07:30 AM
Other great lines:

Del Toro during the interview at the sperm clinic, when he tells the interviewer he has never had sex with dead people. The interviewer gasps, "I didn't ask that!" Del Toro says, "Well, you should."

Del Toro: "There's always free cheese in a mouse trap."

Phillipe: "A plan is just a list of things that don't happen."

I never did understand what the deal was with the guy playing Russian Roulette with the bag of revo's.

Great flick.

Scott

Justin
May 3, 2003, 08:55 AM
I never did understand what the deal was with the guy playing Russian Roulette with the bag of revo's. I think it was to show that Abner wasn't the most well-balanced guy. If you watch, when James Caan makes the call to Abner, he looks at a list of people who could potentially be used for this little errand. All the other names are scratched out, and Abner's was the very last one on the list.

Incidently, it was hinted at a couple of times that Joe Sarno* was Robin's father. (In real life Geoffrey Lewis is Juliette Lewis' Dad.)

As to whether or not they lived or died, my personal vote is that they died. Parker and Longbaugh were a couple of scoundrels who tried to bite off more than they could chew by attempting to steal from people who were meaner, older, and wiser than they were. After all, do you really think Joe Sarno would have let them lay there, still alive, if there were any chance that they'd live? But it is an indeterimant ending, which makes it cool to talk about. If they had just wrapped it up in a pretty bow with a happy ending I don't think the movie would have been nearly as good.

"Your prayers aren't always answered in the order they are received" Hmmm, interesting. I'd always heard the line as 'Your prayers are always answered, in the order they are received.' That line gets said right before Francesca comes out and tells her husband that she's pregnant, more than likely with Taye Diggs' kid, which basically makes the whole movie a moot point.

*edited because Tamslick pointed out I was wrong. D'oh!

Tamara
May 3, 2003, 09:07 AM
Incidently, it was hinted at a couple of times that Abner was Robin's father.

Uh, James Caan was her father in the movie. That's kind of a major plot point. (Remember him saying that his daughter was "working on something that should make him enough money to retire", or words to that effect? ;) )



Darnit. Now I want to go watch it again. At least just the big shootout scenes...

Justin
May 3, 2003, 09:11 AM
D'oh! You're right! *smacks forehead*

I'm up waaaaaay too early. Next time I go to Best Buy, I think a copy of WOTG will follow me home, along with Boondock Saints and Donnie Darko.

Oh yeah, and Equilibrium comes out May 13! W00T!

thaddeus
May 3, 2003, 11:07 AM
I like the way the old, experienced, level-headed guys with snubbies and pump guns end up beating the hotshot, well-trained, highly-equipped guys.

The young hotshots were very good, but nothing beats experience and a cool head.


No amount of fancy equipment or even training can make up for it.
A real operator can get the job done with even the most basic of tools.

This premise is the same reason I liked The Unforgiven. Clint Eastwood points out that with the balloon goes up, most people cannot function. A cool head and succinct movements wins every time overy a jittery panicked "fast" newbie.

cordex
May 3, 2003, 11:53 AM
I like the way the old, experienced, level-headed guys with snubbies and pump guns end up beating the hotshot, well-trained, highly-equipped guys.
Did the skinnies win the battle of Mog in BHD too?
In case you didn't notice, only one of the dozen or so "level-headed guys with snubbies and pump guns" survived and they only won because they drastically outnumbered the "hotshot well-trained highly-equipped guys" and were able to ambush them from hiding while covering a known objective.
The young hotshots were very good, but nothing beats experience and a cool head.
*laugh* Unless you're one of the expendable extras. In which case you're gunned down by the hotshots every time.

NIGHTWATCH
May 3, 2003, 12:08 PM
I figured Cann was the father, after his reaction to seeing Lewis when she had just given birth. Im glad someone confirmed that here. :cool:


But, did the doc know that he was her father? Twists and turns. :neener:

boogalou
May 3, 2003, 02:30 PM
But, did the doc know that he was her father? Twists and turns

I figured he did, but it's another part of the movie that you can wonder about.

I also thought it was interesting when Longbaugh is teaching Juliette Lewis how to play Hearts. There is a lot of symbolism there. It pretty much sums up Longbaugh's outlook on life. You start caring about someone and it will cost you.

It was also a warning to Parker that he was getting to close to Lewis's character.

Admiral Thrawn
May 5, 2003, 06:32 AM
Cordex is right; during the final gunfight, Parker and Longbaugh gunned down the entire mob of bagmen who had snubbies and pump-action shotguns. With the exception of course being Joe (major character), who snuck up behind Longbaugh as he was distracted helping Parker; not to mention how Longbaugh forgot to reload.

Don Gwinn
May 5, 2003, 09:07 AM
The doc knew that Sarno was her father (he knew her last name was Sarno, after all.)

Sarno did not know that Doc Painter was the father of the baby until the end.

Abner is part of the old guard that Sarno represents, and he's at the end of a mostly useless life, so his despair is overwhelming, but he's calm about it. His death scene is one of the best things in that movie, by the way. Watch it again. Lewis is a genius.

You are not supposed to hope that Longbaugh and Parker made it. They're filthy, murderous hoods and kidnappers. They'd have killed Robin without much more discussion beyond the hotel scene, and they did kill at least three innocent bystanders (watch carefully when they drive away from the hospital at the beginning.) The whole point of telling the story from their point of view was to make sure there would be no heros. To the extent that anyone in the movie could be considered the hero, it would have to be Painter, who redeems himself for "what happened in Atlanta" by saving Robin. Even he's no angel.


Originally, the story was going to be that the reason the two were "off the path" was because they refused to murder a child so that their boss could have his liver--and I'm pretty sure Parker was the one who couldn't pull the trigger. But that was cut to avoid creating sympathy for them, because they're not good people.

Admiral Thrawn
May 5, 2003, 10:40 AM
You are not supposed to hope that Longbaugh and Parker made it. They're filthy, murderous hoods and kidnappers. They'd have killed Robin without much more discussion beyond the hotel scene, and they did kill at least three innocent bystanders (watch carefully when they drive away from the hospital at the beginning.) The whole point of telling the story from their point of view was to make sure there would be no heros. To the extent that anyone in the movie could be considered the hero, it would have to be Painter, who redeems himself for "what happened in Atlanta" by saving Robin. Even he's no angel.


Actually, the two dead people lying outside of the hospital are the rest of Robin's bodyguard team; the two who pursued Parker and Longbaugh throughout the remainder of the movie were the last ones left alive (there were only 4: Joe says himself that "half of your team get wiped out by a pair of yahoos" to the remaining two bodyguards when they're in the police questioning room).

And it was "what happened in Baltimore" :p

cordex
May 5, 2003, 11:26 AM
Actually, the two dead people lying outside of the hospital are the rest of Robin's bodyguard team
Right, but there was also a lady lying on the ground and someone dead or injured in a distant car (can barely see them). Plus maybe a couple more.

OF
May 5, 2003, 11:33 AM
IIRC, there are at least 2, maybe 3 dead civilians in addition to the two bodyguards outside the hospital. The commentary talks about a dead woman in a car that I didn't notcie in that scene as well.

- Gabe

OF
May 5, 2003, 11:34 AM
Jinx.

:)

- Gabe

Wayne D
May 5, 2003, 12:43 PM
You are not supposed to hope that Longbaugh and Parker made it. They're filthy, murderous hoods and kidnappers. They'd have killed Robin without much more discussion beyond the hotel scene, and they did kill at least three innocent bystanders (watch carefully when they drive away from the hospital at the beginning.) The whole point of telling the story from their point of view was to make sure there would be no heros. To the extent that anyone in the movie could be considered the hero, it would have to be Painter, who redeems himself for "what happened in Atlanta" by saving Robin. Even he's no angel.

I do feel that Longbaugh and Parker redeemed themselves somewhat at the end by deciding to shoot it out for the money instead of subjecting Robin to more suffering. They could have held her and the bady hostage for the money, but Longbaugh says, "She's had enough" and Parker touches her forehead, and then they leave to take on the bagmen.

spacemanspiff
May 5, 2003, 01:08 PM
theres another aspect that noone has commented on, and i only discovered it when reading an interview with the director. parker was having conflicts with letting the baby be seperated from his mother all along. thats because he was taken from his mother and put through foster homes. remember when longbaugh asked him "after all we've done, people we've killed, what does taking one baby away matter?" parker replies "it matters."
iirc, this was also right after parker recalls when he killed the pedophile and divulged how that affected his psyche, having to recite that prayer before being able to fall asleep.

it seems obvious that both longbaugh and parker realize they have led a life of despicableness and both feel some pangs of conscience over what they have done to make a living.

and as far as whether or not they die right at the end, i think they survived. sarno left them and said "until that day...", meaning there would be a day when he comes to settle the score. it was a distorted sense of respect and honor he felt for longbaugh that prevented him from killing him right then and there. longbaugh and sarno were very much alike. they were both survivors.

Don Gwinn
May 5, 2003, 04:15 PM
Pangs of conscience, yes. But they do not become good people. They go out to take on the bagmen because they have to leave one way or the other. No, they could not hold Robin hostage. The bagmen would have killed them anyway. Remember that the bagmen do not have the option of allowing them to have the money, because it comes from "the worst" and the whole point is that Chiddick is dead if he gives them the money.

So they go out to the bar. From there, they must decide whether to go after the money or try to slip away in another direction. In the end, they decide to try to take the cheese out of the trap. But staying with Robin and using her as a hostage is not an option. Sarno is the only one of those bagmen who knows who Robin is or, likely, would care enough to put her ahead of his job. In fact, it's hard to prove from the film that even Sarno wouldn't let Robin die if he had to.

But you're right, Painter was in Baltimore, not Atlanta.

Everyone is going to see these things differently, but I don't think you can say that they left Robin at the end out of kindness. They did ask Sarno to let Robin and Painter stay together, but that didn't cost them anything.

"Until that day," in my mind, had nothing to do with revenge. Joe Sarno does not do threats of revenge unless business requires it. He made threats at the motel because his position allowed only that much, but he's a stoic survivor/killer. "Until that day" means that if there ever comes another day when they meet, maybe they can be friends. Those two spend all their scenes together wishing they didn't have to shoot each other.

spacemanspiff
May 5, 2003, 06:44 PM
i cant believe that no one on my P2P connections has this movie ripped and shared....

*kicking myself for deleting this movie from my harddrive a couple months ago....*

cool45auto
May 5, 2003, 07:39 PM
If you look closely after the remaining two bodygaurds leave the parking lot there is a woman face down in a pool of blood, a man trying to get up after he's been shot in the spine, a man trying to help his shot wife in a car and the two dead bodygaurds. I didn't catch half of this till I watched it with the commentary.

Admiral Thrawn
May 5, 2003, 11:41 PM
ok, so I was wrong about the bodies in front of the hospital (though at least two were definately bodyguards...)

anyway,

The part where Longbaugh says to Parker "she's had enough" when referring to Robin is his concious telling him to leave to poor girl alone: I don't think that they left her just because it would have been impossible to keep her hostage; doing so would have resulted in a shootout with the bagmen, which is what Parker and Longbaugh rushed headfirst into anyway when going for the money. Except the only difference is that they did it without Robin being in harm's way.

And "till that day" does refer to the day of reckoning that the bagman brings.

Remember how Joe was talking about "waking up one night and all you'll see is a pillow over your face and you'll hear a pop" outside the motel?

The reason Joe said "till that day" at the end of the film was because it simply wasn't Longbaugh's day to die.

"till the day I either have to kill you, you kill me or we make peace in better circumstances."

BowStreetRunner
May 7, 2003, 10:19 AM
for some reason I want to say they survived
I do wonder why Sarno (James Caan) tried to shoot them in the legs when he could have killed them
BSR

Scott Evans
May 7, 2003, 11:57 AM
- one-handed reloads
- tactical reloads
- one-handed chamber checks (very cool)
- IWB holsters
- longgun to pistol transitions
- room clearing
- team movement
- sniping with a spotter
- revolvers vs. autoloaders is a major plot device
- all the guns are cool


… but the story, script and acting were pathetic. If they could only work technical proficiency into a first rate film … that would be cool.

cordex
May 7, 2003, 01:58 PM
I do wonder why Sarno (James Caan) tried to shoot them in the legs when he could have killed them
Didn't torso-shoot 'em because he could see that they were wearing body armor. Might have tried a head shot but he would have had a greater chance of missing.
… but the story, script and acting were pathetic.
Story was a bit corny, but originally executed. I enjoyed much of the wordplay.
Acting varied character to character. Caan and Del Toro did an excellent job, I think.

BowStreetRunner
May 8, 2003, 12:40 AM
ah good call cordex on the body armor
and i agree that del toro and caan played well in the film
BSR

dog3
May 10, 2003, 12:09 PM
Well, I stopped by the video store, and found
a previewed copy of TWOTG for 10 buks.

Now it's on the shelf.

Went back and watched with a more critical
eye, and I retract all my critcism. I was way off
with the "zooming scope picture" criticism. In fact, it was better than any other representation
I have ever seen in a film.

Interesting, in the commentary, the technical
advisor for the weapons handling was one
of the principles brothers, who is Delta, (I think).

Don Gwinn
May 10, 2003, 03:01 PM
He was a SEEL. :D

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