Enfield Eddystone safety??(let one go in the house)


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aufevermike
February 18, 2006, 02:03 PM
Ok, I had this rifle for several years and have taken it hunting numerous time and it is a really great shooter. I had a bad experience with it just a month ago.
Please keep in mind that I am a very safety oriented. But this one could have killed my wife or chocolate lab, but luckily my safety insticts kicked in and I had it pointed in a safe direction(towards my picture window).
Here is what happened and I need to know if they all do this or is there something wrong with mine. I opened the bolt getting ready to put a round in the chamber. While the bolt was open my wife came up the stairs which put me in the safety zone so while the bolt was opened I put the safety on the gun and then proceded to close the bolt puting a round of the 30-06 in the chamber. Then I what happend next surprised the hell out of both of us and leaving a round in one of my logs, too bad it didn't hit my picture window cause I really need to replace it. what happened was as i took the safety of and the damn thing fired without pulling the trigger.

It wasn't long before I fiigured out (outside this time and with out ammo in the gun) was that this does it every time if the safety in put on mid action of putting a round in the cahmaber.

However as long as you put the safety on after the round enters the chamber all works as it should.

do all enfield eddystones do this.?

Please, if you are going to check if your's does it don't actually put a round in. You can tell if it will by doing the same test with out a sheel going in.

Thak You,
Mike

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22hipower
February 18, 2006, 02:10 PM
yes it is normal - y did you just leave the bolt open in the first place and you would not of fired a round in the house- no safty is 100%- the best safety is the one between your ears:) why were you you loading it in the house in the first place

aufevermike
February 18, 2006, 02:23 PM
What good is an unloaded gun? I leave and have all my guns loaded unless I am traveling to a hunting site. My wife is well oriented in firearms and we have no kids around. This is the first time in my life, I've been brought up around guns and safety was drilled in to my head since I was 6, so that would be for around 28 years that I have ever had a gun go off without wanting it too.
I do thank you for letting me know the info.

Mike

22hipower
February 18, 2006, 02:28 PM
i did not want to make you mad i was just curious y you were loading it .

thatguy
February 18, 2006, 02:28 PM
Sorry, but I would also have to question the necessity of having the chamber loaded before you plan to shoot. I don't know if this is a common thing with the 1917 or if there's a problem with your rifle. I would think that it should not go off when closing the bolt. This rilfe is almost 90 years old, no? Maybe something is worn or broken?

22hipower
February 18, 2006, 02:30 PM
any bolt will do it. the safty was in between safe and off

aufevermike
February 18, 2006, 02:52 PM
It doesn't do while closing the bolt. It did it while taking the safety off. I was puuting a round in it for the simple fact that I have always had my firearms loaded. I was loading after doing my routine maintanence cleanings.

I'm not mad at your curiosity of my loading a gun in the house. I was merely answering your question.
This is my largest caliber rifle and to be honest we have big furry animals mostly Moose and Brown Bear that can and have entered people homes through doors and windows. I was a boy scout, I'm always prepared.

I know I can't be the only one who keeps their weapons loaded at all times. To me this is a normal practice.

I once walked into a pawn shop with my shoulder holdered Anaconda coming strait from the range which was nextdoor without hesitation. The owner politely asked if it was load and of course I said "yes" and he didn't have a problem with that, although he added if I reached for it, he'd drop me..lol, not funny but I would have said the same thing. He then too said, what good was an unloaded gun. We had a great conversation although I didn't leave without any new guns taht day.

Cosmoline
February 18, 2006, 03:02 PM
Sure doesn't sound like normal behavior to me. But I don't have a P17 around to check.

Jim K
February 18, 2006, 03:27 PM
Sorry to join the chorus on this, but keeping all your firearms loaded may be OK if you are expecting a horde of terrorists to charge down your driveway, riding camels and swinging scimitars, but otherwise, it is asking for trouble, as you found out, fortunately without serious consequences.

Aside from that, NO, the Model 1917 should NOT do what yours did. When the safety is engaged with the bolt open, the bolt cannot close completely (the bolt handle lock won't let the handle go down all the way). When the safety is disengaged, the cocking piece drops on the cocking cam and sear, and won't go forward to fire the gun even if the trigger is held back while the safety is released. The safety notch in the bolt prevents the trigger from being pulled when the bolt is not fully locked.

This is, of course, if the rifle has not been "modified" or tampered with to "improve" it.

Jim

Thefabulousfink
February 18, 2006, 03:44 PM
I read this thread and had to get out my eddystone and take a look.

Yes, putting the saftey on when the bolt is open, then closing the bolt and removing the safety will cause the firing pin to slam forward. Odly enough, not all the way to the fired position. It apears that the safety catches on the bolt and holds it bach a good 1/8" farther than the normal cocked position. When you remove the safety the bolt moves forward that 1/8" with a loud bang (not boom, I wasn't testing w/ live rounds). The bolt still apears to be in firing position, but it will not fire if the trigger is pulled, you have to cycle the bolt again.

All I can say is that these are old rifles that were rushed into service to meet wartime demands, some bugs might have sliped by. Apart from the 4 rules, which it sounds like you were following, know the proper manual of arms for all your weapons and practice w/ and w/o live ammo.

Also, something I learnd rockclimbing which carries over: Never let youself be enerupted while performing task that could have dangerous results. In rockclimbing that was putting on your harness or tieing in, with firearms it would be any action dealing with live rounds. interuptions can cause you to miss important steps and lead to fatal results as you nearly learned.

Besides all that, I'm glad no one was hurt.

Edit: also My 1917 is an original that had a very good sporterize job done some 50 years ago, it may have been modified to close on a safety or not. If anyone else has an un-touched orriginal, mabey they can tell us if this is a rare glich or something that was fixed later.

Cosmoline
February 18, 2006, 03:52 PM
Yikes! That's one heck of a design flaw. I like my Mosins in this respect. There's nothing ambiguous about the safety.

OMCHamlin
February 18, 2006, 06:03 PM
Aufevermike,
You are saying you keep all of these:

Browning Buckmark Gold Trigger .22
Ruger Mark II .22
Colt Derringer .22
Colt Defender .45
Colt Government 1911 made in 1918 GI .45
Ruger Security 6 .357
Colt Anaconda .44
Winchester 62A .22
Remington 597 .22
Remington 870 Tactical Magnum OD
Winchester Trapper .44
Rossi 92 .45 LC
SMLE Mark III 303 British
Eddystone Sport 30.06
Ruger Mini-14 .223
Weatherby Vanguard 22-250
Wards Westernfield .22 (my very first)
Stevens 20g
Remington Model 9 Rider 16g
Remington magnum 870 Wingmaster 12g
Hawken BK Powder rifle .45

Loaded in your house, all the time?
Wow, I gotta say, it strikes me that you are headed (someday) for a tragic accident. I say this and will tell you honestly that I have several guns around my house fully loaded with the most effective stopping ammo available. But ALL of them? Really?? And please, feel free to tell me to mind my own business, but in a sense I feel as though I am, because every accidental shooting that results in a wounding or fatality by a gun owner, adds a black eye to our brotherhood of shooters, and tosses another statistic out there to be used by the anti's to try to bury us. Listen, I'm certain I can't cause you to reconsider your course of action as to keeping every gun you own loaded at all times, but hopefully some newby might read down this far and it will cause him to not follow your example.
Good luck,
OMC

alamo
February 18, 2006, 06:18 PM
I was thinking the same thing. That's a lot of loaded rifles/pistols lying around fully loaded.

aufevermike
February 18, 2006, 07:44 PM
Actually I do. Keeps me from thinking...."Is this loaded" All but two are in a safe.

aufevermike
February 18, 2006, 08:01 PM
Come on guys, most of you have a loaded gun in the house, don't you?
Yes they are all loaded (except the hawken and the 2 PD) but don't have one in the chamber. Like I said all but 2 are in a safe. The 2 are that are out do have a round in the chamber and are out of site. Please don't tell me that you don't keep you Home defense guns unloaded, it is however fine with me that you don't. It's none of my business.

I think I'll start a poll on who keeps a loaded gun in their house..***

Can we stick to the the safety concern of the 1917 enfield Eddystone?

aufevermike
February 18, 2006, 08:02 PM
I was thinking the same thing. That's a lot of loaded rifles/pistols lying around fully loaded.


Have you been to my house and seen them all lying around???

thatguy
February 18, 2006, 09:32 PM
Your guns to do with as you want but I think most firearms trainers suggest not leaving guns loaded gratuitously. You say that they are loaded to be ready for quick action, but then you say that all but two are in the safe. If they are in the safe they are hardly ready for quick action, are they?

Yes, I have loaded guns available. Two, to be exact. The rest are stored in an unloaded condition which I think is best.

The rule is to treat every gun AS IF IT IS LOADED, not necessarily HAVE EVERY GUN LOADED. Your decision as they are your guns and it's your house but it just sounds wrong to me.

aufevermike
February 18, 2006, 09:47 PM
Please feel free to take the poll under "General Gun Discussions"

It is listed as "guns in the cabinet or safe, loaded or unloaded. I too am shocked to see that so far more than 50% have them loaded.

I am fortunate enough to be able to step out side and safely fire a few rounds should I desire to do so. Or if I want to go hunting on my opwn property than all I have to do is grab and go.
I didn't mean to open a can of worms here. All I needed to know if it was normal for the Enfiled Eddystone to fire if the safe was put on during mid action of the bolt and once the safety is taken off for it to fire with out the pulling of the trigger.

Thank You,
Mike
As My Dad once said "Wilderness is Best"

Bwana John
February 18, 2006, 11:29 PM
First, we are talking about a U.S. Rifle, M-1917 Enfield, made by Eddystone, in 30-06 right?

If so, I believe that your rifle has been "bubbaized".

When the safety is enguaged, the bolt should not be able to be closed or opened. You were able to put the safety on and then close the bolt, Im pretty sure that shouldnt happen because of the nub that sticks out to lock the bolt closed.

Are the "ears" on the receiver ground off?
Does the bolt cock on opening or closing?
Does it have a aftermarket trigger?
Does it have a new stock?
Do all trigger parts clear wood and metal?

These rifles were "sporterized" by many people with little or no gunsmithing knowlage. I bubbaized one when I was 14. I would have the rifle checked out by a good smith.

I would also probley leave that one unloaded for a while.

I would think this discharge would be a compelling reason not to have all guns loaded, all the time. $#!t happens, why help out the odds?

bobsmith
February 18, 2006, 11:39 PM
Generally, most bolt actions have a notch in the bolt that allows the firing pin to go fully forward only when the bolt is in the locked position. As someone said, with the safety in the rearward position, the bolt handle cannot be brought down to the battery position which should prevent the firing pin from going all the way forward. Be aware, though, years ago Numrich sold cock on opening kit for 17 Enfield and if memory serves me correctly, the installation required that some grinding be done.

aufevermike
February 18, 2006, 11:59 PM
[QUOTE=Bwana John]First, we are talking about a U.S. Rifle, M-1917 Enfield, made by Eddystone, in 30-06 right?

Yes this is the one



Are the "ears" on the receiver ground off?..........NO
Does the bolt cock on opening or closing?......Closing
Does it have a aftermarket trigger?.....NO
Does it have a new stock?..........it has been spoterized
Do all trigger parts clear wood and metal?.....Yes

Seem to me that the conclusion is that some of these will so just as I explained and somke don't. quite possible as you stted weh it was sporterized that some things neededo be ground or worked.

Other than that the gun works perfectly including the safety after it has been cocked. But I did notice that the nub on the back of the bolt does extrude further when the safety is put on during mid action thani if you just close the bolt and are ready to fire.

Like other bolt actions it won't cock the gun if you hold the trigger while clothing the bolt.

Still mystified. i shall have it checked out.

bobsmith
February 19, 2006, 03:55 AM
[QUOTE=Bwana John] But I did notice that the nub on the back of the bolt does extrude further when the safety is put on during mid action thani if you just close the bolt and are ready to fire.That is normal because as you are closing the bolt, cocking piece is bearing up against the safety when the safety is in the rearward position. If you take the bolt out and move the safety to the rearward position, you will see that the safety sear (Is that what it's called?) pivots up into the groove that the cocking piece rides in.

buttrap
February 19, 2006, 05:31 AM
a good cure for that issue is just never use a saftey on a bolt gun. I look at them as a design defect. not to mention running rounds into the chamber and then hitting a saftey in doors too. I carry a bolt gun bolt down on a empty chamber...thinking about may need to take a shot its chambered round saftey off bolt handle up and not locked. only time I ever touch a saftey on one is out in the woods and pointed down range after not taking a shot for a min till I get to a good footing to clear the action is all.And then only if there is a big tree I can point at when flipping the saftey too.

buttrap
February 19, 2006, 05:31 AM
a good cure for that issue is just never use a saftey on a bolt gun. I look at them as a design defect. not to mention running rounds into the chamber and then hitting a saftey in doors too. I carry a bolt gun bolt down on a empty chamber...thinking about may need to take a shot its chambered round saftey off bolt handle up and not locked. only time I ever touch a saftey on one is out in the woods and pointed down range after not taking a shot for a min till I get to a good footing to clear the action is all.And then only if there is a big tree I can point at when flipping the saftey too.

dfaugh
February 19, 2006, 09:40 AM
Come on guys, most of you have a loaded gun in the house, don't you?

I don't keep any gun loaded at all times, in the house. Personally that's just an accident waiting to happen. Yes, the chances may be slim to none, but I don't see the need to take a chance. The guns I keep for HD are all magazine fed, and I keep loaded magazines handy. takes but a split second to slap in a mag, and chamber a round. And I can't see a bolt gun being of much use for HD, so definitely no reason to keep those loaded.

A while back, I was involved in a "high risk" situation, where my girlfriends ex-boyfriend, who was 1) known to be violent, 2) liked to get drunk and 3) owned multiple guns, had threatened me a couple of times. I then did keep a couple of the guns in condition 3, so I'd have slightly quicker access, but I'd never leave one in the chamber.

rbernie
February 19, 2006, 11:56 AM
I don't keep any gun loaded at all times, in the house. Personally that's just an accident waiting to happen.With all due respect, I personally think that's an INSANE perspective.

Of course they're dangerous when loaded - they're freakin' GUNS. They're SUPPOSED to be dangerous. Keeping them around unloaded so that you can pretend that they're rocks or clubs may make you feel better, but IMO it does two bad things - it allows you to get sloppy in your gun handling (different rules for range and home) and it keeps them from being guns and turns them into rocks or clubs.

Different strokes and all that, but I'd never question anyone for keeping loaded guns in the house so long as they're properly secured.

dfaugh
February 19, 2006, 12:35 PM
With all due respect, I personally think that's an INSANE perspective. Well...
Different strokes and all that, but I'd never question anyone for keeping loaded guns in the house so long as they're properly secured.

Not the first time I've been accused of being INSANE:D ...But, what I'm NOT is overly paranoid.:what:

But, the point is, in order to keep them readily accessible they are NOT put in a safe, nor do they have trigger locks installed, etc. I don't have to worry about small children, but my sons (21 and 23) do live with me, and they are well schooled in all safety aspects, as well how to use any gun I own. I also have 4 German Shepherds, that you REALLY don't wanna mess with (well 3 of 'em anyway), so I will have more that enough time to "lock and load" if need be.

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