Firearms while renting?


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sithanas
February 18, 2006, 03:19 PM
What would be the logical procedure for keeping firearms in an apartment that I'm renting? Should I just assume it's acceptable because there's nothing prohibiting it in my lease, or should I speak directly to the landlord(s) about it?

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Technosavant
February 18, 2006, 03:27 PM
If it is not specifically banned via the renter's agreement or state law, then it is a perfectly safe assumption that it is allowed. You don't need to ask permission for a plasma TV and home theater system, or for a high performance computer, or any other possession. About the only possession where permission might be required is pets.

As long as your guns don't pee on the floor, I wouldn't say one word to them about it. But I would keep them locked up- more people than just you have keys to the place.

eastwood44mag
February 18, 2006, 03:28 PM
Your guns do not exist. You have no guns. Do you understand?

The Real Hawkeye
February 18, 2006, 03:34 PM
Since landlords have the keys, and can enter at will, keep guns and other valuables locked up good and tight when you are not home. Otherwise, you certainly don't need to ask anyone for permission. It is assumed that every responsible and patriotic man in our nation owns at least some sort of gun. How could you be expected to be a valuable member of society without one? You are assumed to have permission to do and have all ordinary things unless specified otherwise in the lease agreement.

Meplat
February 18, 2006, 03:46 PM
As long as your guns don't pee on the floor, I wouldn't say one word to them about it.

I once had a Ruger that was prone to peeing on the floor. Gave it to my cousin, as I don't like him anyway. :)

But I would keep them locked up- more people than just you have keys to the place.

No kidding and amen to that. Once lived in an apartment where the manager was too lazy to go with the workmen to each appartment as the rules specified. Gave the entire keyboard with a key to every apartment in the place to a pumbing company (????????). Since they had an opportunity to case each and every appartment at leisure, they knew just where everything was. Lost a nice Dan Wesson to someone brazen enough to use my key, walk in after speaking to my neighbor, and place it down the front of his pants. Had that neighbor not seen him enter the appartment, I'm sure the deer rifle and the shotgun would have walked out with him too. The neighbor assumed that since he had a key, and didn't appear furtive in any way, that he was legit. Turns out he was legit, but only during working hours. After working hours, he was as illegitimate a ba....err...individual as you'd ever hope to NEVER meet.

And before any of those out there go ranting about me "not being responsible" about locking these arms in a super duper thief proof safe, I need to clarify that I was a young man with a wife and small child and was just starting out in life, and could not afford such luxuries as an expensive safe. Nor do I feel it incumbant upon a homeowner or renter to do anything other than lock his doors to prevent the theft of arms. Specifying expensive safes as mandatory for gun owners is just going to deprive some poor guy of a means to protect himself. These arms were all out of reach of my child at all times. I did my part. I refuse to accept blame for the actions of some reprobate criminal.

Having said that, if you can afford the means to lock your arms up, by all means do so. If you have a hiding place that you think thieves will never find, cool. Not much place in a 900 square foot apartment to hide something that a determined burglar can't find.

The Real Hawkeye
February 18, 2006, 03:57 PM
And before any of those out there go ranting about me "not being responsible" about locking these arms in a super duper thief proof safe, I need to clarify that I was a young man with a wife and small child and was just starting out in life, and could not afford such luxuries as an expensive safe. Nor do I feel it incumbant upon a homeowner or renter to do anything other than lock his doors to prevent the theft of arms. Specifying expensive safes as mandatory for gun owners is just going to deprive some poor guy of a means to protect himself. These arms were all out of reach of my child at all times. I did my part. I refuse to accept blame for the actions of some reprobate criminal.Few here would advocate REQUIRING a lockup. Many of us, however, would highly recommend, FOR YOUR BENEFIT, that you lock away your valuables, including valued guns, especially if you rent, because you are not the only one with access to a key to the front door. I am not a tyrant for saying that. I offer it as advice, so you don't lose any more of your guns that way. I really think you are off base with your tone in this regard.

Lou629
February 18, 2006, 04:05 PM
I rented apartments for more of my years than i'd care to count, and in all that time the issue only came up once, and it was more due to the landlords curiosity than anything to do with legality. If you have nothing to worry about from the standpoint of having done anything criminal and own the guns legally and within your state laws, then you have nothing to worry about.
In the one case where my landlord asked me a question about my guns, it was a case of having moved from a rural Pa. location to NYC for a few years on a job assignment. I don't think my landlord & lady ( very nice people btw ) had ever even seen a gun before this, and when i explained to her and her hubby that the one she happened to see was one of a small collection, her eyes went like this ...:what: ...literally, and i damn-near died keeping myself from laughing out loud.

....PS- it all worked out great btw. I lived in their apt. for more than three years, and they told me when i was moving out that they had never felt more secure knowing that i was downstairs...

glockamolee
February 18, 2006, 04:26 PM
Your guns do not exist. You have no guns. Do you understand?

A M E N BROTHER!!!!!!!!!


Never volunteer that fact (with the exception of government forced background checks when purchasing through an FFL).

NO ONE else needs to know.

If the lease says no guns, bring em in and hide em anyhow. You have a RIGHT to self defense/gun ownership. If George Jefferson doesn't like it... too bad.

Meplat
February 18, 2006, 06:52 PM
Few hear would advocate REQUIRING a lockup. Many of us, however, would highly recommend, FOR YOUR BENEFIT, that you lock away your valuables, including valued guns, especially if you rent, because you are not the only one with access to a key to the front door. I am not a tyrant for saying that. I offer it as advice, so you don't lose any more of your guns that way.

It appears I owe you at least a sincere apology if you thought I was addressing my part of the post at you personally about the locking up the firearms part of your post. I agree with you wholeheartedly that is a GOOD thing to do IF you have the resources to make it happen. I never meant to imply that you and I were in disagreement. What I have seen here in the forum from several though is the direct statement that anyone who can't secure their arms in a "thief proof" environment (whatever the hell that is) shouldn't be allowed to own them. I honestly never meant in any way to imply that YOU were being a tyrant for stating a plain fact (that it IS better to lock them up and the whole "you aren't the only one with a key to your door" thing). In that, you are 100% correct. I was just anticipating responses that I had gotten from others on this board in the past. I truly am sorry if I came across as directing it at you, as that is not how the post was intended at all.

FWIW, I am no longer in the position of a young man struggling to raise a family in the entry level world. I can afford to lock my guns in a decent safe, and do so. And I no longer rent. The only ones NOT locked up are the one I happen to have on me (or at hand) at the time, and old parts guns that I have accumulated over the years, and those are left in an old style wooden display cabinet with glass doors as "decoys". None of them can fire or be made to fire. The safe containing the good stuff is as hidden and unobtrusive as I can make it...but I am still aware that to an industrious and determined thief that is but just a stopgap measure. It will deter the amatures though, and so is a good thing.

I really think you are off base with your tone in this regard.

Once again, if my tone was unclear as to who it was directed towards, I apologize. It was not in my mind to make you think that was the case. To those it was actually intended towards though, I make no apologies for said tone. I was addressing those at large who take the stance that if you can't lock 'em up in some manner that there is NO WAY for a thief to get at 'em, you shouldn't have 'em. I've seen enough of those posts in this forum to know that it is a valid concern. Not from you, sir, and if I came across that way, then I am sorry.

Leatherneck
February 18, 2006, 07:10 PM
Two thoughts:
Concealed means concealed.
Responsible gun owners secure their guns.

TC

sithanas
February 18, 2006, 07:30 PM
Your guns do not exist. You have no guns. Do you understand?

These aren't the droids you're looking for, either.:neener:

Thanks for all the advice, guys.

AirForceShooter
February 18, 2006, 07:36 PM
if you ever catch your landlord just looking around the inside of your apartment call the cops.
He does NOT have the right to enter on a whim or to search.

AFS

The Real Hawkeye
February 18, 2006, 07:48 PM
Thanks, Meplat. I see what you are saying now. Good point. Most folks here would agree with you, I think.

Leatherneck, don't you think that you might be slightly overstating your position? Many of us grew up in households where guns were on the walls, over fireplaces, or in wooden furniture gun cabinets, which may or may not have been locked, and even if locked, would not present much of a challenge to a determined thief. We never used to call people who stored like that irresponsible gun owners. Folks who steel are where our anger should be rightly directed, rather than at each other. I have three gun safes, but I must admit that at any given time, quite a few of my guns are leaning against walls. I have a dog that inspires fear in your average punk, and I have a lock on all my doors, so I feel that they are well secured, at least well enough for me. Now, if I go on vacation, or even spend a weekend away, with the dog in the kennel or with me, then I cram them all in the safes, no question about it. I just think your position is over stated, and was wondering if you were sure you didn't want to tone it down a bit, maybe not be so universal in your condemnations of so many people who, just a few decades ago, were considered upstanding and responsible gun owners. Just maybe you have been influenced a bit too much by the gun banners who are eager to move us ever so gradually, step by step, incrementally, towards lock-up-your-guns laws, like they have in the UK. The first step in their plan is to create the general impression, even among gun people, that unless all your guns are locked up, you are an irresponsible gun owner. So maybe we shouldn't be helping them out with such blanket statements as you've made. Yes, it's a darn good idea to have gun safes, and to lock your guns, and other valuables in there when you can't supervise them, but lets keep in perspective that this is primarily for the security of our valuables, guns included, and only secondarily for other reasons. Thieves are the ones at fault when they steal guns from people's houses and bad things follow. I think we should keep that fact clear in our minds in any discussion of securing our firearms. Just my opinion.

MechAg94
February 18, 2006, 08:01 PM
Two thoughts:
Concealed means concealed.
Responsible gun owners secure their guns.

TC
That is true, but you don't necessarily need a safe. Anything from keeping them out of plain sight to trigger locks to some sort of lock box. Anything to make it more difficult for someone to see them or take them. A safe is best, but there are other options short of that.

creitzel
February 18, 2006, 08:48 PM
if you ever catch your landlord just looking around the inside of your apartment call the cops.
He does NOT have the right to enter on a whim or to search.

AFS

I'll second that. I own a house that I rent out here in Michigan. The law requires me to send a written notice to my tenants anytime I intend to enter the property. They are also allowed to be there anytime I enter the property.

As to the original question, if your rental agreement/lease doesn't explicitly state that firearms are not allowed, then they are allowed. The only exception to this may be if you didn't own them legally. I routinely add a clause to my rental agreements that states that the tenants will not use the property to break any laws.

Chris

Meplat
February 18, 2006, 08:53 PM
Two thoughts:
Concealed means concealed.
Responsible gun owners secure their guns.

TC

Would you care to define "secured" as it relates to gun ownership?

I secure my car by removing the keys from the ignition and locking my doors. Am I an "irresponsible" car (okay, truck) owner because I can't afford a three or four thousand dollar alarm system to keep people who are REALLY irresponsible from stealing it and using it to run over innocent people? Should all people who can't afford such systems be removed from the roads and their vehicles confiscated?

I secured my revolver in the first post to the best of the means available to me at the time. I could not afford a $4,000.00 gun safe. Hell, I had to save for quite a while and do without just to scrape up the initial purchase price of the handgun up to begin with. I had the arm in as inconspicuous as possible a place as I could find, and had locked my doors. Should my right to protect myself and my family in my home have been revoked because I didn't have the financial ability at the time to make it "impossible" for some slime bucket to illegally enter my home and take it?

I've seen several others on here post that even the $4000-$5000 gun safes aren't "safe" enough to suit them. What is your cut off point for financial status before you blame the scum instead of the rightful owner?

Have YOU spent the $40,000.00 or so required to REALLY secure YOUR firearms from a determined, professional thief? Hope so. Would hate to think that someone would see you in an "irresponsible" light and want to deny you the "privilege" of self defense.

Berek
February 18, 2006, 09:30 PM
My landlord knows I have firearms and that I reload. He gave direct permission for my area in the basement. What I think is funny is that he asked how many cans of powder I keep on hand (mighta forgot a pound er two in the calculations... :D ) but he never asked about the parachute flare box next to the reloading bench... that is full (and I mean FULL) of ammunition... Go figure...

He only asked how many cans... not how many rounds... or boxes... or cases... or....

F4GIB
February 18, 2006, 09:38 PM
This will hide and secure your guns and other valuables ("camera" collection, back-up computer disks, Grandma's silver tea set, and so forth). Landlord has no right to look in it. This will fit IN a closet (hide behind clothes).

Only $114.95

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=12752154

cbsbyte
February 18, 2006, 10:14 PM
Do not assume anything when dealing in legal issues. Check your local laws. In some states, and cities you are required to notify the land lords that you own firearms prior to signing the lease. They might even have a right to refuse to lease to you. Failure to do so, could void your contract or worse have you thrown out.

albanian
February 18, 2006, 10:19 PM
While I was renting, I only had a few guns because I didn't like the fact that anyone could enter my home when I was away. I never felt like it was my home anyway. I would come home and some work would have been done or a note was on my table saying that they were in my place to check the vents or some BS. I hated it. I thought they had to warn you before they entered your house.

Buying a house was one of the best things I ever did. Nobody comes in unless I invite them in. I don't let anyone have a key to my place and never allow workmen to roam around unless I am home.

I feel for you about renting though. My advice is not to say anything but keep records of what you have with SN#s in case someone steals your guns. Basically as a renter, you have all the rights to privacy as a person who owns their house but it doesn't always work out that way in real life. Keep only a few guns until you can buy a house and then go nuts like I did!

Meplat
February 18, 2006, 11:32 PM
I feel for you about renting though. My advice is not to say anything but keep records of what you have with SN#s in case someone steals your guns. Basically as a renter, you have all the rights to privacy as a person who owns their house but it doesn't always work out that way in real life. Keep only a few guns until you can buy a house and then go nuts like I did!

Albanian, in the earlier case I mentioned, I had done just that. Since my lease specifically told me that NO ONE would be allowed to enter my apartment without a manager accompanying them (not a legal requirement here, but it was a lease stipulation) and they had turned a plumbing company loose with a board full of keys and carte blanche to do anything and everything, they reluctantly agreed to pay me a "depreciated" value for my revolver. Said "No go. Replacement cost and new locks by the end of next business working day, or they could deal with my lawyer, who would also be pursuing extra renumeration for the mental anguish of a young wife who's husband was working many late hours and had to sit and wonder just what scumwad had a key to her domicile."

The locks were changed the next day, and I had a check for the full replacement value of the Dan Wesson.

Edited for futher content:

I'd like to note that all I had asked for was full replacement cost and new locks to begin with, and wasn't interested in "making" any money off of their idiocy. They forced me into upping the ante.

Meplat
February 18, 2006, 11:54 PM
This will hide and secure your guns and other valuables ("camera" collection, back-up computer disks, Grandma's silver tea set, and so forth). Landlord has no right to look in it. This will fit IN a closet (hide behind clothes).

Only $114.95

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=12752154

While this is much better than nothing, and would (might) deter a young burglar from breaking into it, there are still millions of hard working people for who $115.00 is still quite a stretch. When one has to make a decision to put off a bill collector or two in order to pay for a firearm for protection, an extra $115 could be the difference between a single mom who is naked to aggression and a woman prepared and able to defend her family. My safe is in a closet, too, and concealed behind clothes, and a climbing stand, etc. (large closet :) ) Landlords here (I had rental properties until I got sick of trying to catch up to people who were busy trying to avoid me) has no right to "look" into anything...closets, drawers, cupboards...unless it is directly related to the maintainence of the property. No prior notification required before entry, just a knock to see if someone is home. Despite this, I NEVER entered a rental without first notifying my tenant. Just the moral thing to do in my view. The only exception I would have made to this was in the case of an emergency, such as a fire. Never had to use that.

My first appartment was an anti-bellum style home spit into multiple units. I worked nights, and arose around nine in the morning. My landlady at the time didn't have the same moral compunctions, and scheduled some workmen to come in and paint the living room, not knowing my schedule. I was heading for the shower, heard my front door opening, and headed down the hall. I greeted the painter with a shotgun port arms. He dropped the paraphanelia he was carrying, turned, and beat a hasty retreat. Something about a naked man with a twelve gauge didn't appeal to him apparently. Landlady always called me when workmen were going to show up after that. Did NOT threaten him, point the weapon at him, or intentionally scare him in any manner. I was new to that whole thing, and if anyone was frightened, it was me for awakening to the sounds of someone unknown entering my home.

Cuda
February 19, 2006, 01:20 AM
if you ever catch your landlord just looking around the inside of your apartment call the cops.
He does NOT have the right to enter on a whim or to search.

AFS


Absolutly. The landlord must give you notice before coming into the place. He may own the property but you pay for the right to live there. As a landlord in Colorado I have to have damn good reason to enter the property with out the tenants knowledge and if I think something bad has happened I would call the police to escort me just in case. One thing to remember in Colorado a mans home or rental is his castle and walking in uninvited could cause you some serious health problems..

C

Trebor
February 19, 2006, 05:50 AM
Look at your lease. If it's not prohibited, it's allowed. No reason to mention it to your landlord.

Also, this isn't University owned housing in any way, correct? MSU prohibits firearms in all it's properties and they have the legal authority to back that up.

joab
February 19, 2006, 09:01 AM
I was an apartment dweller for over twenty years, until I was bullied into buying a house a couple of years ago. I never informed the management or gave them a list of my stealable items. If it doesn't effect their everyday lives or potentially damage their property it is none of their business.

Laws may differ in your state but in Fla there is no duty to inform landlords about anything and landlords must give a 24 hour notice before entering your apartment.

Many people will routinely enter your apartment though, people who may or may not be as honest as you would like them to be.
Back when I was doing pest control for apartment complexes I could have cleaned up if I was a practicing dishonest sort and have had to fire some people that were..

If you cannot afford some kind of lock up then hide the gun.
Think of the best place you can to hide it, then pick someplace else because I already know that one.

Meplat
February 19, 2006, 11:59 AM
Absolutly. The landlord must give you notice before coming into the place. He may own the property but you pay for the right to live there. As a landlord in Colorado I have to have damn good reason to enter the property with out the tenants knowledge and if I think something bad has happened I would call the police to escort me just in case. One thing to remember in Colorado a mans home or rental is his castle and walking in uninvited could cause you some serious health problems..

C

Cuda, you are 100% correct about the potential health problems, but alas, incorrect about notice -depending on where you live. If the law states that in Colorado, then that is to to the good - it SHOULD everywhere. It does not state that in Mississippi, though. Been both a renter and a landlord here. Have NO desire to walk in to anyone's home without giving prior notice, with one of the reasons being the one you gave above. Another being the fact that prior notice is just the decent thing to do. Prudent, too. :)

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