Citizen aids cop, shoots attacker (multiple threads merged)


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CentralTexas
February 18, 2006, 11:22 PM
http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/2332991.htmlTraffic stop turns violent

Gunfire kills businessman

By KIMBERLY VETTER AND MARK F. BONNER
Advocate staff writers
Published: Feb 18, 2006


Advocate staff photo by LIZ CONDO
East Baton Rouge Parish Sheriff’s Office Crime Scene investigator Van Calhoun investigates the scene of a shooting Friday at Greenwell Springs and Joor Road.

A local businessman was shot dead in a parking lot Friday after a scuffle with a 32-year-old Baton Rouge police officer.

Investigators are unsure if the shots that killed the victim came from the police officer’s gun, or from a witness who, after hearing the officer yell for help, grabbed his own weapon and fired.

“At this point, there was enough gunfire in the air that we aren’t sure who delivered the fatal shot to the victim,” said Fred Raiford, East Baton Rouge Parish Sheriff’s Office spokesman.

An autopsy is scheduled for 10 a.m. today, Raiford said, which should reveal who fired the shot that killed 24-year-old George Temple II.

There is no indication that Temple, was armed, Raiford said.

Temple owned Expert Sound, 7221 Airline Highway, friends said.

The identities of the police officer and the other man involved were not released Friday.

Sgt. Don Kelly of the Baton Rouge Police Department said it is department policy not to release the name of an officer involved in a shooting until 24 hours after the incident.

The shooting occurred about 2:15 p.m. in the parking lot of the AutoZone at 9007 Greenwell Springs Road at the intersection of Joor Road.

Temple’s body lay under a blue tarp next to his black Mercedes S550 while deputies investigated the scene, one arm sticking out from under the cover.

Kelly said the officer was off-duty and working as a motorcycle escort for a funeral procession going westbound on Greenwell Springs Road. The officer pulled Temple into the parking lot for a traffic violation. The procession never stopped, Kelly said.

“The ticket was written, a verbal shouting match took place and then it turned physical,” Raiford said.

Temple punched the officer several times in the face, according to Raiford, and the officer hollered for help before shots were fired.

After hearing the shots, a customer walking out of AutoZone got one of the two guns in his car, Raiford said, and began firing.

Although Raiford said he is not sure how many shots hit Temple, he knows the witness fired three shots and the police officer fired two.

He said the witness had two different guns in his car, but that he doesn’t “know what caliber they were and I don’t know which one he used. I don’t even know if they were handguns.”

Kelly said police officers usually carry one of two different firearms, a .40-caliber or 9 mm handgun.

The witness was interviewed at the East Baton Rouge Parish Sheriff’s Office. Raiford would not say if he could face charges.

“We have not had the opportunity to interview the officer at this point,” he said. “We’d like to do that before releasing more information on what actually happened out here.”

Kelly said the officer, who has been with the department for 4‰ years, is in good condition at Our Lady of the Lake Regional Medical Center, and was expected to be released late Friday.

He was treated for face contusions and possibly a fractured jaw, Kelly said.

Because the officer’s weapon was discharged, Kelly said the Police Department would conduct an administrative and internal investigation.

Temple’s friend, Willie Parker, said Temple liked to box, had a year-old child and was attending Southern University.

“He was a successful man trying to make it in life,” Parker, 22, said. “He always worked hard for what he had; a lot of people love him; it’s sad.”

Other friends said Temple, a 1999 graduate of Glen Oaks High School, was a quiet man.

According to court records, Temple was on probation for simple battery and simple damage to property at the time of his death.

A case against him also was pending involving counts of simple battery, simple trespassing and simple criminal damage to property, according to records at the Clerk of Court’s office.

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Hawkmoon
February 18, 2006, 11:37 PM
Other friends said Temple, a 1999 graduate of Glen Oaks High School, was a quiet man.

According to court records, Temple was on probation for simple battery and simple damage to property at the time of his death.

A case against him also was pending involving counts of simple battery, simple trespassing and simple criminal damage to property, according to records at the Clerk of Court’s office.
As usual, a massive disconnect between the description from his friends, and the actual record.

Maybe they mean he beats people up quietly?

ozarkhillbilly
February 18, 2006, 11:41 PM
According to court records, Temple was on probation for simple battery and simple damage to property at the time of his death.

A case against him also was pending involving counts of simple battery, simple trespassing and simple criminal damage to property, according to records at the Clerk of Court’s office.

Sounds like the man had a temper and it caught up with him.

Highland Ranger
February 18, 2006, 11:44 PM
interesting to see what other facts come out

hope the samaritan, well, was one and if he was, hope he doesn't regret it

Maxwell
February 19, 2006, 12:53 AM
Well, my two observations:
1) An officer dosnt spend a week(?) in the hospital for minor injuries after a normal scuffle.
2) "Simple" battery, tresspassing, or damage to property... burgalar?

Sounds like an attack of the Altar boy. A great and lovely man who was just teaching kittens how to read and only beats the snot out of people on his off hours.
He was hitting the officer long enough for someone to see it, get to their car, fetch a weapon, then come back and shoot him.

lamazza
February 19, 2006, 12:54 AM
Why?? would he pull someone over for a traffic violation..when
Off duty
working in a funeral procession..
why why why

Art Eatman
February 19, 2006, 01:02 AM
lamazza, you'll have to ask the officer. Odds are it's because the guy did something serious enough for the officer to leave the funeral procession.

FWIW, in some places, it's not only against the law to pass a funeral procession, it's gonna generate some serious passion about disrespect of the dead. Could be that 's the "why". We have no way of knowing until more infio comes out.

Art

beerslurpy
February 19, 2006, 01:07 AM
I am usually the last to cheer when cops get away with shooting people, but this one has a justifiable smell to it. I never got a broken jaw and a week in the hospital from a shouting match or even a fistfight. That is some serious hostility manifesting itself there.

That being said, what is a "possibly broken jaw"? Dont they have X Ray machines in louisiana?

Yay for investigations, they save us the trouble of guessing.

MechAg94
February 19, 2006, 01:56 AM
Usually the information doesn't lend itself to favoring the LEO so well. Hope this all works out okay for the witness. Glad to see there was someone there to help the officer.

Typical newswriter formula. He finds someone to give some glowing memory of the guy to put in the article so everyone can feel sorry for the dead guy. He could have just come down the road from killing a bus load of children and they would still do that.

My biggest complaint about this article is that you have to read almost 1/2 way down the article before it really comes out and SAYS that the officer was off duty but still in uniform and pulling the guy over. There is a lot of BS before there where you are trying to figure out why this successful guy was shot.

Mad Chemist
February 19, 2006, 02:25 AM
I wonder if it was some sort of road rage incident that led to this? There should be a large number of witnesses, due to the procession.

JH

cracked butt
February 19, 2006, 06:28 AM
Temple’s body lay under a blue tarp next to his black Mercedes S550 while deputies investigated the scene
Temple owned Expert Sound, 7221 Airline Highway, friends said.


lamazza, you'll have to ask the officer. Odds are it's because the guy did something serious enough for the officer to leave the funeral procession.

FWIW, in some places, it's not only against the law to pass a funeral procession, it's gonna generate some serious passion about disrespect of the dead. Could be that 's the "why". We have no way of knowing until more infio comes out.


I think Art Eatman is on to something here. Blinging car. Owner of an audio shop that is in his early 20s. I wouldn't have a hard time drawing a conclusion about what happened.

Optical Serenity
February 19, 2006, 07:07 AM
Off duty, but working a procession means he was there for the escort. You will be pulled over in a heart beat and cited if you decide to "break a procession" here in GA. The "off duty" officer is in uniform and in a patrol car and has every reason to stop you.

Good shot.

Lupinus
February 19, 2006, 09:52 AM
Good shoot

And it is nice to see a police officer willing to call for help from bystanders when he needs it, something we don't see enough of IMO.

As for pulling over, normally I would be agianst a police officer pulling someone over when off dut. But in this case he had a police vehicle, was in uniform, and even though off duty was with a funeral procession working as an escort, doesn't say if it was for an officer or not but either way he was still working in some official capacity even if technicly off duty.

TallPine
February 19, 2006, 01:35 PM
I'm going to take a guess here that the "local businessman" also sold some other products than just sound equipment, and probably was using some of that merchandise for his own use ....;)

Anyway, I hope the "good samaritan" doesn't get hurt legally for his efforts at helping the officer.

svtruth
February 19, 2006, 01:57 PM
"grabbed one of two guns in his car"

Autolycus
February 19, 2006, 03:31 PM
So you are going to make assumptions that the kid was a drugdealer because he owned an audio business and drove a Benz?

Here is a little further reading ------> http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/2335111.html

The other guy had a few guns in his car. Can we pass judgment on him? Around where I am from your a sicko redneck KKK member looking to shoot minorities if you carry a gun in your car. (I am from Chicagos suburbs.)

I am not saying the person who got shot was a good person but we cant just assume that he is anything other than a dumbass who attacked a cop. We do not know why he was getting pulled over. All we know is that the cop wanted to cite him. I would wait and see the entire story before passing judgment on the character of the guy.

joebogey
February 19, 2006, 04:07 PM
The other guy had a few guns in his car. Can we pass judgment on him? Around where I am from your a sicko redneck KKK member looking to shoot minorities if you carry a gun in your car. (I am from Chicagos suburbs.)


I hate to think what that would make me. My wife had to remove 3 guns from the truck so she could drive it to school. :D

TallPine
February 19, 2006, 05:23 PM
So you are going to make assumptions that the kid was a drugdealer because he owned an audio business and drove a Benz?
No, I am making the guess that the kid was a drugdealer/user because he owned an audio business and drove a Benz, had a history of violence, and attacked a cop merely because he had been pulled over and issued a ticket.:p

Or maybe like you say, he is just a garden variety dumbass ...

asknight
February 19, 2006, 06:01 PM
I don't know about LA, but here in AR you are a LEO with full responsibilities, whether off-duty or on. You are a legally mandated reporter and enforcer of all laws and codes at all times.

I say good shot to both the LEO and responding citizen who helped assist the officer in this case. Perhaps LA will be able to step-aside of the rumored corruption and honor these guys for the heros that they are and not lay charges on either of them.

TexasRifleman
February 19, 2006, 06:23 PM
Around where I am from your a sicko redneck KKK member looking to shoot minorities if you carry a gun in your car. (I am from Chicagos suburbs.)



You wouldn't like Texans very much then.....

Exposure
February 19, 2006, 07:03 PM
I think Art Eatman is on to something here. Blinging car. Owner of an audio shop that is in his early 20s. I wouldn't have a hard time drawing a conclusion about what happened.


Amazing, I thought this was supposed to be "The High Road"


EDIT: I may be mistaken about your post cracked butt. However, it comes across as a racially biased. If your post was sarcastic and not racist then you have my apologies.

Monkeyleg
February 19, 2006, 07:31 PM
Why don't we wait for the results of the report before arguing with each other? Much too sketchy right now.

Hawkmoon
February 19, 2006, 07:36 PM
Off duty, but working a procession means he was there for the escort. You will be pulled over in a heart beat and cited if you decide to "break a procession" here in GA. The "off duty" officer is in uniform and in a patrol car and has every reason to stop you.
As usual, the "journalist" used the wrong term. The officer was in uniform and performing a function. He wasn't "off-duty," he was working an "extra duty assignment."

Media :barf: :barf: :banghead: :barf:

musher
February 19, 2006, 07:43 PM
<homer>But I want to argue now...</homer>

Sounds like the request for help from the officer isn't under debate. Hopefully this will protect the samaritan.

It seems like you can't really argue that he overreacted, since the professional who called for help was shooting as well.

Bob41081
February 19, 2006, 07:55 PM
TxSigman,
I just glad I don't live in Daly's peoples' republic of Illinois. In some parts of the US Tecumseh people can carry guns in thier car and not worry about it.
Texas for instance.

Bob

jlbraun
February 19, 2006, 08:02 PM
Amazing, I thought this was supposed to be "The High Road"


EDIT: I may be mistaken about your post cracked butt. However, it comes across as a racially biased. If your post was sarcastic and not racist then you have my apologies.

I agree that it's racially biased. Most owners of audio stores are probably white, therefore it's absolutely biased against white people.

...or I may have missed something. Help? :evil:

cracked butt
February 19, 2006, 08:35 PM
Amazing, I thought this was supposed to be "The High Road"


EDIT: I may be mistaken about your post cracked butt. However, it comes across as a racially biased. If your post was sarcastic and not racist then you have my apologies.

No RACIAL bias on my part, nor sarcasm, until I read a link posted by another member here, I assumed the perp was white. The only bias I had in reading the story was a young man owning a $60,000 car which probably had a souped up stereo in it which I could easily imagine being turned up way too high and disturbing a funeral procession. 10 years ago when I was his age, I would have had a big stereo in my car and would have 'needed' to share my music with the world whether they liked it or not.

At any rate I will not appologize for using common sense in adding 2+2 to get 4. The race of the man who was shot makes no difference in this case whatsoever. The people who want to race bait or make a racial issue out of every time a cop has to defend himself with his duty weapon can go pound sand.

cliffstanc
February 19, 2006, 10:56 PM
<homer>But I want to argue now...</homer>

Sounds like the request for help from the officer isn't under debate. Hopefully this will protect the samaritan.

It seems like you can't really argue that he overreacted, since the professional who called for help was shooting as well.

I don't know what the law in Louisiana is, but I'd guess they've got some sort of statute covering private citizens assisting officers. Just for interest here is NC's:

15A-405. Assistance to law-enforcement officers by private persons to effect arrest or prevent escape; benefits for private persons.
(a) Assistance upon Request; Authority. – Private persons may assist law-enforcement officers in effecting arrests and preventing escapes from custody when requested to do so by the officer. When so requested, a private person has the same authority to effect an arrest or prevent escape from custody as the officer making the request. He does not incur civil or criminal liability for an invalid arrest unless he knows the arrest to be invalid. Nothing in this subsection constitutes justification for willful, malicious or criminally negligent conduct by such person which injures or endangers any person or property, nor shall it be construed to excuse or justify the use of unreasonable or excessive force.

Note the last sentence - it's not carte blanche authority to go shooting up perps willy-nilly. But it does offer significant liability protection to the responding private citizen.

Amusingly (or maybe not), the next bit mentions that people assisting LEOs under this article are entitled to both LEO death benefits and workman's comp. Not that I'd want to test that out!

- Cliff

A. Patriot
February 20, 2006, 06:44 PM
http://www.wjbo.com/pages/localnews.html?feed=119442&article=401589

Sheriff's Office: Bystanders Bullet Kills Man

Charges will not filed against Perry Stevens, who shot and killed 24 year old George Temple II
Monday, February 20, 2006
Temple was shot Friday after getting into an altercation with a Baton Rouge policeman. The Sheriff's office - who investigated the shooting - said today that a total of six shots hit Temple: 1 shot from the police officer and 5 shots from the bystander, Mr. Stevens. Police would not say what sparked the argument that lead to the scuffle.

scout26
February 20, 2006, 08:57 PM
Hmmm, BG beats snot out of cop, cop calls for help. Cop shoots and GS shoots. Per the story: cop fired twice, GS fired 3 times. BG hit once by cop, FIVE times by GS.

Cop needs to spend more time at range, and I want shooting lessons from GS !!!!

Stoopid reporters :banghead: :cuss: :fire:


And as an FYI for everyone who does NOT live in or near the Chicagoland area. Telling people you own firearms, most will think you like to kick puppies. Telling them that you like to shoot and they will look at you like you set kittens on fire. Tell them that you hunt and they will think that also eat small children. *Sigh*

Vex
February 20, 2006, 09:02 PM
If one bullet goes in the left arm, out the left arm, in the left torso, out the right torso, in the right arm, and stops... is it considered 3 hits?

TrybalRage
February 21, 2006, 08:38 AM
http://www.wafb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4527526

...That's when Stevens went to his car and grabbed his .45 caliber pistol.

According to Col. Greg Phares, "[Mr. Stevens] orders Mr. Temple to stop and get off the officer. The verbal commands are ignored and Mr. Stevens fires four shots, all of which struck Mr. Temple."

Perry Stevens fired four shots into Temple's torso. Officer Harrison had already fired one shot into Temple's abdomen. With Temple still struggling with the officer, Perry continued to advance toward the scuffle.

"He again orders Mr. Temple to stop what he was doing and get off the officer. Those commands are ignored and he fires a fifth shot and that hits his head.The incident is over with, and as you know, Mr. Temple is dead."

Shoulda walked around to see what was holding him up...




:neener:

Good shoot, score 1 for the good guys. I hope he isn't having problems with his actions.

Maxwell
February 21, 2006, 09:42 AM
Cop needs to spend more time at range

Pistols arnt a weapon for melee combat. If someone gets in your face, your chance for making nice clean shots is zero. Its an important lesson on how one man with a gun is not as good as two men with guns.

From what Ive read, I think the bystander deserves a medal.

shield20
February 21, 2006, 09:43 AM
Good follow-up. Sounds like the GS did everything reasonable and correct. Wonder if this "armed citizen assists cop" will get any play in the msm.

Trip20
February 21, 2006, 09:56 AM
I think Art Eatman is on to something here. Blinging car. Owner of an audio shop that is in his early 20s. I wouldn't have a hard time drawing a conclusion about what happened.



Amazing, I thought this was supposed to be "The High Road"

EDIT: I may be mistaken about your post cracked butt. However, it comes across as a racially biased. If your post was sarcastic and not racist then you have my apologies.

Out on a witch hunt for the xenophobes...?

The article referred to the dead man as a "local business man" and then by his name, "George Temple II." The article did not refer to George Temple II as a "local black man," or any other minority.

Your own typecasts have made you presuppose the story is about a minority - and therefore accuse another’s comments of containing bigotry - again due to your own stereotypes.

Neat.

Charles S
February 21, 2006, 10:07 AM
Dont they have X Ray machines in louisiana?

LMA, Only in parts of Louisiana. (I am from LA I can make fun of it).

TxSigman,
I just glad I don't live in Daly's peoples' republic of Illinois. In some parts of the US Tecumseh people can carry guns in thier car and not worry about it.
Texas for instance.

+1

At any point in time I may have a handgun or two in the lockbox of my truck, and it is not unusual for me to have a rifle/shotgun or both. I like to shoot and I do not want to have to go to the house and open the gun safe every time I am ready to shoot. Counting the gun I wear on my person it is not unusual for there to be 4-5 guns in my truck.

Charles

one-shot-one
February 21, 2006, 11:08 AM
I think Art Eatman is on to something here. Blinging car. Owner of an audio shop that is in his early 20s. I wouldn't have a hard time drawing a conclusion about what happened.

something is wrong with me, my first thought at this was he had a high dollar sterio in that benz turned way up and not paying attention to his driving. guess i've been away from the drugie seen to long!

A. Patriot
February 21, 2006, 11:29 AM
http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/2340841.html


Bystander fired fatal shot in Friday incident

By BRETT TROXLER
2theadvocate.com Staff
Published: Feb 20, 2006

From a report by News 2's Ken Pastorick

Advocate staff photo by Liz Condo

East Baton Rouge Parish Sheriff's Crime Scene Investigator Van Calhoun investigates the scene at the corner of Greenwell Springs and Joor in Baton Rouge Friday where a man was shot and killed by a bystander during an altercation with a police officer.

The East Baton Rouge Parish Sherrif's Office announced Monday that the gunshot that left one man dead after an altercation with a Baton Rouge Police Department officer was fired by a bystander trying to help.

Officer Brian Harrison pulled 24-year-old George Temple over after he cut off a funeral procession. After Harrison pulled Temple over and wrote him a ticket, the two began to fight. Temple got the best of the officer and was on top of him, and Harrison called for help.

Perry Stephens came to Harrison's aid and shot and killed Temple.

EBRSO's investigation concluded that shots were fired from two guns during the incident.

Harrison fired three shots, hitting Temple once in the stomach.

Stephens ordered Temple to get off the officer. When he didn't, Stevens fired four shots from his own gun into Temple's chest and then one into his head.

Stephens did have a concealed handgun permit. Investigators also said Temple had an arrest record with violent offenses.

BRPD officials placed Harrison on paid administrative leave following the incident.

Harrison was also involved in another shooting incident in 1995. While working for the East Baton Rouge Sheriff's Office, Harrison shot an innocent bystander while chasing a robbery suspect. He was suspended, but did not lose his job.

Col. Greg Phares of EBRSO said his office will not file any charges against Harrison or Stephens, though he will hand the evidence over to District Attorney Doug Moreau. Moreau will have the option of filing charges or taking the case to the grand jury.

========================================================
My comments -

This is the first story that tells the WHOLE truth about the fight. The BG, who was a boxer according to stories published yesterday, had the officer ON THE GROUND, pounding his face in. The officer had to shoot up into the BG while the BG was on top of him. This is why he only hit him once out of three shots (with a 40 cal).

The hero in this event, shoots the BG 4 times in the torso with a 45 cal, most likely hollow points. The BG still refuses to stop beating the cop.

I'd bet anything that the BG was on Meth or something else.

Mr. Stephens truly deserves a medal. I just hope that the laws of LA preclude civil action by the BG's relatives.

A. Patriot
February 21, 2006, 11:58 AM
http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/2343136.html


Police: Witness shot man five times

By KIMBERLY VETTER

Advocate staff writer
Published: Feb 21, 2006

Advocate staff photo by Richard Alan Hannon

No arrests will be made in the death of 24-year-old George Temple II, a local businessman shot and killed by a witness during a scuffle with a Baton Rouge police officer on Friday.

“We are not arresting anyone,” Greg Phares, chief criminal deputy with the East Baton Rouge Sheriff’s Office, said Monday. “However, this is not the end of the process. Our investigation will be taken to the district attorney.”

Phares said Perry Stephens fired a shot to Temple’s head after witnessing a fight between Temple and Officer Brian Harrison.

Phares declined to release Stephens’ age and address.

He said Stephens shot Temple with a .45-caliber handgun five times, four times in the chest and once in the head. The incident occurred about 2:15 p.m. Friday in the parking lot of the AutoZone at 9007 Greenwell Springs Road at Joor Road.

Phares would not talk about bullet entry points, but said, “It is my understanding that Mr. Stephens attempted to place his shots in a way to minimize harm to the police officer since the two were so close.”

Stephens had a concealed handgun license, Phares said.

Phares said that investigators found a handgun in Temple’s car, but that it did not play a part in the altercation. Temple was the owner of Expert Sound, 7221 Airline Highway.

Harrison, 32, shot Temple once in the stomach during the struggle, Phares said

Attempts to reach Harrison Monday were unsuccessful. The Advocate left one message at his home.

While working for the East Baton Rouge Sheriff’s Office, Harrison accidentally shot a customer in 1995 when two men robbed a convenience store in Baker, The Advocate has reported.

In that robbery, the customer was armed with a .25-caliber semiautomatic pistol. After the bandits left the store, the customer followed and fired at least one shot.

Harrison, who was in uniform but unarmed, obtained a .357-caliber pistol from the store owner and fired a single shot at a figure running west in the direction that the robbers also ran, accidentally shooting the customer in the lower back.

No charges were filed against Harrison, East Baton Rouge Parish Clerk of Court records show.

Stephens also could not be reached for comment. The Advocate left two messages at his home and made a visit to his house on Monday but did not reach him.

At a news conference Monday, Phares said Stephens walked out of the AutoZone and got his weapon after hearing Harrison, who was fighting with Temple on the ground, yell for help.

As Stephens, who was wearing a neck brace and using a cane, walked toward the men, he heard shots and Harrison again call for help.

At that point, Stephens asked Temple to get off Harrison, Phares said. When Temple did not comply, he shot Temple four times in the chest.

Stephens ordered Temple again to get off Harrison. When he did not comply, he shot Temple in the head, killing him, Phares said.

How the fight between Harrison and Temple began is still unclear to investigators. What they do know is that Harrison was off-duty and working as a motorcycle escort for a funeral procession going west on Greenwell Springs Road when a black S550 Mercedes driven by Temple cut into the procession, Phares said.

Harrison pulled Temple into the AutoZone parking lot and wrote him a ticket for a traffic violation. That’s when an argument began. What the two argued about is still unknown because Harrison has yet to be interviewed, Phares said.

Phares said investigators have talked with Harrison’s attorney and feel confident an interview with the officer will happen soon.
Words turned into a fight after Harrison attempted to remove Temple from his car, Phares said.

The fight left Harrison with face contusions. He is on administrative leave during the investigation, Police Chief Jeff LeDuff said at the news conference.

“This is a tragic scene all the way around,” said LeDuff, who added it is a police officer’s duty to keep unwanted cars out of a funeral procession. “I’ve written that ticket a hundred times.”

Wayne Laird, manager of Rabenhorst Funeral Home East, said his funeral home was involved in the procession that day.

“People are bad about cutting in a funeral procession and cutting on their lights and following the process and then dropping off wherever they want,” he said. “We don’t know if that actually happened, but that sort of thing is typical. It is very dangerous.”

According to court records, Temple was on probation for simple battery and simple damage to property at the time of his death.

A case against him also was pending involving counts of simple battery, simple trespassing and simple criminal damage to property, according to records at the Clerk of Court’s Office.

===========================================================
My comments:

Mr. Stephans gave the BG two opportunities to stop assaulting the officer. Even after being shot once with a 40 cal, then 4 times with a 45 cal, he deceided to continue beating the officer over a $90 traffic ticket.

Meth or PCP had to be involved.

Perry Stephans saved this officer's life. He is a hero.

cracked butt
February 21, 2006, 04:01 PM
dang my redneck/kkk leanings are slipping
Quote:
Originally Posted by cracked butt
I think Art Eatman is on to something here. Blinging car. Owner of an audio shop that is in his early 20s. I wouldn't have a hard time drawing a conclusion about what happened.

something is wrong with me, my first thought at this was he had a high dollar sterio in that benz turned way up and not paying attention to his driving. guess i've been away from the drugie seen to long!

Try reading my last post before trying politically correct troll baiting :rolleyes:

Jeez, seems like some people will have a chip on their shoulder no matter where you go.

gunsmith
February 21, 2006, 04:22 PM
Around where I am from your a sicko redneck KKK member looking to shoot minorities if you carry a gun in your car. (I am from Chicagos suburbs.)



more then half of the cars in Reno probably have guns in them irregardless of race , creed , or color.

So you are going to make assumptions that the kid was a drugdealer because he owned an audio business and drove a Benz?



If the shoe fits, then I will assume that this is indeed cinderfella:neener:

Ermac
February 22, 2006, 09:51 AM
http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/2343136.html


Police: Witness shot man five times

By KIMBERLY VETTER
Advocate staff writer
Published: Feb 21, 2006

No arrests will be made in the death of 24-year-old George Temple II, a local businessman shot and killed by a witness during a scuffle with a Baton Rouge police officer on Friday.

“We are not arresting anyone,” Greg Phares, chief criminal deputy with the East Baton Rouge Sheriff’s Office, said Monday. “However, this is not the end of the process. Our investigation will be taken to the district attorney.”

Phares said Perry Stephens fired a shot to Temple’s head after witnessing a fight between Temple and Officer Brian Harrison.

Phares declined to release Stephens’ age and address.

He said Stephens shot Temple with a .45-caliber handgun five times, four times in the chest and once in the head. The incident occurred about 2:15 p.m. Friday in the parking lot of the AutoZone at 9007 Greenwell Springs Road at Joor Road.

Phares would not talk about bullet entry points, but said, “It is my understanding that Mr. Stephens attempted to place his shots in a way to minimize harm to the police officer since the two were so close.”

Stephens had a concealed handgun license, Phares said.

Phares said that investigators found a handgun in Temple’s car, but that it did not play a part in the altercation. Temple was the owner of Expert Sound, 7221 Airline Highway.

Harrison, 32, shot Temple once in the stomach during the struggle, Phares said

Attempts to reach Harrison Monday were unsuccessful. The Advocate left one message at his home.

While working for the East Baton Rouge Sheriff’s Office, Harrison accidentally shot a customer in 1995 when two men robbed a convenience store in Baker, The Advocate has reported.

In that robbery, the customer was armed with a .25-caliber semiautomatic pistol. After the bandits left the store, the customer followed and fired at least one shot.

Harrison, who was in uniform but unarmed, obtained a .357-caliber pistol from the store owner and fired a single shot at a figure running west in the direction that the robbers also ran, accidentally shooting the customer in the lower back.

No charges were filed against Harrison, East Baton Rouge Parish Clerk of Court records show.

Stephens also could not be reached for comment. The Advocate left two messages at his home and made a visit to his house on Monday but did not reach him.

At a news conference Monday, Phares said Stephens walked out of the AutoZone and got his weapon after hearing Harrison, who was fighting with Temple on the ground, yell for help.

As Stephens, who was wearing a neck brace and using a cane, walked toward the men, he heard shots and Harrison again call for help.

At that point, Stephens asked Temple to get off Harrison, Phares said. When Temple did not comply, he shot Temple four times in the chest.

Stephens ordered Temple again to get off Harrison. When he did not comply, he shot Temple in the head, killing him, Phares said.

How the fight between Harrison and Temple began is still unclear to investigators. What they do know is that Harrison was off-duty and working as a motorcycle escort for a funeral procession going west on Greenwell Springs Road when a black S550 Mercedes driven by Temple cut into the procession, Phares said.

Harrison pulled Temple into the AutoZone parking lot and wrote him a ticket for a traffic violation. That’s when an argument began. What the two argued about is still unknown because Harrison has yet to be interviewed, Phares said.

Phares said investigators have talked with Harrison’s attorney and feel confident an interview with the officer will happen soon.
Words turned into a fight after Harrison attempted to remove Temple from his car, Phares said.

The fight left Harrison with face contusions. He is on administrative leave during the investigation, Police Chief Jeff LeDuff said at the news conference.

“This is a tragic scene all the way around,” said LeDuff, who added it is a police officer’s duty to keep unwanted cars out of a funeral procession. “I’ve written that ticket a hundred times.”

Wayne Laird, manager of Rabenhorst Funeral Home East, said his funeral home was involved in the procession that day.

“People are bad about cutting in a funeral procession and cutting on their lights and following the process and then dropping off wherever they want,” he said. “We don’t know if that actually happened, but that sort of thing is typical. It is very dangerous.”

According to court records, Temple was on probation for simple battery and simple damage to property at the time of his death.

A case against him also was pending involving counts of simple battery, simple trespassing and simple criminal damage to property, according to records at the Clerk of Court’s Office.

He took 4 shots of .45 to the chest and then 1 in the head to drop him...dam :what:
Shot placement is DEFINETLY the Key.

antsi
February 22, 2006, 09:57 AM
From what's presented here, it sounds like a justifiable shoot. It also sounds like the Temple guy was a major hot head. I hope the Stephens guy does not have to deal with a lot of civil liability harrassment from Temple's relatives.

TexasRifleman
February 22, 2006, 09:59 AM
“We are not arresting anyone,” Greg Phares, chief criminal deputy with the East Baton Rouge Sheriff’s Office, said Monday. “However, this is not the end of the process. Our investigation will be taken to the district attorney.”

I understand they have to do due diligence, but if anything other than a medal is given to the guy that stepped in to help no one will ever assist an officer calling for help again. Tread lightly Mr District Attorney......

Optical Serenity
February 22, 2006, 10:03 AM
Excellent shoot, the temple guy sounds like a total buffoon.

Henry Bowman
February 22, 2006, 10:10 AM
Brady Bunch headline: Another Child* Victim of Gun Violence


:rolleyes:
*To grabbers, anyone under 25 is a child

LiquidTension
February 22, 2006, 10:18 AM
Wow, dude took one shot in the stomach from the officer, 4 more in the chest from the good samaritan, and it still took a head shot to finish it. Wonder if he was on something?

Yeah, it would be very bad for any LEOs requesting help in the future if the good samaritan gets anything but praise for this incident.

Mizzle187
February 22, 2006, 10:52 AM
Did I read tis right, the guy who was doign the shooting had a neckbrace on and used a cane? Brings a new meaning to respect your elders! Sound like this guy was a decent shot.

TheEgg
February 22, 2006, 11:07 AM
Harrison, who was in uniform but unarmed, obtained a .357-caliber pistol from the store owner and fired a single shot at a figure running west in the direction that the robbers also ran, accidentally shooting the customer in the lower back.:scrutiny:

While it sounds on the face of it like a good shoot on the part of the samaritan, I have to wonder about the actions of the officer, especially when coupled with this earlier incident. If I were the chief, I would REALLY look at this guy and wonder if he should be a cop.

Everything might be fine, but exactly how did a traffic ticket escalate to this? Temple may be entirely to blame, but if I were Harrison's superior, I would want to know in detail what happened.

bcochran
February 22, 2006, 11:10 AM
The altercation, the injuries and the situation are regrettable. Those are not the focus of my comments.

All too often, we read silly, contentious, and absurd and insulting postings about 9mm vs. .45 acp, stopping power, bullet design and similar topics.

Please review what happened. 4 shots to the stomach (read center mass) and one shot to the head (head shot). This was accomplished with a .45acp round.

My conclusion is that you cannot be opinionated about what works and doesn't work.

If, by projection, I assume that the witness was shooting at target areas presented to him, I would conclude that he was skillful and not hung up wth isosceles vs. Weaver, push-pull vs. bullseye and other such nonesense.

You also conclude another thing about dealing with confrontations. I was once the object of a traffic stop that took about 1 hour. No citation was issued and I didn't use any pull or make threats. There were multiple officers involved. At the end, I was complimented on my patience. After further discussion, I was told that the officers were routinely cursed at, threatened in their jobs and otherwise harrassed by the stopped motorists. Can we learn that whether you make a bonehead mistake in your driving or you are dealing with a bonehead officer, just take it easy and don't escalate? It really doesn't matter whether your wife won't put out, the boss yelled at you, the kid failed mathematics at school, or that you are late for an appointment. Vent yourself on the cop who stops you, or anyone for that matter, and someone might not go home that night.:what:

sheep
February 22, 2006, 11:25 AM
This is a good sign. I have read so many postings about someone who was clearly justified but still got charged with some sort of violation (and this persons family might still stir things up). In my opinion if the shoot was clean, much of what lead up to the point is not important. I think that having the officer there probably helped the situation as to clearing up some of the questions that come right after - but our society needs to get to the point where a good citizen is just as "trustworthy" as a LEO.. and hopefuly just as effective at dealing with situations as they are.

Oh, and this is my first post.

Hawkman
February 22, 2006, 11:33 AM
NAACP is calling for an investigation. Good Samaritan may yet regret helping out...:cuss:

pete f
February 22, 2006, 01:23 PM
family is pulling the race card. Asked the NAACP to look in to it as their representative.

Lupinus
February 22, 2006, 02:31 PM
naacp.....why does this not surprise me.

your kid was a criminal who attacked a cop lady, get with reality.

Rockstar
February 22, 2006, 03:12 PM
The facts of this case, as published, MUST be incorrect, as the Brain Trust of the Western World, the NAACP, is now asking for an investigation, since racial bias MUST have been involved in the shooting of this outstanding young entrepreneur.

CO Slacker
February 22, 2006, 03:13 PM
Good Article, thanks for posting it. I hope this guy doesn't have to go through a lot of crap. Sounds like he did the right thing coming to the aid of an officer in trouble.

NineseveN
February 22, 2006, 03:35 PM
Hmmm, this is an odd story. I gotta find some more info. So far, hard to blame the guy for shooting the perp on top of the cop.

Preacherman
February 22, 2006, 03:35 PM
Multiple threads merged.

PCGS65
February 22, 2006, 04:32 PM
Other friends said Temple, a 1999 graduate of Glen Oaks High School, was a quiet man.

According to court records, Temple was on probation for simple battery and simple damage to property at the time of his death.

A case against him also was pending involving counts of simple battery, simple trespassing and simple criminal damage to property, according to records at the Clerk of Court’s office.
Sounds like to me Temple can be buried in a simple cemetery.
One other thing, if it wasn't a LEO in disstress you bet your life there would be charges. Based on was or wasn't his life in danger?

LawDog
February 22, 2006, 06:37 PM
One other thing, if it wasn't a LEO in disstress you bet your life there would be charges.

In Louisiana? :scrutiny:

LawDog

Autolycus
February 22, 2006, 09:22 PM
You wouldn't like Texans very much then.....


Most of my family is in El Paso or San Antonio. Thats the generalization that is made about people like us who enjoy guns.

Autolycus
February 22, 2006, 09:23 PM
Amazing, I thought this was supposed to be "The High Road"


EDIT: I may be mistaken about your post cracked butt. However, it comes across as a racially biased. If your post was sarcastic and not racist then you have my apologies.


This is the way I felt.

Autolycus
February 22, 2006, 09:33 PM
Out on a witch hunt for the xenophobes...?

The article referred to the dead man as a "local business man" and then by his name, "George Temple II." The article did not refer to George Temple II as a "local black man," or any other minority.

Your own typecasts have made you presuppose the story is about a minority - and therefore accuse another’s comments of containing bigotry - again due to your own stereotypes.

Neat.


The other article I posted showed a picture of Temple.

Autolycus
February 22, 2006, 09:34 PM
Here is a strange thread on another forum about the .45 cal vs. 9mm debate that one poster mentioned.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=137285&highlight=Friend

antsi
February 22, 2006, 10:23 PM
So you are going to make assumptions that the kid was a drugdealer because he owned an audio business and drove a Benz?

I would wait and see the entire story before passing judgment on the character of the guy.

I didn't read the comment that way. I read it as:
1) guy gets pulled over for a traffic ticket and goes Rambo on the cop
2) not rational behavior at all - dude was probably on drugs
3) drug user + expensive car + business owner = business is a front for drug dealing

Sure, it's speculative. Going rodeo on the cop was the behavior that raises an index of suspicion for drugs being involved. The record is another issue, and it appears that he kept attacking the cop after being shot multiple times... it's suspicious.

And though it may be premature to convict the guy of being a drug dealer, I feel pretty secure in passing judgement on his character based on his priors and the behavior we know about. I don't think he was a nice man. I would not be happy about my daughter dating him.

XavierBreath
March 10, 2006, 09:33 PM
It seems Temple was trying to bribe Officer Harrison (http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/2437541.html), and thus had committed a felony.

When the fight began, Officer Harrison was arresting a felon for bribery.

An eyewitness account. (http://www.wafb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4540153)

A. Patriot
March 13, 2006, 10:59 AM
Here is an article from "The Advocate" about the autopsy results:

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/2446532.html


Summary:

No drugs or alcohol, the officer's 40 cal would not have been fatal. All of the 45 cal body shots would have been fatal.

NineseveN
March 13, 2006, 12:16 PM
I wonder what ammo was used? Not all rounds are equal.

A. Patriot
June 6, 2006, 12:45 PM
http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/2831986.html


No one charged in motorist’s death

Civilian shot Temple as he fought BR officer

By ADRIAN ANGELETTE
Advocate staff writer
Published: May 19, 2006

A grand jury Thursday decided against charging anyone in the death of motorist George Temple II, shot and killed by a civilian Feb. 17 while fighting with a police officer. (continues on web page)

Manedwolf
June 6, 2006, 01:32 PM
But what's with that article? It calls the perp a "shooting victim", and has a lovey portrait picture of him with his sisters.

And WHY this line?! "Temple was black. Harrison and Stephens are white."

:barf:

Henry Bowman
June 6, 2006, 02:30 PM
God protect me from ever earning the label "motorist." :uhoh:

Erebus
June 6, 2006, 03:30 PM
Investigators are unsure if the shots that killed the victim
What victim? There were no victims killed in this incident!!

Temple’s friend, Willie Parker, said Temple liked to box

Cop needs to spend more time at range
If he was trying to arrest him at the time the fight broke out he didn't have much chance for a good shot. And close range fighting with a boxer doesn't bode well for the officer.

Stephens had a concealed handgun license, Phares said.
Phares said that investigators found a handgun in Temple’s car,

Interesting they found it important to find out if the GS had a permit but not the perp.

According to court records, Temple was on probation for simple battery and simple damage to property at the time of his death. A case against him also was pending involving counts of simple battery, simple trespassing and simple criminal damage to property, according to records at the Clerk of Court’s office.
Me thinks I see a pattern of offensive abusive behavior.

And WHY this line?! "Temple was black. Harrison and Stephens are white."
Here's why
family is pulling the race card. Asked the NAACP to look in to it as their representative.
It's called Race Baiting. The press loves it. It gets everyone reading their tripe.

tuckerdog1
June 6, 2006, 06:05 PM
I get weary of reading about these shootings, where the perp is fighting with police, gets shot, and his friends, family & whatever race based orginization rallies around his ethnic group, start going on about how it's the fault of the police.

Here's an idea. Don't fight with police, and they won't shoot you.

Tuckerdog1

A. Patriot
June 6, 2006, 06:42 PM
Quote:
Cop needs to spend more time at range. If he was trying to arrest him at the time the fight broke out he didn't have much chance for a good shot. And close range fighting with a boxer doesn't bode well for the officer.

Actually, according to prior stories in The Advocate, the perp had the officer down on the ground pounding his face in when the officer fired his weapon and hit the perp once.

txgho1911
June 7, 2006, 11:39 PM
I have read these articles and now it looks like some may be offlined by the paper.

Kimberly Vetter
That article or at least the link to her article doesn't work for me. Maybe no connection. I think as this was the first story posted it is incomplete as compared to total substance.
Next article that I see by her is filled with info like she copied everything she could find to date without comentary.
This writer I must say for content and bias was neutral and that neutrality is something many people are starving for in information.

BRETT TROXLER
His article I think is short and not very informative. This article did not seem to contain any emotion or color refrence to indicate bias.

ADRIAN ANGELETTE
Wrote about the skin color of both shooters and the entire grand jury. This grand jury was half white and half black. Story is part rundown of grand jury activities and number of witnesses heard. LEO and lawyer statements where quoted though how accurate only the speakers know. Gives a run down of attampting to contact NAACP and every black clergy member in the area.
This is the bias and race bait in BR.

XavierBreath
January 13, 2009, 07:58 AM
I hate to be the person who ressurects a thread from the dead, but Gordon Hutchinson has interviewed Perry Stephens. A lot of the unanswered lingering questions are now answered.

Go here to read the interview (http://www.theshootist.net/2009/01/one-man-got-involved-perry_12.html).

deaconkharma
January 13, 2009, 10:01 AM
Six months earlier he had forced his way into the home of the mother of his son. An accomplice held a gun on her roommate while Temple assaulted his ex-girlfriend in an argument over the child. He was later arrested and charged with simple battery and other misdemeanor charges for the assault. He had so terrified the two women, they had made several complaints to the city police about the beating and threats by Temple, and both had purchased handguns to protect themselves from him.

A lawsuit was filed by the mother of George Temple’s son, accusing Brian Harrison of excessive force in his attempt to effect an illegal arrest, and Stephens of “vigilante” action in coming to the aid of Harrison.

Among the claims listed as a reason for the lawsuit was a “loss of consortium” with Temple.

What??? first she is his victim, and feels the need to buy a gun for protection against him but now she wants to sue because he is gone? anyone else confused/befuddled by this?

alsaqr
January 13, 2009, 10:28 AM
What??? first she is his victim, and feels the need to buy a gun for protection against him but now she wants to sue because he is gone? anyone else confused/befuddled by this?


She is a opportunist who thinks that she can get some money.

expvideo
January 13, 2009, 10:29 AM
“He was a successful man trying to make it in life,” Parker, 22, said. “He always worked hard for what he had; a lot of people love him; it’s sad.”
Correction: he was an a-hole trying to beat up a cop.

mbt2001
January 13, 2009, 12:34 PM
1.) He protected the officer from "serious bodily injury or death".

2.) The LEO's call for help, once taken up deputized the civilian, the civilian was operating under the color of law in preventing a violent crime from occurring.

Maelstrom
January 13, 2009, 12:34 PM
What??? first she is his victim, and feels the need to buy a gun for protection against him but now she wants to sue because he is gone? anyone else confused/befuddled by this?

Nope, not confused or befuddled. I'm not even flabbergasted.

Treo
January 13, 2009, 01:32 PM
She is a opportunist who thinks that she can get some money

Yeah, that one's not even hard to guess at. Some ambulance chasing lawyer told her she could get rich (and give him a sizable cut) and she went for it

Treo
January 13, 2009, 01:57 PM
With Harrison continuing to scream for help, and Temple continuing to beat him, Stephens placed his walking cane under his left arm, and took aim with both hands to get a better angle of shot and avoid hitting Harrison. The first shot hit Temple in the left breast, under the nipple. Stephens did not shoot at Temple from the rear as has been frequently stated, but rather from a side position. The bullet entered Temple’s chest, and came out through his clavicle (shoulder blade.) His next three shots struck Temple in the left shoulder and upper back area.

After the four shots, with Temple showing no effect from the four bullets, Stephens again ordered Temple off Harrison. Temple ignored the orders and continued to beat Harrison.

Stephens then took one step forward, reaching within approximately three feet of the men, Temple still viciously beating Harrison. Temple was still on top of Harrison, his left arm on Harrison’s neck, and his right hand and arm under Harrison. As Temple slammed Harrison’s head forward to the pavement and lunged forward with his hand and arm under Harrison, Stephens fired his final shot into Temple’s head behind his ear. The bullet exited the rear of Temple’s head. Stephens said while he did not actually see the gun, other witnesses told him Temple had finally wrested control of the duty Glock from Harrison and was pulling it from under Harrison’s body when Stephens shot him in the side of the head.

At that shot, Temple ceased beating Harrison, and turned, reaching towards Stephens with a look on his face Stephens described as “rage.”

Temple then fell over, off Harrison, and made two attempts to sit back up, looking at Stephens before he collapsed and expired.

And so ends the myth of the .45 as a one shot man stopper

Maelstrom
January 13, 2009, 02:11 PM
Anybody know the results of the toxicology report?

withdrawn34
January 13, 2009, 02:15 PM
Not to make assumptions, but I can imagine what kind of guy this guy was. Young, driving a S550, and a serious temper problem. Sounds like a lot of S550 drivers.

I do not doubt the witness did the right thing, and that the MB driver most likely thought the funeral procession was too important for someone of his righteous and superior standing, and so he probably went around or didn't stop for it or something.

There are essentially only two types of people who drive S550s for the most part. Older people, and then younger men who can be described with a certain four letter word describing a certain part of the male anatomy.

Well okay, I'm sure many will disagree with my last sentence there... I guess I've just worked valet far too long for my own good.

KBintheSLC
January 13, 2009, 02:15 PM
The other guy had a few guns in his car. Can we pass judgment on him? Around where I am from your a sicko redneck KKK member looking to shoot minorities if you carry a gun in your car. (I am from Chicagos suburbs.)

Thats the funniest thing I have seen on here in a while... well, not really.

Replace the word "funniest" with the word "dumbest". I guess I wouldn't expect much from Chicago.

Treo
January 13, 2009, 04:56 PM
Anybody know the results of the toxicology report?

ROID rage?

Oicu812
January 13, 2009, 09:01 PM
Anybody know the results of the toxicology report?

Lead poisoning?

O

stevemis
January 13, 2009, 10:43 PM
I am usually the last to cheer when cops get away with shooting people, but this one has a justifiable smell to it. I never got a broken jaw and a week in the hospital from a shouting match or even a fistfight. That is some serious hostility manifesting itself there.


Yes. A fist-fight with a boxer:


Temple’s friend, Willie Parker, said Temple liked to box, had a year-old child and was attending Southern University.



“He was a successful man trying to make it in life,” Parker, 22, said.


No, you got it all wrong. The Brady Campaign says you're supposed to say he's had a troubled past but has recently turned his life around. Get with it, Parker, 22.

indoorsoccerfrea
January 13, 2009, 11:05 PM
Anybody know the results of the toxicology report?

Lead poisoning?

O

that and among other things...nobody who isn't either insane or on drugs takes 4-5 shots to the upper body and doesn't flinch...

cassandrasdaddy
January 13, 2009, 11:14 PM
nobody who isn't either insane or on drugs takes 4-5 shots to the upper body and doesn't flinch...

at that point i think i woulda started considering driving a stake through his heart

indoorsoccerfrea
January 13, 2009, 11:16 PM
or casting your own silver bullets...

AllAmerican
January 13, 2009, 11:51 PM
What I found interesting in the whole of this thread was that a few folks were stereotyping the perp and then some folks here got pissed and started the race thing.

Dudes, I AM taking THR on this. If the shoe fits....

Its really sad that its come to that. The point where we know whats up because the stereotype has actually become THE TYPE of person that were dealing with. The fact that some got their panties in a wad about the stereotyping shows me that they recognize the problem but get mad when someone points it out. Sad.

You have only yourself (collectively) to blame.

I call em like I see em.

Go ahead stereotype me. Im game.

HK G3
January 14, 2009, 01:01 AM
The one thing that I find interesting is the witness' story that I believe Art posted on the 3rd page.

The witness indicates that Stephens did not issue a verbal warning prior to opening fire.

The Shootist's page indicates that not only did he (Stephens) issue several verbal warnings, but he also fired multiple warning shots.

I think that either way, it's a justifiable homicide, but it is very interesting to see two radically different sides to the story.

tuckerdog1
January 15, 2009, 08:30 AM
2.) The LEO's call for help, once taken up deputized the civilian, the civilian was operating under the color of law in preventing a violent crime from occurring.

That's interesting. Is that an off the cuff thought, or is it based on a legal precedent? If it holds water from a legal standpoint, could it offer some avenue for financial assistance against the lawsuit?

Tuckerdog1

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