[grimjaw]

I've been wondering how well the factory ammunition I use compares to the manufacter's published statistics. Invariably the tested barrel length varies from what I'm using, so I have to guess at velocity fall off/gain. I've started to compile a list that I'll continually update and post. Anyone wanting me to test something and report results, just send money or ammunition. ;)

Page is linked here. (http://grimjaw.net/ballistics.htm)

Not much of this will come as a surprise to firearms veterans, but it was enlightening for me. I was surprised that the Fiocchi .38 I've been using for practice produced higher velocity than the Winchester +P for the same bullet weight. The Winchester load also gives off a cloud of dust (lead?) whenever it goes off, very unpleasant. I need to pick up some Remington in the FBI load and see what it does.

I didn't bother to chrony the CCI .357 out of the GP100. It was pretty anemic even from a rifle barrel. Ditto for the same line in .38. It would make a good candidate for older revolvers that you want to take it easy with, though.

jmm

[R.W.Dale]

Everybody who buys a chrony has ther own little "AH HA" moment, Mine was when I found that most factory 30-30 loads are almost 200 fps slower than factory claims.

[wanderinwalker]

I've had a few of those "Ah-ha!" moments with the chrony. The worst was when I fired a batch of factory Remington 140gr .260 Remington ammo. Catalogue lists 2750 from a 24" barrel. Well, my Mountain Rifle has a 22" barrel, but I was seeing only 2600 on the chrony! I just about fell out of my seat! To add insult to injury, my 140gr reloads with Sierra GameKings was even slower! Wow!

[gazpacho]

Federal 38sp 110gr PD average was right on when I chronoed it. Surprised me. But it was inconsistant. I think 1 Standard Deviation was something like 40 fps. When I copied with a reload, I got it down to 8fps

[armoredman]

I Started to do that last range trip....right before i shot a sky screen off....But i did find out that Remington 115gr JHP 110 bulk ammo runs between 1150 and 1200 FPS, which I found quite adequate for expansion purposes.
New Chrony rod is here, time to do it again Friday, with reloads and Gold Dots.

[kannonfyre]

Grimjaw:

Any chance that you'll crony a made-in-italy purple box fiocchi 158gr "black coated" LRN?

[grimjaw]

kannonfyre, I would if I had some available. No local dealers carry Fiocchi; everything I get is mail order. If you want to ship me a box, I'd rate that for you with video.

My chrony interests right now are testing factory loads for .38 Special and 9x19. After that I'll be testing .357 & .44 Magnum. Most of it will be what's locally available, which unfortunately means no Fiocchi. :(

jmm

[grimjaw]

Added the following:
(http://grimjaw.net/ballistics.htm)
.38 Special (from 3 1/16" bbl)
Remington 129gr +P Golden Saber JHP
Federal Classic 125gr +P JHP

.22WMR (from 6.5" bbl)
Federal 50gr JHP
CCI 40gr Maxi Mag TMJ
CCI 30gr Maxi Mag +V JHP
Remington 33gr Premier VMAX
Winchester 40gr JHP

.30-30 Winchester (from 16" and 24" bbl)
Federal 125gr JHP
Winchester 150gr JSP PowerPoint

7.62x39 Soviet (from 16" bbl)
Brown Bear 123gr JSP

jmm

[thatguy]

Note the absolutely PATHETIC performance of the .38 Special +P loads. I actually LAUGH OUT LOUD when I read posts where people with Model 10 S&Ws worry about shooting +P factory ammo in their guns. Maybe at one time this ammo was hot, but not anytime recently. It's a joke. Three loads running 895, 906 and 970 FPS? The old, original load was a 158 grain bullet at 870 FPS. How does a 125 at 895-970 sound like high performance? If I merely pulled the 158 bullet and replaced it with a 125 and made no change in the powder charge I would expect a greater velocity increase than what we see here.

Of course, factory 158s now run 730-750 FPS so I guess it's all relative.

If Federal, Winchester and Remington down-load .38 Special ammo much further we may as well just carry loose bullets in our pockets and throw them at bad guys. I can't recommend a .38 for self-defense if limited to factory ammo. I would rather have a .380 ACP as it doesn't give up much (if anything) to factory .38 loads and generally carries more ammo than a revolver.

I often pack a snub .38 but I load my own using a 125 JHP at 1200 FPS. This load comes from an older reloading manual that hasn't been lawyerized (esmasculated) and this isn't even the top load.

I was surprised that the .357 Magnum loads did as well as they did. I would have predicted 1250 FPS from a 4" gun and you got 1360.

[SeanSw]

Some of those .38 loads are pathetic. I definately need to pick up some dedicated .38 special self defense ammo..... just in case.

Thank you for the information, I like the straightforward layout.

[kirkcdl]

There are 2 loads that feel pretty hot in my Model 94 carbine,both are available from Outdoor Marksman.Miwall 357 magnum reload 125gr FMJ,and Miwall 160gr +P+...Don't have a chrony,so I'm going just by feel...The 160gr +P+ feels hot enough that I am not even going to put it in my wheelguns...

[grimjaw]

Added the following (http://grimjaw.net/ballistics.htm):

9x19 (from several bbl's)
Remington 124gr +P Golden Saber JHP
Federal Premium Hydrashok 124gr JHP

.44 Magnum (from 10.5")
Winchester SuperX 240gr JHP

I'll try reorganize the chart soon to get a better grouping of calibers.

The Remington Golden Saber line has outperformed all others that I've tested, and it's been among the most consistent. 9x19 out of the carbine averaged ~1400 fps, and that's as good or better than .357 Magnum numbers with virtually the same bullet weight. I don't know how well it expands (perhaps someone can enlighten us?), but it grouped a very small hole with 10 shots at 25 yards. That's what I'd load in the PC9 for serious work, even if it is a bit pricey.

The .44 Magnum load was averaging 1540+ fps and 1275+ ft/lbs of energy, and I promise you my wrist noticed. The .44 Specials I loaded afterwards felt like shooting a .22 Magnum. :rolleyes:

jmm

[grimjaw]

Added the following (http://grimjaw.net/ballistics.htm):

.38 Special (3" bbl)
Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel +P 135gr JHP

9x19 (~16" bbl)
Winchester Ranger +P+ 127gr JHP (meh, I was hoping for more but it did OK)
Remington +P+ 115gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot +P+ 115gr JHP (averaged 1630+ fps, holy crap :eek: )
Fiocchi 115gr FMJ

I would have clocked the 9x19 out of a shorter barrel, but I came upon it by chance: traded a guy at the gun shop some Golden Saber for what he was carrying, on the condition that I clock it out of the carbine.

jmm

[1911Tuner]

Be aware that all chronographs aren't created equal, either. Shoot the same lot of ammo over three identical chronographs, and you'll get three different average velocities. Shoot the same lot of ammo over the same chronograph
on three different days...a week apart...and you'll likely get the same result.
Let the batteries get a little weak and watch your results go fugasi.

If you want the most accurate, most consistent results...color your bullets with a black sharpie marker and either use the filters or shoot on an overcast day around noon +/- an hour...and try to shoot when the temperature is hovering around 75 degrees.

Set up a target and carefully align it with the chronograph, so that you'll shoot straight across the screens consistently...and shoot from a solid rest. If one shot goes straight and the other one degree on the diagonal, the variation can be as much as 30 fps if the two shots theoretically would have produced the exact same velocity.
Set the chronograph up with a carpenter's level to eliminate another possible diagonal axis.

[Steve C]

Three loads running 895, 906 and 970 FPS? The old, original load was a 158 grain bullet at 870 FPS. How does a 125 at 895-970 sound like high performance? If I merely pulled the 158 bullet and replaced it with a 125 and made no change in the powder charge I would expect a greater velocity increase than what we see here.

Of course, factory 158s now run 730-750 FPS so I guess it's all relative.

One needs to look at the "old" data carefully. Most of the velocity measurements where taken from a 6" barrel or longer unvented test barrel vrs the current 4" vented test barrel used by manufacturers to simulate actual revolver velocities. See the chart I scanned in below that came from a 1972 Guns Annual.

I've chrono'd a 158gr LSWC .38 spl +P load (Winchesters data all Winchester components) of 4.7grs of W231 out of a variety of guns. It averaged 879 fps from a 4" S&W M66, 911 fps from a 4-5/8" Ruger Black Hawk, only 908 fps from a 8-3/8" Model 27, and 1,101 fps from a 16" Timberwolf carbine. Winchester says it should be at 860 fps from a 4" barrel, so they're pretty close to my measured velocities. The individual gun has as much to do with the velocity you'll record. Take 3 different pistols with the same barrel length and run the same loads over a chrono and you can get quite a difference in velocities. Some guns just shoot slow. My 8-3/8" M27 shoots slower than my 6" Colt Trooper despite the extra barrel length.
http://www.members.aol.com/scoll63101/public/olddata

[Rabid Rabbit]

I've been using a chrono for a year. Last week I had an WTH moment when the 185gr WWB had a standard devation of 14fps., the Winchester Silvertip had a SD of 27fps. Not exactly what I was expecting.