Gunman opens fire in New Orleans school with Ak-47


April 14, 2003, 04:19 PM,2933,84135,00.html


NEW ORLEANS — A gunman with an AK-47 automatic rifle shot and killed a student and wounded three others Monday at a New Orleans high school, police said. Four suspects were arrested after a sweep of the surrounding neighborhood.

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April 14, 2003, 04:27 PM
I didn't put this as tactfully as I should have. I don't think that the anti gun special interest groups actually set up this or many other gang related or just a nutcase shooting people. I was just comparing this to Nero burning Rome to blame it on the Christians and Hitler burning the Reichstag to blame the Jews and persecute them further. I was saying that having a shooting with an "assault weapon" a week before they vote on the AWB sunset might not be a coincidence. Never met a coincidence I liked.:neener:

I don't want so suggest that every shooting is the work of anti gunners trying to frame us. I was just making a comparison to the shooting in California before the Brady bill became law.


April 14, 2003, 04:28 PM
explained in above post:confused: :o :D

April 14, 2003, 04:42 PM
"They started shooting and I started running." He said he did not see the shooting but it sounded like about 30 shots, adding, "I was really scared."

.... kid knows his stuff. AK-47 w/ 30 round mag! (Surprised news people got it right.)

Makes you wonder about security ... only two or three ways into the school (fenced area).

Pretty sad ....

New Orleans

P.S. Thank God the shooter is such a lousy shot ... could have been MUCH worse.

April 14, 2003, 04:43 PM
I think that the gun control politicians actually set up some of these shootings. Keep the sheep scared.

George Hill
April 14, 2003, 04:48 PM

April 14, 2003, 04:49 PM
Who do you think put Malvo and Muhammed up to the sniper attacks in MD??? Real coincidental when that whole affair took place, don't you agree?


April 14, 2003, 04:49 PM
Seawolf ...

There are two or three murders every day in New Orleans... not to mention the shootings where where people aren't killed.

There is NO need to "set-up" shootings ... just come for a visit and I'll point you in the right direction. You be the judge.


April 14, 2003, 04:51 PM
Please address nsf as well Rusty. Thanks!


April 14, 2003, 04:54 PM
NSF -- welcome too!

(Besides that, we can use your tourist dollars .. ha.ha)

Be safe ...

Oleg Volk
April 14, 2003, 04:54 PM
"No one knows whow the rifle got into the school which had metal detectors"

An AK look-alike was carried in by a person who didn't have to be concerned about metal detector operators stopping him (unless cops operate school entrance checkpoints these days). Yet another disarmed sheeple zone.

Need to make a graphic about making murder double-dare super-illegal as oppsed to just illegal...that'll teach those criminals!

Metal detectors DON'T STOP ANYONE. At best, they provide info that someone had something metallic on the person or in a bag. Usually, it is a flase alarm. Antis treat metal detectors as some sort of a magic shield rather than a very imprefect early warning system.

Coincidence or enemy action? Coincidence is more likely, as in a country of 300 million we are bound to have a nutcase or criminal acting up on occasion. So what? Put them down, leave lawful humans alone!

April 14, 2003, 04:56 PM
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2002
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 106

I think that the gun control politicians actually set up some of these shootings. Keep the sheep scared.


April 14, 2003, 05:00 PM
think that the gun control politicians actually set up some of these shootings. Keep the sheep scared.



April 14, 2003, 05:05 PM
Seawolf .. took me a minute, I'm a little slow today!

Around here, I think it has a reverse effect ---> most people I know either have one on their person or in their vehicle -- or BOTH. This just makes them want to carry more ammo!

Thinking to myself: Guess it's time to switch out my truck gun (AK-47) for the 30/30 tonight. Don't want to alarm anyone in the parking lot ! ... :rolleyes: (You should have seen the reaction I got carrying a friends 12-gauge from his car to mine in the parking garage the other day ... tee.hee.hee ... talk about sheeple)

Lock and load,


April 14, 2003, 05:06 PM

April 14, 2003, 05:10 PM
I'll third nsf003's comments.

What a coincidence about the AWB and this shooting.


April 14, 2003, 05:14 PM
How hard is it to pitch an AK over the fence behind the gym? Disarmament doesn't work! School personel ought to get $5 extra a day for carrying.

April 14, 2003, 05:25 PM
It is very sad when these things happen, for a variety of reasons. There are no foil hats anywhere in my house but I wouldn't put it past some politicians to stage something like this. It also makes me wonder how a 'gun nut' could shoot 30 rounds of 7.62x39 ammo and only kill one person.

Not to drift the topic but the first time the wife and I went to New Orleans, we lost the signs that directed to the French Quarter. We stopped at a location that 'looked' like the French Quarter (actually, the wife recognized the church that Anne Rice talks about) but was pretty isolated. We were just walking around when two policemen on foot saw us from the other side of the street. They both suddenly looked more serious and put their hands on their pistols. The crossed the street and engaged us in conversation. Once they realized we were not a thread, they told us we were not in the French Quarter and told us how to Burbon Street. They also informed us that this was not a neighborhood for a couple nice folks to be walking around in. We were really suprised. I've lived in Indianapolis, Dallas and Houston. I know what bad areas are and this one seemed like a very nice area. Nice cars on the street, the varied architecture like the French Quarter is known for. I just wouldn't have guessed it was as dangerous as they indicated.

April 14, 2003, 05:32 PM
"How can this happen in a school?" she demanded. "They have guards in there. They're supposed to have security."

condolences for the family of the victim.

blinding flash of the obvious for the woman quoted above, due to happen, any second now.

April 14, 2003, 05:36 PM
New Orleans isn't like most cities where there is a "good" side of town and a "bad" side of town. Around here it is more or less block to block. One area may be the "fancy" Garden District and, just a few blocks away, a housing project where the murder rate is out of this world.

Tourists stand out in this town, probably more than most. Streets are dark, mostly one way, poorly lit and in not so good condition. If you're driving, you can end up some place where you don't want to be and not even realize it.

There are armed guards at the schools and metal detectors at many of the schools.

Locals who can afford to send their kids to private schools. Those who can't wish they could.

God I love this City!


P.S. Guns? Assume EVERYONE has a gun!

April 14, 2003, 05:55 PM
Wonderful timing. Right as the lawsuit-protection bill is heading into the senate.

April 14, 2003, 06:15 PM
I don't believe a politician set this shooting up - I've been to N.O. more than once. The funny thing is every time a police officer or security guard would warn me that I was in a bad neighborhood I'd tell them I grew up in Baltimore and D.C. and they'd smile and say "Oh, okay."


April 14, 2003, 06:26 PM

Now that I'm home from work and can breathe without getting absolutely infuriated about this event...

My condolences to the family of the deceased. No parent should have to live to see the death of their child. I hope the wounded will recover swiftly. :(

After this, will "they" realize that:
1. their metal detectors weren't good enough
2. their security wasn't good enough
3. their "no guns allowed" signs weren't good enough
4. they created a victim disarmament zone
5. laws don't prevent madmen from breaking them

No. They'll realize that the gun laws aren't strict enough. And they will do something about that. :scrutiny:

April 14, 2003, 06:47 PM
The story NOW starts off saying:NEW ORLEANS — A gunman with an AK-47 rifle .... instead of saying "an AK-47 automatic rifle...."

Deleting "automatic" may be good journalism, but it would be HIGHLY significant if the AK still had auto capability.

:banghead: Everybody needs to realize that we are in a war! :cuss:

April 14, 2003, 07:03 PM
Whether or not it was staged, you can bet on one thing. The liberal gun-grabbers are now slapping each other on the back with glee, while at the same time telling the news media how horrendous and sad this is.

April 14, 2003, 07:12 PM
With so many murders through out this country using every type of weapon thinkable this is pretty insignificant. More so if you live in an urban area like Los Angeles, New York, DC, Chicago. You know the liberal enclaves? In Los Angeles they're approaching 1000 murders every year! But for some reason people are so stupid. This is where the leftist support comes from, all the liberal areas. It never occurs to anyone that a large portion of shootings are gang related, and that it doesn't matter what they use to do the shooting with, or that when they support some anti-American victim disarmament law they're hurting themselves.

The only reason its mentioned in the news is because it is so rare. Media outlets want ratings, they don't exist as non profit organizations so expect this to be headline news especially from the more liberal media networks and organizations.

All the leftist unrepresentatives are going to have a field day with this. Another situation that can be converted to some brownie points on someones politcal resume. "think of the children". :rolleyes:

On the other hand I have much faith in America during these current times. With all the threats out there and post 9/11 I think many have woken up.

April 14, 2003, 07:12 PM
i think i can even hear from thousands of miles away the bleating of the sheep... whats that? is that sarah brady dancing on yet another gravestone?

Bruce H
April 14, 2003, 07:49 PM
I don't really care who was behind it. I want those responsible for doing it in a hole with dirt in their faces by tomorrow night.

April 14, 2003, 09:11 PM
I'm with Bruce!:evil:

April 14, 2003, 10:01 PM
Looks like this is already being downplayed as gang-related, and even the major media outlets aren't spinning it much. Hopefully this will be long forgotten by the time the serious AWB debate begins, and no more incidents of this sort will happen. :rolleyes:

Man I hope they fry these guys good. This whole thing had me pissed off all day at work. :banghead:

April 14, 2003, 11:28 PM
Fox News just said the shooting was gang related....

April 15, 2003, 01:01 AM
That is so sad. Armed forces are attacked by their own. Kids attacked and killed in school... "Pregnant" women asking for help and then blowing up themselves along with those that would try and give aid to a person in distress... companies stabbing good people in the back in an attempt to make an extra buck...

I just don't understand. What has happened to honor and morality? I think I am getting sick too.


April 15, 2003, 01:26 AM
Oh damnit! :fire: :fire: :fire:


April 15, 2003, 01:42 AM
This one's got a real pucker factor attached to it.
However, it might not get blown out of proportion. We ran a story on it tonight, and, thankfully there was no footage of 'scary' AK47's, in fact not even a mention of it. Reported the facts, and that the shooting was gang-related.

April 15, 2003, 01:52 AM
The shooting was planned by antis (and there will be more)
and someone was killed
and there are some Liberals now happy and backslapping because of it?? Some of you are nuttier than squirrel poop, please seek help.

............and of course the news of this would never get out as there is no mieda.

What happened?? Did we get some instant hyperlink to an AssWebb thread??

April 15, 2003, 01:56 AM
I have a great idea! Lets remove prayer from school and blot out anything that has to do with God and high moral standards. While we're at it, lets tell everone that truth is relative and there are no real consaquences for our action, if it makes us feel good then it must be right.:barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:

Unfortunatly the present state of American society doesn't bode well for the future.:(


April 15, 2003, 02:03 AM
For the victims: May God, the creator of their soles give them rest.

To the families and friends of the victims: May God grant you peace, comfort, and restoration.

April 15, 2003, 02:24 AM
The shooting was planned by antis (and there will be more)and someone was killed
and there are some Liberals now happy and backslapping because of it?? Some of you are nuttier than squirrel poop, please seek help.

Sounds like you are on to something...


Seriosly as much as I despise the Schumerites, I honestly cant see him or his ilk dancing on the corpses of childrenn


April 15, 2003, 02:36 AM
The assault weapon ban is about to sunset and something like this "happens".
Of course, this is definitely not why we really should be sad. A life is lost, and we should be more concerned about that. I know it's a related topic to this article, but it seems just a little insensitive to go right into the AW ban after hearing about a horrible, destructive act. But nsf003 is probably right, this is the work of Diane Feinstein trying to get support for the ban. Then... BANG! That's when the Chinese come marching right in, killing everyone of us they see! They'll create a huge communist empire ruled by no other than Diane Feinstein, which... aww screw it.:D

April 15, 2003, 02:42 AM
Never chalk up to conspiracy any event that can simply be attributed to stupidity and apathy.

All this idle speculation that Sarah Brady, Diane Feinstein, or some other anti-rights cretin is behind these sorts of events just makes us all look stupid.

If you're so convinced that such a conspiracy exists, then prove it. Otherwise you'd be better off spending the time writing a well-phrased letter to your congresscritter about why the AW ban is dumb.

:scrutiny: :rolleyes:

April 15, 2003, 03:59 AM
Here's is the recommended planned course of action:

First, let's disarm all people who would remotely be of use in this situation; including principals, campus police, and teachers.

Second, we will put metal detectors in the school so the list of people mentioned are sure to not be able to defend our children.

Third; we will do as Oleg said; make guns on campus not only illegal, but super-duper-evil-evil illegal. That will send a clear message to the criminals who laughed at "illegal" as opposed to super-duper-evil-evil illegal.

Forth; we need to have congress critters pass more useless gun laws and not enforce them. If there are 36,000 gun laws in the books, and less than half are being enforced, then we need to pass another 36,000 more laws.. Just because criminals aren't obey the first 36,000 laws, doesn't mean they won't obey the next 36,000 laws...

Fifth, there ought to be a law against killing people...

Oh wait... There is!! :barf:

The media is going to have a field day. I can just hear Diane Frankenstein saying "There ought to be tougher laws"... :cuss: :barf: :banghead:

April 15, 2003, 08:08 AM
This one probably wasn't set up. I think the one in California, IMHO, was.

Nero burned Rome to blame it on the Christians, and Hitler burned the Reichstag to blame it on the Jews. I guess those didn't happen, since I am a nut#$&@.


April 15, 2003, 08:47 AM

"how can this happen in a school?"

What planet is this woman on?

sad to think a friggin gang can walk into a :cuss: school and commit an assination like that.

but hey, why not, who's going to be able to shoot back? theyve already disarmed everybody for them

how convenient

no body wants a raging gunbattle in a school. but are the good guys the ones who went in there and did this.

same with planes, you aint taking my gun and putting me on one of those things.

Don Gwinn
April 15, 2003, 08:53 AM
We know politicians set up disasters so as to blame them on others. The only question is whether someone set this up. It wouldn't have to be a Congressman or any national figure, by the way. Could be some rogue Brady Campaign flunky you never heard of. Of course, it is much more likely that some gangstas decided to kill each other on their own.

In addition to the Reichstag fire, there are more recent examples. Who keeps hundreds of thousands of Arabs in poverty and misery in "refugee camps" they've been kept in for 50 years now? That's right, their "brother Arabs" who seek political gain by it.
Who set up the gun battle at the Branch Davidian Compound? The Davidians, who defended their home against armed assault, or the BATF which invited TV cameras along on a gigantic raid with fabricated warrants at budget time?

If bringing up those incidents means I'm a conspiracy nut, so be it, because those things are well-documented. I'm not talking about rumors here. I'm talking about long-verified fact. If I'm to be called a nutcase for bringing it up, I'll live with that.

Note that I'm not saying this shooting was a setup. I doubt it. However, if we just assume that anyone talking about a setup is crazy simply because they bring it up, we'll be pretty easy to set up. History has not been kind to people who make themselves easy targets.

April 15, 2003, 08:57 AM
ever heard of the tonkin gulf incident?

that was my squadron btw

April 15, 2003, 08:58 AM

NEW ORLEANS -- UPDATED: 4:48 p.m. CDT April 14, 2003

Four suspects were arrested Monday after what New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass called a premeditated, "retaliatory" shooting that killed one student and injured four others at a 7th Ward school.

Police said gunfire from an AK-47 assault rifle erupted inside the John McDonogh High School gymnasium at 10:30 a.m. About 50 students were in the gym at the time, officials said. Police think the suspects climbed onto the roof of an abandoned home to scale the perimeter fence of school, which has metal detectors and is patrolled by four armed security officers.

Student Jonathan Anthony Williams, 15, died at the scene.

Three other students were taken to Charity Hospital. A 15-year-old female listed in serious condition underwent surgery on gunshot wounds to her legs. Triketa Barracks, 16, was treated for a gunshot wound to the thigh, and Michelle Brown, 16, was treated for a gunshot wound to her buttock. Both have since been released. A fourth student was treated at another local hospital for trample wounds.

Police worked two scenes at the school on Esplanade Avenue, one inside the gymnasium and another outside on school grounds. Other officers blanketed the neighborhood, some of them running with guns drawn, witnesses said.

SWAT teams responded to a third scene, a home on nearby North Tonti Street, where two of the arrests were made and several weapons were seized. Two other suspects were arrested in a car on Rocheblave Street.

Arrested were a 19-year-old, two 18-year-olds and a 15-year-old. They are not McDonogh students, School Board member Jimmy Fahrenholtz said.

WDSU NewsChannel 6 reporter Heath Allen interviewed several residents and students who speculated that the shooting was linked to the activities of a "Dumaine Street gang."

A WDSU NewsChannel 6 photographer who was present during the North Tonti Street arrests said the suspects were dressed alike in dreadlocks, white shirts and jeans.

Orleans Parish Schools Superintendent Anthony Amato said officials were trying to determine if the shooting was connected to a series of recent fights involving students at the corner of Esplanade Avenue and Broad Street.

"We're investigating to see if, in fact, there is any connection with something that happened outside the school about a week ago," Amato said.

The Esplanade Avenue school was on lockdown for about an hour and a half after the shooting, with no one allowed to enter or leave the building. At noon, school officials let in parents in small groups to pick up their children.

As news of the shooting broke, frantic relatives began arriving at the school. People lined the streets outside the school, and at least one fistfight broke out between the victims' and suspects' family members, Allen said.

One man, identified only as Tyrone, said his girlfriend's 16-year-old daughter called him from the school on her cell phone, begging her mother to come get her. The girl described to the man a chaotic scene in which at least two gunmen began firing inside the school gym.

A McDonogh teacher, who asked not to be identified, called the WDSU newsroom. She said the students in her classroom were safe but nervous.

"Schools should absolutely be safe havens," Amato said. "What you witnessed today is, unfortunately, something which has occurred across America. Today in America, you just can't insure against major incidents. However, in this school, in this system, we are going to work relentlessly to put more people on guard in terms of security and to put more people to ensure the safety of our kids."

The father of the dead student said he didn't think more officers would make a difference.

"They don't do nothing about it, I'll be honest with you," Johnny Williams said. "I watch them every day, and those kids do what they want. Every day. Security doesn't do nothing."

April 15, 2003, 11:05 AM
Seems like the perfect reason to let the AWB sunset! Criminals can obviously still get access to powerful guns so we still need ours.

If I'd been there with my "evil" AK, his 30 shots would have been more like 2 :)

April 15, 2003, 11:09 AM
someone remind me...
when building a tinfoil hat is it shiny side out or dull side out?

April 15, 2003, 11:36 AM
Shiny side out: you want the mind control rays to reflect off. :p

April 15, 2003, 12:19 PM
It would be nice if the moderators would close threads that wander off into the haze of paranoid conspiracy theories fueled by rampant fear and loathing.
No one 'set this up' and it's disgusting to me that some posters immediately make this issue all about them when there are innocents killed and wounded. The High Road, indeed :barf:

April 15, 2003, 12:25 PM
I agree. The left is positively guilty of accepting a certain level of gun violence to promote their agenda, but there's no way in hell they would actually set-up a shooting. That's crazy talk and it will not help our cause one bit.

Let's leave the insanity to the gun-grabbers shall we? ;)

April 15, 2003, 12:42 PM
Aw, let 'em go GB,

It's amazing to read this nonsense. Maybe after reading what they type in the light of day, they'll see how insane this conspiracy crap is. Guns are used by criminals every day. Brady doesn't put them all up to it, and arm them with 'assualt' rifles. Get outside and breath deeply. Spewing this crap insures the public will think your more insane than the Brady bunch. Cripes!

April 15, 2003, 03:01 PM

Autopsy: Dead Student Had Gun
4 Suspects Arrested, 3 More Sought

POSTED: 11:59 a.m. CDT April 15, 2003
UPDATED: 1:22 p.m. CDT April 15, 2003

NEW ORLEANS -- An autopsy on the 15-year-old student who was shot to death Monday inside a 7th Ward high school revealed that the teenager had a loaded gun on him when he died.

Jonathan Williams had a 9 mm handgun tucked inside his pants, according to the coroner's office. School officials have not yet determined how Williams got past the school's metal detectors with the weapon.

Four suspects are now under arrest in connection with the shooting at John McDonogh High School. Tyrone Crump, 17, Herbert Everett, 18, and Michelle Fulton, 17, each were booked on one count of first-degree murder. Larry Moses, 19, faces one count of being an accessory to murder after the fact.

Police are still seeking three suspects: Raymond Brown, 19, James Tate, 17, and Steven Williams, 18. New Orleans Police Department spokesman Capt. Marlon Defillo said Williams and Brown are believed to be the gunmen who actually shot Williams.

District Attorney Eddie Jordan said that from what he has heard, it would be appropriate to try all of the suspects as adults.

Defillo said none of the suspects was a student at the school.

Police at the school have been searching handbags and backpacks today.

They're trying to figure out how the gunmen got an AK-47 assault rifle and a handgun into the school yesterday. They believe the weapons may have been brought in through a hole in a fence.

Witnesses said Williams, a sophomore football player, clearly was the intended target. Four others were wounded in the incident, three had gunshot or graze wounds and one was trampled in the panic that followed the shooting.

Police suspect the shooting ly was in retaliation for the murder last week of a Joseph S. Clark High School student who was gunned down in the 2300 block of Dumaine Street.

* - While police are calling the shooting "retaliation," they said it is not gang-related. However, Jordan said he feels that rivalries between schools and housing developments are equivalent to gangs. :scrutiny:

:banghead: :cuss: :fire:

April 15, 2003, 03:04 PM
Gang stuff. Enough said.

April 15, 2003, 03:13 PM

NEW ORLEANS -- An autopsy on the 15-year-old student who was shot to death Monday inside a 7th Ward high school revealed that the teenager had a loaded gun on him when he died.

Jonathan Williams had a 9 mm handgun tucked inside his pants, according to the coroner's office. School officials have not yet determined how Williams got past the school's metal detectors with the weapon.
While police are calling the shooting "retaliation," they said it is not gang-related.


April 15, 2003, 03:28 PM
the anti's will only see that children were killed by an evil assult rifle. Not that the perps were adults, with illegal firearms, in a school that has security and the victim had a pistol, also illegal, in his pocket. Sure as shootin' with the assult bill coming up for review, too many gremlins will go and blast away and ruin it for the rest of us........chris3

April 15, 2003, 03:46 PM
Sure as shootin' with the assult bill coming up for review, too many gremlins will go and blast away and ruin it for the rest of us........chris3 Or even more likely, stuff that happens and normally we wouldn't hear about will be reported all over the place, just in time for people to get the image that there is a crime wave going on w/ "assult weapons" just before the sunset of the AWB. Then there will be, driven by the publicity, phone calls and letters from soccer moms everywhere to their congressmen. The end result- an even more restrictive, and perminant, AWB this time around.

Carlos Cabeza
April 15, 2003, 03:48 PM
Hmmmmm, How did he get a gun into the school ? Donogh ? :rolleyes:

April 15, 2003, 04:04 PM
They're trying to figure out how the gunmen got an AK-47 assault rifle and a handgun into the school yesterday. They believe the weapons may have been brought in through a hole in a fence.

I certainly hope they didnt pass the AK around the metal detector, or else the security guards are even worse than the TSA. I also wonder how the non-students got into the school; I bet they didnt sign-in at the main office. :rolleyes:


April 15, 2003, 04:21 PM
Hey, they're not suppose to have guns at school. VPC said that's a gun-free zone!! What's the world coming to when criminals don't respect the gun-free zones....oh wait...their criminals..they respect nothing.

El Tejon
April 15, 2003, 04:35 PM
How did he get the carbine around the TSAesque security?

Well, if it's like my last experience with TSA, he opened his case, the TSA inspector poked and prodded the bag, gave the alleged killer back the rifle, ran the bag through the machine, and then waved him through.

April 15, 2003, 04:42 PM
I sure does sound like it was gang related to me.

April 15, 2003, 06:09 PM
Alot of good that metal detector and extra security did. As usual :rolleyes:

Disarmed sheeple zones are breeding grounds for massacres.

April 15, 2003, 06:29 PM
I think this whole situation is a metaphor for the state of gun laws in America at this point in time. Here we have a school that made every attempt to control the environment, banning weapons, installing metal detectors, hiring security guards. And yet some determined criminals merely bypassed all those "security measures" by cutting a hole in the fence.

Now compare that to this country. Say the Sarah Bradys get their way and all the guns are removed from private ownership. America is now the school. Determined criminals will be the only ones armed. And our fences (borders) will still be porous to the flow of contraband arms. And those determined criminals will know with near certainty that they have nothing to fear from the citizenry, as they have all been deprived of the means to defend themselves.

Wake up, America.

Navy joe
April 15, 2003, 06:41 PM
Of course this counts towards those stats of "children" killed by guns. Sometimes when little city kids try to act like thugs to be cool they really make the cut. Then this sometimes happens to thugs. Gangs, drug wars and murder aren't a problem, let's just ban guns. Oh wait, the school already had. Maybe there's a loophole, was the school also declared a gang-free zone?

An autopsy to find a pistol? Dang, that's deep concealment.

Standing Wolf
April 15, 2003, 08:39 PM
Hello, Rawlings!

Well said!

Baba Louie
April 15, 2003, 08:47 PM
Is it SOP to leave the body unsearched at least to the point where someone finds and removes said loaded 9mm handgun at the Coroner's office ... or is that following proper procedure?

Sounds like the youngster was planning on going to a war.

Wonder if he planned on dying too?


April 15, 2003, 09:16 PM
Can't they save these arguments until after school or the weekend? Just had to bring the guns to school...

April 15, 2003, 11:11 PM
I'm sorry youngsters died, but they were both armed thugs who would have shot it out no matter what law or ban there was/is. Bury the guy who did it and send a message.

Admiral Thrawn
April 16, 2003, 05:48 AM
Too bad the 15 year old kid didn't defend himself with the gun that he made the effort to carry! :confused:

April 16, 2003, 08:05 AM
The Brady Bunch & the VPC are already wailing, but very plainly ingoring the facts that:
1. all guns got by metal detectors/security.
2. definately gang-related.
3. killed student also had a handgun in his posession.
:cuss: :cuss: :banghead:

April 16, 2003, 08:50 AM
Gang stuff. Sure sounds like it was NHI.

April 16, 2003, 11:52 AM
Latest info ...

On Monday morning, John McDonogh Senior High School student Jonathan "Caveman" Williams came to school wearing a heavy coat to hide the .45-caliber handgun stuffed into his pants.

The gun was the chief symbol of the treacherous life he was leading, the life in which he was arrested for shooting a rival in the leg two years ago, when he was just 13, and that police say led to his involvement in the fatal shooting of that same rival just a week ago.

The tucked-away gun clattered to the ground during Williams' autopsy Tuesday. He hadn't been able to draw it before he was gunned down Monday on the floor of the school's gym.

In the past week, said students and a teacher who knew him, the 15-year-old sophomore had bragged about how he took part in the slaying of Hillard "Head" Smith, 18, a student at nearby Joseph S. Clark Senior High School.

"Caveman came to John Mac and started rapping, 'Yeah, we shot Head. We did him in. I don't care if I die. We're all going to die some day,' " said Brittany Granderson, a freshman at Clark who said she knew Smith and Williams. "That's what he gets. He deserved it. He runs his mouth too much." ..... (more on web)

April 16, 2003, 12:20 PM
Pretty harsh eulogy from someone who knew you: "He deserved it."

Oh well.

April 16, 2003, 02:56 PM
In the past week, said students and a teacher who knew him, the 15-year-old sophomore had bragged about how he took part in the slaying of Hillard "Head" Smith, 18, a student at nearby Joseph S. Clark Senior High School. and a teacher? ***? Are the teachers involved with the gangs too? Sounds like the vic was a bad boy and paid the price. "Til next time, peace will reign. :banghead:

TFL Survivor

April 16, 2003, 07:54 PM
The shooting was planned by antis (and there will be more)
and someone was killed
and there are some Liberals now happy and backslapping because of it?? Some of you are nuttier than squirrel poop, please seek help.
:rolleyes: Go stick your head back in the sand. Some of us have been fighting antis for over 20 years. If you're much younger than that, I'm sure you'll learn, at least hopefully. If you're that old, shame on you. You sound like the "I don't care how many assault rifles and handguns they ban, as long as they don't touch my hunting rifles" crowd. Simply put, if you think the anti-gun crowd is beyond using, and quickly, these disasters to further their anti-gun agenda, you're not able to think for yourself, and YOU should seek help. I suggest you go back and read Don Gwinn's thought provoking post.

April 17, 2003, 01:43 AM
It's inaccurate to say they feel "happy". What they feel is vindicated, and in their smugness they parade the deaths of innocent people as a re-affirmation of their beliefs.

They're not happy, but there's something down in there that feels good.

I have no reason to believe that any of these timely incidents are planned by cunning anti-gun forces in our society. The jump to that conclusion is as much of a knee-jerk reaction as "do it for the children."

It's not nice to have to admit that people do bad things with the same guns we play nicely with, but it happens, all by itself, without any interference from agenda-motivated illuminati.

April 17, 2003, 11:14 AM
I don't feel sad for any of the involved victims. They aren't calling it gang related, but it is. We just don't always call the gangs by well known names, like bloods or crips (but we do have them here too). A lot of the street gangs are known by the areas in which they live, like the 9th ward or 5th ward. This isn't the first time something like this has happened here in New Orleans, and it won't be the last. Security at most public highschools here is a joke. The students and teachers are even saying so. What's the point in having a metal detector if no one will stop you when it goes off?

And the real problem that no one seems to be noticing is the problem with these kids parents. The mother of the victim was on tv saying that he was a good boy and that he never did anything wrong, yet he was the chief suspect in the murder of another rival kid from a different high school. Everyone asks, "where was the security?", when they should be asking "where's this kids parents!".

Oleg Volk
April 17, 2003, 12:02 PM
Just a reminder --- go easy on the labels (paranoid, head in the sand, etc.). Thanks.

April 17, 2003, 12:23 PM

Not to be argumentative or disrespectful, but what adjective would you use to describe a point of view that asserts an anti gun conspiracy that sets
up school shootings in an attempt to inflame the public and further the antis agenda?????

April 17, 2003, 01:06 PM

A week ago, one of the suspected gunmen in the rampage at John McDonogh Senior High School told a local judge he feared for his life. Someone wanted him dead, he said.


The judge planned to send the young man, who had just pleaded guilty to possession of a stolen car, to a residential drug treatment center in Houston.

"We just didn't have time to get him there," Johnson said Wednesday. "I told this child, you really, really make me nervous. This is a troubled kid, with a teardrop in his eye. We got him too late."

Instead of entering a court-sponsored program, Williams allegedly entered the crowded school gym Monday morning, toting an assault rifle ...

April 17, 2003, 06:16 PM
I was just stating my opinion. I am wrong some too, I am human. I just don't appreciate the personal attacks and name calling.

Some of you took what I said and blew it out of proportion. I did not say that every shooting that ever took place what set up. People around here must be bored, they have to attack one of their own members to ease the boredom or something.:confused: :barf: Maybe you should be writing letters to congress about the AWB or help fight the anti freedom advocates instead of calling names.

Reread Don Gwinn's post, research Nero and Adolph Hitler, and think before you start calling names again.


April 17, 2003, 07:21 PM
Just a reminder --- go easy on the labels (paranoid, head in the sand, etc.). Thanks. Point taken, sorry.
However, I saw no moderator intervention after "nuttier than squirrel poop" and "hyperlink to an AssWeb thread." With respect, sounds like you're complaining about the milder ones.

April 17, 2003, 10:01 PM
However, I saw no moderator intervention after "nuttier than squirrel poop" and "hyperlink to an AssWeb thread." With respect, sounds like you're complaining about the milder ones.

Yep, some people talk about squirrels and hyperlinks, and then people tell ME to "take the high road":rolleyes: :confused: Aren't personal attacks and flames against forum policy? Some double standard?


How did I make this thread "all about me", you are trying to spin it to make it look like I love when kids get killed. Cut the spin out, ok.


April 17, 2003, 10:02 PM
Stevie-Ray, check your pm


April 17, 2003, 10:36 PM
However, I saw no moderator intervention after "nuttier than squirrel poop" and "hyperlink to an AssWeb thread." With respect, sounds like you're complaining about the milder ones.
Cut us some slack, please.

Oleg probably posted as soon as he saw that the thread was degenerating. To say that a moderator didn't step in soon enough is to say that you fully expect a moderator not just to read every single stinkin' post on this very busy board, but to read every single post as soon as it is posted.

That's a little unreasonable, don't you think?

Oh, and I'll second what Oleg said.

Not one more personal attack on this thread, please. Attack the argument, not the arguer.


Personalize your sympathies; depersonalize your antipathies. -- W. R. Inge

April 18, 2003, 11:22 AM

I was not directing the comment at you specifically, but all those members who view an incident such as this thru the prism of their own narrow self interests.

There are people dead and wounded in a school gymnasium for gods sake, and all some posters can muster are warnings about a grand anti-gun conspiracy which sets up these types of scenarios and the hypothetical further infringement of rights that may be a possible outcome.

I believe that the concern here should
be what is and not what if. I stand by my previous post. It's regrettable that anyone read anything into it that was found to be inflammatory or offensive.

April 19, 2003, 03:48 PM
Wildalaska, dude, gburner, others.

The gun grabbers do try to capitalize on the deaths of these people. This is the text of an email from the Brady Center. I am on their mailing list to keep up with their activities.

From the Desk of Sarah Brady

Dear Brady Campaign Supporter,

A horrible school shooting occurred this Monday, when a gunman with an AK-47 automatic rifle shot and killed a student and wounded three others at a New Orleans high school.

Sadly, the death of a child like this is all too common in Louisiana. In 2000, 94 Louisiana children and teens were shot to death. In January, the annual report card of the Brady Campaign united with the Million Mom March gave Louisiana an "F" grade for failing to protect children from guns. Only six other states received an "F." Louisiana gun laws rank near the bottom in the country, and Louisiana has one of the highest gun death rates for children and teens.

Louisiana gun laws do not prohibit the sale of AK-47 style assault weapons, do not prohibit juveniles from possessing rifles and shotguns (including assault rifles), do not hold gun owners responsible for leaving loaded guns around children, do not require child-safety locks to be sold with guns, do not require background checks on all gun show sales and grant special legal immunity to the gun industry for negligent and dangerous conduct.

This tragedy should remind us all of the obvious: If America's children are to be safe from gun violence, assault weapons need to be unavailable and the Bush White House needs to stand up to the extremists and lead efforts to enforce, strengthen and renew the Federal Assault Weapons Ban.

Over the weekend President Bush, through a spokesperson, re-affirmed his campaign pledge to renew the ban on assault weapons, which sunsets in September 2004. One radical gun group blasted the White House, calling assault weapons "common household guns" that should be legal and available to all.

It is appalling that assault weapons are threatening and killing children in our communities, but what is even more appalling is that NRA extremists want to do away with the Assault Weapons Ban in 2004, instead of reauthorizing and strengthening it.

Even more atrocious, Congress is in lockstep with the NRA, poised to grant sweeping legal immunity to the gun industry from lawsuits that challenge the industry to market and distribute their guns in a responsible way.

But the Brady Campaign, with your enduring support, is working hard to prevent dangerous bills like this from passing, and we are hard at work to convince Congress to reauthorize, and even strengthen, the Federal Assault Weapons Ban so that school shootings and tragic deaths like the one in New Orleans become a thing of the past.

We need your support in these efforts now more than ever. Please help us today by going to our website and making a generous donation.

To help us save lives, please go to

April 19, 2003, 03:56 PM
(without re-reading the whole thread) I don't think anyone is denying that the antis capitalize on criminal shootings to justify their beliefs.

Staging criminal shootings isn't the same thing, though.

Admiral Thrawn
April 22, 2003, 10:10 PM
Stupid gangs... soon, students will be wearing body armor... :uhoh:

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