I've heard good things about them. Anyone here have any personal experience with them and care to comment?
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February 20, 2006, 03:44 PM
CZ has rebranded them and now carries them. Do a search on CZ shotguns or CZ ringneck or bobwhite and it should pop up.
I like mine a lot.
February 20, 2006, 04:29 PM
I bought a Armsco/Huglu SxS .410 last year at about this time. It is very well finished and shoots well. I have shot about 600 rounds through it so far. It is imported by CZ now as BozemanMT said. The only thing wrong with mine is the trigger pull is about 8-9lbs. On a 7lb. gun that is excessive. I have been working with the triggers and have it to about 7.5 lbs. now. Over all I really like it.
I really don't think these guns will hold up to a skeet or trap shooters demands in excess of 5,000 rounds a year, but for an occasional round of clays and for hunting I believe they are well worth it. I would foresee their life to be maybe 20-40 thousand shells before they start having major problems with wear.
February 20, 2006, 04:58 PM
I bought one for my dad several years ago from DeHaan (He supposedly takes the best ones and rebrands them, but who really knows). The very first time we pulled the trigger both barrels shot at the same time, which led to a pretty good bruise. It has had many hundreds of shells through it since then without any problems. I'm not sure what caused the one time mishap, but I haven't been able to replicate it no matter what I do. This gun mainly gets used for hunting, so I can't say how it would hold up to very high volume shooting.
I consider the gun to be a great value for the money. They don't have a very good resale value compared to the higher end shotguns (perhaps the CZ branded ones will as that is more recognizable) but if you plan on keeping it this isn't much of an issue.
February 20, 2006, 06:29 PM
I had a chance to fire both the semi-auto and an over/under while stationed in Turkey with the Air Force. The next time I'm there on vacation I'd like to bring one back with me as the prices "in country" are great. The caveat is that if you take your wife there, be expected to buy a lot of gold, brass, and carpets. The dollar exchange rate is very good and the ladies like to shop.
The ammo there was the problem. The local gun club reloaded their own and primers were very poor quality and I don't want to talk about the powder.
But we did manage to harvest some wild boars in the mountains near Izmir.
February 20, 2006, 06:34 PM
I too have had huglu doubles. Mine was a DeHaan. The first one was a 12 ga. that doubled quite frequently. The firing pins were also way too long and almost pierced the metal on the primers. Mark DeHann replaced it with another.
Mark is extremely good to deal with and he will make it right if you have problems.
His desire for quality is the BEST I have ever seen.
February 20, 2006, 07:17 PM
I have a DeHaan/Huglu U2 in 20 ga. I use for skeet. It's a beautiful gun for the money, but I did break a firing pin recently. Mike DeHaan replaced it (actually both) free of charge (although I bought it slightly used) and walked me through the replacement/fitting process. If I break another one, however, I'll probably fix it and trade it towards a Beretta. :)
February 21, 2006, 02:23 AM
Does this say anything about durability?
On June 28 - 29, 2002 five members of the Hamilton, Montana Gun Club shattered the standing ATA world record for doubles trap targets shot at in 24 hours. Three of the shooters used DeHaan shotguns. Immediately after finishing the gruelling task of each firing nearly 7,000 rounds over 24 hours, the shooters turned and said "You ought to be dang proud of your guns!"
Durable? How about 6,950 rounds in 24 hours without a single problem?
When the final horn sounded, the squad had shot at 34,750 registered doubles targets with an astounding 82.06 % overall accuracy.
- 1,390 boxes of shells
- 2,200 pounds of lead
- 257 cases of targets
- Ammunition: Rio 1 oz loads donated at cost by manufacturer (Larry Ward shot 1 1/8 oz load throughout)
- Guns used: DeHaan, Perazzi, Browning, and Remington
- Targets: White Flyers (orange and white)
- Traps: Pat-Traps (no failures) with Canterbury Voice Releases
Trap World Record Challenge
The challenge started when Darien Sporting Goods gun club, located in Wisconsin, sent former members Al and Mary Gehl a news clipping that five of their club members broke the doubles world record with 30,000 targets. Members of the Hamilton Gun Club quickly decided they could beat that record and plans were put in motion. They decided to put a practical beneficial twist to the effort by making it a charity shoot for Camp Mak-A-Dream. The Camp located in Montana provides a cost-free "camp experience" for kids and adults who are battling cancer.
The squad was comprised of club members Larry Ward, Ray "Shadow" McBride, Paul Harris, Bob McBride, and 14-year-old Carl Harris. Carl Harris was called up at the last moment when Al Gehl had to drop out of the squad because his wife Mary, fell ill from the exhaustion of organizing the event.
Hamilton's modest clubhouse, wedged between an airport runway and a cow pasture, swelled to overflowing with supporters. At 9:08 a.m. the first shots were fired, and for the next 24 hours came the steady "bang-bang" cadence of shots, building slowly toward the 34,750 total. A mountain of spent shells and empty target boxes grew beside the shooting area.
Observers felt that it was the steady rhythm of shots that made the team so successful. Squad leader Larry Ward early on set the pace for the team that would carry them through the ordeal. The effect was hypnotic. Fifty bangs, rippling through the stations and then Larry's command "Move", over and over again. Every two hours there was a 10 to 15 minute break, as volunteers scrambled to refill the trap house. Then back at it. The team seemed to have an unwritten pledge - no complaining. No one complained once, but things got pretty quiet sometimes. Once, Larry's "move" command met with a dull non-response. "I mean it, Move!", Larry growled. The audience chuckled understandingly, and the squad, looking then more like a prison work gang than anything else, shuffled sideways.
Shooting for 24 hours straight is grueling. From the hotels in town, one could hear the faint rhythmic "boom - boom" in the depths of the night. The toughest time was just before daybreak. A slow drizzle had started. and nearly all the helpers had fallen asleep in lawn chairs beneath the tarps. White targets were white streaks before drifting out of the lights into the mist. Larry Ward shot two 50-straights in a row, not even realizing it until a scorekeeper pointed it out. Throughout the event three of the five shooters shot multiple 50-straights, which in a marathon race is amazing in itself.
Although the crowd thinned during the dark night hours, well-wishers began to drift in about 5:00 a.m. Observers, including TV crews and newspaper reporters, stood quietly in the rain unwilling to break the silence. At 5:28 a.m., without much warning, the previous record fell. Amidst cheers, and with more than 3½ hours to go, fans and the team alike then turned to the challenge of besting the previous record by the largest possible margin, one that was sure to stand in the record books. The shooters themselves also hadn't lost sight of the fact that every shot meant more money for Camp Mak-A-Dream. With the record-breaking shot, the team woke up, the fans woke up, and a festival atmosphere returned.
Time ran out at 9:07 a.m. just as a heavy rain commenced. The exhausted squad managed a grin, then took account of the toll: blistered and bloody hands/fingers, bruises, cramps, swollen faces and shoulders, stiff joints, etc. The team wearily stood together in the rain for photos. They wincingly accepted handshakes from congratulators who seemed to have forgotten the punishment those hands had just taken. The entire squad avowed that they would never try such a thing again, and then they went home to bed. It had truly been a "once in a lifetime experience" that raised over $15,000 for a very worthwhile charity and put 5 men and a small gun club in the books.
World Record Team (left to Right) - Ray "Shadow" McBride, Paul Harris, Bob McBride, Carl Harris, Larry Ward
February 21, 2006, 09:22 AM
I saw them at the Dallas Gun Show several months ago. They are very impressive looking guns and seemed to be an excellent value for the money. I researched them extensively on this and other forums and found a large number of complaints regarding broken firing pins, doubling, and barrel selectors not working correctly. The American Rifleman reviewed the CZ Bobwhite in the February, 2006 issue and it did not shoot to point-of-aim. It seems to be a hit or miss situation on the Huglus. You either get a great one or one that breaks early and needs replacing or repairing. The CZ doubles and DeHaans are all made by Huglu. Service from DeHaan is reputed to be excellent. Warranties also differ, depending on the dealer. I guess you pay your money and take your chance.
February 21, 2006, 04:41 PM
Mine broke after about 4000 rounds (do a search find the thread)
CZ had a new one in my hands less than 2 weeks later.
And considering the number of new guns that I have that have had problems, I have no problem with that.
I'd buy another.
February 22, 2006, 01:58 AM
I picked up a 12 gauge semi-auto a few weeks ago and have put a couple hundred rounds through it. Haven't had a chance to pattern it, yet, but I've been able to hit clays with it. Out of roughly 200 rounds, there were two times when I pulled the trigger and it just clicked. Running the same shells through again, both of them made the appropriate boom. My HD gun is a pump, but I thought the CZ might cause me to get out and shoot a bit more. The Turkish walnut is much nicer looking than black plastic and the trap/skeet ranges out here tend to frown on shorter barrels. Now that I know that CZ is not going to be importing any more of them, I'm thinking of getting the 20 gauge, too.
February 27, 2006, 09:43 AM
Just brought back an O/U from Turkey. Beautiful gun but after a couple of rounds it started doubling now I'm looking for a good repair shop. Any suggestions?
February 27, 2006, 04:30 PM
I have Huglu 28 ga O/U and it is an excellent gun.
March 16, 2006, 03:14 AM
Bunch of guys were bringing them back from Turkey when my unit deployed. OUs under $400, SxSs under $500, pumps and semis around $200. Gorgeous work, shoot well. All the tests I've seen make them to be fantastic.
They've been through at least three importers in the last five years, starting with one clown who was pricing them at $3000 (Note those prices above are RETAIL outside the gate of a military base. $3000 is 1000% markup or more) and insisted the military guys were getting "Seconds," even though he was using the EXACT SAME PICS as Huglu and the local gun store were. Also insisted it was illegal for a GI to sell one after bringing it back (Wrong), so you'd have to buy from him and he wouldn't do work on the military bringbacks even if paid.
The CZ ones look very plain and rebranded. DeHaan seems to have the real deal. Considering importation costs, shipping and customs, his prices are reasonable.
March 17, 2006, 05:07 PM
This is strictly hearsay, but I've heard that a lot of the good deals servicemen got on shotguns in Turkey weren't the same as the export quality guns you see from DeHaan, CZ, or Mossberg (Khan). In some cases they were better, fancier grades, other cases, more often not as good. As an ex-GI myself, I don't mean to demean anyone or their gun, so feel free to correct a myth if I'm wrong. But I know of similiar stories about stuff GIs brought home from Korea and oft times those stories were true.
March 17, 2006, 09:52 PM
I have 3 Huglus. The first was a DeHaan bought 3 years ago, it is a 12 ga. model SOwith 28" bbls. This is my primary waterfowl gun has been just great, even when muddy and wet. Next I bought a CZ Bobwhite in 28 ga. 26" bbls. This gun is an absulute joy to hunt with, it is light can carry it all day grouse hunting. Well I liked those 2 so well I bought a CZ Bobwhite 20 ga. 28" bbls. Have only shot clays with it so far, but think it will be a good shotgun. Will say this, DeHaan's are a higher grade and finish than CZs. They are more refined but still like the CZs, besides they are cheaper. Now as soon as one of them import a 16 ga. straight grip, double trigger, on a 16 or 20 ga. frame, I'll buy it.
March 20, 2006, 09:23 AM
I shot some clays in a friends field Saturday (he has a voice activated clay thrower); I was using a Browning Grade III Citori 12 gauge, and a CZ/Huglu Bobwhite SxS 28 gauge. It seemed obvious the Browning is better finished and fitted, but the CZ broke just as many clays, and was a lot of fun.
March 21, 2006, 02:57 PM
I'm over in Turkey right now :)
There are a lot of varients produced; you can order the guns with the metal and wood you want or take them off the shelf. The triggers, after spending a few hours in one of the shops, are...variable... I'm having a couple made to my (and my wife's) specifications, and I'll get some spare parts at the same time.
March 22, 2006, 10:07 PM
Wakal- so what kind of pricing are you seeing there?
June 3, 2006, 03:03 PM
Now that my car showed up, I'm "made" in the local mafia (or the good old boy version thereof), and I've had a chance to check out the shops both around Incirlik and here my current duty station, I found that the local retail prices have jumped a bit thanks to CZ. As usual, a year behind the price curve (sigh).
A 103CE is right at $600 now without the KDV (value added tax). What they consider normal guns here are not what I see on Gunbroker or in the Blue Book(s) though.
I have a 103FE (Over/under, vent ribs, Monte Carlo stock, schnabel forend, oil finish, full scroll engraved everydamnthingexceptthebarrels, selectable barrels, choke tubes) here beside the computer; a 103FE which doesn't look anything like the 103FE's online. That one is the most expensive gun on the price sheet at 1,200 YTL, or $650 after the tax and dollar rate are applied.
I also found out that Huglu made a eight-round mag-fed semi-auto for a while. Looks rather like a A5 with AK mags, and I can't find one to buy (sigh).
Just needs some pearl grips to be fit for that mythical New Orleans pimp...
June 4, 2006, 02:44 PM
to be fit for that mythical New Orleans pimp
Funny you should say that. I have a 20 ga side-by-side with similar engraving (minus the side plates) and my "buddies" call it my south of the border house of ill repute personal protection device- in PC terms, of course. (But not to be confused with a similarly named device constructed of latex!:evil: )
September 22, 2006, 02:47 PM
Finally had a chance to drive down to Incirlik with a pocket full of cash.
Prices have gone up, and I noticed that well over half of the guns in stock had CZ-USA rollmarks. I deleted the pictures in my earlier post, sorry, but here are some different ones:
This is what $3,400 worth of Turkish shotguns looks like:
Consecutive serial numbered .410 model 202 (no idea why my friend wanted them, but they are pretty cute): http://www.dreadnaught-industries.com/turkey_files/shotguns/shotguns_202_Cary.jpg
A "field grade" 103C (with CZ markings) in 28: http://www.dreadnaught-industries.com/turkey_files/shotguns/shotguns_103c_28_Cary.jpg
A standard grade 103C in 12: http://www.dreadnaught-industries.com/turkey_files/shotguns/shotguns_103c_12_Cary.jpg
My wife's new 103FE in 20: http://www.dreadnaught-industries.com/turkey_files/shotguns/shotguns_103fe_Liota_2.jpg
And last, that same 20 next to my "pimp gun" (103FE): http://www.dreadnaught-industries.com/turkey_files/shotguns/shotguns_103fe_Liota_3.jpg
"Tag" price on the 103 in 12 was $540; the .410 were $490, and the 28 was $635. As usual, decent discounts for buying a heap of guns and better discounts for the pimp roll of c-notes instead of plastic. Glancing through Gun Digest's price guide and the 16th edition Standard Catalog, I noticed that what I have doesn't match what the "books" say is being imported. Those side by sides are marked as Ringnecks and case hardened as such, but with double triggers like the Bobwhites. Still, even half of (list) price doesn't hurt. My wife's 103FE is carried as a Woodcock Deluxe, and was just over half list. I still can't place that trap gun, though, as both books show that engraving pattern as a "custom grade IV" at $2,800 yet that sure isn't what they are selling for here.
I'm looking forward to getting back to a first world country where I can shoot guns that are not marked "Propery Of..." on the side. Pictures and gun fondling are all well and good, but nothing beats the smell of cordite on the range.
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