Askins: .308 don't kick!


PDA






fistful
February 23, 2006, 02:48 AM
I came across this in the Dec. 1983 issue of American Rifleman, in an article by Col. Charles Askins.

The Army can give you a lot of abstruse reasons for swapping off the perfectly satisfactory '06 round for the shorter and less powerful .308, but the real truth of the story is that the run-of-the-mill GI squawked his head off because the older round kicked him. The .308 has no more kick than a .22 Short. It should have made him happy....It kills about like the much older .300 Savage, a close relative.

What goes on here?


Leaving aside the distinction between 7.62 Nato and .308 Winchester, I thought the .308 was a close duplicate of the .30-06, and therefore closer in terminal ballistics to the .30-ought than to the .Savage. As for recoil, I haven't shot .308 since I traded my Steyr .308 for a .30-06 Mauser. The two guns being so different, I'd have no way of comparing the "kick."

If you enjoyed reading about "Askins: .308 don't kick!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Dienekes
February 23, 2006, 04:32 AM
Askins had a lot of experience but also generated a lot of purple prose to get attention. Not to mention he had a very high opinion of himself.

An '06 generates a fair amount of recoil but it matters greatly what you shoot it in and how it's stocked. The old 1903 Springfield was considered a kicker whereas the gas operated Garand with the same cartridge wasn't. The 7.62 (.308) M14 isn't a .22 LR but anyone this side of a nursing home can shoot it all day long without discomfort.

Sometimes it seemed like Charlie Askins and George Herter were twins separated at birth. At least they sounded like it. You never knew what wild claim they were going to make next.

fistful
February 23, 2006, 09:11 AM
George who?

wanderinwalker
February 23, 2006, 12:39 PM
I came across this in the Dec. 1983 issue of American Rifleman, in an article by Col. Charles Askins.



What goes on here?


Leaving aside the distinction between 7.62 Nato and .308 Winchester, I thought the .308 was a close duplicate of the .30-06, and therefore closer in terminal ballistics to the .30-ought than to the .Savage. As for recoil, I haven't shot .308 since I traded my Steyr .308 for a .30-06 Mauser. The two guns being so different, I'd have no way of comparing the "kick."

Shooting ball in either an M-1 Garand or an M-14-type rifle, I personally can't tell a lick of difference between the two. One kicks just like the other, IMO. A 1903 Springfield will back up pretty smartly, but I think an extra 1" on the LOP of the stock would have solved the worst of that handily. (Gotta keep that nose away from the cocking knob. Sometimes, for me at least, the two DO meet, with unpleasant results.)

Actually, I think ergonomically the M-1 and M-14-type would also benefit from a little extra length of pull. I'm not a big guy and I find my nose resting on the reciever when in a "natural" position.

But physics are physics as far as recoil goes. Launch similar weight projectiles at similar speeds from similar weight and designed rifles, you will experience similar recoil.

bakert
February 23, 2006, 02:13 PM
To a new or inexperienced shooter or even someone that hasn't fired one for a number of years the .308/.762 does kick. Most people that are serious about shooting acclimate themselves to it quickly though. Although Charlie Askins had a world of knowledgw and experience He was always making some kind of statement poking fun at others just to get attention and to stir up things as dienekes says. Most of those old guys in that era had very large egos and some of them at each others throats continuously. Charlie Askins and George Herter were a lot alike when it came to making wild claims about some things. Anyone here remember the Herters catalogs. As a young guy I use to order a lot of stuff from there.

mrmeval
February 23, 2006, 06:19 PM
A fine and fitting end for ol George.

George who?

355sigfan
February 23, 2006, 06:30 PM
.

But physics are physics as far as recoil goes. Launch similar weight projectiles at similar speeds from similar weight and designed rifles, you will experience similar recoil.

True but semi auto actions soak up some recoil and thats why Garands have less felt recoil than the Springfield. Same reason Gas operated shotguns have less recoil than Pumps.
Pat

grendelbane
February 23, 2006, 06:53 PM
When I was a teen-ager, I would browse the Herter's catalog. Since every item paid for itself several times over, I ordered one of everything in the catalog.

Now, I am a billionaire! And I owe it all to George Leonard Herter.

Warren Buffet

P.S.

There is very little difference between Teddy Roosevelt's .30/06 and modern day .308. Therefore there is very little difference in their recoil. My Springfield does kick a little fit more than my Garand, but my M1a kicks about the same as the Garand.

IOW, a difference that makes no difference is not much of a difference!:neener:

McCall911
February 23, 2006, 09:05 PM
Askins: .308 don't kick!

True, Askins! They don't if you don't shoot 'em!
:neener:

mp510
February 23, 2006, 09:59 PM
The first time I fired a .30-06 was in a M1917, and it kicked and I felt it, but the thing didn't hurt, and that was with full house M2 Ball ammo. At a later point, I started shooting .308 in a Century MAS49/56, and it didn't feel like much of anything. Guess it must be personal perception or something.:confused: :confused:

wanderinwalker
February 23, 2006, 10:46 PM
The first time I fired a .30-06 was in a M1917, and it kicked and I felt it, but the thing didn't hurt, and that was with full house M2 Ball ammo. At a later point, I started shooting .308 in a Century MAS49/56, and it didn't feel like much of anything. Guess it must be personal perception or something.:confused: :confused:

Different systems, different rifles, who knows. M2 ball in .30-06 isn't terribly hot either. A 150gr bullet at about 2750-fps IIRC. It is easy to get more speed out of a .30-06 with that bullet weight, and increasing bullet weight will bump your recoil level up noticeably.

I've always felt that the .308 is a kicker, but not terrible.

pete f
February 24, 2006, 04:29 AM
I truely believve most of recoil is imaginary. put good ear protection on and good eye protection and it seems like kids will shoot all day with some fairly good sized rounds. My son has fired 40 round of 180 grain 30-06 plus a box of 165 gr too all in one sitting and he was under 80 pounds and about 5-2 when he did it using a ruger no 1s. If you fight it it will eat you up, just let it go and you hardly notice it.





of course this does no apply to 6 pounds .338's or 460 weatherbies of any weight. They do kick and it does hurt.

If you enjoyed reading about "Askins: .308 don't kick!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!