[Merkin.Muffley]

Pictures of guns dangerous! Gun pictures kill hundreds, maim thousands!

DENVER - A 16-year-old boy was arrested Wednesday after postings on the popular Web site MySpace.com allegedly showed him holding handguns, authorities said.

The teen was being held at a juvenile detention center facing three misdemeanor charges of juvenile possession of a handgun, said district attorney spokeswoman Pam Russell. He is due in court Feb. 27.

Police searched the boy’s home after receiving a tip from Evergreen High School on Feb. 10, the same day he was suspended, officials said.

School spokesman Rick Kaufman said parents were calling with concerns and some kept their children home after photographs posted on the boy’s profile on MySpace.com, a social networking Web site, began circulating through the community.

One photo allegedly showed him lying on a floor surrounded by nine rifles with the caption, “Angel o’ death on wings o’ lead.”

“The photos were very disturbing, and while the content was not a direct threat, we just felt it was important for us to take appropriate disciplinary action,” Kaufman said, adding the student could be expelled.

Evergreen High School is in the same district as Columbine High School, where two teenage gunmen killed 12 students and a teacher before committing suicide in 1999. One of the gunmen had posted a threat on the Internet before the shootings.

[1911 guy]

The horror! The humanity!

What are we come to that being juvenile, while being a juvenile, is automatically threatening? While I think his energies could be spent other than billing himself as the Angel of Death and his parents should monitor more of his internet surfing, he did nothing criminal. Now they've just made a young man with resentment as well as angst.

[GTSteve03]

DENVER - A 16-year-old boy was arrested Wednesday after postings on the popular Web site MySpace.com allegedly showed him holding handguns, authorities said.
Are 16-year olds allowed to own handguns? I'm honestly ignorant on that particular law, I know you have to be 21 to buy one but can you own one if younger? Say a parent bought it or something.

Also, how do they know these weren't Airsoft or other replicas?

This just seems dangerously close to another "thought crime" if you ask me. :scrutiny:

[taliv]

while i agree in general that this isn't a matter for the 'authorities', it sounds like the kid is in serious need of a reality check.

[HankB]

Too many questions raised here . . .

* What did the kid do at school to prompt a suspension?

* Did the alleged blog statements meet the legal standard to qualify as "terroristic threats" (or whatever the local definition is) under the law?

* In the absence of actions meeting the legal definition of making terroristic threats, on what legal basis can a school expel a student for actions that do not take place AT school, or at a school event?

* What judge issued a warrant to search the kid's home?

* And a biggie - was anything illegal actually found at the kid's home?

I'm NOT suggesting the kid is a choirboy by any means, but the story raises more questions than it answers. (I'd also like to know if the kid has a prior criminal record as the Columbine killers did, or if he's taking prescription meds, as at least one of the Columbine killers was.)

[#shooter]

I will play devils advocate…..

What if…. there was this posting, everyone was aware of it, and then the kid shot up the school the following week, or killed a friend, or his friend killed someone with your gun, or there was a AD/ND. It is obvious these weapons (if they truly are actual firearms) are not secured. I guarantee when the parents of the deceased take you to court and show that picture to the jury, you will be filing for bankruptcy by the end of the week.

Everyone would complain that the school didn't do enough, the parents didn't do enough, and the police didn't do enough. It was obvious that he was going to do something.

Both sides are justified. Maybe his punishment was too harsh. Personally, I find it repulsive that the parents don’t restrict access or allowed this behavior.

What if he had friends over that could have “borrowed” a firearm? Was the ammo secure? As harmless it may seem, if this kid or one of his friends had access to these weapons and used them against our children we would want answers especially if this picture came out and nothing was done.

The NRA advocates “Store guns so that they are inaccessible to children and other unauthorized users. Gun shops sell a wide variety of safes, cases, and other security devices. While specific security measures may vary, a parent must, in every case, assess the exposure of the firearm and absolutely ensure that it is inaccessible to a child.” I agree 100%.

[Master Blaster]

Evergreen High School is in the same district as Columbine High School, where two teenage gunmen killed 12 students and a teacher before committing suicide in 1999. One of the gunmen had posted a threat on the Internet before the shootings.

I think that tells you everything you need to know about why the school etal reacted the way they did.

Sort of like us invading Iraq (hint a preemptive strike).

The real problem here is that this has beeen blasted over the media, considering the fact that its a juvenile, who has not yet been delcared delinquent. Nor do they know if an actual crime was committed.

[JerryM]

In some states, and I imagine most or all, a minor cannot own a handgun.

While I am a strong proponent of gun rights, I agree that that teen should be apprehended. He is obviously immature and not competent to own guns if he he showing them off on a blog.

Such a person is very likely to go over the edge and shoot someone.

Jerry

[Justin]

Yeah, beware the wrath of errant bloggers, they could go off at any time.


I'll reserve judgement until a link to his myspace account surfaces.

[El Tejon]

Columbine has Red staters all blissninny.:D

[Justin]

Also, a link to the original nooze story would be helpful.

[Old Fuff]

While it might be illegal for this young man to purchase these guns, nothing in the story says he did. It is possible, and even probable that his parents did the buying. What he is apparently guilty of is having his picture taken with some guns, and using a questionable caption.

Beyond that, we don't know much - particulary about his background and past behavior.

One thing is clear however, in liberal blissnanny country any youngster that's associated with firearms in any way is asking for trouble. What they are up against is adults that aren't really adults anymore... :(

[TarpleyG]

What if…. there was this posting, everyone was aware of it, and then the kid shot up the school the following week, or killed a friend, or his friend killed someone with your gun, or there was a AD/ND. It is obvious these weapons (if they truly are actual firearms) are not secured. I guarantee when the parents of the deceased take you to court and show that picture to the jury, you will be filing for bankruptcy by the end of the week.
What if you might be killed by a drunk driver and he had a myspace.com site that depicted him drinking alcohol. Is it okay to have him scooped up just because he might kill you tonight DWI? Must be a big fan of that Tom Cruise movie...

Life is full of what-ifs. Are you suggesting that trampling all over a person's rights is the answer to this? A 16 year old kid with a handgun is not illegal. There are a slew of kids even younger than that that I shoot with on a weekly basis that own their own pistols. Their parents bought them for them but they are their's nonetheless.

No, proper parenting is the answer...not the government.

Greg

[Merkin.Muffley]

Justin - Here's the link to the original news story.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11514585/

While I don't doubt the NRA advocates locking guns up to prevent access by children - how many of you grew up in homes where guns weren't locked up? I did. My father gave me my first rifle when I was 9, I had unrestricted access to it, as I did to his guns which were stored in a closet. I wouldn't want to substitute proper firearm training and raising a child who knows right from wrong with a lock. That's the nanny state approach to raising children, and it's wrong.

[lucky_fool]

Here's a different article with some additional detail.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/7321763/detail.html

[blackdragon]

Another said that music "makes the difference between a good day and me holding some stupid person at gunpoint in the frozen foods section with a gun to their head while its being pressed against a bag of peas."

Hmm...not the wisest thing to say in public. Especially when accompanied by pictures of yoursefl armed.

Not that I'm saying this should (or shouldn't) be illegal, but it is on the list of "things my kid knows better to do, or he's gonna get his butt kicked".

Some kids are born with no common sense....schools won't help there, parents need to step up more. But modern times, with parents (in many cases) not caring, and no religion (pick your favorite peaceful one), kids seem to lack sense of right and wrong...or sense in general.

*sigh*

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Juvenile stupidity is neither uncommon nor illegal. You would think that our current crop of "college-educated", "highly-trained," and "professional" school administrators would know this.

The kid desperately needs a reality check. But he does not need to go to jail.

What crime has he comitted, and what law has he broken?

[El Tejon]

Allegedly the crime of possessing a handgun under the age of 18.

Columbine really shook them up out there, HTG.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

It's illegal to posses a handgun if you're underaged? I can understand (sort of) making it illegal to purchase a handgun if you're underage, but merely holding one constitutes a crime?

How are you supposed to take your chillins to the range wihtout breeaking the law?

[#shooter]

What if you might be killed by a drunk driver and he had a myspace.com site that depicted him drinking alcohol. Is it okay to have him scooped up just because he might kill you tonight DWI? Must be a big fan of that Tom Cruise movie...
Lets get this straight... I do not like Tom Cruise movies. I am not suggesting tramplelling over someones right to free speech, but people do not have a right to threaten others, which it seems he did. And yes if I saw a 16 year old drinking or drunk in the picture he should be scooped up. He may not kill tonight, but the photo shows past behavior which does indicate future tendancys. Hello! McFly! Underage drinking is illegal. And to top it off my aunt was killed by a teenage drunk driver while out for a walk with my uncle. Thank you for defending potential murders, because that is what a DUI is.

Life is full of what-ifs. Are you suggesting that trampling all over a person's rights is the answer to this? A 16 year old kid with a handgun is not illegal. There are a slew of kids even younger than that that I shoot with on a weekly basis that own their own pistols.

Greg
No I am not suggesting we trample his rights. He does have the right to be an idiot. But he can not threaten people. Do you know that a 16 year old with a handgun is not illegal in Denver? I can't speak for Denver, but there may be states that have laws that prevent young teens from having guns. I don't know. Considering this is Denver there is the Columbine context they must deal with.

Their parents bought them for them but they are their's nonetheless.
No, proper parenting is the answer...not the government.
Greg
I think the picture speaks for itself. If there was proper resonsible parenting this would not happen in the first place.

[Thefabulousfink]

Most of his quotes sound like they could just be typical teenage angst, I know that I said similar things when I was a teenager (in a joking maner of course), but that was before Columbine and culture of common sense existed at my school. These days the comments could be taken either way, but a little investigation into other aspects of the boy's life could easily determin if he was serious well before there is any reason to arrest him.

Now we have taken a teenager with at least a little anger directed at society (which is normal for a teen) and given him good reason to have a lot of anger.

Stupidity + 'Zero Tollerance' = more problems than it solves.

[FPrice]

It's illegal to posses a handgun if you're underaged? I can understand (sort of) making it illegal to purchase a handgun if you're underage, but merely holding one constitutes a crime?

How are you supposed to take your chillins to the range wihtout breeaking the law?

AFAIK most states laws allow for you to take your child to the range and let them shoot under your supervision. However, giving them a gun and sending them off by themselves is almost certainly not allowed.

Now, if this "kid" did this posing with his parents' knowledge and assistance I think all of them deserve some sort of very close legal scrutiny.

It seems like the kid was not just holding a gun. He was making statements which clearly indicate that he does not possess any sort of maturity and judgement to have access to firearms.

[El Tejon]

HTG, depending on the language of Red's statute, yes it may be a crime (or act of delinquency).

By making exceptions to the crime, e.g. Indiana Code 35-47-2.5-14 (hunting, target shooting, educational events with parent or adults). I assume Red law has similar exceptions.

[M.E.Eldridge]

Well, the kid might just be showing off. You know, trying to be "gangsta" and what not.

When my cousin was in high school he didn't have a care and he was always late for school. So he got a detention and his parents were unable to pick him, so they asked if I would.

I obliged and when I picked him up there were these two "gangsta" types throw paper balls and pebbles at what most would consider a geek. He kind of fliched when these paper balls hit him and they were loudly talking about what he would do if someone was to try to "cap him with a nine".

Now, I was I working for the DNR and I had my pistol on me and was in uniform. This kind of crap really irks me so I went to tell them to knock it off. They weren't really ready to listen to me......until they saw my "nine"(still holstered of course). They apologized to the kid and ran off. If they were in a gunfight or even if they came into contact with a gun weilding type they would run away or hit the deck crying for momma.

Maybe this kid is dangerous, maybe hes just a wannabe "gangsta" type. Either way he seems to irresponsible and immature to handle a gun. I have no problems with kids shooting, in fact I really like it/encourage it. Its the future of our support, you know. But this kid is just plain stupid. My brother's kid is 8 and he shoots an air rifle I got him for Christmas. He keeps on his bedroom and never plays with, points at things he doeasn't intend to shoot, or show it to friends. Maybe this kid is the same way and he just made a flub. Or he could be dangerous.

Conclusion:more info is needed to make a solid conclusion.

[k_dawg]

by that theory..

When my nephew comes over, and he even HOLDS a firearm in our presense.. it is a crime? Even if it is fully unloaded?

Jeez, what about Oveg's kids? They're obviously not 18.. that is a crime??

[Autolycus]

Too many questions raised here . . .

* What did the kid do at school to prompt a suspension?

* Did the alleged blog statements meet the legal standard to qualify as "terroristic threats" (or whatever the local definition is) under the law?

* In the absence of actions meeting the legal definition of making terroristic threats, on what legal basis can a school expel a student for actions that do not take place AT school, or at a school event?

* What judge issued a warrant to search the kid's home?

* And a biggie - was anything illegal actually found at the kid's home?

I'm NOT suggesting the kid is a choirboy by any means, but the story raises more questions than it answers. (I'd also like to know if the kid has a prior criminal record as the Columbine killers did, or if he's taking prescription meds, as at least one of the Columbine killers was.)

Sometimes just having anything gun related is enough....

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=128152&highlight=Jerling

However I don't know the specifics of this particular instance. I went to the Jr. High in the link I just posted. Its a sad day.

[Terrierman]

It seems to me the wrong party is under arrest. Highly irresponsible parenting to leave the firearms unsecured is the problem here IMHO.

[tulsamal]

However, giving them a gun and sending them off by themselves is almost certainly not allowed.

Gee, how did Skeeter, Elmer and Bill Jordan ever manage to grow up without being arrested? Any time you read the memoirs of the old great ones they will talk about buying their first handgun when they were 12 or something and going off every time they could to shoot it. I'm just 44 and I used to borrow my Grandfather's Browning Nomad, drop it in an open holster, and walk around the dirt roads of Coal County looking for any likely vermin that needed blasting. Nobody ever even gave me a second glance. (I would have been 13-14 at the time.)

I REALLY think we are making a mistake today by treating anybody under the age of 18 as a child. (Sometimes even treating anybody under 21 as a child. Drinking age anyone?) Lots of responsible teenagers USED to be treated as adults and they tended to act that way. Today we treat them as children and then we are suprised when they don't take responsibility for their actions when they get caught with drugs or driving drunk. We demand that every gun be physically "locked up" rather than just teaching children to leave them alone unless we say otherwise. Sad.

Gregg

[Autolycus]

It seems to me the wrong party is under arrest. Highly irresponsible parenting to leave the firearms unsecured is the problem here IMHO.

A lot of parents of my parents friends used to keep a shotgun on a high shelf or in the corner or in the closet. It seems they were able to survive. Perhaps holding kids responsible for their crimes and when they act upon them. I understand the schools worries but do they do check the blogs of all their students on myspace.com? If they do then so be it.

Not to say that what the kid did isnt juvenile and immature. However I dont know any 16 year olds who were very mature and non juvenile.

A call to the parents would have been a much more appropriate response than calling the cops.

[Geno]

All I can say is that I am nearly at a loss for words. Those who have read my posts know that I have a Ph.D. in K-12 Educational Administration and over 20 years service in public schools. I have been a teacher, principal and now I am a Grad. Prof. teaching "Educational Leadership". That is precisely what is missing here--leadership!

This matter has so many mess-ups that it is shocking! First, while legally a school CAN intervene 24/7/365 for all of the years of enrollment, prudence dictates not to. That sometimes opens doors to then have police intervene--but, the school and the legal system should never both intervene with punishment--remember, in America we can that double jeopardy. But, sometimes administrators (especially cowards) use the police as attack dogs--Sick 'em!

In my humble opinion, these school officials MESSED UP BIG-TIME! They could have mandated therapy and so many other efforts that could have worked, including home school until the assure that he was safe and sound--not a threat, family therapy, etc. Again, I am not saying the student did no wrong; he did. He messed up, but jailed?

I hope that someone with common sense becomes involved and that a very serious effort is made to help this young man fully comprehend his wrong-doings. The same thing can and should be said regarding the parents. Where were they?

Edited to add:

I am not sitting here playing Sunday morning quarter-back with no real-life experience. I have been THERE, I.E. when I was a high school principal, I dealt with the BAFT, FBI and State Police regarding a situation of a former drop-out who kidnapped girlfriend, possession of fully-automatic weapons, dynamite, etc. The kids actually was blowing up crack house competitors in Detroit. That might actually have been a good thing, but was still illegal. Anyone who knows how to do simple newspaper searches can locate the stories in the papers. The arrest occurred (I believe in March or April) back in the 1989-1990 school year, in northern Michigan near Alpena, MI. He was actually arrested in Atlanta, MI. As detailed in this story, is NOT how I handled the situation, and my case was worse FAR WORSE--there has been a kidnapping and violence for fact. But, note the date, pre-Columbine. Columbine changed how America views violence.

Very concerned,

Doc2005

[FPrice]

Gee, how did Skeeter, Elmer and Bill Jordan ever manage to grow up without being arrested?

Most likely with good parenting that taught them manners and right from wrong at an early age. Not to mention responsible gun handling. I doubt any of them made general threats about killing people. At least not like this kid did.

[iapetus]

And yes if I saw a 16 year old drinking or drunk in the picture he should be scooped up. He may not kill tonight, but the photo shows past behavior which does indicate future tendancys. Hello! McFly! Underage drinking is illegal. And to top it off my aunt was killed by a teenage drunk driver while out for a walk with my uncle. Thank you for defending potential murders, because that is what a DUI is.



This is going slightly off topic I know, but what is/are the laws regarding the age at which you can drink alcohol in the US?

Are there federal laws, or is it just a state thing?

And does it matter where the alcohol is consumed? (In the UK, you generally have to be 18+ to drink in public, or to buy alcohol, but it is fine for children to drink at home).

[crazed_ss]

You have to be 21 to drink in America. In a club, bar, or at home.

Back on topic.. It's a good thing they did something with this kid. If he had shot up his school next week, everyone in the media would have been yelling "Why didnt anyone see the warning signs!? We need more gun control laws to make guns inaccesseble to kids!!!!!!!!!!!!" In this case, it shows that the police are actually enforcing gun laws on the books instead of waiting until something happens and then trying to pass even more restrictive laws.

[JerryM]

I got my first gun, a Rem 510 ss .22, when I was 10. My grandmother borrowed the $7.50 it cost, and I and a friend a couple of years older than me, walked the railroad tracks from Queen City, TX to Atlanta, TX. about three miles. I bought the gun at a hardware store, we walked back, I charged a box of .22 shorts at a store where my grandparents had a charge account, and we went shooting.

In a few weeks I was an excellent shot, and had the capability to shoot and kill someone else. BUT, such a thought never entered my mind. We did not shoot others just because they might be bullies and whip us in a fight, or a teacher that might give a bad grade.

It was only justified to shoot someone if they were trying to kill you.

Now it is much different than in the early 40s. There is a constant diet of violence on TV, movies, and games. There is a different attitude toward God and man's responsibilities toward Him. In fact if some could get rid of any mention of God they would. It gives the message that the best way to stop someone you do not like is to "blow him away."

In the late 50s and especially in the 60s there was an attitude that a child did not have to listen to his parents, and it was considered a badge of honor to be a rebel. The professors furthered that attitude. It became a do as you wish and no one has a right to tell you what to do and what not to do.

Parents who had grown up in such a culture thought that it stifled the child's initiative and mental and emotional growth to correct and MAKE the child behave. Society and many PhDs thought it sent the wrong message to spank a child to make him behave.
In fact the message is that there can be some painful consequences if you rebel or disobey. Now they do not seem to know or believe that.

I do not need any studies to tell me what is wrong today. I have seen the evolution of it. I never heard of anyone killing his parents or school mates, or parents killing their children. Today they are without "natural affection." Abortion is a part of that mentality. It is an attitude that I am the center of the universe, and I have a right to do whatever I think will make my life better and without complications others or a baby might impose.

It will get worse before it gets better.
So I support the arrest of that boy, as there is a good liklihood he would kill or injure someone with a gun. When that happens it is too late, and it cannot be undone. His parents are responsible to a large measure, but so is the kid.

Jerry

[TheOtherOne]

ACLU got his suspension suspended:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/7200730/detail.html
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/7302412/detail.html

[O.F.Fascist]

You have to be 21 to drink in America. In a club, bar, or at home.

You are mistaken.

[The Drew]

You have to be 21 to drink in America. In a club, bar, or at home.

Umm... just because there is a picture taken of a kid drinking alcohol, doesn't specifically mean that the act was illegal.

There are plenty of places around the world where someone under 21 can legally drink alcohol. And the prosecution would have to prove that the picture was taken in a place where the act was illegal.

Same goes for the picture of him holding the guns, I would think all it should take is a parent to testify that they were there on the day the picture was taken and was supervising the handling of the firearms. I don't know of any states where it is illegal for a minor to handle a firearm period. Usually if they are being supervised by a parent or guardian everything is Kosher...

[crazed_ss]

You are mistaken.

Am I?
Where is it legal people under 21 to drink in the United States? .. other than a sip of wine at church or something like that. Even in private home, it isnt legal for a parent to let a minor drink alcohol.

IIRC, the states set their own drinking age.. It's 21 in all 50 states so they can get federal highway funds or something like that.

[mp510]

Am I?
Where is it legal people under 21 to drink in the United States? .. other than a sip of wine at church or something like that. Even in private home, it isnt legal for a parent to let a minor drink alcohol.

IIRC, the states set their own drinking age.. It's 21 in all 50 states so they can get federal highway funds or something like that.


It is 21 to purchase alcohol in every one of the 50 states of the union, however some states do not have minimum ages to consume alcoholm, or the minimum age to consume the alcohol is less than 21. Only 31 states require that people be 21 to consume alcohol.

[mp510]

Umm... just because there is a picture taken of a kid drinking alcohol, doesn't specifically mean that the act was illegal.

There are plenty of places around the world where someone under 21 can legally drink alcohol. And the prosecution would have to prove that the picture was taken in a place where the act was illegal.

Same goes for the picture of him holding the guns, I would think all it should take is a parent to testify that they were there on the day the picture was taken and was supervising the handling of the firearms. I don't know of any states where it is illegal for a minor to handle a firearm period. Usually if they are being supervised by a parent or guardian everything is Kosher...
To play devils advocate, you can easily doubt whether the person was ever in the scene that is pictured. It is very easy to make images of people, doing things that they never did in places that they have never been with todays image editing programs. With the right skills, the pictures WILL look 100% genuine.

[1911 guy]

But it's been ten years or more since I went there, La. was 18 years old statewide for drinking age. Yes, it is tied to highway funding, but it is a state issue and La. chose to forego the money and set their age at 18.

[ID_shooting]

"Where is it legal people under 21 to drink in the United States?"

Some places in the Army. Ft Bliss in El Paso has (maybe had, not sure) a policy that any soldier under 21 and out of training status may drink on post. The theory is that if you let them party on base, they won't drive into Mexico and get into trouble.

[HankB]

Umm... just because there is a picture taken of a kid drinking alcohol, doesn't specifically mean that the act was illegal.You can tell from A PICTURE what the contents of a container are? Wow . . . I wasn't aware that you could do chemical analysis from a photograph. I guess I've been under the mistaken assumption that liquor could go into a soft drink container, and soft drinks could go into a liquor container. :rolleyes:

Pictures of people drinking prove NOTHING. At the last wedding I attended - with an open bar - most of the "vodka & tonics" I was pouring down were actually made without the vodka; this gained me a (largely undeserved) reputation as a guy who could really hold his liquor. ;)

[Sistema1927]

Good grief, I sure wish for the good old days.

I kept my guns, unlocked, in my bedroom closet, carried them to school in my trunk or in a gun rack in a pickup, checked out an M14 from the ROTC arms room and also practiced small bore on the 50 ft. indoor range multiple times each week. They even took us to the Army base once each year with the same M14s to fire a familiarization course, so they weren't demilled weapons. (Most of us also had a couple of M14 magazines loaded up with ammo at home, just in case the "godless reds" were to invade and we were called upon to defend our community. I don't think that a one of us ever entertained a thought about shooting up our school, even though the firepower was certainly there.)

Additionally, I participated in several class projects where we did "Old West" drama to include live unloaded weapons as props, and even had whiskey bottles full of ice tea.

On top of that, part of the standard male "uniform" was a 4" Buck folder in a leather sheath on your belt. If a teacher said "Someone let me borrow a knife", you would almost get knocked down getting to the front of the room.

The thing is, that wasn't all that long ago. I graduated from High School in 1974!

Hard to believe that a kid today can be suspended for drawing a picture of a gun, or carrying a tiny Swiss Army knife, or even pointing a finger at another kid and saying "bang". Of course, even this hasn't kept the "bliss ninnies" safe.

[Strings]

>You have to be 21 to drink in America. In a club, bar, or at home<

Ummm... nope. Here in WI, you can drink in a bar or restaurant so long's you're with your parents/guardian (although the establishment CAN refuse to serve you). And there is NOTHING against the law for someone underage to drink at home, so long's they didn't buy the alchohol themselves, and don't leave the premises. Heck... I was making wine at 15-16...

Crazed SS, you REALLY need to learn about the laws before talking about them!

Oh... as for the kid in question? I want to see the original site (don't care about any of the media reports) before I makle a judgement on it...

[crazed_ss]

Wow.. so in other states it would be OK for an adult to purchase alchol for minors and allow them to drink in a private home? That's insane... lol I guess living in CA shields me from the rest of the world.. If I were to buy beer for some underage college kids here, I'd be going to jail. If they get hurt while intoxicated from the beer I bought, I'd be really screwed. Even when I was stationed at Camp Pendleton and 29 Palms, CA.. you had to be 21 to drink on base. We were having a big going away for one of our CWO's and the Company Commander asked the general to authorize people under 21 to drink for a few hours.. the answer was "NO!" :(


Anyway.. about the topic. I find it interesting that everyone seems to be OK with this kid posing with guns and a caption about "Wings o' Lead", yet everyone has a problem with the gangsters posing with guns.

[Vitamin G]

He is obviously immature and not competent to own guns if he he showing them off on a blog.

Such a person is very likely to go over the edge and shoot someone.


Yeah... Umm... I'm gonna go edit my blog now, because I'm likely to go over the edge any time now...
Better take the 10mm myspace group off of MyGroups too...

[Art Eatman]

crazed_ss, the way you teach a kid about alcohol is much like the way you teach a kid about guns. The important thing is to remove the mystique from the whole deal Get away from the psychology of "forbidden fruit".

So, around age 13-ish or thereabouts, let the kid have a half a glass of beer or wine with the evening meal. If and only if he's interested, of course. You explain the general rules and the laws and all that, but not all in one swell foop.

My mother was pretty smart. She commented on how stupid it looked for a kid to be drunk in public. Well, who wants to look stupid? Further, she said that if I ever had too much to drink, come home! Home Is Safer!

The result was that I had little interest in drinking until my late teens, and I went into the Army at age 19...

Funny how age is such a big deal here in the U.S., but in the countries where age isn't particularly a concern, there is much less of a problem with kids and booze. I think of the countries in which I've noticed: Korea, Hong Kong, Japan, Philippines, France, Germany, Costa Rica, Mexico...

:), Art

[Taurus 617 CCW]

This is very similar to a case here in Oregon where a kid was suspended from all afternoon activities because his coach saw a picture of him drinking alcohol on an internet site. I can see how he is just voicing his opinion but one thing kids have to keep in mind is that the internet is a public place and people do see what goes on. I believe that people should be held accountable for their actions, regardless of their age (small children excluded). I can understand the school being paranoid about another school shooting, I would be too but I think they are taking it a little too far. Like many have said, the parents need to keep a closer eye on what goes on in the house. There's nothing wrong with gun ownership at any age but responsibility is a requiremet for that ownership.

[Strings]

>Wow.. so in other states it would be OK for an adult to purchase alchol for minors and allow them to drink in a private home?<

that gets into something of a grey area, actually. If you purchase beer for a group of kids who want to have a party, there'd be trouble (assuming the police found out). however, it was never any big deal for my parents to buy a sixpack for myself and my best friend, if we were going to be hanging out at my home that night. And I ALWAYS had a bottle of brandy in my room: went through a fifth in 2-3 months...

[TrybalRage]

In this case, it shows that the police are actually enforcing gun laws on the books

Somewhere else was posted colorado state law, it is not illegal for someone under the age of 18 to posess a handgun on private property with consent of parent/guardian.

I see alot of people making comments about things this kid wrote on his site, I tell you what - at that age the things I said and wrote and would have written in an online blog had that been available at the time would have sent you running for the hills. Kids say lots of things. Not all of them are the smartest things. Sometimes they say those things not realizing how serious others will take them. Sometimes its just an outlet for frustration.

The things he was quoted as saying did not alarm me a bit. The part about gunpoint against a bag of peas actually made me chuckle. This is just a kid talking tough, trying to sound cool.

The school overstepped its boundaries, big time on this one. If they wanted to contact the parents first, fine. But to jump to police and suspension for something this kid was doing off school property and by their own admission no direct threats, I hope they get the pants sued off them.

They probably ruined this kids life.

Just because they found something 'disturbing'. Ech. Go screw.

[Strings]

Oh... everyone saying "he shouldn't be allowed to be round guns": you get to make the decision as to who can today. Ted Kennedy get's to tomorrow, DiFi the day after, Hillary on Monday...

Do we REALLY want to open that can of worms?

[KriegHund]

Heck, if he wasnt anti-authority before ill bet 90-1 odds he is now.

[beerslurpy]

Wow.. so in other states it would be OK for an adult to purchase alchol for minors and allow them to drink in a private home? That's insane... lol I guess living in CA shields me from the rest of the world.. If I were to buy beer for some underage college kids here, I'd be going to jail. If they get hurt while intoxicated from the beer I bought, I'd be really screwed. Even when I was stationed at Camp Pendleton and 29 Palms, CA.. you had to be 21 to drink on base. We were having a big going away for one of our CWO's and the Company Commander asked the general to authorize people under 21 to drink for a few hours.. the answer was "NO!"


Anyway.. about the topic. I find it interesting that everyone seems to be OK with this kid posing with guns and a caption about "Wings o' Lead", yet everyone has a problem with the gangsters posing with guns.

California is causing more harm than good in its misguided attempts to reshape humanity through force of law. Its values are not necessarily the best, its approach is not necessarily the most effective and it is arguable they have no right to decide on our behalf in the first place.

Parents purchase alcohol for their children all the time back in the real world. Teaching responsible moderate consumption of alcohol is healthy and normal. Better they learn good drinking habits from you than learn it the hard way with a beer funnel and a long set of hangovers. These laws thus contribute to binge drinking and other irresponsible adult behavior.

Children can be instructed in the use of firearms without endangering anyone. It has been going on for centuries in this country. People (including children) do not become bloodthirsty killers when exposed to a firearm. Children raised with guns will know how to use them safely as adults. Again, California thinks it knows best and insists that this isnt so, but reality conspires against them again. These laws encourage irresponsible use of firearms by filling society with people who are largely ignorant of firearms safety and afraid of learning.

[Meplat]

While I am a strong proponent of gun rights, I agree that that teen should be apprehended. He is obviously immature and not competent to own guns if he he showing them off on a blog.

Does that mean you are in favor of "apprehending" those in these forums who are obviously "immature and not competent enough to own guns" because they post pictures of THEIR weapons here?

[gunsmith]

While I am a strong proponent of gun rights, I agree that that teen should be apprehended. He is obviously immature and not competent to own guns if he he showing them off on a blog.


I've got my guns on my myspace profile too.

[JohnBT]

"According to the Canyon Courier newspaper, one of the written entries from the student on the Web site said: "People suck and deserve to die.""

If he was hoping to attract a little attention I'd say he succeeded.

John

[KriegHund]

Ide say a good 60% of blog-posters are 'emo' kids who have "People suck and deserve to die." written at the beggining, middle, and end of every post, and then elaborate on it.

And then they talk about their new 125$ pair of shoes and spending 300$ on conert tickets and 'hot topic'.

Annoying buggers....

[JohnBT]

60% huh? I had to look up emo.

Sounds like another "Let's all dress alike and follow each other around" crowd.

In any event, posing with guns and saying people deserve to die is asking for trouble.

There's obviously a reason adults used to say that children should be seen and not heard.

John

[gunsmith]

EMO? I don't think so
http://www.myspace.com/bugtussel

http://www.myspace.com/scionboy

http://www.myspace.com/rightthoughts

http://www.myspace.com/hkuspbell

[JohnBT]

bugtussel? Love the pic of Santa. :evil:

[KriegHund]

EMO? I don't think so

I occasioanly browse livejournal (another blog service) and would say that 60% (of active posters, not users who make a post once a year) is a fair estimate.

Myspace could be different but i doubt it is too much so.

[Drizzt]

Boy who posed with guns convicted
Sue Lindsay, Rocky Mountain News
April 4, 2006

An Evergreen high school student who posted Internet photos of himself posing with guns was convicted Tuesday on a charge of possession of a handgun by a juvenile.

The conviction came despite his parents' testimony that they gave him permission to handle guns in their home without their supervision.

Colorado law prohibits possession of a handgun by a juvenile, but permits parents to give them permission to possess guns in their homes, even without supervision.

"This is a very difficult case," defense attorney Barrett Weisz said in his closing argument after a trial that began Friday.

"We have pictures that raise images of the Columbine massacre. But if we set the specter of Columbine aside," he argued, the boy should be acquitted and sent home.

The photos were posted on the popular teen web site myspace.com. The photos showed him posing with a number of rifles and three handguns — a .45 caliber pistol, and .22 and .357 revolvers.

The 16-year-old boy, who has been held in detention since his arrest in February, will be sentenced June 1. He was acquitted on two additional charges of handgun possession.

The judge set a $5,000 bond, but ordered that the boy must be evaluated and a safety plan drawn up before he can be released.

The boy's parents testified that they were upset and disappointed with their son when they discovered the photos, but said he had permission to handle the weapons.

"I was not pleased and told him to take (the photos) down," his father testified. "I told him, 'what were you thinking when you took these pictures?' I was upset."

The father, a gun collector and enthusiast who is an airline pilot and retired Air Force pilot, said he gave the boy and his brother extensive training in the safe handling of weapons.

He said he gave his sons permission to handle the guns in the home even when he wasn't there, and the boys had access to keys to trigger locks.

"It was due to their experience and my trust in them" to safely handle the weapons, he said. They often cleaned the guns after they had gone shooting and he was out of town for his job, he said. They also built guns from kits, he said.

But Jefferson County District Judge Brian Boatright said that permission had limits.

"That doesn't mean juveniles could run around the house and do whatever he wanted with the gun," Boatright said, noting that the father testified that the boys were not allowed to load or fire the weapons unless he was present.

Boatright acquitted the boy on two charges in which he posed with the handguns but did not have his finger on the trigger. One of the charges stemmed from a photo entitled "angel of death" in which he posed on the floor with guns surrounding his body.

He also stated in the myspace.com posting that people "deserve to die."

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4595681,00.html

[Creeping Incrementalism]

An Evergreen high school student who posted Internet photos of himself posing with guns was convicted Tuesday on a charge of possession of a handgun by a juvenile.

The conviction came despite his parents' testimony that they gave him permission to handle guns in their home without their supervision.

Colorado law prohibits possession of a handgun by a juvenile, but permits parents to give them permission to possess guns in their homes, even without supervision.

I don't understand how he broke the law, then.

Anyway, this is just astounding. Someone under 18 can't even touch a handgun if his parents aren't in the house?

[Czar]

...And people wonder why I vote out judges as a matter of principle. Their job is to make sure the laws are being followed, not interpreted along the way. When in doubt, interpret literally. Too bad (or maybe a good thing) I only work in Jefferson County, rather than vote there.


Kid acting stupid - maybe, but conviction?!?!?! YGTBFKM... I can't imagine a jury from Jefferson County (or anywhere else on the West/South end of the metro area) going 12-0 against on this thing.

...then again, I’m preaching to the choir

[Barbara]

Unbelievable. What's even scarier is some of the posts here.

[Strings]

I'm with Barbara: some of y'all REALLY need to think about what you're espousing...

[Art Eatman]

Reading through this thread brought this thought to mind:

"People are too weird for me to act human in public."

So the kid was stupid in front of a camera and put it on the Internet. did anybody investigate to see if he had any local reputation for anti-social behavior when he was away from home? Had he any history of public stoopid?

If something is not against the law, how can somebody be guilty of a crime?

I hope the parents can afford to move out of Stoopidville, to someplace where a modicum of sanity might prevail...

Art

[Autolycus]

Any updates?

[tulsamal]

I thought this was just as amazing:


The 16-year-old boy, who has been held in detention since his arrest in February, will be sentenced June 1. He was acquitted on two additional charges of handgun possession.

Why in the world would a 16 year old be in detention since FEB?! While they tried to decide if he even broke any laws?!?!

As somebody said way back there, if this kid wasn't "anti-authority" before this, he will be now!

None of this makes any sense unless somebody has an agenda against that boy or his family.

Gregg

[Foxtrot427]

while thekid probably isnt too bright, I dont see how what he did was against the law. Since when is it illegal for someone under 21 to be next to a handgun?

[Sistema1927]

Unbelievable. What's even scarier is some of the posts here.

Isn't that the truth.

I am sure glad that I am not a teenager today. A radical freedom lover like me would spend the rest of his life in jail! Lord knows that I spent most of my "wasted youth" using firearms without "adequate" adult supervison.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

None of this makes any sense unless somebody has an agenda against that boy or his family.How about an agenda against guns?

Nah, nobody out there has an agenda against guns.

It's a shame this kid had to get caught up in the middle of things.