Cimarron Firearms Co.


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eagle24
February 25, 2006, 10:46 AM
I don't see a lot of talk about the Cimarron percussion revolvers on here. What is the scoop on them? Good, Bad, Priced too high? Just wondering why there isn't much said about them.

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Father Knows Best
February 25, 2006, 12:29 PM
Cimarron is just a distributor. Their percussion guns are made by Uberti or Pietta, just like everyone else's. Cimarron tends to be a little higher priced than other distributors, but their service is excellent.

TexasRifleman
February 25, 2006, 12:41 PM
Well, Cimarron is a bit more than a distributor.

On some models they do the final assembly and, what I like, the wood finishing.

I buy Cimarron exclusively and the woodwork has always been much nicer than the standard Uberti.

My SAA especially, although not a Blackpowder, is one of the best looking guns I own. They applied the charcoal bluing and it's just beautiful and the finish on the wood is fantastic.

I also handled a Uberti 1860 Old Army side by side with the Cimarron model of the same. The final fit, finish, and wood were noticably better on the Cimarron and I bought their model even though it was a bit higher priced.

Father Knows Best
February 25, 2006, 02:27 PM
I hear that claim from Cimarron fans all the time -- that Cimarron's specifications are tighter, or that they do final fitting and finishing. That may be true on some products, but it isn't for the vast majority of them. I have handled literally hundreds of Italian replica products, and currently own almost a dozen. Two in my current collection have the Cimarron name on them: an 1866 44-40 short rifle and a "John Bodine" rolling block target rifle. Neither are appreciably better than the almost identical and often cheaper offerings from Taylor's, Navy Arms and others. The rolling block has decent wood, but wood to metal fit is poor and the trigger is rough. The 1866 has the typically poor Italian wood with its hideous red laquer finish.

Cimarron may put some extra effort and finishing touches into some of its products, but that's certainly not the case for all of them.

Old Fuff
February 25, 2006, 06:50 PM
Replica percussion revolvers come in all sorts of flavors - good, bad and indifferent - sometimes from the same maker. The various grades are then marked with the name of the company that imports and sells them. Thus a buyer can be confused by what appears to be a wide disparity in price for the same product, while in truth they aren't all created equal.

In addition, some of the larger companies have premium lines, which for a few dollars more have better fit and finish, hand-tuned actions, and perhaps better wood or custom grips.

All of this can be justified to a point because some people buy guns to shoot, while others are only interested in displaying them.

Cimarron Firearms products are aimed in general toward shooters, and they're quality reflects this. The same can be said about the sites listed below. Some of them are running sales on selected cap & ball six-shooters that offer attractive prices, and in most places adults can buy them directly over the Internet because they are not classified as firearms.

www.cimarron.firearms.com

www.texasjacks.com (reseller owned by Cimarron).

www.emf-company.com

www.dixiegunworks.com

www.navyarms.com

mec
February 25, 2006, 09:31 PM
Texas Jack(and Cimarron) had a lot to do with upping the quality of the replicas. Their catalogue features a lot of variations, finish options and engraving not available elsewhere. Also, they keep a comprehensive stock of parts for all the uberti replicas the sell. Whatever they're doing, I want to encourage them to keep it up.

Old Fuff
February 25, 2006, 10:31 PM
Texas Jack is Cimarron - one and the same, but Cimarron Firearms uses the Texas Jacks website to sell unregulated cap & ball guns and accessories over the Internet. Metallic cartridge arms are sold to dealers, either directly through the trade, or their own website. They also sell some cap & ball revolvers that aren't listed on the Texas Jacks side of the operation. A potential buyer should look at both sites, and on the Texas Jacks site check for special sale prices on some models.

The Old Fuff's bloodshot eyeballs fastened on an interesting 1861 Navy that he probably shouldn't have noticed... :uhoh:

BP Tess
February 26, 2006, 11:24 AM
Okay...question from a newbe...Cimarron or Uberti, which in your opinion has better quality? Less tuning, overall smoothness of operation, etc. I recently purchased a 58 army .44 cal from cabelas. I'm very pleased with it and I use it alot. I wanted to make sure I liked the Darkside before I made any more purchases. Maybe there are others you could recommend. Thinking of another 58 in .36 cal, or a 51 in .44cal. Any input would be appreciated. :D Teresa

BP Tess
February 26, 2006, 11:31 AM
Oops, just read that Cimarron is a distrubitor and not a brand. Right? So Uberti is considered a better make than Pietta. These are the only 2 brands, just sold by different companies...:confused: Teresa

mec
February 26, 2006, 11:34 AM
My notion is that the Uberti's from the last several years- since the company that owns Beretta bought them are of about the same quality regardless of source. There are usually some minor issues to take care of but they are usually amenable to home fixes. A couple of my colt types have had loose loading lever detents- the stud under the end of the barrel that holds the spring loaded deal in the end of the lever. I've used a hard punch on the edge of the dovetail to tighten this. Also, several of them have tended to shed the barrel pegs at the bottom front of the frame. again, tightening these with a punch or the edge of a screw driver blade has worked fine.

BP Tess
February 26, 2006, 11:49 AM
Thanks...a few $$ difference is worth it for the better quality in the long run. BTW Mec, I've been enjoying your book. Mike suggested it to me early on for a reference and it's wonderful. As I read it aloud sometimes as my 4 yr old son enjoys this although probably not understanding much!:D ! It has helped me with my understanding on these fine weapons. Teresa

mec
February 26, 2006, 12:04 PM
The Uberti's have been more satisfactory than Pietta up until very recently. It appears that the rumored improvement in Pietta quality is factual given the experiences of Beartracker and others. I know that Pietta can produce very fine guns when motivated as the LeMat's I've had have been well finished, accurate and functional (within the limits of the original design) and their copy of the Smith Carbine is excellent.

Glad you are enjoying the book. Some of the book sellers have reader- age recommendations. Possibly, the experiences with your 4 year old will motivate them to revise them downward.

Old Fuff
February 26, 2006, 12:12 PM
My opinions are subjective, but based on experience, including some with 19th century original revolvers.

I think that the current crop of replicas are in general, the best we’ve seen so far. Both of the principal makers in Italy ( Uberti and Pietta) seem determine to improve their products, and all of that is to our benefit. They are also increasing the number of models, or variations of existing ones.

Personally I prefer Pietta’s rendition of the Remington New Model Army, particularly as offered by EMF in their Hartford Line. On the other hand Uberti makes the more perfect Colt reproductions.

A dealer that offers parts and service for what they sell is more valuable then one who doesn’t, and I avoid any that don’t seem to know you after you buy something and have a problem. My policy here is, “one strike and you’re out.”

The highest quality cap & ball revolvers cost less then similar cartridge arms from the same makers (here I’m thinking about Colt S.A.A. clones) or modern guns from S&W, Ruger, Taurus, etc. and they are much cheaper to shoot so far as ammunition components are concerned. They are harder to clean up afterwards, but not so much so that it offsets they’re other advantages for a shooter on a limited budget. Hopefully there numbers will grow… :D

mec
February 26, 2006, 12:25 PM
Once again, I find myself agreeing with every point Old Fuff makes.
During the time of the Colt reissues, Allen Firearms (now bought out by Cimarron) was importing some Ubertis that had true color case hardening on the frame which made them, like the Colts- very pretty.

I do think though that the current production is the best in terms of construction and quality of parts.

Old Fuff
February 26, 2006, 12:52 PM
I too would like to see some "bone & charcoal" case hardening - and note that Cimarron offers it as an option on some of they're Colt S.A.A. clones.

It would appear that there is no reason it couldn't be done on Colt C&B reproductions. I believe that at one time U.S. Fire Arms Mfg. Co. offered a line of Colt-clone percussion revolvers with bone & charcoal hardening, but these are apparently not available now. Those that were sold under Colt's own name in the past were also hardened and colored in this manner.

Given the way things are going we will likely see this again... :D

Father Knows Best
February 26, 2006, 06:14 PM
Personally I prefer Pietta’s rendition of the Remington New Model Army, particularly as offered by EMF in their Hartford Line.

Why? I've been thinking of picking up a NMA replica. What is it about the Pietta (and especially the EMF Hartford version) that you like better than the alternatives?

mec
February 26, 2006, 08:06 PM
I just got back from a local gunshow. One of the exhibitors was
http://www.muleheadsguns.com/
who had a table full of Uberti-boxed percussion and cartridge revolvers from Cimarron Arms. They appear to be standard Uberti in the way of quality and appearance.

Old Fuff
February 27, 2006, 08:49 PM
Father knows best:

I have a projected project coming up that involves a replica Remington “New Army.” In making a decision as to which one, the answer lies in the old saying, “the devil is in the details.” Some of the details are superfluous, but important to me, while others are much more consequential.

I was first attracted to EMF’s Hartford model (made by Pietta) because of very nice cosmetics and excellent overall fit and finish. In addition I noticed that the bullet rammer only extended a short distance in front of the frame, as is the way most original Remington’s were made. The Uberti version isn’t correct in this detail, and most wouldn’t think it was important - and probably it isn’t. But I believe these little things should be done right. The rammer by the way is machined to fit round balls (which most people shoot) rather then pointed bullets (which most shooters don’t use).

What was more important was the lockwork timing, which was smooth and dead on the way it should be. The Remington doesn’t have a leade going into the cylinder notches, so it is important that the bolt be released just short of the notch to avoid scaring the cylinder, and this is exactly what happens. The lock-up itself is rock solid. Once cocked, the hammer drops to engage the trigger at full-cock, but only by a tiny amount. The trigger pull is a bit heavy (mostly caused by the stiff hammer spring common to percussion revolvers) but crisp. I had no complaints with it.

The grips are made from typical Italian walnut, but well finished and brown-not red. A little darker stain and they will be fine.

Much to my surprise, the cylinder/barrel gap gauged out at a very satisfactory .007” with only slight cylinder end-shake. I consider this to be excellent in a black powder arm where some looseness is necessary to accommodate fouling.

I haven’t slugged the barrel, but the chambers run around .444 to .446 inches. Depending on what the bore size turns out to be, I may have to do a little work here on chamber diameter, but not much.

Proof of the pudding will of course be determined by how well it shoots, “out of the box” to start with. That’s something I hope to get to soon.

Could there be better ones? Sure. But if so I didn’t happen to come across them. As it was I was satisfied with what I found. Now we’ll have to see if my initial opinion is confirmed.

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