[Drjones]

Hi all.

This was sent to my by one of my liberal friends.

I thoroughly question its accuracy and truthfullness, of course, but would like your help in dissecting it.

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/bushnonazi.html

:rolleyes:

Thanks

[KMKeller]

I see tons of allegations and allusions, but no factual reference or research materials to back any of it up. And how much credence can you lend to an organization that proclaims of Janeane Garofalo, "She's a Talented Media Heroine of the first magnitude, and they should be making statues of HER and building shrines"...:barf:

[FPrice]

Just a little bit too slick and not nearly enough hard information other than smears, innuendo, and character assassination to make me believe it for a moment. But sadly I am sure that there are those who will see this and assume that because it "looks" true (and the fact that it's on the internet so it MUST be true) and will believe it.

Probably some truth to the "charge" that the Bush's, amongst others, invested in Germany during the post-WWI reconstruction period but to jump from this to their being supporters of Hitler requires a leap of faith available only to liberals and those with an irrational hatred of the rich.

[Blackhawk]

You need to be more selective in choosing your friends.

"Don't answer a fool in his folly" is what I'd apply to this.

[dev_null]

Sounds more like Joseph Kennedy, actually.

-0-

[No4Mk1]

Send your "friend" here:

http://www.thethresher.com/indiscreet.html

[LawDog]

Boy, that flash movie comparing George W. Bush to Adolf Hitler will give you a headache.

Dissecting it? When my two-year-old niece has a temper tantrum, her parents don't dissect it, they ignore it or send her to bed. Trying to talk to the little squab does nothing more than fuel her to further histrionics.

And, near as I can tell, this is some far-left liberals having a screaming, howling, kicking, food-slinging temper tantrum.

That is, they're having a tantrum whenever they're not busy singing "Kumbaya" and pining for the Grand Old Days of the Clinton Presidency.

I'm here to tell you, folks, everyting they whine about W. doing, if Clinton had done the same thing there wouldn't be a peep out of them.

Clinton/Somalia = Good
Clinton/Kosovo = Good
Clinton/Aspirin factories = Good
Bush/Iraq = Bad

LawDog

[Mike Irwin]

A simple case of attempting to prove guilt by simple association without establishing whether or not Prescott Bush knew that the Nazis were what they were later proven to be.

In the cold light of history we can also say definitively that King George and Queen Mary of England were actually pro-Nazi/Hitler in the early to mid-1930s, as were MANY in Britain, the reason being that they saw a politically unified and stable Germany as a potent foil against the Soviet Union.

I looked on the site, but I couldn't find anything about Robert Byrd, good Democrat that he is, having been a member of that gentleman's group, the Ku Klux Klan.

Oh wait, he apologized. That's OK.


It also doesn't appear to have any "information" on Joseph Kennedy, as Ambassador to Britain, climbing into Hitler's pocket, or supporting a Nazi agenda when meeting with Franklin Roosevelt.

Funny thing about it is that both Prescott Bush and Joseph Kennedy had sons who served with distinction in the US military in World War II...

[pax]

Man, I'd sure hate to have to answer for some of the racist and irrational things my grandpa believed.

pax

The best blood will at some time get into a fool or a mosquito. -- Austin O'Malley

[nulnvoid]

Funny, wasn’t it Bill Clinton who embraced the likes of China, Palestine, and North Korea? It has always been a practice of the left to accuse others to hide there own guilt. When there “peace through appeasement” plans collapse, they are quick to hire the likes of Michel Moore to play the blame game. I am always frustrated at the lefts attempt to blame America first while they give dictators and terrorists a pass. I would point out to the left that the Israeli Mossad placed a high level agent in the Whitehouse during the Clinton administration. Sounds like they might have a better idea about exposing the Nazi connection than the left.

B

[Bonker]

Maybe, but no one knew the extent of th evil of the Nazis in the early days.
IBM, Ford Motor Company, and a horde of others helped them before we knew better.
Amercia sent tons of Jews back to Germany (and to their deaths) who had escaped before we knew better.
I won't judge too hashly anyone who helped them before 1939ish. But after that they get no quarter.

[agricola]

actually IBM continued to deal with Hitler through its German and other European subsidiaries during the Second World War, and made strenuous efforts to cover-up its guilt in the immediate aftermath.

check out edwin black's excellent book on the companies involvement for the whole story.

[DonP]

I've run across these guys before. They are the cultural heroes of the Democrapic Underground. They feel that all the media is run by large multinational conservative corporations that only hire conservative reporters. You know Neo Cons like Ted Turner and right wing reporters like Dan Rather and Peter Jennings. Yup, that's what they claim to believe.

They have a big backing by the far left types, including the International World Workers Party (The "Wobblies" to my Grandpa!).

Their goal is to provide invented statistics or trails of "evidence" to support far left wing idealogues. They showed up on ABC with Koppel one night and even he couldn't stand their outright lies.

As previously noted, one of the big supporters and investors in Post WWI Germany was the Kennedy family. Father Joe kept telling FDR that Hitler was a reasonable man and could be worked with. His counsel was one of the reasons we turned away boatloads of Jewish refugees in 1939 and 1940 and sent them back to the camps to die. Mary Jo is not the first blood on their hands by a long shot.

If there is a villain in this, it's probably the Kennedy family and the fortune they made off everything from rumrunning to German arms investments.

The good news is that they represent one of many splinter groups that are tearing apart the Democratic party for the most part. They seem to be competing for who can lean out of the left window the farthest. Hopefully Pelosi and her 7 dwarfs (Dem Pres. candidates) will all fall out at the same time.

Don P.

[Lebe]

No4

The article in "The Thresher" goes to great lengths to discredit any association between the Bush family and Germany during the war years in the first several paragraphs,... going so far as to invoke the much overused and abused "conspiracy" word. Yet futher on down, the article concedes this:
__________________________________________________
"Trading With Enemies
One could read through the bulk of mainstream Bush family biographies and find no mention of a significant 1942 event: That year the U.S. federal government, under the auspices of the office of the U.S Alien Property Custodian. seized the assets of the Union Banking Corporation, a subsidiary of Brown Brothers Harriman, under authority of the "Trading with the Enemy Act." Prescott Bush served on the board."

And this:

"While the evidence amassed by Tarpley and Chaitkin in no way directly implicates Prescott Bush or Brown Brothers Harriman as Nazi supporters, a strong case is made for their complicity in aiding and abetting the Nazi cause for profit long after the nature of the Nazi regime became clear to any informed observer, and even after the US declaration of war against Germany."
___________________________________________________
I have to confess, I was totally unaware of any of these activities. (I have no interest in being a Bush family historian beyond the last three generations),.. but it seems as if Prescott Bush continued to reap the benifits of a financial association with Nazi Germany long after the US government concluded that such affiliations "wouldn't be prudent".

Does that make him a Nazi sympathizer? It's hard to say,... possibly not,... but it does demonstrate that he wasn't overly concerned with the source of the money which was landing in his pocket.

The Bush family isn't unique in this regard, as far as politicians and tycoons go,... but it certainly shows that they're far from being bastions of virtue. In other words,.. as I said in another post,... Dubya is just the latest in a long line of elitist SOB's who have inhabited the White House.

[Leatherneck]

They are the cultural heroes of the Democrapic Underground. You mean that spineless bunch of slimies who call Clinton "Big Dog"? :barf: :barf:

TC
TFL Survivor

[chaim]

Unfortunately, it is true that Prescott Bush (the former president's father and current president's grandfather) was a Nazi sympathizer along with Bert Walker (Prescott's father-in-law, and the former president's grandfather) and companies they owned and controlled helped finance the Nazis and worse (one company was in partnership with a German company that helped the Nazis try to smuggle spies to the US and money to try to gain influence in Washington). Most of their assets were seized by the government at the start of WWII and they only stayed out of jail by using their skills and ties to spy for the US during the war.

Many of the website's facts are in fact correct (actually more mild than much of the truth) but their conclusions are far from the truth.

The Bush family of the time has a lot in common with the Kennedy family of the time. The elder Bush and Kennedy patriarch were Nazi sympathizers who used their influence before the war to try to further Nazi causes in the US, they invested heavily in Nazi Germany, they helped the Nazi war machine (one of the companies the Bushes had a lot of money in was involved in Nazi espionage and another was a major player in building the concentration camps), both were involved in laudering Nazi money here in the US as well as abroad and both tried to downplay their Nazi ties during the war while continuing to keep up their ties and actually make money from and give support (financial and business support anyway) to the Nazis. None of this info is particularly hard to find. One very well researched (and well documented- they use reputable sources for just about everything, not undocumented "our sources say") book that has much of this info is John Loftus' and Mark Aarons' book "The Secret War Against the Jews".

Those who are willing to see the ties but say in either Joseph Kennedy's or Prescott Bush's defense "they didn't know what they Nazis were about" are kidding themselves- these were educated and intelligent men. In "Mein Kampf" Hitler was very up front about his plans.

Anyone who tried to believe that it was only exaggeration only had to look around to see what the Nazis were doing.

I was going to list some of the more visable things the Nazis did in the 30's but this was getting long, here are some links to online timelines (you'll notice that many key parts of the Holocaust started as early as 1933, accellerating greatly after the Berlin Olmypics, also pay attention to 1939-Dec 1941, it gets worse after the war starts and we didn't get in until Dec 1941 so many US businessmen, including Prescott Bush, Bert Walker and Joseph Kennedy were still heavily and publically tied to the Nazis until then and little or none of this was hidden):

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/timeline.html

http://www.remember.org/educate/mtimeline.html

http://www.neveragain.org/time.htm

http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/timeline/TEXTLINE.HTM

http://www.yad-vashem.org.il/about_holocaust/index_about_holocaust.html From this link you will have to click on "chronology" yourself. I saved the best one for last, this is Yad-Vashem, the Holocaust memorial authority in Israel that houses many institutions to study the Holocaust, recognize the heros, and memorialize the victims.

The Bush/Walker and Kennedy families also have a lot in common in that the next generation was far better than their fathers. Both JFK and George H.W. Bush joined the military at least partially to try to salvage the family names. However, both were also genuinely ashamed of their fathers' actions and served out of patriotism and quite galliantly as well. The former president certainly didn't harbor his father's Nazi leanings and probably didn't even harbor his anti-semitism, in fact when he was at Yale he spoke out against admission policies that made it difficult for Jews and Blacks to attend.

[JohnBT]

Sent to you by one of your liberal friends, huh?

I have some liberal acquaintances, but no liberal friends. I have crazy friends, hippie friends, commune friends and slacker friends - but no liberal ones.

Oh, none of the information about the Bush family is really new news. It's well known and in fact many famous Americans fall in the same category.

How about:

Lindberg accepted (1938) a decoration from Adolf Hitler and praised the German air force as superior to that of any other European country. On his return (1939) to the U.S., Lindbergh toured the country and made a series of antiwar speeches. He was criticized as being pro-German and was forced to resign his commission in the air corps reserve and his membership in the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics.

John

[CMichael]

Not one of the accusations are backed up.

[Selfdfenz]

If Susan Saranwrap and her boyfriend Tim Robbins say Bush is a bad egg he must be, right? And Jeannine and Kevin Kostner and those other people you see on TV all the time.

I mean..people wouldn't say something that was wrong or false or incorrectly reflected on another in a negative way unless they were really, really sure they were right would they? Susan and Tim are too nice a looking couple to do such a thing....and I bet this arti was written by a nice looking, well dressed person or people.

What's not to trust about TV or the Internet for goodness sake?

S-:p

[Mike Irwin]

John,

"How about... Lindberg..."

Yep. Advised avoiding war with Germany at all costs.

When war became a fact, Lindberg provided exemplary advice and support to the military.

[No4Mk1]

Lebe,

I am not a Bush family defender, nor historian. I simply get sick and tired of people (on both sides) taking snipets of history and trying to form them into a grand conspiracy where an elite group of "illuminati" or whatever are controlling the planet, or trying to clone Hitler, or some such....

Do people do dumb and perhaps even evil things for money? Go figure....

I would bet if you dig into pretty much any wealthy family in America (or the rest of the world for that matter) that you would find some underhanded dealings along the way.

Does that mean that it is a grand conspiracy to take over the world? I doubt it.

And while we are at it, if money was all it took to get into the oval office, then why have the Rockefellers and Forbes of the world had such trouble?

There legitimately are very wealthy and very powerful forces in the world, but they are on all sides of the political debate and for the most part I think they keep each other in check.

I'm not trying to be combative, just want to get across the point that some questionable dealings half a century ago do not a Nazi make....

That's enough for today.

[JohnBT]

Mike,

There is probably a lot more to all of these stories than we'll ever know.

Here is one short version on Lindberg...note that when he volunteered they turned him down. Then he fought anyway...against the Japanese.

"He also accepted the German Medal of Honor for his NY-Paris flight. An isolationist in the coming European war, he was quickly branded as "Nazi loving." However, when Pearl Harbor was bombed, bringing the United States into World War II, he was quick to volunteer for military service, which was refused due to his image. As a civilian volunteer employee, he went to the Pacific, where he flew combat missions without the knowledge of the brass, and actually shot down a Japanese plane. He logged over 50 missions against the Japanese. When his war record was finally made public, he was promoted to Brigadier General in the Air Force Reserve."

[ahadams]

what DonP said. only less politely - tell you friend to find a credible source, and no he doesn't get to define credible - it has to be credible to *you*. most of them can't stand it when you do that...

[CZ-75]

Does his possible support for the new AWB renewal and his old man's support for the original count as aiding the Nazis? ;)