Gov't looks for "Gun Melting" super spray


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depicts
March 4, 2006, 10:55 AM
I just saw this on the Military.com website. I thought it was pretty interesting...that the Military is looking for a way to destroy huge arms caches with a non reversable instant spray.

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002213.html

Almost everywhere they go in Iraq, American soldiers find stacks of explosives and guns. According to one 2004 survey, at least 7 million small arms -- including AK-47 rifles, rocket launchers and mortar tubes, and more sophisticated arms like ground-to-air missiles -- have fallen into the hands of Iraqi civilians since "Mission Accomplished" in 2003.

U.S. troops would like to get rid of all of those weapons, as they find them. "However, the extremely large number of both weapons and storage sites has rendered global securing and destruction of caches nearly impossible," notes Darpa, the Pentagon's way-out research arm.

What the agency want to see instead: a non-toxic spray that can "penetrate rapidly into the [weapon's] active firing and/or actuation mechanisms and render them instantly and permanently inoperable."

The formulation will produce an accelerated corrosion (or other) reaction over a longer period of time (a few months or less), perhaps using the weapon material itself as a metallic catalyst, to destroy the weapon internal structure. The formulation must be effective in small quantities (i.e., a few grams per weapon), safe to use, stable over the range of operational temperature/humidity conditions, have a long shelf-life, be capable of large-area dissemination, and produce a non-toxic residue after the weapon is destroyed...

[The spray] must not be reversed by simple chemical, thermal, or other means. Such a chemical system has the potential to enable the systematic and effective removal of small arms from the battlespace.

March 3, 2006 01:59 PM | Ammo and Munitions

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kjeff50cal
March 4, 2006, 11:03 AM
cosmoline??? :evil:

kjeff50cal

1911Tuner
March 4, 2006, 11:04 AM
Willy Peter comes to mind...

Pork Fat
March 4, 2006, 11:12 AM
The coffee we have at work-ugh.

Manedwolf
March 4, 2006, 11:54 AM
And of course, the enemy will NEVER get hold of the formula, make their own, and break our $$$$ tanks, helicopters and support equipment with it...

That sounds like the ideal tool for a guerilla insurgency to use to wreak havoc on an invading, superior force, NOT something a "superpower" needs.

blackhawk2000
March 4, 2006, 12:17 PM
Why don't they get a civilian contractor over their, have them demill them, and then ship them to companies like Century. The whole process should pay for itself if done properly. Then AK prices should drop here in the Stateshttp://thehighroad.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

erik the bold
March 4, 2006, 12:27 PM
Wouldn't a nice salt water bath or two do about the same?

Or, as an alternative, send 'em all to Rouge Steel. It could be your next F150 :uhoh:

Thain
March 4, 2006, 01:03 PM
Load them all up in crates, but them on a cargo ship, bring them to port in Detroit and start selling them through the Civillian Marksmanship Program. :D

The Iraqi rebellion wouldn't have them anymore, and they'd be in the hands of law-abiding Yankees! Win/Win!

One of Many
March 4, 2006, 01:37 PM
Does the chemical warfare restriction apply to the use of hydroflouric acid as a metal cleaner; this stuff is used as an etching solution - but it is hazardous to human touch and by inhalation. If the weapons were sprayed with this, and signs posted all around the area that toxic substances were applied to the weapons, would that meet requirements of treaties?

Anyone that handled the weapons without measures being taken to remove the hydroflouric acid would suffer severe burns and pain, with possible fatality; assuming only the terrorists would attempt to recover the weapons, and therefore be exposed, is this allowable?

boofus
March 4, 2006, 03:23 PM
What about driving a M1 tank over them?

It won't work well on the artillery shells, rockets, and explosives but for regular small arms I think it'd be a cost effective way to render them inoperable.

geekWithA.45
March 4, 2006, 03:26 PM
Apparently, no one thought of backing up a cement mixer, folding out the chute, and pulling the spill leverl. :scrutiny:

Spiggy
March 4, 2006, 03:29 PM
why not just slather it with pork fat?

I mean, it is non-toxic:evil:

anyways, dont the iraqi people also have some natural rights to own firearms too?

marshall3
March 4, 2006, 03:30 PM
Don't we believe in the 2nd amendment?
Don't we believe in "Thou shalt not steal?"
These guns belong to the Iraqi people. Arm the people, and let them fight for whatever government they like. Then we can go home.

MatthewVanitas
March 4, 2006, 03:33 PM
We found out that driving an LAV over them sure won't do much; probably get much better results with the M1.

Most of the demilling I saw done in Iraq was achieved by propping the barrel of the AK up on one rock, lifting a BFR (big frickin' rock) up over the head, and throwing it down. Usually two or three hits with a 60lb BFR would break the receiver, and then it would all go in the burn pit.

But we kept the good-condition AKs to issue to Iraqi police and Iraqi Nat'l Guard. One day we had a convoy down to a small farming town to pass a few score AKs over to the local ING unit, and the captain asked me if there was any device we could use to disable the AKs in a hurry if we came under attack by insurgents. I thought a minute, and replied "Sir, if our convoy is hit so hard that insurgents are unloading the rifles from the rear of your Humvee, we probably have much larger problems to deal with."



This whole "Gun-B-Gone" spray sounds like they're putting too much thought into it. Crushing followed by burning seems a lot more practical for non-explosives, and simple mass burns out in the open desert for explosives.

-MV

Zen21Tao
March 4, 2006, 03:37 PM
How long before gun grabbers adopt a similar program to find a way to quickly dissolve legally owned firearm? What we need is a criminal melting spray. :D

paul45
March 4, 2006, 03:56 PM
Yes, I will take it a step further.....a Democrat dissolving spray...:neener:

DesertRat
March 4, 2006, 04:02 PM
Well, this is likely a long shot, but two thoughts.

1. Perhaps they ought to think about going through some type of a bid process to allow small businesses locally, throughout Iraq disassemble or otherwise destroy these weapons and then recylcle the scrap metal for other uses. I'm sure Iraq has plenty need for varying grades of metals for their reconstruction efforts.

However, I realize that from a practical standpoint many of those guns may be made from metals which are inferior. I'm thinking specifically of the the virtually home made grade AK's and the like (isn't it amazing what some of those guys can build over there with some simple hand tools?).

2. Alternatively have somebody (contractor) go through the literally dump truck loads of small arms to determine which guns are of decent quality and serviceable. Clean those weapons up and then reissue them to Iraqi police / military forces.

Any remaining, unservicable weapons can simply be sent to the smelter and recycled. I know, I know, that's assuming they have a smelter anywhere in that country.

2TransAms
March 4, 2006, 04:35 PM
Clean 'em up and trade 'em back for oil.

That won't happen.

So,I'm sure they have chemicals that will dissolve your receiver,but I guess they want something more localized,that will do it quickly and won't contaminate a large area.

gezzer
March 4, 2006, 06:12 PM
Sell,them to SARCO in a few days of their storage and they will be renderd useless junk!:evil:

denfoote
March 4, 2006, 06:24 PM
Don't we believe in the 2nd amendment?
Don't we believe in "Thou shalt not steal?"
These guns belong to the Iraqi people. Arm the people, and let them fight for whatever government they like. Then we can go home.

+1000!!!!

The problem is that Bushco doesn't really believe in that section of the Constitution. Yeah, he SAYS he does, and I'm gunna take a lot of heat for this, but the fact that there is NO right to keep and bear arms in the NEW Iraqi Constitution bears witness that he really wants to keep guns OUT of the hands of the people!!

MrTwigg
March 4, 2006, 06:43 PM
"Sir, if our convoy is hit so hard that insurgents are unloading the rifles from the rear of your Humvee, we probably have much larger problems to deal with."

Ya made my day ! :D 'Scuse me whilst I wipe the coffee off the screen.

Vic
March 4, 2006, 06:47 PM
I liked that statement. I bought from them ONCE...I learned quickly!

Justin
March 4, 2006, 07:14 PM
This whole "Gun-B-Gone" spray sounds like they're putting too much thought into it.

Which sounds typical of DARPA.

After all, this is the same group of government brainiacs that's working on remote control sharks. (http://www.newscientist.com/channel/mech-tech/mg18925416.300.html)

I just hope they have the sense to put some frickin' laser beams on 'em.

Art Eatman
March 4, 2006, 07:34 PM
The primary component of Magic is Unobtanium. The government's substitute is Expensivium.

:), Art

CDignition
March 4, 2006, 07:46 PM
2nd Amendment applies to the US, not Iraq...if Iraq has a right to bear arms in their constitution, I would be surprised..they wrote it, not us...

Mission Accomplished...sigh.I keep seeing this and keep having to explain it to dunderheads who mis understood it... It simply meant we were done wit hMAJOR conflict in the country...all the stuff that has been happening there(except for the Fallujah stufff) is just minor and terrorist related..the main mission of getting Saddam gone and getting rid of the Batthists there....looks like that was true.


As for the guns, just run em through a steel shredder...no problem,lol

Can'thavenuthingood
March 4, 2006, 07:53 PM
Isn't DARPA the outfit that, regardless of what algore says, invented the Internet?

Vick

cracked butt
March 4, 2006, 08:22 PM
Why not something off the shelf?

Expanding spray foam insultaion would work pretty good- a little shot in the barrel and a little in the action and gun becomes completely useless unless a person spends the next week trying to remove the gunk.

thumper723
March 4, 2006, 10:34 PM
+1 on the expanding foam. I got some on myself this morning. It maybe gone by next Friday if I am lucky!

Mooseman
March 4, 2006, 10:53 PM
The problem with anything that reacts with metal, etc. aggressively is that it is usually dangerous to work with and is difficult to store. My idea is a 2 part epoxy that you spray onto the equipment which makes it inoperable and is very hard to remove. eg. pc7. whadda think?

Mooseman
March 4, 2006, 10:55 PM
+1 cracked butt, your idea posted while I was thinking up mine.

Zen21Tao
March 4, 2006, 11:10 PM
Yes, I will take it a step further.....a Democrat dissolving spray...:neener:

I call dibs on this patent..... Lib-B-Gone or Libber-ate. :D

mrmeval
March 4, 2006, 11:32 PM
Nano disassemblers

http://www.dekker.com/sdek/abstract~db=enc~content=10.1081/E-ENN-120024601

Taurus 66
March 4, 2006, 11:59 PM
I got a way to melt guns, and faster ...

http://i2.tinypic.com/qqc29c.jpg

But nobwody bewieves me. :(

:evil:

4v50 Gary
March 5, 2006, 12:18 AM
Taurus66: that's a little overkill and besides, there's too much collateral damage.

Fire4Effect
March 5, 2006, 12:43 AM
Why don't they get a civilian contractor over their, have them demill them, and then ship them to companies like Century. The whole process should pay for itself if done properly. Then AK prices should drop here in the States

This won't work since they would have to come in through Arab controlled ports... :fire:

Telperion
March 5, 2006, 12:51 AM
Doesn't the military have thermite grenades for this exact purpose?

Manedwolf
March 5, 2006, 01:46 AM
After all, this is the same group of government brainiacs that's working on remote control sharks.

And the Active Denial System. DARPA did that, too. That one's actually being deployed...despite the fact that it can be deflected by a sheet of any material covered with tinfoil to be behind, or a surplus microwave protective coverall.

(They just made the conspiracy nuts be right, this time...tinfoil WILL stop the government's rays!)

lamazza
March 5, 2006, 02:51 AM
Ya they better get rid of them and fast because we need room for all the shiney, expensive new guns that we are equipping them with.

c_yeager
March 5, 2006, 02:52 AM
I would imagine that packing them up into shipping crates and sending them over to the CMP to be fairly distributed never even occured to these guys.

DBR
March 5, 2006, 04:00 AM
I this were my problem, I would get a plastic lined dumpster, fill it with either salt water or calcium chloride solution (there are certainly more corrosive safe solutions) dump the weapons in and leave it in the sun for about a week. What would come out would be rusted solid mass.

Fly320s
March 5, 2006, 08:39 AM
Why are there so many pro-gunners on this board who want to see serviceable weapons destroyed?

Solution: Sell the weapons. Sell them to local Iraqis or to a local Iraq dealer. Or bring them to the U.S. and sell them here.

Just don't destroy the guns. They are just guns, not evil incarnate.:rolleyes:

joesixpack
March 5, 2006, 10:41 AM
Couldn't we just send them to Rocky Mountain Arms and ask for them to get the Bear Coat treatment?

Sorry, someone had to say it.

m14rick
March 5, 2006, 11:03 AM
It has always upset me that an American has to jump through hoops to get a class 3 weapon, but the same weapons are available to whoever in third world nations. I don't agree with desroying weapons at all, but how about we send the infamous Captain Crunch over there, so he will leave our stuff alone? He made short work of our M14s, didn't he?

Manedwolf
March 5, 2006, 11:20 AM
I'd be in favor of taking them all, refinishing them, then taking them to nations where innocent populations are directly in the path of a sweeping genocide at the hands of a corrupt dictator...and hand out one AK and a case of 7.62 to each family. (A lot of Africa comes to mind).

See how fast that genocide comes to an abrupt halt.

Byron Quick
March 5, 2006, 11:31 AM
The description of DARPA in the article leads me to question the accuracy of anything the author writes. It shows both a lack of research and a lack of comprehension. Both deficiencies are common in today's journalists whether they work for liberal outfits or conservative outfits.

Highland Ranger
March 5, 2006, 11:38 AM
You're not allowed to mention bearcoat until you've had 100 posts . . .

:)

Ridge
March 5, 2006, 11:55 AM
Guys this whole conversation scares me.

I thought we were against sending firearms to be melted down and shredded?

What are you saying,it's okay for only us to have firearms in order to protect our selves with,but everybody else should just look to us for protection???

Damn,talk about calling the kettle black on Nannystate loving anti's.

I'm not saying we should hand them back to the insurgents but leave them for Iraqi citizens ,make them go through the same bg checks we do,because the way this thread sounds you guys would love it for everybody else to be dis-armed.

And this is not the high road.

Things would be very different for you guys if the situation were reversed,you would be screaming bloody murder.

cracked butt
March 5, 2006, 07:33 PM
I think the point here is that the goobermint is going to spend a $billion trying to find a solution to a supposed problem that most people here could solve with $5.
I don't favor destroying perfectly good and usable tools, its wasteful, but I like goobermint wasting my money even less.

Chrontius
March 5, 2006, 08:21 PM
I've got three points -- the first, from D&D, is the classic line: "I loot the orc!" We could always use the equipment. Remember:
rules for gunfighting:
Bring a gun.
Bring two guns.
Bring all your friends with guns.
Have them bring their friends with guns.

We could use the equipment. Even if it wound up being expensive 'small penis' toys, the military isn't getting enough funding, and these are just what we need for a 'bake sale' to pay for armored humvees.

Also, we could save Darfur. Janjaweed with machetes < villagers with AKs
http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs9/300W/i/2006/059/f/2/Darfur_by_Chrontius.jpg (http://www.deviantart.com/view/29709259/)

offthepaper
March 5, 2006, 09:05 PM
I say take the guns and ammo and distribute it to the resistence groups in Iran. ANY RESISTENCE GROUP!
Just to make things for the POS running that country a little more interesting for him from within. Give any rebel group enough fire power to go on the offensive on the Guard units. It sems as this could be done at a real bargin price too, if we're getting the guns and ammo free and already having it in close proximity to where it would need to be delivered.
Sounds better than spending big bucks to rust 'em up.
:cool:

spooney
March 6, 2006, 12:09 AM
I bet a chop saw would do the trick on at least 50 to 60 percent of the weapons there, one diagonal cut is a lot cheaper than developing the "gun melter spray"

marklbucla
March 6, 2006, 12:37 AM
They've got guns they need to get rid of...
They've also got a lot of explosives they need to get rid of...

Why not just use the explosives on the guns? :confused:

Now, I don't know if I've got the mentality of a military man, but I'd be in a long line of volunteers for that party. I surely wouldn't mind taking orders to blow stuff up.

Can'thavenuthingood
March 6, 2006, 12:48 AM
Go see your local Marine Corps. or Army recruiter, they are there to help you fulfill your dreams.

Vick

LAK
March 6, 2006, 03:28 AM
Instead of trying to melt them all down, why don't they just give them to the liberated formerly oppressed Iraqi people? Oh, wait; why don't they just ship them all here sans demilling?

Actually, IIRC a concoction of metal corroding microbes was well under developement a decade ago that can be used over wide areas to turn high grade ferrous metals into brittle pot metal very quickly.

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