How to give firearm as a gift.


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PlayboyPenguin
March 4, 2006, 05:47 PM
I am buying my partner's father a Ruger Model Six .32 H&R Mag for father's day. I was wondering how to give it to him. We will be traveling down to Mississippi right before then and I was wondering if I can just buy it here in Oregon and then check it on the plane to Mississippi. I have to pick it up here first so that I can have the grips engraved with his family crest. :)

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gudel
March 4, 2006, 06:08 PM
I wonder if gunshops have gift certificates.

brickeyee
March 4, 2006, 06:11 PM
To transfer a handgun across state lines requires an FFL at the receiving end.

PlayboyPenguin
March 4, 2006, 08:37 PM
If I understand correctly; I should be able to pick it up, engrave the handle, then have my dealer ship it to an FFL in Mississippi but we cannot hand carry it to him. Is this correct?

Byron Quick
March 4, 2006, 08:41 PM
You can ship it to the receiving FFL yourself as long as the receiver will accept shipment from a private individual. There is no federal law requiring you to use a FFL to ship to another FFL.

Car Knocker
March 4, 2006, 08:48 PM
Sometimes my memory tends to fail but I don't believe there is any federal law that precludes one from carrying a handgun across the state line and making the transfer through an FFL in the recipient's home state. State laws, of course, might not allow that.

nomadboi
March 4, 2006, 10:47 PM
Been trying to talk my dad into gifting me one of his old guns he never uses anymore... if he can bring it out himself and hand it to me, I still need to go through an FFL?

Lupinus
March 4, 2006, 11:31 PM
if it goes across state lines it needs an FFL to be legal

nomadboi
March 5, 2006, 02:14 AM
I take it you mean if the ownership goes across state lines? The owner can travel with a firearm just fine in a checked case, and then do a face-to-face transaction, but what I think you're saying is for me to legally be the owner, we'd need to both walk down to a gunshop and do the paperwork?

Where that gets really silly is that the gun shop would then have to hold it for a week, since I don't have a CHP...

Bah.

SIOP
March 5, 2006, 02:19 AM
Been trying to talk my dad into gifting me one of his old guns he never uses anymore... if he can bring it out himself and hand it to me, I still need to go through an FFL?

To be legal transfer has to go through an FFL on your end.

The owner can travel with a firearm just fine in a checked case, and then do a face-to-face transaction, but what I think you're saying is for me to legally be the owner, we'd need to both walk down to a gunshop and do the paperwork?

See above. Absolutely NO firearms transactions of ANY kind interstate without going through an FFL. The only exception is a bequest.

brickeyee
March 5, 2006, 03:38 PM
"To be legal transfer has to go through an FFL on your end. "

No, on the receivers end.
A non-licensee may ship a gun to a licensee (FFL holder). Some FFL holders only want to accept from other FFLs, but that is not what the law says.
The recipient’s FFL then has to complete all the Federal and local paperwork before transferring the gun to the new owner.
There is an advantage to doing the transfer FFL to FFL. They are allowed to use USPS for handgun shipping. Us commoners are not.

SIOP
March 5, 2006, 05:12 PM
"To be legal transfer has to go through an FFL on your end. "

No, on the receivers end.

He IS the receiver.

Byron Quick
March 5, 2006, 05:39 PM
OK, folks. It appears that there is some type of communication breakdown. PlayboyPenguin wishes to purchase a firearm as a gift to a person who lives in another state. The person receiving the gift is the one who will have to receive it through a FFL.

Of course, PlayboyPenguin will purchase it through a FFL but there is no legal requirement for it to be through a FFL just to a FFL. If PlayboyPenguin is visiting that state then he can deliver it to a FFL himself.

JerryM
March 5, 2006, 08:01 PM
I have done a similar transaction. I gave a handgun to a cousin who lived in another state. Here is the law per ATF

I could and did carry the gun myself to the state. I then had to have a ffl dealer in that state transfer it from me to my cousin. Again the ATF in both states confirmed it, and I had to have the dealer talk to the ATF as he thought I could just give it to my cousin since I was there and he was kin.

So hand carry it if you desire, take it to a dealer for the transfer. Double check with the ATF if you desire. I found them in both states very cooperative.

Jerry

nomadboi
March 8, 2006, 03:03 PM
Man, the ATF website is a pain to try to find anything on...

Would the same waiting periods apply with face to face transactions? Just wondering if the gunshop would have to store my father's shotgun for a week before they could give it to me, or if dad could hold on to it and just 'lend' it to me for the week.

'Card
March 8, 2006, 03:18 PM
Hold on just a second here...

As I understand the law, if I own a firearm, I can transport it across state lines without any significant issues, as long as it doesn't conflict with the laws of the state I'm leaving, the state I'm entering, or any states I might be traveling through, correct? At least, when I moved from WV to NC, that's how it was explained to me by the county sherriff's office. As long as I owned the guns, I could bring them to NC without any problems, as long as they didn't violate NC firearm laws.

So in this situation, if PP purchases the gun, then he's the owner of the gun. It doesn't matter what he bought it for. He owns it. So he's transporting a weapon that he owns to Mississippi, which is perfectly legal and doesn't need to involve anyone with an FFL at all, right?

Now while he's in Mississippi he just happens to decide to give that gun to his FIL. Gift. Done deal. Mississippi doesn't require any particular procedure for that type of weapon as far as I can tell. If he was in North Carolina, since it's a handgun, then his FIL would be required to get a permit to recieve the gift, but that still wouldn't involve anyone with an FFL.

So what am I missing here?

nomadboi
March 8, 2006, 03:20 PM
Where's a good place to find those individual state laws?

SIOP
March 8, 2006, 03:34 PM
Now while he's in Mississippi he just happens to decide to give that gun to his FIL. Gift. Done deal. Mississippi doesn't require any particular procedure for that type of weapon as far as I can tell. If he was in North Carolina, since it's a handgun, then his FIL would be required to get a permit to recieve the gift, but that still wouldn't involve anyone with an FFL

Both get to go to jail. It is a violation of the Gun Control Act for a non-licensee to transfer a firearm to a resident of another state. The only exceptions are bequests and active duty military in the state they reside or are stationed.

Henry Bowman
March 8, 2006, 03:59 PM
Would the same waiting periods apply with face to face transactions? Not a FTF within the state of WA between WA residents.

Just wondering if the gunshop would have to store my father's shotgun for a week before they could give it to me, or if dad could hold on to it and just 'lend' it to me for the week.I believe the answer is yep, unless you have a CHL, and nope no wink and nod way around it.

'Card
March 8, 2006, 03:59 PM
Well, I'll be damned.

Considering all of the great deals I've gotten on hunting rifles at the Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World in Charlotte, NC - and all of the WV relatives who have enjoyed their Christmas presents, I guess now I can add "habitual lawbreaker" and "interstate gunrunner" to my resume'. :)

..and to think, my Mother-in-Law said I'd never amount to anything.

Henry Bowman
March 8, 2006, 04:02 PM
'Card - Only those done since 1968. I'm sure all the ones you mention above happened before that, right? ;)

'Card
March 8, 2006, 04:11 PM
Exactly. All of that was pre-1968, and I didn't actually do anything like that back then. That was strictly a hypothetical scenario. Plus, the sun was in my eyes. And my foot slipped. The ice was lousy. I only had one beer at lunch, and Whittington should have yelled before approaching the group from that direction...

JerryM
March 8, 2006, 04:16 PM
SIOP is correct.

Jerry

scout26
March 8, 2006, 04:35 PM
'Card,

We need to punch up your resume' a little more:

Try "Career Criminal" and "Arms Trafficer". Now, doesn't that sound better/more professional. :neener:

'Card
March 8, 2006, 05:14 PM
Nah, I gotta have the word 'gunrunner' in there somewhere. Makes me sound like some kind of buccaneer, you know?

The chicks love that kind of thing. :cool:

ulflyer
March 8, 2006, 05:25 PM
Ain't about to argue with any of the above, but were it me, I'd do exactly what 'Card said. And/or just forget and leave the gun at FIL's house when I left...would not be the least concerned about doing that.:barf:

waterhouse
March 8, 2006, 05:38 PM
Let's say I move into a new state, and I legally bring my guns with me. After a while of living in that new state, I sell some of my guns (the ones I brought with me from the old state.)

How long do I have to be in the new state before I can transfer my guns without it being "a transfer to a resident of another state?" What if I have property in two states?

As a dealer, none of this really concerns me, but now I'm curious.

brickeyee
March 8, 2006, 06:23 PM
"The chicks love that kind of thing."

Only if you look good in an orange jumpsuit.

PlayboyPenguin
March 8, 2006, 07:32 PM
Only if you look good in an orange jumpsuit.
Is it a fitted jumpsuit or one of those "one size fits all" jumpsuits. Noone looks good in those. :)

Bravo11
March 9, 2006, 02:06 PM
I've been watching this thread and I guess I'm not up on
the law of the land.
If I buy a gun, complete the required paperwork, and give that gun to my out of state FIL then I'm breaking a federal law? What about an in state FIL? What about all the dads that buy their sons shotguns for Christmas?

SIOP
March 9, 2006, 02:22 PM
I've been watching this thread and I guess I'm not up on
the law of the land.
If I buy a gun, complete the required paperwork, and give that gun to my out of state FIL then I'm breaking a federal law? What about an in state FIL? What about all the dads that buy their sons shotguns for Christmas?


In-state transfers are not a problem unless your particular state happens to have some restrictions. As soon as you go interstate with anything an FFL must be involved on the receiving end.

Mannlicher
March 9, 2006, 08:21 PM
buy where you want and then just give it to him. Geez,

mr_dove
April 13, 2006, 02:38 PM
This kind of blows me away. My Father in Law (in Arizona) has a few handguns that I've been trying to talk him into giving me (my family). I guess it would be bad for him to gift them to me.

I've sold a few guns face to face but I never thought to consider if they were from out-of-state. This seems to mean that face-to-face MUST be in-state only.

I used to live in Arizona. I guess it would have been better to get the gift before I left. Hmm, perhaps I'm still a resident after all.

PlayboyPenguin
April 13, 2006, 02:46 PM
I finally got the gun bought, engraved, and sent. I ended up buying one for the FIL and one for my step-father (both .45colt Ruger Vaqueros). I had to use my dealer to ship them to an FFL near both of them. Finding an FFL dealer that would accept them from a private party was for all intensive purposes impossible. They would not even send me copies of their FFL so I could ship them anyway. Was easy to do once I let my dealer handle it.

nomadboi
May 3, 2006, 05:48 PM
Sorry to ressurrect an old thread here...

Looks like I'll be heading out to CO this Summer, where my father owns an extra shotgun he may be giving me. CO doesn't have a background check requirement for private transactions, so how would this work? He could just give it to me and it'd be mine, or would we still have to go to a gunshop and fill out the paperwork there? Presumably then I could just fly it back to Washington State as my own, right?

Kevlarman
May 3, 2006, 06:19 PM
Here in California, the DOJ says that you can transfer a firearm between parents/children or grandparents/grandchildren FTF without any FFL. This is only for longarms, though. Yuo can do the same with a handgun, but I think you have to register it with the DOJ within 30 days.

Anyways, I bought a few offlist AR15-type :neener: lowers a few months ago.
My brother, being stationed in Florida, wanted one. He came home for a few weeks, at which point I gave a lower to my mom (even wrote and dated a gift receipt), who in turn gave it to my brother (also with a receipt).

At no point did I transfer a lower from myself to my brother, which would be illegal.
:D

tegemu
May 3, 2006, 06:22 PM
Here's a thought, If someone gives me a gun, it is now mine. If at a later date I move to another state, do I have to use an FFL? This is essentially the same as being given a gun this morning then driving across a state line this afternoon, which I believe several posters have stated has to be thru an FFL.

Henry Bowman
May 3, 2006, 06:25 PM
If 'ya want to do all all legal and proper, he has to send it to a Washington FFL, who will do the transfer to you, with the 4473 and NICS call, for a small fee.

If you do it the other way, the probability of it being a problem is small, but the consequences are quite large.

Henry Bowman
May 3, 2006, 06:27 PM
tagemu -- It all depends on your (and their) state of residency at the time of the transfer.

nomadboi
May 3, 2006, 06:43 PM
So if I were buying it from an FFL in Colorado, would I still have to ship it to an FFL in WA, or could I just bring it back as my own? If I could just bring it back, then I don't see how buying it (or being given it) from someone in CO is different...

Not even sure who I'd ask to get an authoritative answer. Suggestions?

Definitely want to keep above-board on this. I've been applying for police departments, and need to keep my nose clean.

FWIW, I'm a Washington State resident and I think Dad's a Colorado resident (he only lives there part of the year, but I think that's where his driver's license is).

Henry Bowman
May 3, 2006, 06:51 PM
(he only lives there part of the year, but I think that's where his driver's license is).The DL is indicative, but where does he spend more time of the year? Which does he claim to be his state of residence with respect to paying or not paying state income tax? (I know WA has none.)

So if I were buying it from an FFL in Colorado, would I still have to ship it to an FFL in WA, Yes. There are exceptions that allow long guns to be transfered from an FFL in another state to you (as allowed by state law, usually limited to contiguous states).

If I could just bring it back, then I don't see how buying it (or being given it) from someone in CO is different...
Practically speaking, no difference. Legally, all the difference in the world.

Not even sure who I'd ask to get an authoritative answer. Suggestions?If you don't believe me (I am a WA lawyer, but not your lawyer), try atf.gov and look for a FAQ page.

phoglund
May 3, 2006, 07:05 PM
Just for my information...Bowman: What's a "WA Lawyer" ? I'd assume Washington except your location says Ohio.

mp510
May 3, 2006, 07:22 PM
Just for my information...Bowman: What's a "WA Lawyer" ? I'd assume Washington except your location says Ohio.
Phoglund, could it be that he has passed the Bar in multiple states?

Gun Geezer
May 3, 2006, 08:15 PM
Heck, just carry the pistol down to old Miss and leave it there. No "gift". Just leave it there. It is still yours, just would be nice to have a pistol at the FIL's house to shoot when you come to visit. Save's all the hassle of dealling with the TSA each trip down.

Highland Ranger
May 3, 2006, 08:35 PM
I don't get this one . . . . "I bought it in a private sale and lost the receipt."

and

"Don't remeber who I bought it from."

Even in NJ they allow you to own handguns that you had when you moved in from another state and you don't have to declare them or even prove their origin.

Regarding the above hypothetical scenario, how could they possibly prove otherwise unless they taped the conversation between the gifter and the giftee?

The fact that this thread exists proves to me that gun laws are outta way control.

mp510
May 3, 2006, 09:54 PM
Regarding the above hypothetical scenario, how could they possibly prove otherwise unless they taped the conversation between the gifter and the giftee?
Let's see, if there are certain facts that they can determine very easily, without any real work.
1. The date of manufacture on said firearm, by serial number and manufactuer records.
2. Who the Manufacturer shipped it to (since this is a Ruger, the distributor).
3. Which dealer it was sold to.
4. Who that dealer sold it to.
5. Your state of residence. You put it on the paperwork and bound book when you purchased said firearm.
6. Where the gun ended up after you.

If the gun went through a licensee as it was supposed to, BATFE would be able to find records demonstrating that, if you broke the law there would be no records. They would be able to do an excellent job of connecting the illegal transfer to you and him by your relationship (F and/or FIL) .

There would be enough circumstancial evidence to make one's life a living hell.

Henry Bowman
May 4, 2006, 11:18 AM
I passed the Washington bar and practiced there for 11 years. Now my practice is located in Cincinnati (since 1998) and I am admitted in OH and KY also. Sorry to have been cryptic.

The fact that this thread exists proves to me that gun laws are outta way control.Indeed. We need to start by rewinding to pre-1968 (Gun Control Act of 1968) and then work on the National Firearms Act of 1934.

phoglund
May 4, 2006, 12:33 PM
Thanks for the reply Bowman. It seems to me we need more pro-gun attorneys such as yourself around.

Gordon Fink
May 4, 2006, 01:14 PM
Having money would be a nice start. I canít afford to give such an expensive gift. :(

~G. Fink

HankB
May 4, 2006, 01:54 PM
I used to live in Arizona. I guess it would have been better to get the gift before I left. Hmm, perhaps I'm still a resident after all.Maybe he actually DID gift it to you then, and you just forgot to pack it when you moved? ;)

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