[jamz]

I've been looking for a lighter J frame for when the old all steel model 60 gets a bit too heavy.

Every alloy frame S&W gun I've seen has the S&W revolver lock, which I don't want on a carry gun. I could have sworn I'd seen one in the past, but not in the last year or so. Does such a beast exist?

-James

[justa shooter]

Depending on where you read Smith and Wesson introduced the lock in 2002-2004. J frames without locks are out there. They may bring a premium over models with locks when you find them. I have a 642-2 with lock. The lock has has no influence on it function or point of impact in the hundreds of rounds fired through it. I like mine, lock and all. justa

[Lone_Gunman]

All current S&W revolvers have the lock, there is no way around it at this point.

The lock probably is not a functional problem on most guns. Of course, if yours fails at a bad time, the statistics don't really matter. I see no reason to complicate a near-perfect design by adding an unnecessary part that might fail and cause my death.

My recommendation is to look for a used pre-lock S&W revolver. There are tens of thousands of them out there. I also think pre-lock revolvers will be considerably more collectible in years to come than revolvers with the lock.

[mtnbkr]

In 2005, S&W released to the market a small number of M37s with bobbed hammers, no MIM parts, and no locks. These were made for a foreign contract that was never fulfilled I think. Anyway, they're still out there. I saw them for sale at the last gunshow I attended. I have one, it's a nice gun. I paid $389 for mine, but I've seen them as low as $369.

Chris

[Lone_Gunman]

I have seen some of the guns you describe, and as you say they were from a limited run for a foreign market. You can't count on finding those.

[mtnbkr]

Dunno about the rest of the country, but they seem fairly common here in Va. My local shop had several (and had at least one last time I looked). They were available at the past two gunshows I attended.

They're worth tracking down if you must have those features AND a NIB gun. It's probably easier to find one of those M37s than a NOS pre-lock model (or even lightly used versions).

Chris

[jamz]

I don't mind a used gun, even a well-used one as long as it's reliable. In fact, all of my S&W revos are used. I understand that they made some alloy models and came out with the lock in 2002 or so, so I was hoping there would be a modlel year .38 (hopefully with the bobbed hammer aka "bodyguard" model) that would not yet have the lock.

If anyone has any model numbers with dashes, it would be much appreciated and it would help out my so far non-scientific search. :)

I'll be on the lookout for those M37s though, thanks!

-James

[kjdoski]

FWIW, I've had several j-frames with the lock. I've had 0 problems with the lock through several thousand rounds (spread over three or four pistols), and the triggers have broken in every bit as nicely as any of my older, pre-lock Smiths...

Regards,

Kevin

[Gary A]

On those new "no-lock" Model 37s that have been on the market: I've got one and like it very much but be advised that they are built on the older "pre-magnum" frame. That is the frame that was never rated for Plus P loads. Some folks are claiming and some people at Smith and Wesson seem to be OK'ing them for limited plus P use but, frankly, I have my reservations for a variety of reasons. I prefer to treat them to a diet of standard pressure loads. That may not matter, and I could be wrong, but before buying one "sight unseen", just be aware what you are getting. It is a 37-2 and not a -3. I would have no problem stuffing one with Plus P if I thought I needed the power but I won't be shooting plus P loads in mine just for longevity's sake.

[mtnbkr]

I'm one of those who was told by S&W that +P is ok. I kept that email. :)

I've put about 30 +P rounds through mine with no problems. Now that I've settled on a carry around, I doubt it'll see another 30 rounds of +P in the next decade. I have a "less than standard pressure" load (-P?) that I'll use for practice. It hits within 1" of the +P carry load at 10yds.

Chris

[BackCountry]

I've put thousands of rounds through my model 60-15 with a lock and never had a problem. Never heard of anyone having a problem on the stainless steel framed revolvers. Don't know about problems with the alloy j-frames though. If you can't find a pre lock model and are worried about it, just grind off the tab on the lock and disable it, or remove it altogether. Here is a good artical about the model 60-15 that shows good pictures of the proceedure. http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/Model_60-15.htm

[asknight]

I bought a 2005 manufacture 37-2 during Smith & Wesson Days at my local dealer for $330. It does not have the bobbed hammer, nor the internal lock. The S&W rep said it was intended for a foreign contract that was rescinded by one party or the other. It is clearly marked on the barrel and in all the paperwork that it is +P safe. It is Minute-of-Coke-Can at 15 yards and has utterly impressed me. The dealer sold out of 37-2's that weekend. The following week when his new order arrived, they all had internal locks and were $100 more ($430). I'm not sure if they were 37-2's or 37-3's that came in the following week. Cosmetically, they appeared the same.

[Striker]

Have your dealer contact RSR Distributors. They had the no lock "cancelled foreign sales" 37's as of 2 weeks ago. (I bought a pair of them thru my dealer). BTW, one is marked .38 Spl on the barrel, the other is marked .38 Spl +P. Go figure.....

[RidgwayCO]

There are some 638 Bodyguard's out there without the internal lock, but I don't know how many...

[jmcc11]

There are some 638 Bodyguard's out there without the internal lock, but I don't know how many...

I just picked one up off of Gunbroker a couple of weeks ago.

[zephyr]

+1 on the new old stock 37-2 that mtnbkr mentioned. I saw one a local gun show and one at a local store since December. They are both now mine. I've only shot one of them and it's great! My wife shot it for the first time this weekend and liked it as well. I recommend grabbing these up while they last.

[Robert Hairless]

There are some for sale on Gunbroker. Search for "S&W 37."

[fastbolt]

FWIW ... this year, when I asked someone at S&W when they had started making their regular Airweight aluminum revolvers capable of being used with +P ammunition, I was told that as long the .38 +P ammunition is within established SAAMI specs for .38 +P, that they've basically been making their Airweights +P capable for about the last 8 years. Naturally, anyone curious about the date of manufacturer of their Airweights, and whether it's considered capable of being used with high quality +P ammunition, should call S&W and ask ...

Now, my 642-1 may be capable of being used with +P ammunition for a more or less steady diet ... but I'm not. Not in an Airweight (or a Ti/Sc J-frame, for that matter). I've fired some boxes of different major manufacturers' .38 +P through it, and after anywhere from 50-100+ rounds of +P loads in one range session, my trigger finger has been hammered 'enough' by the rising trigger guard.;)

Now that I've sufficiently demonstrated to myself that the gun fires reliably and accurately with the different +P loads of my choice, I generally save anywhere from a couple, to a few, speedloaders of +P ammunition for range training, adding them to standard pressure loads.

[VWTim]

I was told that regular 442 (no dash) aren't +P rated, while -1 and -2's are.
I saw one of each for sale last weekend, so they are out there.

[ulflyer]

Jamz: theres a oouple of M-36's, 5 shot 38's, all steel, listed in the for sale section. I have one and its a great carry gun with enough weight it doesn't beat the crap outta your hand shooting it.

[tgf600]

Im looking for one of the M37 2005 with the barrel marked +P.

If anyone has one to sell or knows where I can get one please let me know.

You can email me @ 45sig@charter.net

Thanks
Tim

731-608-0480

[.41Dave]

Yes, S&W made the model 337 (a titanium airlite +p rated .38 special j-frame). It was introduced a year or two before the lock. If you look carefully, you can occasionally find a lockless 337 for sale. You won't find mine though. I use it for daily carry and I'm very happy with it.;)

[jamz]

HAHA! I found my gun!

S&W from 1996 to 1998 made the model 38 bodyguard, an alloy framed j frame, sans lock, and I've always liked the bodyguard style of hammer. I found one at the Kittery Trading Post last night for $350 or so and I put it on hold. :D

Sadly I don't have $350, so I will probably trade in my old model 60, which will see no carry and little shooting after I get a lighter j frame.

Wohoo!

-James

[Logan5]

That seems like a pretty good deal to me; I was looking at a 38-3 like that, NIB at a local gunmonger and they wanted $470 plus tax. Perhaps that's why it's been sitting there, not selling for ten years. I ended up going with an old no-dash model 38 with a lot of finish wear I found for $210.

[jamz]

Update: It was $325, not $350. Grabbed it and shot it yesterday, shoots to point of aim, goes bang every time, and with cocobolo grips it looks and feels real nice. :) I'ts a Model 38 dash nothing, wth a pinned barrel. No cracks around the forcing cone. :)

Oh, and the J-Frame I traded in? I paid $265 for it a couple of years ago, and got $260 on the trade-in. :D

[fastbolt]

FWIW, I've recently asked someone else at S&W whether the 37-2 bobbed hammer J-frames were rated for +P usage, and I was told that the 37's still produced with the frame stud cylinder stops, instead of the integral cylinder stops, were not +P rated since they didn't have the newer Airweight frames. There may be some confusion about this issue, even among the customer service folks.

That's not a big deal to me, since I don't shoot +P ammunition in my older M649 Bodyguard often, either ... only enough to cycle out some older carry loads occasionally.

Anyone wondering about the advisability of using +P ammunition in J-frames not specifically marked as being rated for +P ought to call S&W and ask, providing the serial number of their gun.

[Gary A]

One of the folks over at smith-wessonforum.com sent me a copy of the emails between him and S&W on this subject where he was told +P was OK. I was still dubious about Smith's answer suspecting that the responder was thinking only of the newer frame guns, so I sent my own e-mail trying to carefully describe the gun with its old-style frame, etc. In reply, I also received an e-mail which stated that "The handgun was manufactured in 2005, and yes you may fire the +P ammo in this handgun". In point of fact, I will fire little, if any, plus P ammo in this gun but I am keeping the e-mail :) . Honestly, this 37-2 shows none of the features attributed to the newer plus P frame, so I don't know why it is so rated, but Smith's answer is pretty clear to me.

Edited to add: I think the answer that fastbolt got makes the most sense to me.

[mtnbkr]

I sent them an email back when I bought the gun, providing the serial number and a description. I too got an email response stating the gun is safe for +P.

I kept that email.

Chris