[eclancy]

Gentlemen,
Here is the photo and some data on Mr. Garand's 20 round detachable mag. Rifle. Ordnance turned down this rifle. The year is 1920. BTW I will be running a SALE on Vol. 1 and 2 of the Garand Papers. Email me for info. garandm1rifle@rnc.com
Have fun with this one.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c21/eclancy/a82bd7b3.jpg
http://www.garandm1rifle.com
Thanks again for taking the time and effort to read this.
Clancy

[Manedwolf]

Do the plans still exist?!

If so, that'd be an instant sellout if Springfield or such wanted to make and sell them.

Imagine 20 rounds of 30-06. From a Garand. With a detachable mag... :D :evil:

[RecoilRob]

Source of power: Setback of primer against tappet.....

Doesn't sound like a great and safe way to do things, does it?

[david_the_greek]

I know after WWII italy and (sometime later, not exactly sure) greece adopted the garand. some company modified the garand to 7.62 and produced a number of variants including ones with 20rd detachables. I would love to find out if any smiths or company in the U.S. converts garands into detachable clip users. I got mine in my lap right now after oiling and would love to have one with detachable clip (no funds to buy an m14 right now).

[Marcus]

BM59

[Jim Watson]

As I recall reading, primer setback operation ran quite well in the early Garands, as long as .30-06 was loaded with fast burning Pyro powder. When they switched to progressive burining MR powders, the impulse was not sharp enough for reliable function, so Mr G went to gas operation.

There was some furrin' design that used primer setback in special brass with thick casehead and deep primer pocket, practically a self contained gas piston. I wonder if that might not be worth another look. "Cleaner" than AR direct gas, no long op rod like other gas guns; just a stout firing pin connected to the works.

Late in WW II the Army worked on higher capacity Garands. An M1 with a 20 round BAR magazine would have made a lot of sense, but they wasted a lot of effort making it selective fire in the T20 series. I don't think you are going to hit much with a 10 lb .30-06 on full auto.

The Italians designed the BM59 family, M14 lookalikes.
I remember an old magazine article about a similar makeover done by a Cuban refugee, the Erquiaga Conversion.

[Vern Humphrey]

My understanding on this is that the primer set-back action died when the Army decided to go with staked primers (which they still use -- and anyone who has deprimed military ammo knows.) EC can correct me if I'm wrong.

Personally, I think the decision to go with gas action was right. But the en bloc clip was THE major flaw in the Garand. It made the rifle unnecessarily complicated, prevented over-bore mounting of optical sights, prevented topping-off rifles in action (without spilling rounds all over) and so on.

[HankB]

An M1 with a 20 round BAR magazine would have made a lot of senseActually, some years back I read about a gunsmith who was doing just that, so the original .30/06 cartridge would be retained.

The conversion was rather controversial as I understand it involved milling away a LOT of steel from the receiver in order to put in the mag catch, provide clearances, etc., for the BAR mag to seat.

[Vern Humphrey]

Actually, some years back I read about a gunsmith who was doing just that, so the original .30/06 cartridge would be retained.

The conversion was rather controversial as I understand it involved milling away a LOT of steel from the receiver in order to put in the mag catch, provide clearances, etc., for the BAR mag to seat.

M1s have also been converted to 7.62X51 NATO and modified to take M14 magazines.

If the rifle had been designed from the git-go to take the BAR magazine, of course, no milling away of any steel would have been needed, and the receiver would have been as strong as the en block versions.

[eclancy]

Gentlemen,
You must also remember that NEW TERROR WEAPON of WW1. The Airplane. IN WW1 it was low and slow in attacking ground units. Ordnance wanted troops to have some firepower against this new weapon. Sorry, it's just data in the files.
Thanks again
Clancy