at school yesterday


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belton-deer-hunter
March 7, 2006, 11:28 AM
well i went to school yesterday and not much to my suprise they had the drug dogs come in and search the school and our vehicles now the dog is trained to pick up on gun powder so of course he hit on my truck i get called to the office and they search it and in my truck they find about 50 rounds of .22, 12 gauge, and 30-30. and they even found a 20 gauge which i dont even own a 20 gauge anymore long story short i am not aloowed to carry ammo in my truck it is against the rules they say now does this fall under the 2nd? also i am not aloowed to have knives if my truck as long as it is on school grounds now does this sound like bull to any of yall?

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GTSteve03
March 7, 2006, 11:39 AM
Don't park in the school parking lot, find somewhere across the street or something. Then they can't force their Socialist agenda on you anymore! :evil:

belton-deer-hunter
March 7, 2006, 11:41 AM
that is what i was thinking unfornatly the parking lot across the street belongs to the county court house and am quite sure they might have some laws against that to

HankB
March 7, 2006, 11:53 AM
Whatever you do, don't get caught scattering gunpowder, gunpowder residue, Hoppe's #9, or anything else around the parking lot, on administrator's cars, or down the school hallways - searches of their own cars and lockers would inconvenience the people in charge.

mr_dove
March 7, 2006, 11:59 AM
when i was a youth I would have found it hilarious to spread gun powder all around campus. Not sure if it would be effictive to spread it on the ground though. I'd probably have to find a way to get some inside peoples cars or lockers.

wdlsguy
March 7, 2006, 12:01 PM
does this sound like bull to any of yall?

If you are an employee, it's probably in the employee handbook. If you are a student, it's probably in the student handbook. So how much trouble did you get in? Did they fire / expel / suspend you?

belton-deer-hunter
March 7, 2006, 12:02 PM
hank i love you i really do that was the hardest i hav laughed all day but it is still early to any way the princelple is a good friend of mine who hunts and owns guns so he only gave me a day of iss and he told me that if i went to the regular high school that i would have been sent to the distrect alternitive education campus so he saveed my butt but i still think that in my truck what i have is mine and none of there bisnuess

Bobarino
March 7, 2006, 12:06 PM
last i checked, the 4th amendment didn't get negated on school grounds. perhaps you should bring a copy of it and show it to the administrators, along with your lawyer's contact information if they have any more questions.

Bobby

belton-deer-hunter
March 7, 2006, 12:08 PM
they have probable cause when the dog hoits on my truck he is trained to smell gun powder and drugs so it is fair but i dont see how a bullet with no gun is harmful what am i going to do throw them?

simon
March 7, 2006, 12:20 PM
They probably don't search the faculty breakroom or lockers.(do they? ;^D)
get some plastic straws, fold and tape an end, fill w/powder, just a little, and tape other end.
Now, any rabidly anti-gun facilitators/teachers there? Know where their lockers are? Cars? Desks?purses/lunchbags? you follow?
Unruly students?

Frankly, if you negate they're reasons for the searchs, no, thats not what I'm trying to say, if they are getting too many hits on the school grounds, not only might they stop doing them ,but the media might make a fuss.

Burn the evidence...

1911JMB
March 7, 2006, 12:55 PM
"Whatever you do, don't get caught scattering gunpowder, gunpowder residue, Hoppe's #9, or anything else around the parking lot, on administrator's cars, or down the school hallways - searches of their own cars and lockers would inconvenience the people in charge."

Thats hillarous. A friend of mine did a different but similarly funny thing. He saw what he knew to be K9 units roll up to his high school along with cop cars from several different agencies. He told the teacher "I'll be right back. You'll know why I'm gone in a second." He then ran down the halls yelling "THE DRUG DOGS ARE COMING, THE DRUG DOGS ARE COMING." I don't know if he managed to warn anybody in time to prevent any contraband from being seized, but he did manage to forwarn most of the school about a drug search that was supposed to be a complete secret to all but a few people.

Thefabulousfink
March 7, 2006, 02:01 PM
Personally I don't think haveing the K-9 sniff you car in the school parking lot is justified under the 4th Amendment. It is the same as stopping everyone on the road and giving manditory drug tests. If no crime has been committed then they have no reason to be searching for evidence. If the police had reason to believe that some kid was selling drugs on campus, then a search would be justified. This sounds like a regular every-day search and is total BS. They are just looking for reasons to get people in trouble which is the type of Police-State actions that the 4th Amendment is suppose to prevent.

However, keep in mind that you are a highschool student, under the age of 18 (I assume), you are NOT a US citizen. You are NOT subject to all the rights and privlages of the Constitution. You ARE under the direct authority of your parents and administrators. And most of all, you CAN be subject to all the penalties of a FULL citizen, as well as any penalties the school thinks up. So try and stay out of trouble until you are a US citizen, then you can fight for your rights.:cuss:

sturmruger
March 7, 2006, 02:18 PM
I would ask for a copy of the rules in writing so that you know that they aren't blowing smoke.

ChefGW
March 7, 2006, 02:44 PM
This kind of stuff just burns me up. I remember when I was still in school, we had gun racks in the back windows of our trucks. I kept a fishing pole in one slot and a 22 in the other. That was only 10 years ago. I really am not looking forward to what my son is going to have to face in his lifetime. It's just sad anymore that an honest, upright American who wants to legally own a gun has to jump through flaming hoops to get one while criminals can buy one for 50 bucks from Jose or G-Dawg out of the back of their car!

Oh, sorry about that rant. Hope everything works out for you BDH.

Azrael256
March 7, 2006, 02:49 PM
My grandparents tell stories of shooting rabbits at recess. *sigh* How far we've come.

asknight
March 7, 2006, 03:07 PM
Thefabulousfink, just because you are under the age of 18 does not mean you are not a citizen. What are you thinking? How do you explain all of the pregnant illegals jumping the borders to have their babies? They know that their babies will be "natural born citizens", with full rights... to welfare, public education, etc.

Why do we have all of these needy children on Medicaide, WIC, etc if they're not citizens? Why are we wasting all of our tax dollars taking care of non-citizens?

I'm sure you now see the error in your thinking, I hope.

c_yeager
March 7, 2006, 03:23 PM
Personally I don't think haveing the K-9 sniff you car in the school parking lot is justified under the 4th Amendment. It is the same as stopping everyone on the road and giving manditory drug tests. If no crime has been committed then they have no reason to be searching for evidence. If the police had reason to believe that some kid was selling drugs on campus, then a search would be justified. This sounds like a regular every-day search and is total BS. They are just looking for reasons to get people in trouble which is the type of Police-State actions that the 4th Amendment is suppose to prevent.


If it's a private school then the lot is privately owned property, and the dogs are legally OK. It would be like having your dog smelling around cars that are parked on your lawn. If its a public school I agree that the search is out of line. Regardless of what kind of school it is I dont think the hit from the dog is enough grounds for a search, I bet they asked the poster for permission, possibly on the threat of school sanctions (which should be held in the same light as a warrantless search without permission, but it wont be).

Braden
March 7, 2006, 03:24 PM
well i went to school yesterday and not much to my suprise they had the drug dogs come in and search the school and our vehicles now the dog is trained to pick up on gun powder so of course he hit on my truck i get called to the office and they search it and in my truck they find about 50 rounds of .22, 12 gauge, and 30-30. and they even found a 20 gauge which i dont even own a 20 gauge anymore long story short i am not aloowed to carry ammo in my truck it is against the rules they say now does this fall under the 2nd? also i am not aloowed to have knives if my truck as long as it is on school grounds now does this sound like bull to any of yall?

I sort of had the same thing happen to me when I was in high school (a whopping 11 years ago....man I'm getting old).

Dogs came, I got called to office, sheriff's deputy asked to search my truck and I complied. I lived in a small, rural town at the time so the stuff they found was no surprise to anyone. A box of shotgun shells I had stuck behind the seat from my last hunting trip had apparently set the dogs nose off. They were less concerned about that than they were the 10" fillet knife I had in my tackle box (I used to keep my fishing rods and tackle box in my toolbox "just in case" I happened upon a good fishing hole).

The principal kept my knife until the end of the day and then suggested that I leave it at home next time. Nothing ever came of it, but I didn't complain because it got me out out of class for a little while. ;)

belton-deer-hunter
March 7, 2006, 03:28 PM
i am 18 and that is what i told the pricipal that i was 18 and believed in 2nd and he said "well so do i but that doesnt mean that i can bring a gun to school" but there was no gun! that is what eats me up but i am thinking just few more years and i can getr my ccw and my new colt .45 any way even in texas we still have to fight to keep what is ours



and the same thing with me they even searched my tackle box their wordxs were " why you are quite an outdoorsamn arent you"

ALHunter
March 7, 2006, 03:33 PM
In these days of those idiotic "zero tolerance" policies, Belton is very lucky he didn't get expelled and and find himself at the mercy of some mandatory assignment to an "alternative school."

There are dozens, probably hundreds, of cases addressing the 4th Amendment and school searches. Suffice to say, students are subject to searches of their person (athletes getting urine tests for drugs) and vehicle searches. The US Supreme Court has weighed in on this and the 4th Amendment implications many times. A quick search on Westlaw revealed an intersting case from 1985. Relevant to this thread is the following:

New Jersey v. T.L.O.
469 U.S. 325, 105 S.Ct. 733, 83 L.Ed.2d 720 (1985)

“We join the majority of courts that have examined this issue in concluding that the accommodation of the privacy interests of schoolchildren with the substantial need of teachers and administrators for freedom to maintain order in the schools does not require strict adherence to the requirement that searches be based on probable cause to believe that the subject of the search has violated or is violating the law. Rather, the legality of a search of a student should depend simply on the reasonableness, under all the circumstances, of the search.”

Note 2 from the case states:

“State and federal courts considering these questions have struggled to accommodate the interests protected by the Fourth Amendment and the interest of the States in providing a safe environment conducive to education in the public schools. Some courts have resolved the tension between these interests by giving full force to one or the other side of the balance. Thus, in a number of cases courts have held that school officials conducting in-school searches of students are private parties acting in loco parentis and are therefore not subject to the constraints of the Fourth Amendment. See, e.g., D.R.C. v. State, 646 P.2d 252 (Alaska App.1982); In re G., 11 Cal.App.3d 1193, 90 Cal.Rptr. 361 (1970); In re Donaldson, 269 Cal.App.2d 509, 75 Cal.Rptr. 220 (1969); R.C.M. v. State, 660 S.W.2d 552 (Tex.App.1983); Mercer v. State, 450 S.W.2d 715 (Tex.Civ.App.1970).

At least one court has held, on the other hand, that the Fourth Amendment applies in full to in-school searches by school officials and that a search conducted without probable cause is unreasonable, see State v. Mora, 307 So.2d 317 (La.), vacated, 423 U.S. 809, 96 S.Ct. 20, 46 L.Ed.2d 29 (1975), on remand, 330 So.2d 900 (La.1976); others have held or suggested that the probable-cause standard is applicable at least where the police are involved in a search, see M. v. Board of Ed. Ball-Chatham Community Unit School Dist. No. 5, 429 F.Supp. 288, 292 (SD Ill.1977); Picha v. Wielgos, 410 F.Supp. 1214, 1219-1221 (ND Ill.1976); State v. Young, 234 Ga. 488, 498, 216 S.E.2d 586, 594 (1975); or where the search is highly intrusive, see M.M. v. Anker, 607 F.2d 588, 589 (CA2 1979).

The majority of courts that have addressed the issue of the Fourth Amendment in the schools have, like the Supreme Court of New Jersey in this case, reached a middle position: the Fourth Amendment applies to searches conducted by school authorities, but the special needs of the school environment require assessment of the legality of such searches against a
standard less exacting than that of probable cause. These courts have, by and large, upheld warrantless searches by school authorities provided that they are supported by a reasonable suspicion that the search will uncover evidence of an infraction of school disciplinary rules or a violation of the law. See, e.g., Tarter v. Raybuck, 742 F.2d 977 (CA6 1984); Bilbrey v. Brown, 738 F.2d 1462 (CA9 1984); Horton v. Goose Creek Independent School Dist., 690 F.2d 470 (CA5 1982); Bellnier v. Lund, 438 F.Supp. 47 (NDNY 1977); M. v. Board of Ed. Ball-Chatham Community Unit School Dist. No. 5, supra; In re W., 29 Cal.App.3d 777, 105 Cal.Rptr. 775 (1973); State v. Baccino, 282 A.2d 869 (Del.Super.1971); State v. D.T.W., 425 So.2d 1383 (Fla.App.1983); State v. Young, supra; In re J.A., 85 Ill.App.3d 567, 40 Ill.Dec. 755, 406 N.E.2d 958 (1980); People v. Ward, 62 Mich.App. 46, 233 N.W.2d 180 (1975); Doe v. State, 88 N.M. 347, 540 P.2d 827 (App.1975); People v. D., 34 N.Y.2d 483, 358 N.Y.S.2d 403, 315 N.E.2d 466 (1974); State v. McKinnon, 88 Wash.2d 75, 558 P.2d 781 (1977); In re L.L., 90 Wis.2d 585, 280 N.W.2d 343 (App.1979).

Although few have considered the matter, courts have also split over whether the exclusionary rule is an appropriate remedy for Fourth Amendment violations committed by school authorities. The Georgia courts have held that although the Fourth Amendment applies to the schools, the exclusionary rule does not. See, e.g., State v. Young, supra; State v. Lamb, 137 Ga.App. 437, 224 S.E.2d 51 (1976). Other jurisdictions have applied the rule to exclude the fruits of unlawful school searches from criminal trials and delinquency proceedings. See State v. Mora, supra; People v. D., supra.”

Bill2k1
March 7, 2006, 03:36 PM
I hate to break it on some of you older guys, but times have changed. A child in public school has no rights. There is no search issues. If it is on school grounds it can be searched, no matter who owns it. When schools handout the student handbook, it is basically a list of what rights you gave up entering the grounds.

It is just the way it is. I learned not to leave my guns in the car when I went to school. When we went hunting after school, I would have to stop home and grab my shotgun.

svtruth
March 7, 2006, 03:40 PM
must be different than bomb dogs, aren't they. If my dog snifs something, I'd want to be confident it was drugs, not a booby trap. Though it could be both.

V4Vendetta
March 7, 2006, 03:45 PM
As much as I've heard from this forum, I'm so glad that I've been home-schooled. I remember going to public school until 5th grade & dealing with other kids & teachers was just :barf: . I'm a loner. A nomad. A real life Solid Snake.:D

Lonestar.45
March 7, 2006, 03:46 PM
How times have changed. No, it doesn't sound right to me at all. But there's not anything you can do about it more than likely. In my youth, going what you went through, I know exactly what I'd have done, and it would have involved lots of firecrackers (full of gunpower you know) stuffed into lots of faculty vehicles and placed in funny inconvenient places.

Unfortunately it's their rules, and if you want to keep parking on campus, they will enforce those rules or you'll have to park elsewhere. Good luck man.

Taurus 617 CCW
March 7, 2006, 03:50 PM
I suppose when I have kids, they will attend my private, non-socialist, conservative, pro-RKBA, practical, outdoor survival school.

History will focus on events that involved firearms rather than migration and tea parties.

Political science will be from a self-defense viewpoint.

Physics and chemistry will involve ballistics and reloading.

Biology is the outdoor survival course that will teach them what to eat and what to avoid.

Mathematics will include land navigation, ballistics tables, and basic cooking measurement conversions.

Phsyical Education would teach them the fundamentals of mountaineering and hiking.

Bringing firearms and ammunition to my school is highly encouraged. Leave the apple for the teacher at home and supplement with a non-vegetarian MRE. :D

V4Vendetta
March 7, 2006, 03:54 PM
"I suppose when I have kids, they will attend my private, non-socialist, conservative, pro-RKBA, practical, outdoor survival school. History will focus on events that involved firearms rather than migration and tea parties. Political science will be from a self-defense viewpoint. Physics and chemistry will involve ballistics and reloading. Biology is the outdoor survival course that will teach them what to eat and what to avoid. Mathematics will include land navigation, ballistics tables, and basic cooking measurement conversions. Phsyical Education would teach them the fundamentals of mountaineering and hiking. Bringing firearms and ammunition to my school is highly encouraged. Leave the apple for the teacher at home and supplement with a non-vegetarian MRE."


I wish I lived in Oregon.:(

Braden
March 7, 2006, 03:59 PM
As much as I've heard from this forum, I'm so glad that I've been home-schooled. I remember going to public school until 5th grade & dealing with other kids & teachers was just. I'm a loner. A nomad. A real life Solid Snake.

Ahhhh....home-schooled...so you have no social skills?? ;)

Oh wait....you answered the question for me:

Marriage is for fools & the rich. If you want a loyal companion, go with a dog.

:neener:

V4Vendetta
March 7, 2006, 04:51 PM
"Ahhhh....home-schooled...so you have no social skills??"

I have them. I just prefer to be alone with my PC & guns & dog:) .

As for the thing about my decision to not get married, I know 3 people who chose the wrong spouse & it bit them on the butt.

Case #1. Guy's wife cheated on him several times. He blew his brains out. Now his 2 kids under 10 years old are going to grow up without him:( .

Case #2. Guy gets framed for murder by a JBT DA & wife. Gets a 20 year prison stay.

Case #3. My aunts ex-husband. He beat her badly & didn't work or do anything except drink.

My dog would never leave me, never bite me, never frame me for murder. Good dog.:)

Braden
March 7, 2006, 05:15 PM
Uhhh...I was just kidding. :)

Case #4 - They lived happily ever after. ;)

MrTwigg
March 7, 2006, 05:25 PM
Get used to saying it.

I am putting my flame suit on now.:fire:

I’m not going to comment on the fact you are still a :cuss: minor and allegedly had contraband items in your possession or truck. Whatever.:banghead:

First I am not ‘The Grammar Police” but, when I read an illiterate rant like yours I have to say something. Most likely you won’t bother to read my whole post and just make a smarta** comment and your buddies will no doubt join you in flaming me.

What I will say is at 18 years of age you need to have a much better grasp of the English language. Things like spelling, grammar, punctuation and diction matter greatly in communicating.

I don’t often go off on folks like this but you :mad: need a reality check.

I strongly believe a parent or two in the Great State Of Texas needs to take YOU to the woodshed and convince you to do your homework, pay attention in class and learn how to join the rest of the working world. Perhaps your parents are millionaires and they have a trust fund set up to keep you in ammo ?

I happen to know several Texan’s and your words shame them. You can do better, it will mean a better life for you. Stop crying about your bad day and put your nose in a book.:neener:

mr_dove
March 7, 2006, 05:32 PM
I very nearly commented on all the horrible grammer and spelling but I didn't have my flame suit handy. Thanks for doing it for me. It was truly painful to read.

V4Vendetta
March 7, 2006, 05:44 PM
"Case #4 - They lived happily ever after."


Yeah right.:scrutiny: In addition to being a lone wolf, I'm a cynic.

Braden
March 7, 2006, 06:00 PM
And I'm a hopeless romantic optimist (although my wife would probably disagree about the "romantic" part). :D

Standing Wolf
March 7, 2006, 06:06 PM
...the parking lot across the street belongs to the county court house and am quite sure they might have some laws against that to

Heck, there are laws on every street corner nowadays.

What I will say is at 18 years of age you need to have a much better grasp of the English language. Things like spelling, grammar, punctuation and diction matter greatly in communicating.

I have to concur.

gunsmith
March 7, 2006, 06:15 PM
but that was the late 60's and the 70's.
I would have bought a gun if I could but my dad
would have warmed my butt with his "John Wayne belt".

Whatever you do son, don't throw the ammo!
you might poke someones eye out!:neener:

mister hankey
March 7, 2006, 06:51 PM
Personally I don't think haveing the K-9 sniff you car in the school parking lot is justified under the 4th Amendment. It is the same as stopping everyone on the road and giving manditory drug tests. If no crime has been committed then they have no reason to be searching for evidence. If the police had reason to believe that some kid was selling drugs on campus, then a search would be justified. This sounds like a regular every-day search and is total BS. They are just looking for reasons to get people in trouble which is the type of Police-State actions that the 4th Amendment is suppose to prevent.

However, keep in mind that you are a highschool student, under the age of 18 (I assume), you are NOT a US citizen. You are NOT subject to all the rights and privlages of the Constitution. You ARE under the direct authority of your parents and administrators. And most of all, you CAN be subject to all the penalties of a FULL citizen, as well as any penalties the school thinks up. So try and stay out of trouble until you are a US citizen, then you can fight for your rights.

By Thefabulousfink


am i reading that wrong or are people not US Citizens till there 18

TallPine
March 7, 2006, 07:12 PM
Well, I sure hope you didn't have any dangerous weapons in your car such as a lug wrench or a jack handle .... :rolleyes:

The world has gone completely nuts, and the schools are on the leading edge of it. I'm glad my kids are out of school - in fact, I'm pretty much glad that I'm not any younger and won't have to put up with this #$%^ for too many more years :banghead:

Thefabulousfink
March 7, 2006, 07:14 PM
I was a little over-zealous in that post, sorry:( . What I mean is that kids under the age of 18 do not have many of the rights of adults, most of the time this is to protect the kids. It is even worse at public schools. Anything on school property is subject to search and seizure at the discression of the administration. If the company that you worked for enacted half the policies that most public highschool have, you would most likely quit and probably sue. However, when kids under the age of 18 complain about their rights they are often just dissmissed.

That is why I say that if you are under the age of 18 you are not a FULL citizen entitled to the same rights and privlages. This is not what I believe, but what the government enforces.

Azrael256
March 7, 2006, 07:18 PM
I suppose when I have kids, they will attend my private, non-socialist, conservative, pro-RKBA, practical, outdoor survival school. Second. Dad (me) will carefully select broad stretches of wilderness for the kids to learn Earth sciences. History lessons will be taught at the Cumberland Gap, San Jacinto, Cold Harbor, and similar places. Math and lab science can be taught at the workbench and the shooting bench. Literature will be very carefully selected to provide my children with strong, positive role models who are better people than I am. Writing will be a constant, and I expect flawless grammar. Riding, shooting, hunting, scavenging, hiking, climbing, and skinning will be daily activities. We will have music, always. Good music. A man who cannot carry a tune is not fit to carry a rifle.

And I don't care what I have to sacrifice to do it. I might die of exhaustion at 50, but I'd rather die than subject my children to what schools are turning into.

V4Vendetta
March 7, 2006, 07:23 PM
"A man who cannot carry a tune is not fit to carry a rifle."

I guess instead of guns I'll have to take up knitting & go-fish:D Unless humming counts.

gezzer
March 7, 2006, 07:28 PM
First I am not ‘The Grammar Police” Wanna bet!:neener: :neener:

Gramma eletist mabey?

I HATE when sombody can only spell a word 1 way.

At least the kid is ahead he lives in TX not MA:what:

MrTwigg
March 7, 2006, 07:30 PM
If the company that you worked for enacted half the policies that most public highschool have, you would most likely quit and probably sue.

I cannot quote any statistics on this subject but I strongly believe every employee is hired “At Will”. This means, unless you are in a ( strong ) union or have a written contract guaranteeing you certain liberties in writing you employer can do pretty much whatever they want with you. :barf:
How am I so sure ? I’m more than twice your age. Been there, done that, ...before you were born.

Wait a few years, the realities of life will temper the exuberance of youth.:banghead:

Gramma eletist mabey?

I HATE when sombody can only spell a word 1 way.

At least I know my own language. I live in Massachusetts too, so what ? I'm no d*mm liberal ! I'm Republican, proud of it and a member of the John Birch Society as well. I know when to say please, thank you and when to shut up. This ain’t the time. Feel free to bastardize the language we speak; you’ll only display your own intelligence (Or lack of it.) to everyone here.

This forum is titled The High Road, thankfully more than half the discussions found here can be considered worthy of this title. The remainder (such as this thread) are far less so.

Elitist ?
Far from it. I am an immigrants son, first generation born in this country and largely self educated. I was on my own at 17 and a productive member of society. I served my country. I worked like a dog and saved my pennies. Now at 50 I am retired.. I do as I please. Today it pleases me to take an illiterate crybaby to task.

The internet is better than a car for anonymity and permits us to strike and runaway even faster. In a car or truck we are powerful, fast and strong. On the internet even the short, fat, old, and stupid can be six feet tall, have a full head of hair, a flat stomach and proclaim to be able to kick anybody’s *ss !

Get a life, no wait... get a dictionary !
:neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: :neener: back at 'cha.

bogie
March 7, 2006, 07:34 PM
When I was in high school, it was amazing the result of a few oregano fatties smoldering behind lockers had...

'Card
March 7, 2006, 08:03 PM
Don't pick on the poor kid about his spelling and his grammar.

The world needs ditch diggers too, you know?

- but back to the original point -

You guys think this sort of thing is bad? When my oldest son was in the sixth grade, his Principal wanted to suspend him for 3 days. The offense? He was drawing pictures of guns at school. You think I'm kidding? I'm being dead serious here. She called me in for a parent-teacher-student conference, without discussing the issue or her planned punishment, and just expected I'd go along with it and join her in scolding my son for this horrible crime he'd committed.

That was 6 years ago. My son still enjoys telling the story of how he got to watch his Dad chew out his Principal "like a Drill Sergeant jumping on a Buck Private" in her own office.

To make a long story short, he didn't get suspended, and she retired at the end of that school year. :)

V4Vendetta
March 7, 2006, 08:10 PM
I agree with CARD. There are plenty of worse things than bad grammar. My fathers writing is unreadable unless your him. My mother insists on writing me messages in a cursive way that looks like gibberish. I told them both that if they don't learn to write in english, I'll have to take away their phone privleges.:D

MrTwigg
March 7, 2006, 08:11 PM
I've had to caution my own son about this. He's getting his first .22 in a couple of weeks and he is beside himself with excitement. We live in a rural area here and there is no where near as much anti-gun/hunting sentiment here as there is inside "the hub" or within the area Rt128 circles around Boston.

Most folks around here are downright reasonable too. Glad he didn't get suspended.

Rabid Rabbit
March 7, 2006, 09:36 PM
I call BS I work for Customs and have been told by agents they do not cross train explosives with any other scent. Seems that they are concerned that if the dog signals they don't want to assume drugs and start searching and accidently set off the explosives. Watch how drug dogs react, they start pawing and trying to get to the drugs, explosive dogs sit or some other passive signal.

gunsmith
March 8, 2006, 04:31 AM
explosive dogs sit or some other passive signal.

I was illegally carrying my gun in Marin County ,CA and had to drop off some papers at the courthouse (I was a messenger/process server) and this deputy was walking a real cute yellow Lab so I walked over to ask if I could pet the doggie (I can't help it I love doggies) and as soon as I approached the dog sat down and the deputy gave me a strange look, I asked if I could pet him and he said sure...we talked a little and he told me he was in training for explosives, I guess he thought that since I was on a motorcycle that the dog reacted to the gas? do they do that? ...I was wondering if the deputy knew I was packing and didn't say anything??

V4Vendetta
March 8, 2006, 08:55 AM
"(I can't help it I love doggies)"


+1. :)

chas_martel
March 8, 2006, 10:02 AM
MrTwigg,

I don't understand your rant?

Are you saying education is important but recognizing
"rights" are not?

I guess you just don't understand since you don't live
in a place like Texas. I graduated from HS in 1981,
after receiving a great education and having carried guns to school.

Bartholomew Roberts
March 8, 2006, 11:02 AM
i dont even own a 20 gauge anymore long story short i am not aloowed to carry ammo in my truck it is against the rules they say now does this fall under the 2nd?

Even if the Second Amendment meant you could walk down main street with a loaded M16 that the government had given to you to keep at home, the school would still be entirely within its rights based on current law.

You have very minimal protections from the Bill of Rights as a student. You do not receive the same protection that would be accorded to an adult and the current courts give schools a GREAT deal of leeway in violating those rights to make sure schools are safe and secure.

belton-deer-hunter
March 8, 2006, 11:30 AM
well the way i look at this is that i am not only a student but also a 18 year old U.S. citizen and therefore i have the same rights as everyone else if the government says i can own a gun i can have it in/on my own property the school doesn't own my truck they should have m\no say so over what is in around or on my truck and since the school is funded by the government then they should have to follow the same rules.


p.s. if worse come to worse i will jsut switch to bows for a while nothing says i love you like a broad head

MrTwigg
March 8, 2006, 12:24 PM
rant : verb speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way. : noun a spell of ranting.
-DERIVATIVES ranter : noun.

MrTwigg,

I don't understand your rant?

Are you saying education is important but recognizing
"rights" are not?

I guess you just don't understand since you don't live
in a place like Texas. I graduated from HS in 1981,
after receiving a great education and having carried guns to school.

I wrote a concise, clear, succinct commentary. For further clarification see the post by Bartholomew Roberts directly under yours.

The recognition of rights is paramount in today's society. So is education.
I can understand the stated point of this thread being a "Rights" issue. However, that is not what I commented on.

Although I don't live there, I have been to the Great State of Texas several times, for business and for pleasure. Fantastic place with a rich history in this countries’s development.

As you seem to encourage my comment on the question of a possible second amendment violation I will comment on the general view of this thread.

Yes, at 18 one is considered to be a minor and as such has fewer expressed rights under modern law. However these same laws give minors a “protected status” and preferential treatment for a number of potential violations. Several other members have voiced similar opinions here.

No, this does not mean a minor is not a citizen.

The real issue in debate seems to be if a post consisting of a 256 word run on sentence fragment and a 156 word sentence fragment followed by a 101 word sentence fragment “sound like bull to any of yall?”

Read the entire thread, not just my post. It’s apparent the general opinion does indeed think it sounds like bull !


Excuse me, I’m gonna go shoot something now so I’ll feel better. :banghead: I’ve been wanting to pattern my BPS 10 ga.. Turkey season’s coming up soon.:D

Thefabulousfink
March 8, 2006, 12:50 PM
Thank you Bartholomew and Mr. Twigg,

Those were the points that I was trying to make; however, my eloquence may have been circumvented by my passion and for that I apologize. I do agree with Card, my youthful exuberance can get the better of me at times, but if it weren't for this, what would be the point of being young? Anyhow, I will defer to the statements made by those older and wiser than myself, but please do not discount my opinions simply as the rantings of an uninformed youth. For what I have said, while exaggerated by my enthusiasm, echos convictions that I hold dear.

PlayboyPenguin
March 8, 2006, 02:03 PM
I think some on here are too quick to knock public schools. Do you really want to live in a country where only those that can afford to pay can get a good education? If so there are alot of them out there. As for the school having the right to search and seize, it does not matter if we agree with it. It is something we have to respect. I do not like paying taxes either but I know it is something I have to do. Part of life is learning to respect certain rules. If we teach children that it is okay to disregard any rule we do not personally believe in then what are we really teaching them? When you are at school do not take firearms or firearm accessories with you. If by some chance you do by accident then admit your mistake and accept the repercussions. Do not become indignant about it and try to lay the fault on the rules themselves. Taking responsibilty for your own actions and abiding by rules you do not agree with (as long as they do not pass into tthe excessively oppresive range) is an exercise in character. I would hope that people that feel themselves "one of the good guys" would find upright character an important trait. It might be nice to teach our children ourselves if we do not like public schools, but in reality who has that kind of time. And do we feel that we have the qualifications and knowledge to give them the same advantages an organized, time tested education can give them? Or are we sitting them up for a life of trailer living and digging ditches? I can sum it all up in two statements. First, get everything you can from your education. If this means having to follow some rules do so. Second, put our personal ingignities and bruised social attitudes aside for the sake of our children.

'Card
March 8, 2006, 02:31 PM
PP: "Do you really want to live in a country where only those that can afford to pay can get a good education?"
Of course not, but I wouldn't mind living in a country where the tax dollars I contribute to the general fund are used to provide my children with a quality education, instead of indoctrinating them in the current over-hyped 'fad of the moment' concerns of the school staff and administration.

Contrary to what you appear to believe, the two (public schools and a quality education) are not mutually exclusive.

Hell, my oldest son is 18 now and he'll be graduating from High School this year. In spite of 12 years of science classes of one sort or another, the kid probably couldn't define osmosis for you - but by God he can name every animal on the endangered species list. Seriously. Have you looked at a science textbook lately? These kids aren't getting taught science at all anymore. They get 12 years of environmentalist propaganda shoved down their throats.

My youngest son? He'll be homeschooled. I used to think that sort of thing was only for religious whackjobs and survivalist fruitcakes, but at this point I'm convinced that in spite of the expense and the inconvenience, it's the only way for me to make sure my kid doesn't end up brainwashed and ignorant.

belton-deer-hunter
March 8, 2006, 03:27 PM
PlayboyPenguin i dont want you to think that i am trying to skip punishment on this the punishment was already handed down and served so i jsut bit my tounge and did what had to be done but that still does not mena i have to agree with the rules.

belton-deer-hunter
March 8, 2006, 03:28 PM
PlayboyPenguin i dont want you to think that i am trying to skip punishment on this the punishment was already handed down and served so i jsut bit my tounge and did what had to be done but that still does not mean i have to agree with the rules.

PlayboyPenguin
March 8, 2006, 03:39 PM
Hell, my oldest son is 18 now and he'll be graduating from High School this year. In spite of 12 years of science classes of one sort or another, the kid probably couldn't define osmosis for you - but by God he can name every animal on the endangered species list. Seriously. Have you looked at a science textbook lately?
Yes, when I graduated my teaching fields where k-12 general sciences and art and I have kept myself current on the curriculum in public schools because of my niece and nephew. I hate to break it to you but osmosis is covered. Endangered species if metioned at all is in passing. Your son, like anyone else in the public school system, will get out of it what they are willing to put into it. It comes down to increased effort equals increased return but I guess it is easier to blame the schools. I graduated from public school and went on to graduate from college with honors. My cousin was home schooled and is unemployed for about 6yrs now. I wpould suggest that you get more involved in your public school system and really learn what is going on there. That is if you are not already since I do not know the level of your involvment. I know most parents I dealt with thought their involvment should be limited to coming down and yelling when they felt their child was taught something they did not personally believe. Join the PTA, volunteer for trips and socials, help as a teachers aid, etc. I hate it when people just believe what they hear on righty radio or fox news and then want to blame the schools when their children fail to strive. The people that work as teachers are heros. Plain and simple. They do a hard job for almost no pay and then have to be blamed by both the right and the left for being too far center.

'Card
March 8, 2006, 04:11 PM
My wife is a teacher, in a public school, and a damned good one. Spare me the grandstanding and the pontification, OK? I know what parent involvement is. I know what the curriculum looks like, and since each state and even each county has their own curriculum, I might even know more about what my kids are exposed to than you do - although I realize that entire concept makes you uncomfortable.

I know the kinds of obstacles that the administration, political system, and lousy parenting throws into the mix to interfere with my wife doing her job, and with my kids having a positive learning experience.

So having seen all of this, up close and personal, as both the spouse of a faculty member, and the parent of a child (neither of which being positions or perspectives that you hold yourself) I have decided to pull them both out of any involvement with the ongoing, unmitigated disaster that is posing as a public school system.

So, would you like to tell me again that I don't know what I'm talking about?

Correia
March 8, 2006, 05:02 PM
Not even addressing the issues of rights for minors, 4th amendment issues, or even public schooling, I do have to say one thing.

I totally agree with Mr.Twigg's opinion about belton's writing.

Damn, boy. That is possibly one of the hardest to read posts that I've ever seen on the internet. And that is saying a lot. For the love of John Moses Browning, learn to use punctuation.

Nobody will ever take you serious in life if you can't communicate. If you sound like a yokel, don't be surprised when you're treated like one.

MrTwigg
March 8, 2006, 05:11 PM
Thefabulousfink, 'Card - your postings on this thread as well as others have been both articulate and passionate.

I doff my Stetson to you.

belton-deer-hunter, I know I went off on you but please continue to improve your education. Life will be much less of a struggle. There is more to life than hunting and guns. Find balance.



Oh yeah, I need a tighter choke. Back to the range tomorrow.

PlayboyPenguin
March 8, 2006, 06:38 PM
'Card, I am not attacking the job your wife does or your son. I am very willing to listen to where the curriculum of your school is lacking. I am not becoming defensive or angry and I do believe I clearly stated that I did not know the level of your involvment in your son's education. What do you do to be involved? You said your high school age son does not understand osmosis. I would be willing to bet that was covered. As for lesson plans being different from state to state I think most requirements are federally set now as part of the un-funded, so called "No child left behind" act. I seriously doubt class time was spent on teaching what animals are endangered. I would love to know what class that was and see the class description. I am just not a fan of blanket statements being used to slam public schools. I think alot of people out there better wake up and realize how lucky they are to have them and the teachers that work there.

Spec ops Grunt
March 8, 2006, 07:20 PM
V4, I agree with you on marrige, for know anyway.

Belton, use punctuation. Park somewhere else.

Now for the searches, their unreasonable. Children should have the same rights as adults.

TallPine
March 8, 2006, 07:34 PM
Do not become indignant about it and try to lay the fault on the rules themselves.
The :cuss: school rules about "weapons" today are ridiculous. A car itself is a deadly weapon, not to mention tire changing tools which could be used in a violent manner if a student were so inclined. And they make a big deal about ammo or a knife in a tackle box ... :rolleyes:

Out here where kids may have to drive 25 miles to school (one way) it is common to carry lots of tools. I suppose a screwdriver or crescent wrench would also be considered deadly weapons and grounds for suspension/expulsion...?

gezzer
March 8, 2006, 10:51 PM
Duh bad spellin and aaaaall I beat you to retirement by 1 year :neener: :neener: And don't live in MA

I like taking spelling and grammar nazis to task.

Bartholomew Roberts
March 9, 2006, 09:44 AM
well the way i look at this is that i am not only a student but also a 18 year old U.S. citizen and therefore i have the same rights as everyone else

You are free to look at it any way you please; but that isn't the way the law looks at it and it won't be the way the legal system treats it if you decide to live by your interpretation.

trickyasafox
March 9, 2006, 10:45 AM
yea i know that school ordinances against such things can get you in some hot water. any firearm related paraphinalia was grounds for expulsion in my upstate NY HS. other districts may have been more forgiving, i don't know.

remember: you do check a fair few of your rights at the door as soon as you enter school grounds. the ability to search you and your property increases exponentially under the guise that the school is working for the greater good of the student body. they can sensor what you wear, what you say, what you write, and what you have in your pockets.

im not looking to get flamed, just pointing out the reality of HS, i graduated in 03 so im not too far removed from it.

Spec ops Grunt
March 10, 2006, 09:40 PM
My Grandpa has a scrapyard by my high school. Its just a short 10 minute walk from the scrapyard to the school.

Thats where I'll park.

50caliber123
March 10, 2006, 10:22 PM
You want to talk about getting in trouble for something stupid, this happened my senior year of highschool. I had a Chevette, a small car with a hatchback. You could see anything in the hatchback's rear window. I'm very aware of rules that schools have, and never leave guns or ammunition, or knives, for that matter, in my car. I do leave targets, and I liked to save old ones that I was proud of, like real nice groups. One day, about 11AM, an office atteb=ndent shows up in my class looking for me. I am "needed" down in the office. Apparently, someone saw the paper targets, which are merely orange and black bullseyes, in my car, with the bullet holes in them. I was told that I had to surrender my keys while they searched my car (1987 Chevettes are too ancient for the police lockpicks, apparently). They found nothing else, but I was told that I am violating school rules by having pieces of paper that have big circles and bullet holes in them in my car. They confiscated my targets and told me not to bring targets to school ever again. I was unhappy. Since when are those bullseye targets a threat to school security?

dzimmerm
March 11, 2006, 07:41 AM
If you want to effect changes in your local school get yourself nominated as a candidate for the local board of education.

Most Boards of Education are composed of want to be politicians who are using that position as a stepping stone to local and state government offices.

If you actually had a Board of Education composed of 20 somethings then the schools in that district would be quite interesting. :) .

In the past most 20 somethings don't want to be part of the system in order to change it. By the time they become 30 or 40 somethings they have probably lost the fire to change the situation. 30 and 40 somethings have also lost the recent experience of what the current schools are like.

Just my $ .02 worth.

dzimmerm

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