Hotel Clerk Shoots Robber (video)

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3AA_dgRdDhk

Police: Motel Clerk Shoots Would-Be Robber
Man To Be Charged With Aggravated Robbery

UPDATED: 8:50 am EDT August 7, 2005

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Police said a desk clerk shot a man who was attempting to rob an east side motel on Saturday night.

Officers said that shortly before 9:30 p.m., a man walked into the Super 8 Motel, located at 2055 Brice Rd., showed a gun and demanded money.

Police said the desk clerk on duty then shot the alleged robber, Antoine Stephens.

Stephens, 20, was transported to Grant Medical Center and was in serious condition on Sunday morning, NBC 4 reported.

Police said he would be charged with aggravated robbery.

The motel clerk's name was not released. It was unclear as to whether he would be charged.

Source: http://www.nbc4i.com/news/4819485/detail.html

Clerk was apparently not charged according to 19-page discussion here (http://www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=443057).

Quote from same thread referenced above:
It was .40 caliber golden saberes in the 165 grain loading. 3 out of 3 shots hit the perp, although the exact location of the hits were never told to him. He went up and looked at him for a minute when the police dispatcher asked were he was hit, but his shirt covered the wounds. He didn't want to touch him or anything. The police were very, very polite and profesional. The attitude was very positive, and since this wasn't his first hold up, I think they were happy to be able to catch him and put him away. The police bought him something to drink and gave him ciggerettes. They also gave him his gun back as soon as they were done with it, and in good condition.

[Capital Punishment]

This is how all robberies should end.

[KaceCoyote]

Outstanding! That was great shooting!

[Lupinus]

no sympathy to the thug but....

he was shot as he was aparently running out of the place, so I have to wonder if the shooter will be charged

[DKSuddeth]

It looks like the thug didn't take off until he got hit with the first one. The clerk did the right thing, shoot to stop/drop. He didn't delay between shots. I don't see any charges happening.

[JakeMate]

Can't believe the woman with the baby didn't get the f@#k down or outta there sooner. Dumb ass.

[Lupinus]

DK-
if thats the case then my thinking changes, though for me at least it played kind of crappy and seems like shots weren't fired untill after the guy started running, kind of like saw a gun and bolted and as he bolted shots were fired. Least thats how it looked on my end, for someone it played better for might be different.

Don't get me wrong, thug got what he deserved, but with the legal system these days if it happened as it played on my end I wouldn't be surprised if there is something filed.

[english kanigit]

He might not have been charged but was he fired or not?

[redneckrepairs]

without comment here is downloadable file for the vid http://rapidshare.de/files/14946166/rooftopvotershoot.wmv.html

[John G]

Look out baby! :what:

[Taurus 66]

He had the presence of mind to know a baby was close to his line of fire and took appropriate action. This man's an ace, even under the pressure of life and death. If it is possible for anyone here to keep us apprised of this, please send us updates if the perp is ever caught. It looks like he took one (or two) in the back, so he mighta showed up at a hospital with a different story.

[Jim March]

The perp is IN custody - he was dropped at the scene right there in the doorway. Notice how the clerk/CCW guy points the gun at the ground for a bit at an angle while looking through the sights - he's covering the downed goblin but doesn't fire at that point.

So far I've seen the youtube version only, but in several replays I think the clerk managed to keep his own fire at LEAST two feet to the right of the baby and possibly as much as three feet. As the mother finally shifted out of the line of fire the clerk stepped around her and continued firing WHILE avoiding putting mother or baby in the line of fire.

This was absolutely brilliant shooting. He did NOT fixate on the target while failing to consider bystanders. Note his footwork, he has enough of his concentration split on mom and baby to protect them while maintaining accurate fire.

OutSTANDing.

What else...he kept his eyes closely on the money while doing a SLOW but stealthy draw. Interesting and damned effective.

I'm downloading the larger version now...let's see if there's anything else noteworthy.

[c_yeager]

I dont know how smart this really was. The good guy didnt actually move to avoid the woman and child. If she hadnt stepped aside he may well have been shooting right through them. He also used his female coworker for cover, which im not sure I approve of. All in all I think this might have been a situation where it was better to hand over the money and then play it by ear. Too many people standing in the line of fire to shoot it out IMHO.

Thats my only problem with this. Personally, if they had given him the money, and the clerk followed him out and shot him in the open without anyone else around I would be totally comfortable with that. Frankly he could have shot him in the back for all I care.

[RS3RS]

He also used his female coworker for cover, which im not sure I approve of.

Well, he used her as visual cover to draw his gun, which I think is brilliant. You can't draw the thing with the guy watching, so might as well put that side of your body behind the fat chick. Since he wasn't standing behind her as cover as he was firing or anything I don't really see a problem with it - I think it was pretty smart.

[Vex]

I've stayed here!

A few years ago when I was entering the USMC, they put us up in this hotel for the night after the ASVAB and before the physical checkup, etc. Not a bad hotel, really.

[John G]

I can't be sure without sound, but it looks like he whispers something to his co-worker just before he draws. Maybe "get down?"

--oh, and at the start of the video he's on the computer. It would be funny to see an enhancement close-up of the screen and see him on thehighroad.org! "BRB, Gotta take out the trash..."

[XDn00b101]

It's too bad that piece of shi* lived

[Ryder]

This badguy ran into his worst nightmare... According to one of the links I followed the shooter is an NRA intructor. Ouch!

[Kentak]

I'm assuming the first shot was taken off camera shortly after he drew his gun and was moving to the right behind the female clerk. I only saw two muzzle flashes after that, as the perp was leaving.

Obviously, I'm glad the incident turned out the way it did, with the scumbag absorbing all the lead.

I have no idea how I would have reacted in the same situation, so this is not to be taken as criticism of the good guy's action, just after the fact commentary and food for discussion.

The guy was sharp. He turned his body and used his coworker to conceal the fact he was drawing. He was moving in a direction that would put the others out of the line of fire.

Now the "but" part. Should he have continued to fire as the bad guy was retreating? I would like to know if the BG dropped the gun after the first hit or not. If he still had the gun, you could make an argument that he was still a threat--he could have turned and returned fire at any moment. Second, I was bothered by the fact that the follow up shots were awfully close to the dumb-ass mother and her baby. I know how the tunnel vision thing works. Once the clerk made the decision to shoot, he was focused on putting shots on the perp, but, OMG, imagine if he had hit the kid.

Anyway, the perp got what he deserved.

K

[only1asterisk]

I see "retreat" several times. Looks to me like heading for cover and concealment. It just so happens that the best cover is behind him. Do you know that he's going to make for the next county when he hits that door? I don't. I assume he's a criminal and may open fire indiscriminately in my general direction when he gets behind cover. Of course, I also assume that the BG has a gun. I didn't see one.


David

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The thread I posted earlier has several posts from the shooter in this incident; complete with picture of him posting to verify that it is in fact him. According to that thread:

The shooter in this video was not charged and was not even sued in civil court (yet). The shooting took place August 5, 2005.

When he draws and steps around his female coworker, the bad guy had a .45LC revolver pointed at the ground down by his side. The clerk (an NRA instructor) gave him a verbal warning to drop the gun and the man responded by raising it instead. At this point the clerk ducked back reflexively and started shooting. According to the clerk, the woman is not as near to his line of sight as she appears in the video and the whole incident from the time he draws until the bad guy is down lasts 2.9 seconds.

[what42]

I don't believe the guys line of fire is as close to the woman as the comera angel appears to show. The camera is high to the left of the action which makes everything appear closer together.

[SSN Vet]

If he was hiding....he would have never got out of his chair....or worse, crawled under the counter.

All movement is towards BG.....first on his feet (standing up like a man)....then to right (feigning to help open safe....but really positioning to draw).....then draw & more to right and into firing position to confront BG......then he keeps moving right as shooting.

BG does appear to be fleeing.....but where to.....the lobby or parking lot to take a hostage??

Time from draw to bang, bang, bang is pretty darn fast!

Mother with child moves out of way pretty quickly I thought....have to be careful not to interpret the "pause to buffer the download" as lapsed time.

I wonder why he runs back to the left side of the counter before coming back out to cover BG.

Maybe he hit an alarm or something.

I bet he and the co-worker talked about possible scenarios often....she doesn't seem to surprised.

I only hope I'd do 1/2 as good if in the same position.

[JamisJockey]

Nobody is mentioning right before the shooting starts, everyone jumps, including the GG. It almost looks like the BG takes a shot or maybe made a gesture that scared everyone.
I'd say its a mostly good shoot. His line of fire wasn't great, with the woman/baby next to the BG. However, if he truely got 3 of 3 hits that speaks volumes to his ability.
Female worker does a nice job of getting the dumbass woman with baby behind cover after the shoot. She just stands there dumbfounded until chubby gets control of her.

[beerslurpy]

Happy endings for everyone that deserved one. Glad he got his gun back.

[crofrog]

With some of the post here, you have to wonder who's side your on. The ????bird got his, no good guys got hurt. Make another mark in the CCW holders collective gun belt.

[JohnKSa]

Looks to me like heading for cover and concealment.I agree. This is all happening pretty fast and once I was forced to shoot I think I'd be very disinclined to immediately cease fire just because the guy headed for cover. The kicker for me would be whether or not he dropped his gun in the scramble or retained it.

...but, after the draw, things happened SO fast, I doubt you'd have any time to do anything but react.

[xjmox14x]

It happened 7 months ago, if he hasn't been charged yet, it's likely he won't be.

[kbheiner7]

That was smooth - kudos to the good guy!

[c_yeager]

With some of the post here, you have to wonder who's side your on. The ????bird got his, no good guys got hurt. Make another mark in the CCW holders collective gun belt.

What are you talking about? I see two people, including myself, questioning his tactics, I dont think anyone has called it a bad shoot.

[Habalabam]

Kudos to the clerk for his act while slowly unholstering his gun. His stance appeared natural leaning over the shoulder of his coworker and him using only one hand to help with the money seemed natural.

Things would likely have turned ugly if he had pulled out the gun while sitting.

Things would likely turned ugly if his coworker had reacted in a way he didn't anticipate.

Absolutely no respect for the woman with the baby. I don't care of fat or immobile you are or how unlikely it is that you can get get back on your feet without help... when something like this happens, you DROP and shield your kid.

To be a curious spectator to an ongoing shooting happening 2-3 feet away from you while you are holding a baby..... I'm speechless.

At least, that's what it looks like. My computer at work doesn't play video that well.

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Retreating or not the thug could have returned fire. IMHO Clerk is in the clear.

[gunsmith]

and very clever, he waited untill he had a clear shot and thank God he kept on shooting because the skell probably would have killed the witnesses, and by shooting three times (and hitting the target) in a matter of seconds he kept on shooting untill the threat was stopped
which is what your supposed to do...also if he had only shot once the skell may have shot the bystanders

[Rickstir]

For all of those who don't carry with one in the pipe, watch this carefully. If you had a semi-auto, could you have jacked one in? I doubt it. Good shoot IMHO.

[1 old 0311]

This happened in Colombus Ohio. Isn't that the city that banned ALL magazines over 10 rounds? I think this is why the NRA cancled their Convention there a few years ago. Surprised they didn't charge the clerk.

Kevin

[EBF]

It was a mistake IMO to engage the target. Too many bystanders in close proximity.

I could be wrong, but it looks like the BG got one shot off before the GG could fire. It's hard to tell with no audio.

It looks like the BG fired because he saw the GG's gun.

Had that first shot from the BG struck that mother or child or the other clerk...no one here would be praising the GG. And the clerk would have very likely been charged.

He got very lucky IMO.

With that said...am I glad the BG was shot? Absolutely.

Did the GG diplay sound tactics while drawing his weapon and after his weapon was drawn? Absolutely.

But in that particular case, I think it was just too risky to draw with a mother and child and one bystander in very close proximity.

Had it just been the GG and BG there or even the GG, his co-worker and the BG...I would be OK with it. But the mother and child there made me think otherwise.

[what42]

I'd recommend you go and read the post from the guy in the video (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=443057&page=7) over at ar15.com. It's about half way down the page. He explains the situation pretty well and easily convinced me that it was a good shoot.

According to him (and the video), the robber never got a shot off. The guy behind the counter pulled his gun and was in the middle of yelling for the robber to drop his weapon when the robber raised his gun. This was when you saw everyone duck and then the good guy popped back up and started firing.

The robber made his choice when he decided to attempt to rob the hotel and further made his choice when he pointed a gun at the innocdent people. I say he got what he chose and what he deserved.

[EBF]

What42...thanks for the correction. I was'nt sure if the BG got a shot off or not.

Nonetheless, I feel the clerk should have kept his weapon holstered. The BG only became aggressive after he was confronted by the clerk. Had the clerks simpy handed the money over...I think it would have been safer for all involved (namely the mother and child).

Obviously, we'll never know how the situation would have unfolded had the BG not been confronted. There's always the possibility of him taking hostages or even worse...but chances are, once he got the money he would have left and no shots would have been fired.

I agree, the would-be robber got what he deserved. But there was just too high of a risk of bystanders being injured for me to justify the clerk's actions.

[JohnKSa]

The BG only became aggressive after he was confronted by the clerk. Robbing someone with a firearm qualifies as pretty aggressive in my book.

IMO, relying on the goodwill of violent criminals is not wise.

The clerk had an opportunity to end the situation and he did so with alacrity. No one was hurt which may or may not have been the outcome had they simply waited to see if the gunman was going to be a "good criminal" or a "bad criminal".

[dasmi]

Excellent work.

[dasmi]

Nonetheless, I feel the clerk should have kept his weapon holstered. The BG only became aggressive after he was confronted by the clerk. Had the clerks simpy handed the money over...I think it would have been safer for all involved (namely the mother and child).
Are you out of your mind?
Armed robbery isn't agression?

[EBF]

Dasmi...from what I saw in the video...the BG was standing there, gun by his side, waiting for the money until he was confronted. Then he raised his weapon.

If you'd like to split hairs...he was originally aggressive...and then became extremely aggressive after he was confronted.

Nonetheless...it was tough call to make. I'm definitely not going to fault the clerk. He felt the need to fire. He was there, we were'nt. He had to make his decision very quickly. It was a difficult situation...it's pretty easy to sit here and pick the video apart but, and second guess. Much much easier than actually having to face it first hand.

Thankfully for all those involved it turned out nearly perfect.

Perfect would have been the BG leaving in a bag.

[sturmruger]

It looks like a good shoot to me. While it sucks that the woman and her daughter were sitting there I think taking the bg out was the correct reaction.

[crofrog]

Are you out of your mind?
Armed robbery isn't agression?


It's not worth the time, some people here just don't have the proper mindset.

[High Planes Drifter]

Outstanding job. The only thing that would have made it better is if th ebg would have left in a bag. Now he will just heal, then go back out and do it again tougher, and possibly more dangerous.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Tough situation. Any time you comply with a robber, you are betting on the humanity of a person who is threatening to kill you over money. I can definitely imagine situations where I would prefer to take the more immediate risk of a gunfight if I were presented a good opportunity like this clerk was, rather than miss the opportunity and hope things do not get worse.

[c_yeager]

Tough situation. Any time you comply with a robber, you are betting on the humanity of a person who is threatening to kill you over money. I can definitely imagine situations where I would prefer to take the more immediate risk of a gunfight if I were presented a good opportunity like this clerk was, rather than miss the opportunity and hope things do not get worse.


To play the contrarian, by shooting in this situation the shooter was banking the lives of three people on the marksmanship of the robber. One errant round and your looking at either a dead woman or a dead child. I wouldnt want to deal with the situation, there isnt a good way out of it. Things did work out OK in the end, but it was near thing either way.

[psyopspec]

There's always the possibility of him taking hostages or even worse...but chances are, once he got the money he would have left and no shots would have been fired.

There's always the possibility...Chances are...

If you live your life by the odds of something occuring, you need not carry a gun with more than 3.5 rounds in it. Hell, you need not carry a gun at all, since chances are you'll never need to use it.

[AJ Dual]

The shooter is "RooftopVoter" and he posts over on www.gunsnet.net .

You can search more details on his story up there. The robber had a .45 colt revolver. IIRC (check his posts on Gunsnet) RooftopVoter was carrying a compact Glock .40 loaded with Golden Sabers. He shot the perp four times, and he fell in the doorway out of sight of the camera.

The story is getting attention on all the gun boards now, because the perp's trial ended when he plead guilty and took a deal from the DA. And he can now go into specifics of what happened. RooftopVoter was not charged, and said all his experiences with the DA's and the Police were very positive. They were very happy he took him out. He received his gun back in good condition once the trial ended, the only reason they kept it was that it was evidence against the perp in his trial.

Aside from working at the hotel where the attempted robbery took place, he is also a CCW instructor in his state.

The woman with the child was not in his immediate line of fire, according to him, they were at least one yard to the side, the angle of the security camera just makes it look like she was in the way. Also, range safety/etiquette is one thing, when it's your life, you take the shot you have. She was very thankful.

Since then, that woman has actually contacted RooftopVoter about CCW training and getting her own permit!

Not shabby...

Rooftop Voter attended the trial of the armed robber as he was to be called as a witness. (never took the stand because of the plea deal...) He wore a Glock shirt to court. (Now that takes some stones... LOL!) He didn't know it at the time, but he was sitting just a few feet away from the robber's family. He hadn't been identified yet, but when the DA mentioned something like: "...And when one of the victims working the counter, Mr. RooftopVoter, drew his legally carried Glock .40 handgun and fired four times..." He could hear the entire family turn, and he could feel their eyes on him. He didn't mention the perp's family being overtly hostile though. I get the sense they were mostly in shock the perp did it in the first place.

The saddest thing is that the perp/robber had no priors. He was actually a college student at the time. He's going to be in his mid-thirties when he gets out of prison.

[KriegHund]

Im glad it all worked out.

Should he have continued to fire as the bad guy was retreating?

YES.

[Manedwolf]

I have to wonder what "retreat" now means in such instances.
I would HOPE that if the BG still has the gun, that you can still shoot them. Otherwise, how do you know they're not just running for cover, and intend to shoot back around the corner at you, or from the side of the door?

That's a great video, too. It shows just HOW fast everything happens.

[Maxwell]

Any time you comply with a robber, you are betting on the humanity of a person who is threatening to kill you over money.

+1
The robber made his choice long in advance, and apparently his humanity was not affected by the child and two unarmed women when he walked in.

Seems to me like the glock-nut saw an oppertunity to retake the initiative and played for it. Maybe things would have been fine if he didnt act... or maybe not.
One things for sure, if he didnt shoot then that robber would have gotten away to rob again. Maybe even return to the same business or kill someone in a future attack.

The young man was wrong to attack a store, no right would have been done by letting him get away with it.

[GoBrush]

I call this a good shoot and that lady in front of the counter an idiot guy walks in pulls a gun to rob the place and she stands there like nothing is happening.

3 out of 4 hits

NOT

3 out of 3

Dont get me wrong this guy did a fabulous job but on one of his shots drilled the top of the door jam. Watch the video and watch the top of the jam. If you pause the video in just the right spot you can see the muzzle angled up and the dust poof coming off of the door jam. I bring this up because hundreds have seen this video and out of the posts I have read no one saw it. Goes to show how people can see different things. I also agree with the post that said the first shot was probably out of screen and if it was 4 total shots fired.

Dont believe media reports about shots fired they rarely get any thing right.

[Duramaximum]

Nice shootin' Tex!

[silverlance]

a guy gets hit with 3 rounds of .40 GS and is still good enough to plead guilty?

i wonder where he got hit?

should he have kept shooting as the bg ran back? of course. think about it - 3 hits, still alive. clearly, one cannot simply expect that a single first shot can stop a given threat.

[crofrog]

Dont get me wrong this guy did a fabulous job but on one of his shots drilled the top of the door jam. Watch the video and watch the top of the jam. If you pause the video in just the right spot you can see the muzzle angled up and the dust poof coming off of the door jam. I bring this up because hundreds have seen this video and out of the posts I have read no one saw it. Goes to show how people can see different things. I also agree with the post that said the first shot was probably out of screen and if it was 4 total shots fired.

We didn't belive the media reports that is what the shooter posted over at AR15 .com in his AAR.

He said he got 3 for 3. The dust you saw was from the muzzle blast and noise in the confined space.

[carlrodd]

kudos to this guy. he exhibited an unusual dergree of control of the situation. i understand the compulsion to analyze what was done and what should or should not have been done, but i just ask this question...who here has been in such a situation? if you have not had a gun pointed at you, or been shot at, it's very easy to analyze. once you have, you'll realize that instinct takes over...fight or flight. and if it's fight, then usually it's on like donkey kong. there is no telling what a determined, armed person might do in a life or death, self defense situation. there is a reason that you can often read about someone emptying a whole magazine in a self defense situation; there is a reason the army tries to drill shot placement and controlled firing into its combat troops......it's simply NOT natural to be controlled in these sorts of situations. the guy done good.....great. the only thing that's a shame is that he didn't get a melon shot.

[Daniel Flory]

Somebody give that guy a medal!

And as for "shooting in the back", if I were in a gunfight, I might move backwards to seek cover and keep shooting back. I would just assume that someone moving backwards is doing the same until it is clear they are getting the hell outta Dodge.

[Double Naught Spy]

Jim March said,
The perp is IN custody - he was dropped at the scene right there in the doorway. Notice how the clerk/CCW guy points the gun at the ground for a bit at an angle while looking through the sights - he's covering the downed goblin but doesn't fire at that point.

So far I've seen the youtube version only, but in several replays I think the clerk managed to keep his own fire at LEAST two feet to the right of the baby and possibly as much as three feet. As the mother finally shifted out of the line of fire the clerk stepped around her and continued firing WHILE avoiding putting mother or baby in the line of fire.

You must have a better version of the video. I can't tell whether the shooter is looking through his sights or not when he is pointing his gun at the downed bad guy.

As for shooting off to the side of the mother and baby, whether 2 mm, 2 feet, or two miles, the salient point is that they were not hit.

c_yeager said,
The good guy didnt actually move to avoid the woman and child. If she hadnt stepped aside he may well have been shooting right through them. He also used his female coworker for cover, which im not sure I approve of.

I can't say that I could tell that he moved to avoid the mother and baby either. As for using his coworker (regardless of sex) for cover or concealment, that was just as much her doing as his. She wasn't taking any evasive action and so he went by her just like he would go by a tree. He did manage to help preclude any of the good folks from getting shot by the BG.

Kentak said,
Now the "but" part. Should he have continued to fire as the bad guy was retreating? I would like to know if the BG dropped the gun after the first hit or not. If he still had the gun, you could make an argument that he was still a threat--he could have turned and returned fire at any moment. Second, I was bothered by the fact that the follow up shots were awfully close to the dumb-ass mother and her baby. I know how the tunnel vision thing works. Once the clerk made the decision to shoot, he was focused on putting shots on the perp, but, OMG, imagine if he had hit the kid.

So what if the robber dropped his gun after being shot and the clerk kept shooting. Just because the robber dropped the one known gun does not mean he wasn't carrying another or that he wasn't still a threat.

If you want to play the "but" and "what if" games, then ask yourself, what if the clerk had not taken action, maybe the robber would have shot the mother child, and clerks. He sure as hell wasn't brining in Girlscout cookies to sell.

SSN Vet said,
All movement is towards BG.....first on his feet (standing up like a man)....then to right (feigning to help open safe....but really positioning to draw).....then draw & more to right and into firing position to confront BG......then he keeps moving right as shooting.

Standing up like a man? Just how do men stand up? Are you suggesting that if he remained seated that he would be like a woman? Standing up wasn't because he was a man. Gimme a break. He stood because he needed to move to a place of concealment to draw. He would have looked unnatural and stupid rolling in the chair (if it had casters) or crawling to a place to draw.

Both standing and advancing on the bad guy are potentially problematic. It would well be argued that by standing up, the clerk made the mistake of presenting a much larger target to the bad guy. Also, closing ground on the bad guy increases the danger to the good guy. Assuming Jim March is right and the clerk was looking through his sights at the downed back guy as he went outside, then it appears that he failed to scan the area for additional bad guys. Note that he went from a place of greater safety (indoors) to less safety (outdoors)

I bet he and the co-worker talked about possible scenarios often....she doesn't seem to surprised.

Wow, I guess he and the mother with child also discussed possibile scenarios often as well and she didn't seem particularly surprised either.