[John G]

I got this image from the Army Times website.

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/041603front6.jpg

The fellas were rounding up looters at a burned-out bank. Looks like one of our boys is packin' an ancient .45.

[bogie]

Look at the hammer.

[riverdog]

Check out the gloves; besides aviators, who wears Nomex gloves? I don't think those are issue for infantry. SF?

That may be a MEU-SOC 1911 which makes the owner a Marine.

[John G]

Vehicle crewmen get nomex gloves too. I was 11b, and lots of us had them, they're just lighter and more flexible than the cold weather gloves.

Just because they're not issued doesn't mean you can't get them. I know one guy who grabbed a pair from a C-130 crew on his way out the door.:D

[Sgt]

That could also be a "personal" weapon....don't think it don't happen.......

It looks more like a Combat Commander than a MEU/SOC....barrel looks shorter than 5"....correct me if I'm wrong.....

Semper Fi, Sgt

[John G]

Most civilian news outlets seem to interchange "soldier" and "marine" all the time, but the Army Times usually gets it right. The caption describes this as a marine. Here's another pic from the same story, looks like they're wearing nomex masks?

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/041603front5.jpg

[Jeff White]

The pistol is a MEU-SOC 1911A1 and they are Force Recon Marines. MICH helmets, FSBE webbing and M4A1s. All makes them Force Recon.

Jeff

[John G]

Here's another pic, though its blurry, I think you can see a mounted light? Looks like they're taking care of bid-ness.

http://www.armytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/041603front7.jpg

[George Hill]

Note the beavertail... NOT GI ISSUE.

Not unless those cats have a really KICK BUTT armorer in the unit.
:)

Personal weapon, confiscated weapon, issued weapon... could all be the case.

Also note the finger...
Propper.


Good photo.

[beckrodgers]

Nice pictures you folks are rite on top of it, I have read certain marine unit kept the 1911 .45 ,army units as well,also saw an iraqi with a 1911 on nbc nite ly news going against the looting etc. Thanks

[Andrew Wyatt]

MEU soc's have beavertails.

[4v50 Gary]

Ambidextrious safety too.

[blades67]

Don't let the MIL-SPEC sights and fugly finish fool you, that 1911A1 will shoot one and a half to two inch groups at 25 yards, those armorers do know how to rebuild a pistol.:cool:

[El Tejon]

As THE Pat Roger ejumakated me, not all FR pack 1911s. However, I believe those are the Shooters. DDD of the USMC.:)

[beckrodgers]

We read lapd fbi seals marines etc carry these pistols. What does that tell us? Also some dif pilots adament on the 45 or at least a .357, nice and good to have such smart folks on our side, Thanks

[DeltaElite]

He is obviously a man who has used a Beretta, that's why he has a 1911. :D

[KarlG]

I have a Beretta and a 1911...

[nsf003]

Glad his finger is not on the trigger.

nsf

[Jeff White]

Here is an excellent article from Pat Rogers on the MEU pistol.

http://www.full-auto.com/library_article_meu-soc.htm

Jeff

[Skunkabilly]

I have had a Beretta and a 1911...just have the Beretta now. :D

But that will change one day, I swear!

[Soap]

The MEU(SOC)s that I have seen have all pretty much looked like they were put together with a mixed bucket of parts. But the armorers apparently kick some major butt since they are reliable and accurate. Take a look at the lanyard article by Pat Rogers in the April '03 issue of S.W.A.T. magazine. Every single MEU(SOC) pistol is different!

[Preacherman]

Thanks for the link to that article, Jeff - interesting reading. But I'm madly jealous! Did you see this bit?These pistols are well used. The last one I was issued has 82,000 rounds in the gun book. This is not uncommon, as the Marines of Force Recon are hard shooters. During the 6 month pre-deployment work up, and the actual deployment itself, an operator will fire 20,000 to 40,000 rounds to acquire and maintain proficiency with his secondary weapon.And we PAY them to have this much fun??? :what: :D :neener:

[Jeff White]

And we PAY them to have this much fun???

Preacherman,
You just hit on the real reason that I have stayed in for almost 30 years...Can't afford the big toys on my own :D If you'd check, I'll bet you'll find a lot of people become career soldiers because they can't imagine NOT doing those things. The pay isn't THAT good :)

Jeff

[clem]

RECON, me thinks.

[WonderNine]

1911A1? Blah :barf:

I'll take my Browning Hi-Power along instead anyday.....

[mrstang01]

I agree with Sgt, that's not a MEU (SOC), it's a commander that's been customized, not a full size.

Michael

[M1911]

It looks more like a Combat Commander than a MEU/SOC....barrel looks shorter than 5"....correct me if I'm wrong.....Sure looks like 5" to me.

[STW]

Just an observation about issue/non-issue.
I was talking with a USMC Scout/Sniper from Camp Pendleton the week before he deployed and he told me that he and those in his unit were combing the area to upgrade their gear (gloves, webbing, etc.) to something better than government issue. He figured he'd spent several hundreds of dollars in the previous week and wasn't done yet. With his *** on the line he thought the extra expense was worth it.
I had my own thoughts about his having a need to do so.:fire:

[Pat_Rogers]

OK guys, sorry for the delay in posting this but i've been kinda' busy.
However, the mis/ disinformation / conjecture posted here is worth a reply.

Those pistols are "Pistol, Caliber .45, MEU(SOC) NSN 1005-01-370-7353".
It is an issue weapon only to the Marines and Sailors of Force Reconnaissance and the SOTG CQB Instructors.
There are no "Commander" variations.
The Marines and Sailors pictured are from 1st Force. The Corpsman is a great guy named Big Al. There was a Time Mag article about SF that had images from this incident back around the 20th of June- Big Al was in the background with a KAC suppressed M4A1.

Contrary to conjecture, they are not built "from a mixed bag of parts".
If you noted differences, that is because specific pistols were made in small lots (six guns) to test various components for an Improved MEU(SOC). This never happened as PWS was unable to keep up with the demand.
These difference included front slide serrations, a MilStd 1913 rail in some, and internal part changes.
The only thing "old and surplus" is the frame, which is original. Everything else- as in all of the rest of the gun- are new parts. Slides are Springfield Armory, barells are Bar-Sto and so forth.

The current pistol will be replaced by an Improved MEU(SOC) which will be commercially built. The testing is ongoing at Quantico.
As El Tejon stated, not everyone in Force uses the MEU(SOC) Pistol- only the Shooters. The attached EOD Techs carry M9's, as do HQ and support personnel.

Jeff White is correct in his statements. Read the article- it would save a lot of wild speculation.....

In the interim, MCSOCCOM has received an Interim CQB Pistol, built by Kimber. This will be used (and to a lesser degree, a supplemental pistol) until the Improved MEU(SOC) comes on line.

There will be an article in the December 03 issue of SWAT Magazine about this (available to subscribers on 07Oct.

Hope this clears up some of your questions/ comments.

[eatatjoes]

i saw this pic too, but it was here instead: http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/meusoc.htm

[Ian11]

Pat,

Any information about the interim Kimber pistols being used by the Marines? Is it basically a Custom II or Pre Series II completely built by Kimber, or modified by Marine Corp armorers, or something else?

And what are the guns being considered for their next choice? Enquiring minds want to know:D

[Pat_Rogers]

Ian,
I am proscribed from commenting on the tests.

The ICQB is a Series One Modified Commercial Off the Shelf (MCOTS) Item.
It is built by Kimber according to a specification.
It is a very good pistol....

But i cannot comment more at this time. Read the article in Oct- hopefully it will answer your questions then, but anything else is on hold.

[Lone_Gunman]

definitely a 5" barrel

[Pat_Rogers]

EatatJoes- the web site basically used my article (except for the first paragraph) in which he mentions the "MP5N Close Quarter Battle Weapon" which is false.
The MP5 subcaliber machine gun was replaced in 1998 by the M4A1 CQBW.

[Devonai]

I have had a Beretta and a 1911...just have the Beretta now.

Me, too. But the only reason I sold my 1911A1 was for extra cash.

I'd feel 100% confident with either weapon in any situation.

[Nightcrawler]

Not really related. I was reading a Soldier of Fortune magazine, and they had an article about Special Forces equipment in the Iraq war, with lots of pictures. Inside two of these Special Forces humvees (heavily modified), there were the usual assortment of M4s with and without suppressors, and...a pair of Sterlings.

Odd, that, but I've heard that the Sterling is the most reliable submachinegun ever made. Quality is timeless, I suppose....

[SodaPop]

I have a Beretta and a 1911...


Me three!!

[Nightcrawler]

It NEVER works out. Whenever the Army adopts a new weapon, they're always like "This will be the answer to all of our problems!" and try to make it fit every conceivable situation.

They wanted one rifle. So they had the M14, and the M14E2. "This will be the answer to all of our problems!" Turns out the M14 made a poor light machine gun, and failed as a replacement for the BAR.

Then they got the M16. "This will be the answer to all of our problems!" Turns out they keep finding uses for the supposedly obsolete 7.62mm rifles (the designated marksman's rifle, an idea the Russians came up with several decades before us). The M16A1 didn't do so well as a long ranged battle rifle, nor did it do well as a light machine gun.

They got the M9 Beretta. "This will be the answer to all of our problems!" Turns out special forces like different handguns, and .45ACP is hands down the superior choice for use with a suppressor. It also turns out that it's too big for some people, so we get the M11 (Sig P228) too.

They get the M249 SAW. "This will be the answer to all of our problems!" They replace the bulk of M60s with it. Turns out the SAW, being 5.56mm, doesn't have the range, penetration, and power of a 7.62mm GPMG. They start re-issuing M60s and buying new M240s.

That's just they way the military is. They can't get the idea that each type of weapon system has its place, and keep trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. They'd rather spend their money on new fuzzy black berets for everybody, then a widened, more versatile arsenal for the troops. (at least they got the idea with the machine guns...you need both light and medium machine guns. Each one has its place....)

[Sean Smith]

It is amazing how much ignorant, uninformed speculation you can find about something that can be easily known with a little research. Pat Rogers is correct. All the imbecillic b.s. about the guns being personal weapons, commander models, and so forth is not. I'd suggest you guys actually know something next time.

:rolleyes:

[10-Ring]

When I fin the right one, I too will have a 1911 in the stable...again. Nice pics by the way ;)