Big dogs freak me out

[CAnnoneer]

What's with this new fetish of having one or multiple big dogs in an urban or suburban environment? Young and old run around with slobbering beasts on leash, and sometimes without leash.

I don't know about you guys and gals, but big dogs really freak me out. I have no problem with small ones: chihuahuas, pinchers, terriers, poodles, pekinese etc, maybe even the smaller shepherd types. Big ones however are a different matter. I always imagine them getting excited and attacking while the 90 lbs grandma or skater girl gets dragged behind on the leash.

Getting a CCW in LA is nigh impossible for the common unwashed peasant, so I am thinking maybe have a pocket knife of a sort, just in case, preferably something inconspicuous but quickly deployable and with maximal allowable blade. There are some laws about fixed-blade weapons.

What would be your recommendation, within the bounds of California law?

Many thanks in advance.

[R.H. Lee]

Forget about the blade. Use the stream-type pepper spray. If the dog is running toward you aggressively, yell as loud as you can while raising your arms in the air and leaning forward toward the dog. That will confuse and stop him, just for a moment. That's when you hit him in the eyes and nose with the spray. He'll stop the attack.

No kidding. I've done this more than once and it works.

[JohnKSa]

pepper spray
walking stick
big flashlight

[creitzel]

Actually, based on my experience owning dogs, its the little ones that are more apt to see you as a threat and bite you.

I would own a big breed dog over smaller ones anyday ( in fact I have, including a pit bull and a rott weiler at the same time both big babies, who I trusted completly with my children) :)

[RyanM]

Small dogs are also more likely to attack, because owners are less likely to punish the dog for acting vicious. If a huge dog acts up, any responsible owner will punish the dog. But if a little dog does, they just go "oh, how cute!"

They forget that even a small dog is very large compared to a small child.

[Jim March]

If a dog runs towards you with his tongue hanging out, he's playful. The tongue is out for max cooling and he doesn't expect to have to chomp anything. Aggressive dogs ALWAYS retract the tongue first.

No tongue visible doesn't necessarily mean aggression, esp. if it's cold out or they haven't been building up extra heat for some reason (shorter haired breed, been resting, whatever). But if the tongue is out, he's definately not intending to attack, take it to the bank.

[RS3RS]

Fox labs. Pack it and be aware of your surroundings.

[Ryder]

BIG dogs freak me out too and I own one (140 pound Neopolitan Mastiff). I take a great deal of care to ensure that my dog does not cause fear in people. Physical restraint is not optional. Everyone loves my dog and she soaks it up like a sponge but it would be negligent to ignore the fact that she can injure them without even trying. Those paws belong on a lion, I tell ya.

I would not willingly submit myself to the presence of a big dog which was not under the direct control of a capable owner. That would be my advice to you. If you see situation that concerns you, don't be there. Distance is your friend.

I would rather have both hands free to deal with an attack than to try fending one off with a pocket knife. If I can pin it's head to the ground in a choke hold it's game over for that pooch.

[Cosmoline]

In my experience, the best bet with almost all aggressive dogs is to avoid running away and to have a handy club/walking stick with which to smack them in the nose if they get too close. A handgun is fine to have around in general, but attempting to use one in defense against a dog attack is tricky and dangerous. If the dog has nailed you, you'll be shooting DOWN, right at your own feet and legs. That's never a good idea. In addition, shooting my not fix the problem. A big dog with his blood up can take a lot of lead. But the same dog faced with a stick to the nose will likely decide not to press matters. They're usually looking for sucker bites on the back of the leg or hind end.

Using a concealable blade is a big mistake, since it brings you, your hands and your face down to the dog's level and eliminates your natural advantage of height and leverage. It's a fools weapon in a dog fight. I would also advise strongly AGAINST trying to man-handle a large aggressive dog with some sort of half-assed half-nelson. It is possible to restrain a big dog, but it's not easy and if you don't know what you're doing and don't have the proper tools you'll get mauled. Try to keep your hands away from the animal. This is why a heavy walking stick is so great. It allows you to utilize the human advantage of height and leverage without risking your hands or face.

Almost all stray or loose dogs that charge or muscle up to you are bluffing and will not press home an attack if you stand your ground and give them a smack with a stick. They want you to run, and if you do they can become extremely dangerous. The exception to this is a genuine guard dog who won't bluff, but these are pretty rare and you're not likely to have to deal with them unless you're a criminal.

[LAK]

Getting a CCW in LA is nigh impossible for the common unwashed peasant
You anwered your own initial question here. any people ahve big slobbering hounds for that feeling - real or imagined - of protection.

Best non-gun protection against a big slabbering hound IMO is a big iron bamboo walking stick. That or do window cleaning part time; carry a big spray bottle of household ammonia around with your rag, etc.

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[Clean97GTI]

From my experience with dogs (including my own pit mix) I've discovered that the best way to deal with an animal is to show yourself to be bigger and meaner than they are.
If the dog doesn't take the hint...all bets are off. You kick, punch, mace, swing weapons, etc. to ward the dog off.

I'm a young guy (23) of fairly decent stature (5'11" 185) and I know I don't want a scrap with someone's out-of-control dog. From the few I've had to deal with, I've learned that the more imposing you seem, the less inclined they are to act. If they don't figure it out, don't be afraid to pull moves that would make PETA hate you. Stomp toes, jab eyes, kick as hard as you can.
The best thing you can do is distance yourself. Stick and move...back preferably. If the dog charges again...draw and fire...cujo ain't worth your life.

[1911Tuner]

I've got Collies. Three big males, and one smallish male...and mama dog to the three big boys. My main two problems with'em is makin'em understand
that they're too big to be lap dogs, and that all five can't sleep in the bed with us. Wakin' up at 0400 with over 400 pounds of dog piled on ya is a real hoot....especially if your bladder has reached critical mass and ya gotta get up NOW.:p

That said...A half-inch diameter hardwood stick, about 5 feet long and sharpened to a point at one end is the best defense against an encounter with an untrained, potentially aggressive dog. Also makes for a good walking stick that only a few people will notice is actually a lance. Very PC when hiking in Blissninnyville or Soccermom town.

Dogs will instinctively bite down on the closest object as they come on.
When the sharp end of the stick is grabbed, shove with all your might, and keep shoving. This takes the initiative away from the dog and puts HIM on the defensive...and hurting his mouth and throat gives him to understand that he will lose this fight if he persists. Don't jab at the dog with the stick.
It's too easy for him to evade and get under it. Just hold it out front and bait him to grab it. Once he does, don't be gentle...Shove it like you're trying to drive it into his gut.

Maintain a frontal posture as he circles, and don't let the dog get behind you.
Keep the stick out front with the end about level with his head, or a little lower. Speak in a commanding voice. Most dogs will stand down when they see that you intend to fight...and the stick backs that up.

Lastly, don't think that just because an aggressive dog doesn't fit into the massive category, that the danger goes down. A 40-pound dog that is serious about an attack can take your arms apart like a paper shredder.

[Lupinus]

I hate little dogs (except wiener dogs :evil: ) and like the midsize and large breeds, two favorites are greater mountain Swiss and Irish wolfhound, two very big dogs.

In my experience, little dogs are more likely to bit and tem teeth may be little but they still friggin hurt, plus size is they are conveniently sized for punting practice. Big dogs at least with responsible owners are less likely to attack but when they do can be much more sever.

A knife is better then a club or flashlight IMO. With a knife once the dog latches on you can still easily use a knife, a club if you don't get a good whack or two in early on it wont be nearly as effective as a good sized sharp knife. Good option could be club first if that don't work drop it and get knife. Also get the hottest pepper spray you can find, fox labs stuff is great.

If a dog is charging face him, square up make yourself look as big as possible and loudly yell common things- STOP, GO HOME. Does two things, one will confuse the hell out of a dog who is instinctively used to prey running. Two if it doesn't work you will be in a good position to receive the attack. One hand get your spray other your club. Give a good spray right in the face and mouth with the spray, if that doesn't work and he is still coming drop it get the arm out and get ready to swing. Unless the dog is trained it is likely to latch onto the closest thing to it, in this case arm. Once he is in range whack him right on the skull hard as you can as many times as you can. If that doesn't work lastly get your knife (if you haven't already due to going with the club first method) sacrifice some prettyness of your arm hold it out and slightly high let the dog latch onto your forearm and depending on the portioning preferably get the knife in the gut rip it open and disembowel the thing, if not plunge it into the chest until it lets go or dies. Don't slash, slashing does nothing, stabbing does. If squaring, peppering, and clubbing don't work and it comes to knife and arm it wont be pretty or good feeling but you'll be alive. Last thing you wanna do is run it will encourage the dog and much as it'll hurt a dog latched onto your forearm is better then your neck.

EDIT- A shapened walking stick as mentioned above would be great as well, use their own momentum agianst them.

[CoachVince]

I'm with the "clubbing" crowd; I still think that a dog won't notice puncture injuries as readily as good hard raps on the nose, skull, between the eyes. Offering up your arm may be the best way to get control if the dog is lunging for you, but a dog can open up those veins pretty quick, and I know my dogs, even when playing, usually go for the wrist.
A typical 3-D cell flashlight is probably the best, but you may feel conspicuous carrying it in broad daylight. Pepper spray MAY help, but I'd look for whatever they recommend for use against bear (other than a .44).
The only item I'd feel fairly confident "hand-to-paw" with against dogs the size of mine, other than a firearm or other legally restricted device, would probably be a shovel; even a folding entrenching type if it was all I had. The handle is a nice stout club, and can be used to force into the dog's mouth if possible. The shovel end is really good for whacking on the skull or nose.
If he's already "on you", it may give you some leverage to keep him off/away.course, then you'd be the weird guy walking around with a shovel, which woud encourage other people to get big dogs, etc. etc.

I know when my two larger males went at it (108 lb. Dogue DeBordeaux, 198 English Mastiff), their bites didn't deter each other. But when my wife got their attention with the flat side of a shovel, they settled down enough to obey commands. Apparently, just because one of them is in the mood to play, it doesn't mean BOTH are.

As far as what's with it- if you were in your home, and you could deter a robbery by the presence of a dog, without having to deal with all the paperwork of shooting someone, wouldn't it be a good thing? Having bigger dogs is like having a .45 instead of a compact .25; I wouldn't want to be killed by either one, but there still advantages to going with "the big dogs".

[Lupinus]

vince-
I agree with the knife, which is why I suggest the clubing first.

But once the dog gets in on you or has already atched down you are limited IMO with it and a knife then becomes better.

[TallPine]

I always imagine them getting excited and attacking while the 90 lbs grandma or skater girl gets dragged behind on the leash.
Too much imagination, maybe ...? ;)

[Manedwolf]

I have no problem with small ones: chihuahuas, pinchers, terriers, poodles, pekinese etc,

Eh. Those aren't dogs. They're a form of rodent. :D

A "dog" is something you can play rough tug-of-war and wrassle with and the only thing that gets broken is possibly furniture, not the dog. :)

And you'd freak out at the size of some of the Newfoundlands around here!

[MrTwigg]

Fot the bigger dogs I'd go with a club, ...er "Walking stick". :evil:
A knife is a contact weapon and if the dog grabs your knife hand then you have to try and switch hands ...with a large angry dog shaking your strong arm. Sprays are good unless there is wind, then they are not much use.

Big stick good, big pointy stick better. :D

[WT]

A friend is a meter reader with the local gas and electric company. He used to be a field goal kicker in school. Uses the same technique applied to the dog's throat. Works for him.

[Preacherman]

Would a taser or stun-gun work on a dog?

[RyanM]

Would a taser or stun-gun work on a dog?

There was a video awhile back of a taser being used on a bull.

So they'd work about as well as on a human of the same size, most likely. Taser would make the dog go limp, stun gun would make the dog go "arf" and bite down harder.

[ArmedBear]

Don't be lulled into a false sense of security (or fear) by a dog's size. A dog's temperament matters 10 times more.

Big mastiffs can be slobbering love machines that just want everyone to pet them; a truly human-aggressive 30 lb. dog can kill. Ever seen what a Malinois can do, and how quickly?

Non-lethal weapons are the best, though. If you say you are "freaked out" then it's a fair bet you don't know how to read dog communication. If a dog is really aggressive towards you and you knew it for sure, you'd be genuinely frightened, not just nervous. And if not, you'd have no concern.

So, with pepper spray or an electrical stun weapon, you won't be accidentally killing someone's pet, and conversely, you need not hesitate if you believe you are being attacked. Dogs that want to attack are VERY fast.

[CoachVince]

Don't be lulled into a false sense of security (or fear) by a dog's size. A dog's temperament matters 10 times more.

Big mastiffs can be slobbering love machines that just want everyone to pet them; a truly human-aggressive 30 lb. dog can kill. Ever seen what a Malinois can do, and how quickly?

Agreed- didn't mean to imply small dogs aren't dangerous, only that big dogs might not notice the knife as much. You could cut a small dog in half with a blow that a bigger one (i.e., a good-sized Dalmatian) wouldn't flinch at. A blow with a flashlight that might daze a Rotty could send a Boston out of the park, so to speak.

With that said, smaller dogs will often seem to be 5 lb.s of fur and 10 lb.s of teeth- lots and lots of heavily bleeding wounds can bleed you out fast. And more than of them will attack in different spots, and it'll take twohands just to fight off one.

As someone else said above, firm commands to STOP, GO HOME is your first layer of defense when a strange dog is threatening. Short of that, if it's not on it's own property, stop the threat.

[MinMAN]

I train dogs for LE, as well as for private citizens. In 20 years, the only time I was bitten, was by a little POS mut, on my way out of the door of the owner's residence. (Sneaky little bastard).

What ever environment you either live, or work. Know that environment well. If an un-trained large breed dog is allowed to run loose. Report it. Do your best to correct a problem, before it becomes a situation you must handle personally. It's not the complete answer to the problem, but it does help.

[ball3006]

I am not a dog person. I will probably get one when I retire. Then someone will be home to take care of it. At my camp I ALWAYS carry because of dogs. So far I have not had to shoot any. A shot between the feet works so far. The bigger problem is not the dogs, but the owners. They are the ones that need to be shot because of the way they treat/take care of their dogs.........chris3

[MinMAN]

I am not a dog person. I will probably get one when I retire. Then someone will be home to take care of it. At my camp I ALWAYS carry because of dogs. So far I have not had to shoot any. A shot between the feet works so far. The bigger problem is not the dogs, but the owners. They are the ones that need to be shot because of the way they treat/take care of their dogs.........chris3
YUP!

[SpookyPistolero]

Ryder, congrats on the good taste! Neo's are very fine dogs. Our last two were neos and they were great. We've got an english mastiff right now weighing in out about 240#. He's a sweetheart, especially with little kids. They can wrestle on him all day and he'll barely nudge em back. Woe to you, though, if you are a new/unwelcome male and only his momma is home.

Lots of people will sure get nervous if they haven't been around bigger dogs before, but from my experiences the dog will generally behave in the tone its master does. If the master is freaked, the dog will be more aggressive, especially if its a female. I'd keep a closer eye on how their master looks and behaves, to get a feel for what the pup might decide to do.

[Cosmoline]

A knife is better then a club or flashlight IMO. With a knife once the dog latches on you can still easily use a knife, a club if you don't get a good whack or two in early on it wont be nearly as effective as a good sized sharp knife. Good option could be club first if that don't work drop it and get knife. Also get the hottest pepper spray you can find, fox labs stuff is great.

NO WAY. I've been the helper in protection work many times, and I've been nailed many times by working line GSD's. I've also had to fend off aggressive rots and pits. Short of your bare hands, a knife is the worst possible choice. To use the knife you must bend down towards the dog, putting you off balance. It also eliminates any advantage of leverage, making it a 1:1 fight between your strength and the dog's strength. It also puts your HANDS and even worse your FACE right down next to the dog's business end. If all this weren't enough, even a large knife is no guarantee of lethality. Assuming you do get a hit in, which is doubtful, you'll be running into a mass of fat, fur and bone. Male dogs in particular are built like tanks out front, specifically to survive the attacks of rival males. All you'll be doing is making the dog mad and giving him a lot of juicy targets to nail.

Before you use a knife to fend off a large aggressive dog attack, put yourself in line to get one of those new face transplants.

[Scottmkiv]

I think smaller dogs say 30-50 lbs scare more easily, which can result in biting if not outright attacking. As dogs get bigger they have less to worry about, and seem more mellow.

[crofrog]

On the subject of knive's though...

I like my Kershaw Tactical Blur (I like black blades)

Another good option would be the cold steel voyager
http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=20

It's a little big but you got 6 inchs of blade to work with in a nice folder.

[ArmedBear]

I like my new little Kershaw Ken Onion knife. Pops out quick with a little nudge, great blade, great quality, USA made. Kershaw is getting more business from me!

But fighting a dog with a knife is pretty stupid. If you can win without suffering massive injuries, the dog wasn't a real threat to begin with.

[Lupinus]

cosmo, agreed it isn't optimal but then it isn't optimal to be in a fight with a dog in the first place. Before a dog latchs on might be better to have a club, once it latchs on I'd rather have a knife.

[Ryder]

Good advice Cosmo and I'd have said the same thing except I thought sticks were illegal to carry in CA? Read their catalog of a weapons law sometime when you have a free day or two. If sticks were legal to carry you wouldn't see anybody walking the streets there without one. It'd be standard apparel. They'd have catchy brand logos, cost a mint, and you wouldn't have people coming to these forums constantly asking how they are supposed to protect themselves against something man mastered tens of thousands of years ago.

Good advice also about knowing what you're doing before going hand to hand with a dog. But I wouldn't assume choice is an option. It's too late for learning once a dog that is into aeronautics takes you off your feet.

They are an awesome force of nature. I get the same feeling looking at Niagra Falls :D My dog has "lit up" a few times. There's something about me turning away strangers at the front door or property line that causes her to punctuate their departure ensuring they don't return. She cracks me up! Best dog I ever had.

[One of Many]

It has been quite a few years since I owned a dog, so my memory has faded a bit. I seem to recall that dogs are very sensitive to pressure on the jaws; if you grab the lower jaw and squeeze it (palm inside the dog's mouth - fingers applying pressure to the sides of the lower jaw), the dog will practically break it's neck trying to escape your grip. It does not require a strong grip to discomfort a dog in this manner.

Dogs also don't like to have their tongues depressed (gag reflex maybe), or their airway obstructed. In an emergency, I would stick my arm down the dog's throat and form a fist, cutting off the air supply.

The best defense is a big stick, applied with vigor to the nose and jaws of the dog; going for the ribs will usually result in a miss, and the dog catching you off balance.

[KriegHund]

CAnonneer, its the little dogs you need to be afraid of...

[1911Tuner]

One of many....+1

That's why the stick shoved down the dog's throat works.
It hurts...it blocks the dog's air...and if it's yanked sharply to one side after it's deep in the throat, it will probably break the jaw or possibly even break the stick off in the dog's throat...or both. With the jaws disabled, the mechanism of attack is neutralized, and the dog can't do you any harm.

By the way...This advice comes from a man with many years of canine attack training under his belt. I'm just passin' it along.

[Cosmoline]

It's also worth remembering that really getting nailed by a big dog will stun you on a deep, primal level. I suspect getting shot or hit by a heavyweight boxer causes a similar gut reaction. Believe me when you're really getting hit it feels nothing like the sort of play bites or accidental bites pets sometimes deliver. Any notion of wrestling with the animal or sticking your hand in its gullet vanishes. You've got to keep upright and pit your major muscles agains the dog. Your arms and hands alone are useless bite magnets. Keep them clear. If you have no stick, kick. Use your hips and shoulders to deflect a charge, not your arms. Avoid presenting targets to the animal. If you can knock it down, kick it hard while it's down, but don't EVER get down there with the animal. If you get knocked down keep your face tucked in. No dog has the bite radius needed to crack a human skull, so the worst they can do is scalp you or take an ear.

[treeprof]

Little dogs freak me out. I got bit up as a kid by a - don't laugh - chihuahua, and I won't go near them or their kind. When my bro. and I had a paper route as kids, some jerk used to think it was funny to open the door and watch his 3 little nippy dogs come after us and chew our shoes and ankles. We soon took to spitting big loogies on them, and he gave that up.

I'm 42, 6"3", 210 lbs and afraid of <5lb dogs.

[Lupinus]

I know you said don't laugh....but thats hilarious...you probably had the same effect as saying don't look down though lol

[kbheiner7]

There's no reason to be afraid of dogs - even big ones. Arm yourself with a simple club and keep your wits about you and all will be fine.

I was once attacked by a large Rott on a dark, rainy night in Oregon. That rather pissed mutt met his end thanks to my 5 D cell Maglite. :D Stupid dog.

Cosmoline is largely spot on, but I think there's something to be said for the "fight" instinct. It's fight or flight they say.

[MinMAN]

We soon took to spitting big loogies on them, and he gave that up.

It depends on the velocity you can produce with your Loogie.:neener:

[Rock and Glock]

Big dogs, small dogs. If they make you uncomfortable, then you need CS. NO KNIFE. I've had them all - big, small, in-tweeners. They can all be sweet and cute and harmless, they can all be dangerous as a darn pit piper. But - using a knife puts you at a disadvantage - face low, hand extended. "Please BITE me"!

If you don't like dogs, tell them owners to withdraw them. Have spray. Do not be afraid or show fear if possible. You should be the "Alpha" becauseyou are human - show them. Remember: they are dogs, pack animals and look for a leader.

It is the OWNERS responsibility to curb their dogs! Make them honor their responsibility and duty.