[Humbug]

Hi Fellas,

I am brand new to the forum. I will be honest up front. I am here for a purpose. I belong to and am Vice Commander of The Devil Mountain Brigade. We were formed in 1971 in the small California town of Danville. We appear, at request, at various functions throughout Northern Calif and Nevada and march in parades. But thats not all. We march in rows of three and fire 12ga. BLANK black powder rounds on direction from our Commander, Bob Gray. Some of you may not believe that we are still able to fire shotguns in public but we do. I cannot locate anyone else who does this anywhere. We are a one-of-a-kind outfit. Over the past 8 years we have been blessed with sponsorship from the good folks at Winchester. Once a year they would send a skid with all the shells we needed for the upcoming season. They were and are some of the best people I have ever met. Sadly the support simply could not be budgeted any longer due to econmics and Winchester no longer can supply our shells. Which brings me to my purpose. We are looking for someone who can reload black powder blanks for us. Not such a big deal but we have been told that reloading ourselves might be ill-advised due to the black powder. These shells must also have a plug or wad that completely disinergrates on firing. We march in public and simply cannot have any projectile leaving the muzzle. The Winchester XBP12 shell has a sawdust/wax plug that turns to dust on firing. The plug might be cardboard or paper or something else so long as it vaporizes. I figure that this is the place to ask for advice. So if any of you can help with the name and number of someone who you think could help us out please let me know. Thanks in advance for any help.

DIck Stark (Humbug)
xngh25@hotmail.com

[sundance44s]

Maybe you should look on the net for loading BP shot shells .. its very simple .. no special equipment needed .. and for a blank for the stuffing maybe styrofoam .

[Weird Guy]

River Junction sells blank shotgun shells.

http://www.riverjunction.com/catalog/guns/blanks.html

[ArmedBear]

Another source for blank ammo, BP and other replicas, blank-firing guns, etc.

http://www.iar-arms.com/cart/category.php?c=2+

[Humbug]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the feedback. What we need are SMOKE and NOISE. Our entire show is based on smoke and noise so we cannot use traditional smoke-free powder. Since my last post I have been exploring the possibility of reloading our own shells. We had been cautioned by a few gunshops that we would be better off having someone put them up for us due to safety concerns. We are totally responsible and respectful of what we are dealing with and we may look into purchasing the equipment and supplies necessary. We may still have a challenge finding just the right wad or "plug". It MUST NOT EXIT upon firing. Whatever is used must turn to nothing on firing due to the fact that we fire these rounds in public and safety is # 1 with this organization.
We would welcome any further advice or ideas on building this little jewel. As I mentioned we need 5000-6000 rounds a year to honor our committments for the season. So please feel free to chime in with your ideas.
Thanks to the good folks at The High Road for making this forum available to us. And thanks to everyone showing an interest in keeping the The Devil Mountain Brigade going. We are now in the 36th year of performing. Our next event will be in Paradise, CA on April 22. Anyone in the area that would like to come and see what we are all about are welcome to come and hang out with us. We will provide the finale to the parade and nobody goes home until we have finished. We will be at the top of the hill in the staging area. Just look for the American flag and a bunch of guys in red t-shirts carrying shotguns. You can't miss us!!!

Cheers,
Dick Stark
The Devil Mountain Brigade
xngh25@hotmail.com

[Father Knows Best]

We may still have a challenge finding just the right wad or "plug". It MUST NOT EXIT upon firing. Whatever is used must turn to nothing on firing due to the fact that we fire these rounds in public and safety is # 1 with this organization.

What color is the sky in your world?

Blanks are NEVER "safe." Even with blanks, you must exercise care. Even without a traditional projectile, you will have a pressure wave and lots of very hot gases exiting the muzzle. They can and will cause serious injury, and even death, to those in their path.

In addition, with any kind of wad, you WILL have something exiting the muzzle. Traditionally, shotgun shells were loaded with card and fiber wads. The card wads, made of simple cardboard, were used to separate powder from the wad column, and an "overshot" card was used to seal the shell and keep shot from leaking out. Fiber wads were used as cushions between the powder and the shot.

In modern shotshells, plastic wads take the place of the overpowder and cushion wads, and star-crimped plastic shells mean that overshot wads typically aren't used of needed.

In either type of shell, the wads will exit the muzzle, even without shot being loaded. They will strike anyone in their path. They are lightweight and lose velocity quickly, however, meaning that they don't travel very far, and are unlikely to cause injury to anyone beyond a fairly short range. Still, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A WAD THAT "DISAPPEARS" OR EVAPORATES UPON FIRING. THERE NEVER WILL BE.

In addition, black powder does not combust completely. The smoke that you see is solid particles exiting along with the gases. Nearly half the weight of a typical charge of black powder will exit the muzzle as solid particles. Many of these particles may still be burning. That's why you get flames and sparks shooting out of the muzzle, also. They can and will strike and injure anyone in their path.

In fact, some fast draw sports, and cowboy mounted shooting, use black powder blanks as their ammo. They shoot at inflated balloons as targets, and the particles ejected from the blanks pop the balloons easily at ranges of several meters.

If you want black powder blanks, load them yourself. It's not hard. For shotshells, you're best off using all brass hulls (more authentic, easy to reload, can be reloaded many times, height of the column is not important as it is with plastic hulls, and the burning black powder won't melt the hull and leave plastic snot in your bores). Use any 209 shotshell primer that fits the hull. Pour in around 75-100 grains of black powder. Seat an overpowder card wad using a wooden dowel of the right size, and glue it in with Elmer's Glue or waterglass. Use a little bit of pressure when seating the wad to ensure that you have no air space left and moderate compression of the powder. You may find that seating a thin fiber cushion wad over the powder helps. You can get those from Circle Fly, too.

Then use extreme care when discharging the shells. The wads, particles of black powder, and hot gases will exit the barrel at 1,200-1,300 fps. Make sure no one is in the path of the muzzle for at least 10 yards.

[Duncaninfrance]

Why not contact the good people at Winchester and ask them how they made your cartridges? They must be able to give you the load details. Take this information and see if you can replicate the cartridges yourselves and Hey Presto - problem solved!
Duncan