Critique my fund-raising shoot idea


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Monkeyleg
March 10, 2006, 06:07 PM
Since the cancellation of the subgun fund-raising shoot, I've been racking my brain trying to think of an event that would draw a large number of people and raise a decent amount of money.

One idea that just came to me was a "shoot-a-thon," where people would bring their guns and let others shoot them. It would be a chance for people who've never shot, say, a CAR-15 to have a chance to try one out. Maybe there could also be a trap shooting event where people will bring the more exotic shotguns for others to shoot.

Our political action committee would have to reimburse the range for fair market value, so I'm thinking that a $25 contribution to shoot would be a fair amount.

I'm still trying to figure out how the question of ammunition.

Your suggestions or criticisms are appreciated.

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Nashmack
March 10, 2006, 06:37 PM
I'd like to see an all BP shoot, with a little bit of everything from the classic flintlocks, wheellocks, and matchlocks, all the way up to modern inlines, and of course C+B revolvers :)

thorazine
March 10, 2006, 06:46 PM
Your suggestions or criticisms are appreciated.

Not bad!

I had a similiar idea with just a few minor differences:

1) Shoot naked.
2) In order to attend you have to be accompanied by three females who will also participate in the shoot.

migoi
March 10, 2006, 07:06 PM
every year at our one public range. The various shooting clubs/organizations participate.

The public comes, buys script for $1 a piece and then redeems the script at various venues. The number of shots per script or script per shot varies according to caliber.

The clubs are reimbursed for ammo costs based on the number of script they turn back into the organizing club. One club does the safety briefs/sells foamy earplugs and eye protection for those that don't have any.

You could also think about seeing if local gunshops would donate raffle prizes for advertising consideration.

just a thought....

migoi

Rembrandt
March 10, 2006, 09:33 PM
Been there and done it....not an easy task, but can be a big money maker. Over the years I've organized several large shooting events to raise funds. Lots of planning, plenty of lead time, good organization, and tons of volunteers.

Did one event like the old time shooting galleries....participants bring their own guns and ammo, pay a fee to shoot each event......

("The Moving Moose") Handguns or Rifles, consisted of an electric garage door opener, cables strung between two poles (or trees) with a plywood moose that traveled side to side for about 25'. Moose had a steel gong hung in the heart lung area.....hit the gong and it rings out. Ten shots for $2, or Thirty shots for $5. (8 hits out of 10 gets a free round)

("Handgun Falling Steel Plates") Handguns, can be either a shoot for best time or a head-to-head competition between two shooters.

("Elmer Keith Handgun Shoot") Steel gong set up at 200 or 300 yards, 5 shots for $2 or 15 for $5. No rests, offhand shooting.....mimics Elmer's legendary 600 yard handgun shot on a deer. (Hit 3 out of 5 get a free round).

("Shotgun Slug Bowling Pin Shoot") Swinger Bowling Pins, eye bolts screwed into the top of bowling pins, then hung from a piece of rebar.....5 shots for $2. (Get a free round if you hit 4 of 5).

("Axe Blade Split") Shotgun slugs, handgun, or rimfire shoot at the axe blade and try to split the bullet breaking two clay targets.

("Rabbit Shoot") Use sporting clay rabbit targets and thrower, only the shooters use handguns or .22 rifles. (5 targets for $3) Hit 4 of 5 and get a free round.

("Salad Shoot") Handguns, rifles, shotguns....let shooters explode vegetables and fruit stuck on wooden lathe or stakes. (3 shots for $1)

The money making part of all this is that shooters use their own ammo and firearms....have plenty of ammo for sale if they run out. Serve food and soft drinks (another profit center). Have local sporting goods stores sponsor the event with prizes like hats and things they have trouble selling. Need a few give-a-ways for door prizes, maybe raffle a rifle off. The club usually generated about $8,000-10,000 for one weekend of work....people talked about it for years.

In other events we got local sports & media celebrities and politicians to participate in trap-skeet-sporting clays.....the publicity was priceless. Good Luck....

AJ Dual
March 10, 2006, 11:01 PM
Trying a host of different guns?

It's a good idea. It has some excelent potential. It has the novelty factor that the MG's did, but watered down just a bit.

I see some potential pitfalls, but none are nearly as problematic as the issues surrounding the MG shoot.

The anti media can spin shooting AR-15's and semi AK's about as badly as they can MG's. Pics and/or video of black rifles with pistol grips and visibly protruding magazines can easily look just as "bad" as MG's to sheeple and fence-sitters. Also Spivak and Bice might try to nail us again with a "Theeeeeeeeeyr Baaaaaack!" kind of negative article.

Non-MG's also may not be enough of a draw. Full-auto has an understandable appeal to a wider base. I think of the MG rental ranges around Las Vegas and how they draw in the tourists. Maybe an opportunity to touch off a .50 BMG? That's the only firearm I can think of that has no more restrictions than a Rem 870 at Wally-World, but still has similar "allure"...

And how do we reach the non-shooting community? Sympathetic non-shooter & fence-sitter friends of the shooting community and the WCCA mailing list? You can gaurantee that any mainstream coverage we get for the event will be bad press.

What if we draw a bunch of thugs and poseurs?

It dosen't involve non-shooters, but as a shooter myself Rembrandt's idea is very interesting. I think lots of shooters are interested in the other kinds of shooting that they haven't the right guns to participate in, or the time. Perhaps a "shooting fair" where people can rotate through different styles of shooting matches that they've never had the chance to try.

I, for instance have never tried a bowling pin match, shot at steel plates or tried a stage of ISPC-type shooting. I may not have the time to dedicate to trying any of them full-time, but I'd be very interested in trying those different kinds of shoots at least once.

While this can be put to non-shooters who are interested in trying some kind of shooting for the first time, it could also fill a gap we've had a problem with from the beginning. It's possible that "shotgun only" bird or clay shooters, or bolt-action only deer hunters could get some exposure to other shooting disciplines and possibly get involved with RKBA from a pure ownership and self-defense standpoint as opposed to a pure focus on hunting rights.

Monkeyleg
March 10, 2006, 11:33 PM
Thanks for the constructive suggestions, everyone.

This fund-raiser is for a political action committee. Funds raised will go to pro-gun (pro-CCW) candidates for state office.

So, here are some restrictions:

1. No raffles or other games of chance. 100% illegal.

2. The political action committee must pay the range for fair market value, pay any gun shops that supply ammo full market value, and pay anyone else supplying anything of value for those items.

3. Every person who contributes more than $10 has to give the PAC his name and address. IOW, if a person buys a $4.01 hot dog, and then buys $6 worth of ammo, volunteers will have to double-check to make sure that person gets recorded on the state elections forms. If so, the volunteers will need to find that person and get name and address. Every person contributing more than $10 must be recorded on the forms for the state elections board. That's why I was hoping the subgun shoot could go forward: just pay $40, and go shoot.

To be an effective fund-raiser, things have to move as expeditiously as possible. People will want to get on the range ASAP, and not stand in line filling out paperwork.

Perhaps attendees would buy however many $1 tickets as they like. If they think they're going to spend $50 on ammo and food, they buy 50 tickets, and volunteers just record that one contribution.

If there's a way to make this as enjoyable and trouble-free as possible, I could see such events going on all over the state right up until the November elections.

Whether or not that would happen depends upon the level of committment of those who say they want WI to become a shall-issue state.

Here's why really burns me, though: we're trying to figure out how to legally get $25 or even $50 contributions to help in the campaigns.

Meanwhile, Doyle's campaign staffers sit down with employees from road-building companies from across the country, with employees from energy companies, with employees from the indian casino tribes, with members of the state teachers' union, and they get personal checks from each person for $10,000 each.

Governor Doyle's campaign is a money machine, nothing more, nothing less. He'll sell his soul to anyone with an open wallet.

If the gun owners of Wisconsin want their rights, they're going to have to open their wallets as well.

Meanwhile, please keep any and all suggestions coming.









4.

Monkeyleg
March 11, 2006, 12:09 AM
AJ, what I'm proposing is 500% legal. Spivak and Bice can go to hell. In fact, if they want to make this an issue again, I'll make them an offer: sit down and talk to me like reasonable men, or I'll see to it that people we know in "talk radio" get the full scoop.

If ever there were two guys who deserved to be taken down a notch, they're it.

Any range we would rent would be private property. No media allowed. Or we could just arrange talking points.

My God, previous posters have said they'd like to shoot Civil War era cap 'n ball revolvers, or muskets. Where's the scare in that?

The Spivak and Bice column was about an event that was cancelled because the organizers decided that WI state statutes were so full of holes that nobody could say whether or not it was legal. Even people at the DOJ said so to those two reporters. (Of course, they neglected to mention that point).

I told them that they had spent their entire day on a non-story, and that they were desperately trying to fill their column for the next day. I told them the truth. And they ran a non-story story.

The club I belong to in Muskego has trap facilities, rifle and pistol ranges, and an area for pin busts or IPSC shoots. We could do all three at once.

On top of that, this wouldn't have to be the blueprint for every fund-raiser statewide. A "moving moose" shoot would be a much bigger draw in northern parts of the state than here in SE WI.

All we need to do is figure out what to charge, how to record contributions, and what ranges/gun shops need to be paid fair market value for goods and services. We could run such events every single week, provided that there are enough volunteers willing to organize such events.

Here's the real deal: there are keyboard commando's talking about open carry marches, civil disobedience, and every other manner of brave talk.

Fact is, if Doyle is re-elected, we will not get concealed carry in WI for the duration of his tenure. You can take that to the bank.

OTOH, if Doyle is defeated, and the Republicans can hold just 17 Senate seats and 51 Assembly seats, we will all have permits next year.

This is all about politics, and it's all about money. Doyle has already set out his strategy: money. We have to fight on his territory.

So, let's get at it.

More ideas, please.

AJ Dual
March 11, 2006, 01:14 AM
Dick,

I agree, the problems I mentioned are nothing as compared to the MG shoot. I was just throwing them out there as the negatives I could think of. (You were asking for a "critique" no? :D )

And I think we can take a stance of "There is no bad publicity." as well. Didn't the recent Spivak & Bice hatchet piece generate tons of e-mail sign-ups for the WCCA? Maybe we should schedule and cancel a MG shoot every month? :p


I think the idea of a "shooting fair" that others have come up with is a great one. It's the best I've seen so far. We should run with it. Even if it's not what we ultimately do, I think that having an operating idea to work with might spur better ideas, if there's any to be had, if just in comparison.

My only club affiliation right now will be with Boxhorns trap club. Mainly because it's the only kind of shooting I can afford right now... I was toying with proposing a trap outing/cookout, but I haven't first clue if they'd touch that with a ten foot pole for the WCCA. (I'm going to politely float it to the managment anyway...) And as just a seasonal member I wouldn't have much pull other than trying some very hard salesmanship. A trap-only event would also be pretty one-dimentional, and possibly not much of a draw.

I also think that we don't have a good way to reach open-minded non-gunners except via word-of-mouth through existing members of the shooting community, so we should just focus on them right now.

I am willing to volunteer at such an event as staff, BTW.

Check your PM's I've got more ideas on how to sell this...

Rembrandt
March 11, 2006, 01:43 AM
Now have a better idea of what you are trying to accomplish. Having organized shooting events with Chuck Heston, GWB, and numerous celebrities/politicians....I'd suggest dropping the shooting portion of the event.

Shooting program and raising cash has limitations. Logistics of getting enough people through the program in a fixed amount of time will only produce so many dollars. My experience has been it's good public relations and media coverage, but not the money maker people think. I'd forget about the shooting event unless you have a number of committed Celebrities who will donate their appearances for the cause.

To make the most money, the best model would be a one evening dinner-auction event modeled after "Pheasant Forever" or "Friends of the NRA". Done right these can generate $40,000-$80,000 in one evening.

Bill2k1
March 11, 2006, 01:50 AM
Why not have a dinner or something? I don't think the event needs to have a day at the range involved. Maybe a 9-pin tap tourney.

BigFatKen
March 11, 2006, 05:20 AM
I was involved with the Springbrook Sportsmen Club, near Oshkosh, in 1978. We had a running deer shoot at 100 yards. Full speed "deer" ran from behind cover in front of the berm. It even had some cams to make it jump. Disaster. Very very few people hit it so few re-trys. Next year the deer ran at 1/5 speed and you could see its head as it started. A much better time was had and more money made.

I like the dinner idea.

Just my two cents worth.

AJ Dual
March 11, 2006, 10:36 AM
I've done the running deer match at 50 yards with AR-15's at Daniel Boone, where they had 5 steel chicken plates on a stand, and the deer crossed them twice at moderate speeds.

It was "run what you brung" any optics or accessories were fine, and a 30 round magazine. You were welcome to shoot with other semi's than AR's but to be qualified to win the prize (a case of .223) you had to use an AR.

The deer had an 6" paper desert plate for the head target, and a regular 10" paper dinner plate for the vitals. After you knocked over the five chickens, you put as many into the deer as you could.

It was one of those events about as fun to watch as it was to shoot. One newb was running his AR almost completely dry, and it locked up on him. Everyone gathered around to help tear it down and offered their lube. Pretty good community feeling. Some teenage girls were there with their father and were shooting too.

IIRC, the fee was $5 a try. My best was a score of 12, which actualy put me in second place at for a while. (the leader was 15). I got the five chickens, and put seven more rounds into the deer's "vitals". Not bad for a bunch of duffers who probably don't get to participate in other tactical matches like three-gun...

The WCCA has tried fundraiser dinners in the past, they had Mas Ayoob the previous year, and it was a good event, however Monkeleg has explained to me that catering expenses, the hall rental, getting Mas a hotel room etc. all really cut into the profits for tons of organizational work to set up the event.

Most WCCA supporters are working stiffs, and can't afford $250 a plate fundraiser dinners like the blue-blooded hobnobbers at GOP and DNC events...

So what I think Monkeleg is thinking is that if he tries a guest celebrity speaker/singher event again, he needs a celebrity that prominient enough to draw a crowd of donors large enough to be worth it, or command an admission price high enough.

I agree that Ted Nugent is still a big enough act that he probably can't come on just a few months notice, but it won't hurt to ask. Monkeyleg, you should e-mail him on behalf of the WCCA. God forbid, if need be, we might at least get him lined up for '08 if we need him...

If we time events with the NRA convention, could they promote a WCCA event to out-of-towners, or can we ask them to co-sponsor it and stay on the right side of the PAC laws? I know we work pretty closely with the NRA's legislative arm. Could one of the lobbyists that works the halls in Madion put in a word for us? Some of those convention attendees couldbe out-state fat cats, and might write a check for the full $1000 max... If the NRA could funnel a few our way...

Also, is anyone here with the Ohio or Missouri CCW movments? Did they ever run any succsessful fundraisers? What did they do?

Strings
March 11, 2006, 01:15 PM
There might be another angle with the nuge, but I'll have to do some research first...

I REALLY like the idea of doing an all day "shooting fair". I'll float it past a couple of local ranges, and see what happens. And like i said Dick, I'd be more than happy to bring some of my toys out for this (although that means I'll have to reload a bunch of .44AMP)

answerguy
March 11, 2006, 04:30 PM
Another idea. People like to break things. I went by a repair store today that must have had a dozen or more TV sets sitting outside. I'm sure that they would have been happy to have someone haul them away for them. Old computers might be fun to shoot too.

Monkeyleg
March 11, 2006, 06:56 PM
Thanks again for all the suggestions and ideas.

There are banquets and dinners all the time. In fact, there's so many that I don't bother to attend more than one or two. Maybe that's just me. And they seem to bring in the most money when they have raffles, which we can't do.

I really like Rembrandt's "shooting fair" idea. The club I belong to would not allow some of the events, but we could do most of them. The only problem I see is having all the various events going on simultaneously. We'd have to call a cease-fire every two minutes. I'll have to noodle on that.

As I think about my original idea--volunteers bringing their guns so that others can shoot them--I start to get a little selfish. I've tweaked my AR to get it to shoot well under 1 MOA. I don't want to screw that up by having people rapid-fire it and overheat the barrel. Similarly, I don't like scratches on any of my guns. Other folks may feel the same way and may be reluctant to let strangers handle their guns.

I still like migio's idea of "scripts." It would make keeping track of dollars and names simple: attendees just buy however many scripts they think they'll need for the events, the ammo, food, etc.

Whatever the event(s) wind up being, it/they have to bring in more than a few hundred dollars. As AJ mentioned, the banquet with Massad Ayoob as guest speaker took a long time to organize, and only brought in $6000 net. I could have probably gotten a second job at McDonalds, worked the same number of hours, and brought in that much for the cause.

If we're going to get CCW for Wisconsin, we need Governor Doyle out of office. The best way that the WCCA/WCCM can help in that effort is to raise money. Lots of money. Tens of thousands of dollars. I figure we need to raise at least $60,000 in the next seven months to help Doyle's challenger, as well as help pro-CCW candidates for Senate and Assembly.

So, please keep the ideas coming.

Strings
March 11, 2006, 07:18 PM
>I really like Rembrandt's "shooting fair" idea. The club I belong to would not allow some of the events, but we could do most of them. The only problem I see is having all the various events going on simultaneously. We'd have to call a cease-fire every two minutes. I'll have to noodle on that.<

You don't have all the events scheduled for the same time: you have set for different times of day...

BigFatKen
March 12, 2006, 04:35 AM
When I was in school, some culb got an old car and got $$ per 3 wacks with sledge hammer. 50 cents then. More now. You have to take out the glass and gas, oil, first as a safety concern and clean up. It goes everywhere.

Any rifle shoot is more fun if spectators can see/hear something. Falling steel plates, running deer to have clay target head and so on.

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