Street gangs zero in on gun owners (Canada)


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PinnedAndRecessed
March 10, 2006, 09:13 PM
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Render&c=Article&cid=1136675412574&call_pageid=968332188492

Gang members are actively gathering intelligence on legitimate gun collectors who have been targeted in recent years, leading police to warn owners to be careful about who they confide in about their weapons.

No amount of security is going to stop determined thieves from breaking into gun safes, says Inspector Dave McLeod, head of the Toronto police's urban organized crime squad.

"We know they are gathering intelligence on gun owners, but we don't yet know exactly how they are doing it," McLeod said.

Mayor David Miller said it's time to rid the city of privately-owned guns.

"That's exactly why I supported Prime Minister Paul Martin's call for a ban on the ownership of guns," Miller told the Star's Christian Cotroneo yesterday during an anti-gun rally.

"Guns are stolen from so-called legal gun owners and used to shoot people on the streets of Toronto and it's not acceptable," Miller said. "We have to put a stop to it. And the only way to do that is to ban the ownership of guns. I say the rights of us to be safe trump the rights of that so-called legal gun collector and that's why I've called for handguns to be banned in Toronto."

Miller and McLeod were commenting in the wake of a Saturday Star story detailing the fallout from a break-in at the subsidized apartment of Toronto gun collector Mike Hargreaves in late 2003 and the theft of dozens of high-powered weapons, including guns that have already been used on Toronto's streets, some in fatal incidents.

Hargreaves, 70, a well-known firearms instructor, is now living in Orlando, Fla., and hasn't returned to Canada since the theft of his guns. There is an outstanding warrant for his arrest on a charge of improper storage of his firearms.

McLeod hopes a new tip line set up by police will help them gather their own intelligence on how gang members are smuggling guns into the country and just how they find out the source of domestic guns held by registered gun owners. The hotline number is (416) 343-GUNS.

The Hargreaves break-in raises questions about just how safe gun collections are, especially when they are held at residences, but McLeod believes that the biggest source of illegal weapons continues to be those smuggled into Canada from the U.S.

Still, McLeod wonders how Hargreaves could store such a large collection of guns more than 30 in his community housing apartment on Gilder Dr. in Scarborough.

Hargreaves said he did everything legally and was devastated to find out that some of his guns have been linked to violence.

He said he moved into the 31 Gilder Dr. apartment, run by the Toronto Community Housing Corp., a decade ago because his income was low enough to allow him to qualify.

Police say a gun stolen from the apartment was used in September during one of the worst bloodbaths in the city's history. Three men were shot dead during a botched gun deal. A fourth man is facing a charge of second-degree murder in the shooting.

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Standing Wolf
March 10, 2006, 09:27 PM
Gang members are actively gathering intelligence on legitimate gun collectors who have been targeted in recent years, leading police to warn owners to be careful about who they confide in about their weapons.

The most merciless gang in Canada is the government.

MIUper
March 10, 2006, 09:28 PM
It's amazing that they decide the problem is the legal owners and not the gangs. Perhaps if they were as zealous to get the gangs the problem could be solved.

Croyance
March 10, 2006, 09:33 PM
"Guns are stolen from so-called legal gun owners and used to shoot people on the streets of Toronto and it's not acceptable," Miller said. "We have to put a stop to it. And the only way to do that is to ban the ownership of guns. I say the rights of us to be safe trump the rights of that so-called legal gun collector and that's why I've called for handguns to be banned in Toronto."
They steal all sorts of things to use in other crimes, like cars. Lets ban it all.
And the 'so-called legal' part - point to a law to say it isn't. Otherwise they are acting within the law.

No amount of security is going to stop determined thieves from breaking into gun safes, says Inspector Dave McLeod, head of the Toronto police's urban organized crime squad.Shooting an intruder does it.

Point to a string of targeted break-ins, if you want to convince me that street gangs have suddenly become subtle and organized.

I doubt the guy had 'high powered weapons'. I am so tired of this phrase, especially when a .223 is used.

glockamolee
March 10, 2006, 09:55 PM
MIUper posted: "It's amazing that they decide the problem is the legal owners and not the gangs. Perhaps if they were as zealous to get the gangs the problem could be solved."

I'm not surprised at all. Street Gangs create chaos, thereby giving government justification to steal our liberty. Street Gangs will always be Officially Illegal, but unofficially welcome in CERTAIN poliitcal circles.

Just ask Stalin, and Pol Pot, and Noriega, and Hussein, and Idi Amin....

Technosavant
March 10, 2006, 10:06 PM
How much you wanna bet the leak is some people with access to Canada's gun registry? If the government won't confiscate them, some other criminals will.

joab
March 10, 2006, 10:07 PM
"Guns are stolen from so-called legal gun owners and used to shoot people on the streets of Toronto and it's not acceptable," Miller said. "We have to put a stop to it. And the only way to do that is to ban the ownership of guns. I say the rights of us to be safe trump the rights of that so-called legal gun collector and that's why I've called for handguns to be banned in Toronto."I guess creating a new class of criminals is easier than actively going after the existing criminals

He said he moved into the 31 Gilder Dr. apartment, run by the Toronto Community Housing Corp., a decade agoAnd the source of the gangs intelligence source still remains a mystery

Still, McLeod wonders how Hargreaves could store such a large collection of guns more than 30 I have 40 in a locker that takes up a quarter of a small closet

mountainclmbr
March 10, 2006, 10:44 PM
The fear that crimminals create gives socialist, totalitarian politicians the excuses they need to impose even more control over law-abiding citizens. Keeping violent crimminals in jail costs governments money. Letting them out early creates a perceived need for more government control, thus more taxes and less freedom. But some know that this is a contrived situation. I am among them.

Stainless Chili
March 10, 2006, 10:54 PM
... was used in September during one of the worst bloodbaths in the city's history. Three men were shot dead during a botched gun deal...


Three deaths, among felons [if I read "botched gun deal" correctly], and that is a bloodbath ? :scrutiny:

Sistema1927
March 10, 2006, 11:24 PM
"Guns are stolen from so-called legal gun owners and used to shoot people on the streets of Toronto and it's not acceptable," Miller said. "We have to put a stop to it. And the only way to do that is to ban the ownership of guns. I say the rights of us to be safe trump the rights of that so-called legal gun collector and that's why I've called for handguns to be banned in Toronto."

It never ceases to amaze me just how stupid some people can be.

"Since we can't trust criminals, let's make criminals out of more people."

God deliver Canada from such fuzzy thinking.

springerman05
March 10, 2006, 11:30 PM
thats rediculous whos the bad guys here fellow gun collectors or the filth stealing the weapons???:banghead:

ghost squire
March 10, 2006, 11:32 PM
The fear that crimminals create gives socialist, totalitarian politicians the excuses they need to impose even more control over law-abiding citizens.

Almost like... terrorists....

robertbank
March 11, 2006, 12:22 AM
The Toronto mayor is perhaps the cerebral deprived elected representatives in Canada. HIs city is awash in debt and his administration is probably the most inept in Canada. Most of us up here can't figure out why you Americans didn't plow it under when you burned it to the ground back in the early 1800's. Of course we might have turned around and done the same thing to Washington, D.C. when it was it's turn to burn but then from my eyes I think we at this point probably would have been even up.

Old news though really. Toronto elected all Liberals and a handful of NDP in our recent election which was great. The rest of the country elected Conservatives!

To answer somebodies question, yes three murders by firearms is a blood bath up here. I think last year we had approx. 150 firearm homicides in the whole country. Toronto had just under or over 80 murders from all methods in 2005. Total homicides for the whole country amounted to just over 500 or about the same as Chicago or Washington, D.C.

Oh well Parliament opens March 23 and smart money is betting the long gun registry is history.

Take Care

Maxwell
March 11, 2006, 01:10 AM
whos the bad guys here fellow gun collectors or the filth stealing the weapons?

In the eyes of that government? its a toss up.
Seems very odd to me that criminals can needle gun owners so specificly. I'd almost wonder if someone didnt help them to registry data just so a month later a politician can complain about all the guns collectors have put back on the streets.

Youve got thousands of criminals who need thousands of weapons. A few dozen here and there from a home will not shift the balance of power thats already in the lawbreakers favor.

PlayboyPenguin
March 11, 2006, 01:17 AM
They try to say collectors are being targeted and all they can cite is one case from 3 years ago? Talk about a made up scenerio to justify anti-gun hysteria. Seems like an orchestrated fairy tale meant to turn the general public against gun owners and make the owners feel like pariahs that have to hide their collections and not be vocal about their lawful use of firearms to me...and a badly done one at that. :scrutiny:

BigFatKen
March 11, 2006, 02:03 AM
One long pump shotgun plus one hack saw equals one short, under coat weapon.

Ban hack saws. Only union steel workers with a need should have them.

P-35/53
March 11, 2006, 04:01 AM
How does the Street gangs get a list of gun owners in Canada? I thought the Goverment was the only one with that list in Canada ? Are they sharing? And if they know the gangs arte going to targret these homes - why not let the owners protect themselves or do police intellegence work to stop the gangs, after all if they know there is a crime being planned they should try to stop it. Or is this an attempt at coercion gun control.?

Nematocyst
March 11, 2006, 04:30 AM
Aha! So the gangs are watching us (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=187898) on THR!

:uhoh:

swampsniper
March 11, 2006, 05:16 AM
"We know they are gathering intelligence on gun owners, but we don't yet know exactly how they are doing it" .
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It has not been proved yet, but there is a good chance the registry was hacked, or, that someone in the government has released data.

Preacherman
March 11, 2006, 07:33 AM
"Street gangs zero in on gun owners"??? :confused:

They obviously haven't learned from Katrina. When the NO gangs came up here, the headlines were reading "Gun owners zero in on street gangs"! :D

LAK
March 11, 2006, 09:37 AM
"We know they are gathering intelligence on gun owners, but we don't yet know exactly how they are doing it," McLeod said
Probably through the change agents and their worms in his own organization.

--------------------------------------
http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

Thin Black Line
March 11, 2006, 09:44 AM
Toronto is facing rolling black-outs in a couple years due to lack of
both powerplants and infrastructure to support the suburbs, but
the REAL problem with the city are the 1/2 dozen legal gun owners
who still live there......:rolleyes:

One of Many
March 11, 2006, 11:49 AM
The gun collector was charged with the criminal act of improper storage of firearms, and has fled to Florida, where he now lives. Maybe all of Canada's gun owners should move to the U.S. and bring their guns with them. Then the Canadian criminals and politicians can get cozy with each other.

whm1974
March 11, 2006, 02:13 PM
I say the rights of us to be safe trump the rights of that so-called legal gun collector and that's why I've called for handguns to be banned in Toronto."

I would argue that no one really has the right to be safe. And if one right trumps another, then one of them isn't a right to begin with.

-Bill

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