Takedown rifle--was this real or Hollywood?


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ABTOMAT
March 11, 2006, 12:07 AM
I saw a TV program a while back that featured the bad guy using a takedown rifle. Always wondered if it this particular version was real or invented, so I figure I'll ask.

Bolt action
Hunting caliber
Black matte barrel
Scope
Normal pattern stock done like a GP100's grip--black synthetic with light inserts
Forarm and butt detach from center section with receiver
Forarm with barrel locks onto receiver with a quarter-turn

Anyone? Looked real-ish to me, didn't slide together like magic, and ejected a round quite realistically.

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dfariswheel
March 11, 2006, 12:34 AM
There are custom take-down rifles, a few standard production models, and a Hollywood favorite, the Japanese paratrooper take-down Arisaka bolt action rifle.

Among other movies, the Arisaka starred in the original Frank Sinatra version of "The Manchurian Candidate".

Cosmoline
March 11, 2006, 12:41 AM
What program? I'll bet someone can ID it specifically if you remember.

ABTOMAT
March 11, 2006, 12:44 AM
I refuse to answer on the grounds that I might end up in the same league as a guy with toys on his wall or a dude in makeup with his buddy. :)

Cosmoline
March 11, 2006, 12:47 AM
:D It's OK--you're among friends here. Check out all the threads on "Blade Runner" and "Firefly," not to mention "Cowboy Bebop"

ABTOMAT
March 11, 2006, 01:01 AM
OK, think about Firefly some...

At the risk of elevating myself to a whole other level of nerdiness, here are some stills from the digitized copy on my hard drive. :o

Cosmoline
March 11, 2006, 01:12 AM
Ah, Jonathan from "Buffy" with the rifle he was going to use to kill himself. I see your geek and raise you a nerd.

I can't ID it off hand, though it looks real enough. It's probably an existing prop rifle jazzed up with some fancy grips. Certainly takedown rifles of that type do exist, though they are $$$. Typical takedown rifles are two-piece models that aren't quite so elegant. Every extra piece that can be taken off and put back on quickly adds to the engineering problems and costs of the firearm.

mrmeval
March 11, 2006, 01:13 AM
There are several take down firearms. The survival arms one is a favorite if it has an evil looking add on stock. An AR15/M16 can be seperated in two. Many shotguns and double shotguns can be broken down as can double rifles. Thompson contenders have been used with scope. The Keltec SU-16C will fold up. A 1927A1 fits in a cello case.

There is a finger accessable takedown kit for the 10/22. I've seen one that had a carbon fiber minimalist folding and detachable stock, carbon fiber barrel with liner. It's so light it's unreal.

rangerruck
March 11, 2006, 02:48 AM
it almost apears to be an Omega 3, the rarest of the rare, i think only 9 are in existence. tolerances, metalwork, and design done by a space aeronautics firm.

Cosmoline
March 11, 2006, 03:17 AM
By george, I think you may be right! That weird square shaped receiver with the beveled edges is quite similar to an Omega III, as is the unusual two-piece stock. Whedon's gun cred, or at least that of his prop guys, just went up another notch.

ABTOMAT
March 11, 2006, 12:29 PM
You weren't kidding, you guys are pathetic. :D At least no one's using episode numbers. I'm not willing to give Whedon that much credit--"Buffy" still strikes me as a fairly anti show. But fun...

Any information out there on the Omega III? Sounds like an interesting weapon. Didn't find anything via Google.

Cosmoline
March 11, 2006, 04:32 PM
You weren't kidding, you guys are pathetic.

Yes, but we're well armed.

An Omega III, not to be confused with the fatty acid, is an extremely rare custom-made takedown rifle made by Homer Koon out of Alpha Arms in Texas back in the 1970's. AFAIK each one is a custom job and has a stock and style made to order. So it's possible one is floating around out there with a weird stock design like that. I sure don't know of any other rifle with a receiver that looks like that and a two-piece stock, which is why I figured it must be a prop job at first. Ordinarily two-piece stocks are avoided, since they can cause accuracy problems, so apart from SMLE's and leverguns it's very unusual to see them on a rifle.

ABTOMAT
March 11, 2006, 05:51 PM
Well, that do you know? I found four seperate listings on Gunbroker and Gunsamerica, all nearly identical rifles. Here's the one with the best photos:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976676346.htm

I can see some similarities, but I'm still not sold unless the Buffy gun was a serious one-off. The BG's receiver is inside the stock except for where the forarm and barrel lock on. No safety behind the trigger guard and...

Here's a clip of the bolt. That's a Mauser type, right? The Omega one in the last auction photo is pretty unique looking.

Strings
March 11, 2006, 06:41 PM
>I see your geek and raise you a nerd.<

And what category would someone with all 7 seasons on DVD be in?

Only asking 'cause my wife has 'em... not that *I* would ever watch something like that... ;)

Smith357
March 11, 2006, 06:49 PM
The gun in question is a Ruger 77. Notice the shape of the wood inlays and position and shape of the sling swivels. And the 77 has a mauser style action.

It was eiter modified by Hollywood, or a gunsmith to be a takedown

http://www.davesguns.com/serverpics/UsedPage/Ruger-m-77-sb243-01.jpg

Cosmoline
March 11, 2006, 06:53 PM
Model 77 was my first thought, too. But look at that receiver! Esp. in the third photo, there appears to be custom engraved inlays. Who on Earth would do that with a workaday 77? They're usually decorated with duck tape and automotive sealant. Also, the receiver is quite a bit fatter and more square than an M-77's standard Mauser-type receiver. If it's a 77, someobody made it a lot thicker in the middle than it usually is. And who ever heard of a takedown Model 77?

ABTOMAT
March 11, 2006, 07:17 PM
Thank you! There's no question it's a Ruger 77, or at least based on one. But I'm still wondering if it's a real takedown version someone made or purely a prop. Look in the third photo--you can see where there's a metal interface between the receiver and barrel, and where it is in relation to the inlay on the stock. Looks like there's an extra inch or two compared with a normal one.

Thain
March 11, 2006, 09:34 PM
How exactly is Buffy (or its spinoff, Angel) antigun?

I see your geek, your nerd, and raise you a complete set of both Buffy, Angel, and Firefly on DVD. (Plus the comics!)

ABTOMAT
March 11, 2006, 09:41 PM
OK, you win. Until someone posts they own a $3000 reproduction Spike jacket.

Angel wasn't anti-gun, but lots of Buffy episodes struck me as such. Mostly earlier seasons, I can't remember specific references or episodes. Maybe I should watch all 144 and see if one writer was behind it?

akodo
March 11, 2006, 11:55 PM
doesn't sig saur make a takedown rifle under the blazer line?

regarding buffy being anti-gun, the biggest anti-gun part of that show is that Zander never went out and got himself a remington 870 and some training, and then been useful to the team.

Why not do this? probably because they knew kids really couldn't learn magic or have pet vampires for friends, etc etc, but kids might just follow Zander's example and shoot themselves, that's the only logic I can see for failing to develop this angle. Of course, tons of kids watched the lone ranger, and couldn't get an indian sidekick or a white horse, but COULD gain access to firearms, but never seemed to shoot eachother or themselves very often.

mrmeval
March 12, 2006, 12:17 AM
Actually Sarah Michelle Geller made statements that she did not blame guns for Columbine.

http://www.nrawinningteam.com/moved/buffy.html

Cosmoline
March 12, 2006, 02:11 AM
That particular episode got bumped and banished for awhile because of the Columbine events. It had been made prior to the school shootings.

Strings
March 12, 2006, 03:55 AM
>a complete set of both Buffy, Angel, and Firefly on DVD. (Plus the comics!)<

Now if you can only learn to count... ;)

I never caught any anti-gun attitude from Buffy.... Let's see, she used a rocket launcher in season 2 (which was a great way around the "no weapon forged" thing), dated commando guy for QUITE awhile (and used a kinda gun for a bit there), Zander had the whole "army guy" thing from season 2. Only time I remember seeing anything remotely anti was Buffy telling a bank guard that guns don't work on demons (season 6, IIRC)...

griz
March 12, 2006, 04:38 AM
Looks like a modified 77 to me. I didn't see the show, so I don't know if they really made the barrel detachable.

Have you noticed that in Hollywood, all takedown firearm components, including scopes, stocks, and bipods, can be reassembeled with a 1/4 turn twist, and make the same mettalic sound as a shotgun slide?

rangerruck
March 12, 2006, 04:50 AM
somewhere on the rimfirecentral forums, there is a auction for ONE omega 3. the tickets are 50 bucks i think, the rifle is valued at 65k. one was given to the financial backer of homer Koon, one was given to john Wayne. dont know where the others went or where this one comes from.

xring44
March 12, 2006, 06:15 AM
J P Sauer makes a nice takedown rifle, don't remember the model number and never seen one disassembled/reassembled. Never seen any of the movies refered to above, the hollywood thing always has the shooter install the scope, twist the elevation knobs a few clicks, then the same time with the windage knobs...........must be able to "feel" the departure from zero....

CajunBass
March 12, 2006, 07:21 AM
My wife. Yes my WIFE is a Buffy fan.

I keep glancing at it just in case she's ever on camera wearing a black trench coat, and 4" heels. Other than that, I wouldn't think of watching it.

Geno
March 12, 2006, 07:30 AM
I had a Sig Sauer 202 Safari, chambered in .375 H&H. That was a take-down rifle, and one could purchase barrels in .300 Win, .338 Win. and use the same bolt. If one purchased the smaller-faced bolt, one could purchase barrels form .25-06 through .30-06. Yet another bolt face diameter opened the way for the smaller magnums like 7mm Rem. It was one of my most accurate rifles, right along side of the Sako Finn Bear.

Doc2005

rust collector
March 12, 2006, 09:40 AM
Stock is reminiscent of a canoe-paddle M77 with wood inserts and new joints. HS precision does a lot of takedown rifles. Haven't seen the Omega, but if this is one I'll bet they start with the Ruger stock or something similar.

Son and spouse are big Buffy fans. I'm a Jimmy Buffet fan ;)

ABTOMAT
March 12, 2006, 12:40 PM
Like I said, I can't remember specific instances. It usually wasn't bad, but it still irked me.

The finale of season 3 was also delayed due to the Columbine shootings, but this time it wasn't a popular descision.

I always thought it would have made sense for Giles to go armed. Would have worked in the context of the show given his past. Half the time they were fighting creatures that could be killed with guns.

Lesse now, there was the dart gun kept in the library. Spike had both a small semi pistol and a sawed off shotgun at one point. Anya owned a gun in the one where Xander split in two. Buffy tried another rocket launcher to kill the principal. Oh hell, I'm growing a pocket protector just typing this.

Strings
March 12, 2006, 01:37 PM
Don't remember her trying to deal with the mayor with a rocket, although several of the senior class were toting flame throwers at graduation (and people wonder what the appeal of the show was?)...

The ONE gun tat should have appeared was a sawed-off side by. Use the old "CIA Black book" plans to make a shotgun into a grenade launcher, and cut off the grenade part: you know have a two shot "stake gun". Used that back when I played Vampire: the Masquerade...

Wow... my glasses just grew tape on 'em... :neener:

ABTOMAT
March 12, 2006, 02:35 PM
Didn't use a rocket launcher on the mayor. She tried to kill the new principal in a season 7 episode. The one with the mind altering jacket.

Now that I think about it more, why do TV commandos always suffer from Mini-14-itis?

Strings
March 12, 2006, 06:53 PM
I noticed that too. It especially didn't make sense for the Initiative troops to carry Mini 14s, given that the German commandos in the "Slayerfest" episode in season 3 used ARs (they even mentioned it: "A couple German guys with ARs...")

bgrayson
November 21, 2009, 06:52 PM
this is not an Omega III it is a Ruger 77. The Omega has a square bolt face.

dirtyjim
November 21, 2009, 09:57 PM
a lot of the newer takedowns are made so that the bolt lugs lock into the barrel rather than the receiver. there is less wear that way & they are supposed to return to zero better. instead of the front of the receiver being threaded its reamed straight back past the bolt lugs. the barrel shank is turned to about .001 under the diameter the receiver was reamed. to take the rifle down all you do is remove the bolt & pull the forearm release then slide the barrel & forearm forward out of the receiver.

the older style threaded takedowns were done a couple different ways & actions that have course or square threads like mausers & springfields seem to wear better than actions with finer threads like remington & winchesters. full thread takedowns also wear better than interrupted thread takedowns. on a interrupted thread takedown three equally spaced sections of threads are broached out of the receiver & barrel so you only have to rotate the barrel 1/3rd of to turn to release it. the interrupted thread takedown is good if your to lazy to spin the barrel a few turns or your to cheap to buy a nice set of talley Q/D rings for your takedown rifle to keep the scope from hitting the forearm & stopping you from being able to unscrew the barrel from the receiver.

there are a couple different ways to attach the forearm & latch to the barrel. i think the best way is to use a sleeved rear sight base to attach the forearm & latch.
using a soldered on sleeve also lets you easily adjust for wear in the future if you also use a banded front sight & barrel band sling swivel. with no sights its even easier because you wouldn't have to line the front sight & swivel base up.
some builders just cut two dovetails in the bottom of the barrel for two winchester 70 style forerarm hold downs & inlet the latch to the forearm.
most takedowns use 1/8" steel plates where the stock & forearm meet.
the plates are usually screwed to the stock & forearm but sometimes they are also tied into the bottom metal & latch assembly.
the latch is usually a shotgun style lever that attaches to the steel plate in the forearm or attaches to the bottom of the sleeve that holds the forearm on. some of the levers are hooked to a rod that slides through a hole in both plates locking everything together. some builders make the end of the lever with a hook shape that goes through a rectangular hole in the forearm plate & hooks into a corresponding rectangular hole in the receiver plate camming the stock & forearm together making them as solid as a 1pc stock.

i have a takedown project rifle i'm slowly piecing together. its being built as a takedown version of the mauser model c. i still need to order the barrel & scrounge a couple of other parts. the plate has been fitted to the buttstock, i cant fit the plate to the forearm untill i get the barrel & rear sight sleeve.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/oberndorf%20gew98/oberndorftakedown1-1.jpg

i'm going to slightly extend the front of the bottom metal so it butts up to the plate then tie them both together with a countersunk machine screw.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v36/dirtyjim/oberndorf%20gew98/oberndorftakedown2.jpg

GunTech
November 22, 2009, 12:51 AM
If you want a takedown, HS precision makes them and they are very accurate.

http://www.hsprecision.com/shop/rifles/takedown

Many companies have made takedowns in the past, from John Rigby on down.

Sunray
November 22, 2009, 01:16 AM
"...from the digitized copy on my hard drive..." Well, that is kind of extreme(snicker), but there are all kinds of take down rifles. They can be worth a big pile of money too. Browning, for example, makes a take down BLR. MSRP is a grand US.
Mind you, most movie rifles aren't real. Any more than looking through a scope lets you count freckles. Saw a AR-7 being used at extreme range in one movie. Forget which one. Might have been some TV show.

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