[Mooseman]

I have a confession to make. I stink at bargaining. If a listed price is higher than I want to pay I generally just move on. I know we have a ton of very experienced buyers and sellers at THR. Anyone care to share some tips, tricks or ettiquete?

[308win]

Bargaining doesn't have to be (and shouldn't be) confrontational. Don't unjustly dennigrate the seller's product or price but be prepared to matter-of-factly point out defects, etc. that affect the product's value. Know the value of the product you are evaluating. Make a fair offer with some negotiating room but don't lowball as that will often make the seller harder to deal with and may give him the impression you aren't a qualified buyer and he will tune you out. If you have a limit don't be afraid to tell him so at the appropriate time (when you have reached an impass). If he doesn't want your business he will tell you so and don't be afraid to walk away. Some sellers won't bargain so don't take refusal personnally. Treat the seller like you want to be treated and you will find yourself making some deals and you will occasionally run into the one who is just trying to shave you - walk away as life is too short to try to do business with this type as they will screw you at every turn if you let them.

[Hemicuda]

another trick... as you make a lower than asking price offer, make sure you offer the cash, make it a cash, actual currency type offer... money talks, and all that... (sometimes, I even flash the cash...)

[Eskimo Jim]

Moose,
I typically use either of these two approaches for negotiating a price:

I ask the seller what the best price he can sell his item at. If he approaches what I want to spend, then I may accept the offer or counter offer with a slightly lower amount.

Another method that I use is I ask the seller directly if they are willing to part with the item for $X. Sometimes they say yes and sometimes they'll counter with "gee, the best I can really do on that is ...".

I've found that 25-30% is about the best I can do for negotiating. Also, I wouldn't sit there and point out every flaw in the item. I'd point out a couple of things if they were bargain breakers to me such as no box, overly worn if the grading was borderline etc.

I was looking at a revolver and the price said $350. I asked what the seller would take for it and he said that the best he could do was $325. I was from out of state so I would have had to have paid about $25 to transfer it etc. then he says that he'd charge me shipping too at $40. Well, that just put the price up around $390. So much for a $25 dollar 'savings'. I kept looking and found a better bargain somewhere else. The same item was $330 at a store I hadn't looked at before. Even with the sales tax I came out about where I expected to about $25 saved. My budget was $375.

Another time there was a small item at a show that I wanted to buy. The price was $15. I was tired so just ponied up the $15. They seller said to me, "actually I'll take $12 for it"! I wouldn't expect that to happen on a big ticket item and it sure was a surprise to me.

I rarely try to negotiate at a shop unless I'm trading something in. At shows, I try to get a feel for the seller before I try to negotiate. I try to get a read from the seller in that I observe how he treats potential buyers. Does the seller brush people away, think that their stuff is the best thing since sliced bread etc etc.

Negotiation is an art and what may work with one seller or one item, may not work for another seller or item.

good luck.

-Jim

[HankB]

It often helps to take out a wad of cash, make a show of looking at it, and say "I can go up to $XXX . . . interested?" (Uh . . . if depending on the circumstances, you may not want to flash a lot of cash, then just say something like "I can pay $XXX right now - cash.")

If not - you have to be willing to walk away.

For every deal I make, I walk away from several.

[hksw]

I'm not a bargainer myself by a friend of mine is and does so 100% of the time when buying a gun. (He's a VP of operations for a small company and nows how to haggle.)

The one time I did bargain was with my regular local shop. Picked up an ordered from HK NIB P7M8. During the purchasing/background process, I asked if they could give me a break on extra mags they had under glass and they gave me the break ($5 of ea). The idea behind this story is when buying accessories for a gun purchase, it's quite easy to slip in a bargain.

For the gun, a simple, "Is that the best price?" or "Can you knock a little off?" isn't over the top. The worse that will come off of those simple questions is a, "Yes." or "No." with not feelings hurt. One tactic my friend uses is a multiple purchase. That really knocks prices down. I have told him about the notification the dealer must send in for multiple handguns but he seems OK with that. In fact, he did just that today. Knocked off a total of $100 and tax for two guns. (Total price for him was $1100 OTD.)

[answerguy]

It often helps to take out a wad of cash, make a show of looking at it, and say "I can go up to $XXX . . . interested?" (Uh . . . if depending on the circumstances, you may not want to flash a lot of cash, then just say something like "I can pay $XXX right now - cash.")

Yes, that is true, especially if the deal is being made from the trunk of a car.:p

[Werewolf]

If not - you have to be willing to walk away.And there in lies the key to successful bargaining/dickering.

If you walk away and the seller doesn't call you back he's at his bottom. If he does you know you've got 'im. And I'm here to tell ya unless you're an expert at reading people you've got to walk away at least once if you're going to get the best deal possible at the time.

That said bargaining in America is - well - not really done well. People are too sensitive and they just don't get that it is business. I'm talking at the individual's level. Corporate negotiating is a whole 'nother matter. That we do well.

If you want to really learn to bargain well like I did try hanging out on the west coast of Africa for about 6 months. There ain't no such thing as lowballing - well there is but you'll know pretty quick if you've done it 'cuz yur opponent in the game will go off on you in a manner that you'll recognize immediately. He's not insulted - he just knows he's either dealing with a rank amateur or someone that really knows his business. Either way he won't take the offer serious and it'll be obvious.

Am I any good? Well I've lived in OKC for 21 years, my adult daughters all insist I go with them and do the deal when buying a car and there are quite a few car salesmen in OKC that just turn around and go another way when they see me on their lot. :evil: One guy in particular I've dealt with at three different dealers :D and the only reason is because he's a manager and his salespukes run off and get 'im after about half an hour or so. The last time he just shook his head when he walked in the office and saw me. He wasted no time - the first words out of his mouth were, "OK - let's get this over with quick - what exactly is your best offer - I don't have all night". I told him - he said OK - deal done.

Don't try to rip off the guy you're dealing with. He'll know, you'll know and unless he's really desperate no deal is gonna get done.

For a bargaining session to be successful both sides need to walk away from the deal feeling as if they got a good one. Usually that is possible if both parties are realistic. If not it's best to just walk away.

[PinnedAndRecessed]

I just bought a S&W M66, no dash at a gun show. The vendor was asking $399. I offered $350. He countered with $380. I said the best I could do was $360. He said he couldn't go any lower than $375. I asked him if he would take $370. He hesitated. My wife said, "Come on, it's just $5." He sold it to me for $370.

You're not going to insult anybody as long as you're truly ready to buy. If, however, you waste his time trying to negotiate, and then say you're only looking, well, that's insulting.

[Stevie-Ray]

Your best ammunition is to know what others are charging in dealing with new guns. I visit the gun shows often. When it comes time to buy, I generally know what to expect. There are a wide array of prices for the same gun oft times. I usually will deal with the lower prices as they usually have the largest volume and will come down even lower. I've bought many a gun at a lower price than I could have gotten it when I had a FFL. These guys deal in mass quantities, and get screaming deals on say 20 of a certain gun. It's great when they want to share their good fortune.

[Topgun]

Just be sure not to EVER wheedle on something that's priced too low or at a price you are willing to pay.

Never just walk away. Always say "I may be back" while leaving. Because you might and if you just walked away without the comment, the seller has you at a disadvantage.

And never......NEVER.......NEVER...... walk away if the seller accepts your bid. Only a creep, cretin, goose, garbage people reneges on a bid with a weasely "let me .....thiiiinnnnnnkkkkkk......about it." :fire:

I will NEVER sell anything EVER to someone who offers me a price and then has to go think about it.

They are NEVER welcome back. I would throw the item away before letting them have it at ANY price when that happens. And it does.

:)

[Nathanael_Greene]

Another element of negotiating: Do your homework.

If you want to buy something, know what a fair price is. If you want an item worth $1000, don't offer the seller $100.

Negotiate in good faith, too. If your seller meets your terms, take them.

Same goes for sellers. Don't accept a deal and then change the rules.

(I screwed up recently on an offer from a seller, and did something really stupid, which I realized later and profusely apologized for; he didn't buy from me, and I don't blame him, but it was an honest mistake on my part.)

Some easy things to say to a seller, to help you get started in negotiating. These are yes/no questions, which can be easier:

"Do you have a discount for cash?"
"Is your price firm?"
"Is that your best price?"
"Is that the total price?" (If you're not sure if the price includes sales tax, for example.)

Then you can get to more specific questions, like:

"What would you take for that?"
"Would you go XXX dollars?"

Remember, a good deal leaves both parties satisfied.

Negotiating takes practice. Remember that in some settings, negotiation is expected, so they can be good places to get some experience. (Cruising pawn shops can be good practice, for example.)

Good luck, and remember to have fun!

[tuckerdog1]

I read an article about a book ( I haven't read the actual book ) called The Seven Magic Words. Those words are
" Is that the best you can do?" The author says he uses them everywhere, and almost always gets a better than marked price.
I started trying it, and it does almost always work. Even in places you might not expect, like retails stores, where you'd think the prices are pretty much set. Sometimes have to ask to speak to a floor manager, but usually save some dough.
I've tried it a few times at gun shows, and have always had the price drop.
As to showing a wad of cash, I'd keep the wad close to the amount you say you can spend. Looks a little suspicious to say I can only spend $400, when you're clutching $1500.

Enjoy the bargining. The friendly give & take is 1/2 the fun.

Tuckerdog1

[Standing Wolf]

The first step in negotiating anything is to make sure you're ready, willing, and able to walk away if you don't get the price you're willing to pay.

If you can't turn around and walk away at any point, you can't really negotiate from a position of strength.

Everybody speaks cash.

[kirkcdl]

I usually offer about 10-15 percent lower than I expect to pay.then when I get the counter-offer,I'll say"Why don't you meet me halfway,that way I can tell all my friends what a great haggler I am."With a LARGE smile,it works about 2/3 of the time.However,as others have said,if it doesn't work,walk.If it's something at an already decent price,and it's something you can't live without,don't waste everybodys time,just buy it...:D

[19112XS]

Standing Wolf pretty much nailed it.

[Dionysusigma]

I'm sorry if the following is perceived as a flame, or a trolling remark; but since I feel quite strongly about it, I have to comment.

SOMETIMES THE PRICE LISTED IS WHAT IT'S GOING TO COST.

Every single dang day, I get people coming in and trying to haggle. I tell them the truth-- "they (the management... specifically the store owner) are pretty set on the price. Sorry, but I can't lower the price, nor 'throw in' anything."

I just work there--and it really ticks me off when somebody can't grasp this concept. They ask for all kinds of free stuff (especially magazines). I repeat the statement again.

One "gentleman" (term used loosely) that came in yesterday to buy an Hk USP Tactical never quit complaining. "There's a scratch on the slide." "I can't reach the mag release without shifting my grip." "I want two more magazines. No charge, of course." "Can you throw in some ammo?" "What's a hundred dollars off the price to a place like this?" "Go find your manager and ask him." (I had, and the response was the same--no discounts.) "Ask him again."

And then, the thing that really pissed me off...
(Case for the gun comes out of the warehouse with a bit of dust opposite the handle)
Him: "Where the heck did y'all keep this? There's dust and dirt all over the case!"
Me: (trying my absolute best to keep cool, and focusing on the 4473) "In the warehouse, sir. I'm sure the dirt just brushes right off."
Him: "Looks like you left it sitting on the floor! How do you know the case isn't damaged?"
Me: (stops, looks over every inch of the case and its contents) "I don't see anything broken with anything here."
Him: "Well, maybe you can demonstrate your theory and brush off all that crap that's on there!"

:fire: :banghead: :banghead: :cuss: :banghead: :fire: :banghead:

I grudingly brushed off half the dust. I'm sure he can get the rest. :barf:

Asking is okay. However, if the answer is a polite "No," then don't push it. Sometimes there really is nothing we can do. *sigh* :(

[Archie]

Don't let the seller know how badly you want it. Obviously you want it; just don't let on how really desparate you are to get it.

Conversely, Don't let the buyer know how much you want to sell it.

Always be polite. There's more than enough jerks to go around. A little honest humor never hurts.

I found a model 20 S&W at a gunshow. It had been rechambered for .357 Magnum - would probably make the attorneys dance with joy and collector's cringe - but I liked it. It had a fair blue finish the ugliest 'green camo' Pachmayer grips I've ever seen. Price tag said $300.

I looked at it for a moment and asked, "How much without the grips?"

He looked at me for just a moment and responded, "I'll go down to $250; but you have to take the grips."

We struck a deal. I did put a decent set of proper wooden grips on said beast.

[k_semler]

Give them the look like "your jewing me" and casually look at the door like you have somewhere else to be. They will go lower. When they go lower look at the like "a little high". They will then offer you again. Give them the look of "I don't know" and give them a puff like your debating with yourself. They will go still lower. Look at the item that you wish to purchase logningly, and back up at them like, "huh?". They will give you another offer, Turn your back and slowly start to walk, looking at the item once in a while while you're walking. You'll get thier low ball. Buy whatever you want to buy, that's as low as they'll go. That's how I dicker, and it seems to work at least in Tijuana, MX when buying silver and cigars.

[Monkeybear]

Basically I try to stay word from the phrase "jew/jewing with me" or any other offesive language when I deal. I also like to keep my sentences on the short side and keep out any sort of lingo or slang. I stay unemotional and never, ever call anyone on their BS. For example if someone tells me that they can't sell me something for the price I want such and such reason and I don't believe them I simply excuse myself politely and go somewhere to double check my facts. If I find their reasons to be BS I just don't go back.

Like someone else said, sometimes the price is the price and you just gotta pay it or walk out the door.

At pawn shops I will usually look first and then come back the next day to buy. If they wont make me a deal on something that cost 450$ I simply pull out 450$ and say "This is all I have, can you make it 450$ OTD?" If nothing else at least I usually at least dont have to pay taxes on it.

If its already a fair price I just give the "Is that the best you can do" and then pay what they want for it.

[redneck2]

As above, using non-offensive language is typically the key. Something to the tune of "is this price firm???" or "any wiggle room on this"

Most of the replies center around buying from a dealer. Your best deals come from individuals. I have a good friend that just bought a Harley. Guy's father died years ago and it just sat under a cover in the garage. Bike is worth every bit of 18k. Guy started by asking for the 18k. He got it for $10,500.

Actually, the key is getting the seller to have the sale already done in their mind....already having the money spent before they get it

[joab]

The first response from 308Win nailed it.
The best advice added was be willing to walk away POLITELY
And then this piece of experienced wisdom
Asking is okay. However, if the answer is a polite "No," then don't push it. Sometimes there really is nothing we can doWhen the price is firm it's firm accept it or stop wasting everybody's time.

Above all be polite/professional. If you huff or puff or or plop cash down in some grandiose manner like I'm gonna go for it like a baby to Pam Anderson's boob the price starts to set like concrete in my mind and may start going up in the form of shipping charges or extras not given.
The opposite is also true
I have been known to give extras not asked for if I felt that I was treated respectfully, even when I've been dickered down

Someone else said that they would throw it away before they sold it to a jerk, there are many of us out there.

[Lone_Gunman]

Someone else said that they would throw it away before they sold it to a jerk, there are many of us out there.

Thats why there are so many out-of-business previous gun store owners. The dollar rules. Leave your pride at home. I won't intentionally insult anyone, but some gun store guys are very very sensitive people and are easily offended in the course of negotiation. You pretty much just have to skip over those guys, and find someone willing to play ball. It is important of course to know how much is a fair price for what you are looking for. Obviously 100 dollars for a Colt SAA would not work, but if someone offered me that for one of mine I would not be offended as much as I would be rolled over with laughter, as I would assume the person making the offer has no clue what he is bidding on.

['Card]

Smiling and just being friendly can make this whole process a hell of a lot easier.

If you're new to haggling, then you're probably nervous about it. When you get nervous, it's natural for a lot of people to get defensive and short. That kind of attitude hurts your sucess rate with bargaining a lot. Instead, try having a little bit of a sense of humor about the whole thing.

Example from one of my recent purchases - price on the tag was $300:
Me: "That's a nice piece. You reckon you could come off the price a little bit so I could take it home?"
Owner: "We could probably work on that, I guess. What do you have in mind?"
Me: "Well, I'll level with you. If I spend more than $200 today my wife will probably shoot me with it when I get it home."
Owner: (laughs) "Well, I hate losing customers that way, but I don't think I can go that low. I can see maybe $250."
Me: "$250 sounds pretty fair if you toss in a box of WWB and one of those extra magazines over there. That way if the wife does decide to shoot me, I won't have to wait around forever while she loads the magazine a second time."
Owner: (laughing again) "Not too good a shot, is she?"
Me: "What she lacks in accuracy, she makes up for in enthusiasm."
Owner: "OK, OK. You got a deal."

Then you shake the guy's hand, then you pay up immediately. No sour grapes. No thinking about it. You make a deal. You shake. You pay. Everybody's happy, and it's a store you won't mind going back to, and one where the owner won't dread seeing you darken his door.

[joab]

Thats why there are so many out-of-business previous gun store owners. To believe that I would have to believe that all gun buyers are jerks
The dollar rules. Leave your pride at home.Anybody that will allow themselves to be blatantly disrespected for a dollar deserves to be out of business.

But my comments were from a private seller's perspective

[erik the bold]

Three words: "Negotiate to Win"

This book has a wealth of information, and can be had inexpensively

At Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0136113850/qid=1142178035/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/103-7234136-7683850?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)

[answerguy]

And then, the thing that really pissed me off...
(Case for the gun comes out of the warehouse with a bit of dust opposite the handle)
Him: "Where the heck did y'all keep this? There's dust and dirt all over the case!"
Me: (trying my absolute best to keep cool, and focusing on the 4473) "In the warehouse, sir. I'm sure the dirt just brushes right off."
Him: "Looks like you left it sitting on the floor! How do you know the case isn't damaged?"
Me: (stops, looks over every inch of the case and its contents) "I don't see anything broken with anything here."
Him: "Well, maybe you can demonstrate your theory and brush off all that crap that's on there!"

I would suggest a sales course for your establishment. Try dusting off those cases before bringing them out to the public.

[answerguy]

Three words: "Negotiate to Win"

This book has a wealth of information, and can be had inexpensively

What's the least you would take for your copy? :) Can you go any lower than that? :neener:

[Shotgun12]

In years past, I've probably attended "way too many" shows (I enjoy looking), but I've found it's often best if you can engage the dealer in a conversation (if, or when he has time), concerning the item(s) you're looking at .... many will talk as long as you let 'em. This can often clue you in, as to whether he's a BS'er, or if he's honest, and knows his stuff. I'm often surprised at the amount of valuable 'intel' I could pick up, by just keeping mouth shut - ears open. ;)

One thing you don't want to do .... and I've seen it happen many times, is that someone will walk up to an item, and either, "by their actions".... or they'll say something like; "Wow, this is exactly what I've been looking for", (practically jumping up and down). Don't expect much of a price break.

Don't be afraid to ask questions. Do your homework, but don't try to BS anyone either - don't insult the man's intelligence. When it come to "flaws", let them know that you're aware of 'em - without making a major issue of it. Maybe ask about them (he may not even be aware of it) .... what he thinks it would take to repair it (if there's a substantial "problem"), it's best to approach sellers, when they have the time to chat, if possible. When it comes to discussing imperfections, much will depend on what the item is, and whether it's "new or used", price, etc.

Once they know you're an informed, "serious" (& reasonable) potential buyer, it usually, becomes a bit easier to talk $. When you do get down to talking $ .... unless he has already made it clear that the price is "firm", I would always just ask him what his "bottom-dollar, out-the-door, 'cash' price" is.
I'd leave out any "theatrics", unless you're really good at it. (they've no-doubt seen it all) :rolleyes:
If he's open to negotiation, he'll knock a bit off .... take your time, look it over some more - ask if "it's the best he can do?". If it's still seems a bit too much, and he won't take a lower offer .... ask if he'd maybe throw some other item in, with the deal, (check out the rest of his "inventory", in advance) or at least sell you the other item(s) at 'his cost'. If he doesn't seem receptive (keep it friendly), don't get him p'd-off, by harping on minor flaws and such, especially if it's a used item .... if it's that bad - leave it alone.

If it's in your "ballpark", or if he accepts your offer, BUY IT. If not, move on .... you might find the same item 10 minutes later, for less. If you do walk away, always leave on cordial terms .... you might find that his price was the best in the house, or he may have the 'only one' of that particular item. If this is the case .... after another hour of looking, you may find yourself back at his table .... hoping that he still has your 'prize', and is willing to sell it to you, at the price he quoted earlier. :D

[boofus]

Try to see what the gun normally comes with. Sometimes you will find a particular gun with an item missing from the case, like a magazine or a cleaning kit. You can sometimes talk them into knocking a few more bucks off the price if you mention that those items are supposed to come with the guns and his doesn't.

If you are lacking in scruples you can try to get a discount for a 'missing' item that doesn't come with the gun to begin with, but if the dealer catches you it might not be pretty. :evil:

[Husker1911]

The second post was from 308Win. It could have nearly stopped there. It bears repeating, as his words of wisdom are profound:
"Bargaining doesn't have to be (and shouldn't be) confrontational. Don't unjustly dennigrate the seller's product or price but be prepared to matter-of-factly point out defects, etc. that affect the product's value. Know the value of the product you are evaluating. Make a fair offer with some negotiating room but don't lowball as that will often make the seller harder to deal with and may give him the impression you aren't a qualified buyer and he will tune you out. If you have a limit don't be afraid to tell him so at the appropriate time (when you have reached an impass). If he doesn't want your business he will tell you so and don't be afraid to walk away. Some sellers won't bargain so don't take refusal personnally. Treat the seller like you want to be treated and you will find yourself making some deals and you will occasionally run into the one who is just trying to shave you - walk away as life is too short to try to do business with this type as they will screw you at every turn if you let them."

I sold guns for twenty years, and doubt I could have summed the proper words as well as this man. Good stuff. Regards, Dave P.