If you were going to buy an AR-15...


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SilentStalker
March 14, 2006, 02:46 AM
If you were going to buy an AR15 then what company would you go with and why? I am currently looking at Rock River Arms, a company called CCMG, Colt (of course), and Bushmaster. Anybody got any fedback about any of these companies and there experience with any of their AR15's?

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creampuff
March 14, 2006, 02:57 AM
I was in the market for a midlength, so that limited my choices to mainly CMMG and Rock River. I went with CMMG, and was very happy.

What type of AR are you shopping around for?

MagnumCaliber357
March 14, 2006, 03:05 AM
Smith and wesson just started making em you should check them out too, be the first one on the block ...err the road;)

jagdpanzer347
March 14, 2006, 08:52 AM
I've put thousands of rounds thru a Colt MT6551 without a malfunction or problem of any kind. Thinking of a Bushmaster M4A3 for my next one though, feel the need for a "shorty".
-jagdpanzer

DirksterG30
March 14, 2006, 08:59 AM
I was in the market for a midlength, and ended up with a Rock River Elite. I'm very pleased with it. Excellent fit & finish. I'd recommend them to anyone looking for an AR. Incidentally, I bought mine from www.eaglefirearms.net

shooting time
March 14, 2006, 10:01 AM
I have a Bushmaster with wilson match bbl & match trigger it shoots great and I just built a ar with a DPMS lower and colt upper. the DPMS lower looks and functions great .

Lennyjoe
March 14, 2006, 10:04 AM
Guess I'm the odd man out cause I have been shooting the hell out of my Olympic arms AR-15 without fail for over 2 years now. Thousands of rounds thru it at this point.

My next AR will be built by hand. No need to spend all that money when you can get Stag arms lowers at a good price and uppers/barrels with whatever combo you desire.

Check into putting one together.

Redlg155
March 14, 2006, 10:25 AM
My last AR was built up using CMMG components (stripped lower, complete upper). They are a bit more pricey, but well worth the cost in my opinion since I wanted a good chrome lined 10.3" barrel/upper and I didn't quite trust the other suppliers to deliver me one that would function perfectly out of the box.

However, when it comes to standard shorty and full length AR15s, just about any AR from the major manufacturers will serve you quite well.


Good Shooting
Red

LoadAmmo
March 14, 2006, 10:42 AM
I'd buy a Complete STAG lower from EagleFirearms.net and then slap a POF-USA Gas-Piston upper on it.

http://www.pof-usa.com/gaspistonuppers/gaspistonuppers.htm

Specifically one of these:
http://www.pof-usa.com/P-416/P-416upper.htm

The-Fly
March 14, 2006, 11:09 AM
RRA or Bushmaster are great picks. I tend to prefer Bushmaster because all their barrels are chrome lined, and they use 4150 steel instead of 4140 steel, but RRA is still very good.

Bartholomew Roberts
March 14, 2006, 11:15 AM
I've got parts or equipment from every manufacturer you listed. I would recommend deciding on what options you want and then buying from the manufacturer that offers you those options at the best price.

Correia
March 14, 2006, 11:41 AM
I sell all of these. Quality is pretty good across the board. Now from a service/customer relations perspective, I always end up using Rock River, and recommending it to my customers. 2nd I go with Bushmaster. If somebody wants something different/custom/fancy, then I end up getting them something like POF. DPMS has been good to work with also. Armalite has been okay.

I hate dealing with Colt. Their service sucks. Their attitude sucks. And frankly, after dealing in their guns, I'm just not as impressed as some of you. We've dealt with a bunch of problem guns from Colt. And the way they handled the issue did not leave me with a good opinion of them.

ID_shooting
March 14, 2006, 12:14 PM
The way I see it, no matter who makes it, as long as it is assembled correctly, any AR from any company is a good one. My expirience (Army armorer) tells me it doesn't really matter.

Fingolfin
March 14, 2006, 12:52 PM
Decide what kind of AR you want first, then what your budget is. That will narrow it down. Myself I wanted an mid-length carbine, so didn't have as many choices as if I had wanted say an "M4" style. I went with Rock River Arms because of quality for the price, and past experiences that were good. My only complaint with RRA is the heavy barrels they use, however that is something that can be fixed.

mountainbiker
March 14, 2006, 01:47 PM
I have an Armalite AR10 (.308) and love it. I'd be tempted to get the Armalite version .223 myself.

Rockstar
March 14, 2006, 02:01 PM
If you're looking for a complete rifle, it'd be hard to beat the Rock River. I shoot a Bushmaster, but might have picked a Rock River with chrome-lined barrel, had they been available when I bought the Bushy.

FWIW, ALL Bushmaster barrels aren't chrome-lined. :)

poortrader
March 14, 2006, 02:07 PM
I went with RRA because I think that you get the most for your money with the RRA.

Justin
March 14, 2006, 02:07 PM
Rock River makes good stuff.

Also, JP. *drool*

Dr.Rob
March 14, 2006, 03:45 PM
I'm wistful I still want a Colt.

Rob96
March 14, 2006, 03:45 PM
Have experience with 3 different DPMS rifles, and all have been positive. Great product.

Dave Markowitz
March 14, 2006, 03:52 PM
Based on my experience with my Colt AR6721, I'd buy another Colt.

Phantom Warrior
March 14, 2006, 03:53 PM
Have had no problems with either of my Bushmasters...

BigG
March 14, 2006, 03:55 PM
I've been shooting Colt AR15s for about 30 years and have owned 7 of them. They are reliable. I can't answer about service as none of them have ever needed any. ;)

One caution, before you buy a short barreled AR15, be advised that they have a short sight radius, also. I like them without scopes so the 20" rifle is the best for iron sight work.

longhorngunman
March 14, 2006, 07:23 PM
Shhh! Rock River, stay away from them. Yea, my Entry Tactical has been great, totally reliable, well built and excellent fit and finish, you still don't want anything to do with them:D . They are getting such a great reputation that their prices are starting to go up accordingly! They were sneaking under the radar just fine and now they are just as high as Bushmaster.
I'm starting to get very anxious about their new .308 series of rifles coming out in the summer. If they correct the flaws that Bushy had these will be some awesome rifles.:)

WheelMan
March 14, 2006, 08:16 PM
I have a bushmaster (20" HBAR) and a CMMG (14.5). If I get another it will be a CMMG. They seem good to do business with, have the features I like (mid-length, chrome, 1-7 twist) and are local (for me). I don't have any complaints about either (actualy the bushmasters trigger is somewhat better, but other than that it's a dead heat).

Lebben-B
March 14, 2006, 08:53 PM
then slap a POF-USA Gas-Piston upper on it

You mean one of these?

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a272/lebbenB/S3000084.jpg
16" 1/8, fluted, chrome-lined barrel
Vortec flash supressor
Predator free-float rail system
Bushmaster lower w/MIAD grip

A tad nose heavy, but shoots like a dream.

Mike

LoadAmmo
March 14, 2006, 10:14 PM
Very nice Lebben!

Why the 1/8 twist? I've wondered this with POF barrels but haven't asked until now. Will they stabilize all rounds as 1/9?

Also, how far out can you accurately shoot with the flip up rear sight?

Thanks.

rino451
March 14, 2006, 10:56 PM
Just bought my AR about two months ago. I was looking for 5.56 and not .223 and chrome lined barrel and chamber. I refered to http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/ar15sforserious.htm for much of the info.

That alone narrowed things down to just a few, I think Colt, RRA, Bush, and maybe another one. RRA wasn't shipping their M4-gery with the chrome lined barrels at the time so that ruled them out.

Randall

skunyun
March 15, 2006, 12:17 AM
Bushmaster // if a realy good deal maybe Colt //

These rilfes are built to shoot and shoot alot... rugged trouble free, GREAT customer service...

Srigs
March 15, 2006, 12:55 AM
Check out DPMS. Good quality and good price!

Lebben-B
March 15, 2006, 06:15 AM
Why the 1/8 twist? I've wondered this with POF barrels but haven't asked until now. Will they stabilize all rounds as 1/9?


I don't know why POF goes with a 1/8 on their 16" barrels. 1/8 will reliably stabilize the longer, heavier match-type rounds up 77gr all the way down to 55gr FMJ. I went with the 16" because it's a good compromise length - short enough to be easily portable, but with enough length to ensure the round has enough velocity to reliably fragment out to ~150-200m.

The BUIS is a Troy Industry flip up. It's a rugged, well-made bit of kit. The sight has 2 aperatures, just like the M16A2. Large aperature for short range, small for longer distances. I've shot the irons effectively out to 400m.

Mike

355sigfan
March 15, 2006, 06:29 AM
Colt makes the best guns period. Thats not an opinion but rather its fact. Colt and FN are the only guns good enough to be issued by the military. They have the least problems.
Pat

Rob96
March 15, 2006, 08:14 AM
Colt makes the best guns period. Thats not an opinion but rather its fact. Colt and FN are the only guns good enough to be issued by the military. They have the least problems.
Pat


Actually if you look at what is being delivered to SF, that isn't the case anymore. The Colt M4's have been dropped and they are now using the HK 416, rifles from Leitner and Wise and so forth. I think Colt has felt threatened by this, thus them releasing a gas piston rifle now. Little by little, Colt isn't the only kid on the block anymore.

355sigfan
March 15, 2006, 08:41 AM
Good point the gas piston design may change things. But if your comparing conventional direct gas operated AR's then Colt is the way to go. Also Colt is in the Gas piston market now as well.
Pat

Lone_Gunman
March 15, 2006, 08:45 AM
If there is a difference between Colt and Bushmaster, I am yet to find it. Admittedly I don't use and abuse any of my guns like the military does. For me though, there has been no difference in the two brands.

Except, of course, that Colt does not want civilians to buy guns with flash hiders, bayonet lugs, and collapsible stocks.

Rob96
March 15, 2006, 08:50 AM
But if your comparing conventional direct gas operated AR's then Colt is the way to go.

I disagree with this, as there are companies that are coming out with rifles that follow the same exact mil-spec specs and process that Colt does. They are by all means equal to say the least. And they are at a more consumer friendly price. Do these companies have the capability to produce the number of rifles that Colt can, maybe not. But there are more choices available now.

P-32
March 15, 2006, 09:06 AM
Colt makes the best guns period. Thats not an opinion but rather its fact. Colt and FN are the only guns good enough to be issued by the military. They have the least problems.
Pat

As a retired service member with over 20 years of Naval service, I've never found our Govbernet to buy the best. They buy the cheapest, except when it comes to ashtrays and hammers.

I believe RRA has it all over Colt. The only thing the RRA's don't have is the Pony. I've shot M-16's which were not made by Colt or FN while in the Military, by the way.

355sigfan
March 15, 2006, 09:21 AM
The government has set standards (mil spec) that it holds the companies too. Colt is the best I can testify to that from personal experience. The difference between Colt and others is that Colt has a much better system for testing and quality control.

As for Colt not selling to civilians right now that is not political but rather bcause all of their resources are devoted to making arms for the military at the moment.
Pat

355sigfan
March 15, 2006, 09:24 AM
QUOTE
believe RRA has it all over Colt. The only thing the RRA's don't have is the Pony. I've shot M-16's which were not made by Colt or FN while in the Military, by the way
END QUOTE

And M4 feed ramps, magna fluxed barrels and bolts. By the way you did not shoot a M16 made by anyone other than Colt or FN. Sorry no one else had the contract. So you have to be mistaken. Thats also a verifable fact. There are some M4's made by LMT and the HK 416 being tested right now. But FN and Colt have the contracts.
pat

Rob96
March 15, 2006, 09:28 AM
The government has set standards (mil spec) that it holds the companies too. Colt is the best I can testify to that from personal experience. The difference between Colt and others is that Colt has a much better system for testing and quality control.


The others that are following true mil-spec are doing jast as Colt.

Rob96
March 15, 2006, 09:29 AM
As for Colt not selling to civilians right now that is not political but rather bcause all of their resources are devoted to making arms for the military at the moment.
Pat


Negative. The civilian production side was split from the military side. The military side was sold off to General Dynamics. So they are two seperate companies now.

Rob96
March 15, 2006, 09:32 AM
And M4 feed ramps, magna fluxed barrels and bolts. By the way you did not shoot a M16 made by anyone other than Colt or FN. Sorry no one else had the contract. So you have to be mistaken. Thats also a verifable fact. There are some M4's made by LMT and the HK 416 being tested right now. But FN and Colt have the contracts.
pat


No I do believe that there are Vietnam era M16s that are still in inventory made by other companies. Could be wrong.

The LMT's, HK416, Leitner & Wise are not test guns, but special orders. Colt and FN have the contract for big Army.

355sigfan
March 15, 2006, 09:39 AM
Sorry your right there were some Armalite guns. Not the Armalite of today which is really Eagle arms since they bought Armalites name only. There were some original AR15's used by the Airforce made by Eugene Stoner's Armalite.
Pat

Correia
March 15, 2006, 10:47 AM
Sorry Pat, FN is better than Colt in pretty much every way. Colt may have been the greatest in the past, but they have issues now. There is a reason that FN has picked up almost every single available contract.

I deal mostly with the civillian side of things, but my partner comes from a military (SF) background, and is a 45 Bravo for an SF battalion. He has deployed on combat missions, and has had to maintain a lot of guns. Hopefully he will chime in here, but he can tell you storys about screwed up, from the factory, Colt guns, and their horrible lack of ability to correct the error.

So they are not the best. "period". :p

ID_shooting
March 15, 2006, 10:47 AM
"By the way you did not shoot a M16 made by anyone other than Colt or FN. Sorry no one else had the contract. So you have to be mistaken. Thats also a verifable fact."

You will have to verify that for me.

I had an arms room full of DPMS A2's when I was an armorer on Ft Riley.

Lone_Gunman
March 15, 2006, 10:51 AM
As for Colt not selling to civilians right now that is not political but rather bcause all of their resources are devoted to making arms for the military at the moment.

Not true. Colt is selling to distributors, for the civilian market, some things anyway, including some AR's. But they are not selling AR's with bayo lugs, collapsible stocks, and flash hiders; those are all marked Law Enforcement Only.

Bartholomew Roberts
March 15, 2006, 11:36 AM
Colt makes the best guns period. Thats not an opinion but rather its fact.

No, it is an opinion Pat. If you have some data to support your argument, I am sure we would all love to see it. If you just want to post flame-bait comments with no support, I'd encourage you to find somewhere else to do it.

By the way you did not shoot a M16 made by anyone other than Colt or FN. Sorry no one else had the contract. So you have to be mistaken. Thats also a verifable fact.

In addition to Armalite, GM had a contract to build M16s under their old Hydramatic spin off. Despite the fact that they did a horrible job on that contract, you can still find Hydramatic stamped lowers in service today. Which just goes to show that even the "low end" manufacturers produce more good reliable rifles than they do lemons.

Lebben-B
March 15, 2006, 03:31 PM
GM had a contract to build M16s under their old Hydramatic spin off.

I was just getting ready to post that the M16A1 I had in basic was a Turbo-Hydramatic.

Colt and FN are the only guns good enough to be issued by the military.
Following your logic, does that mean the Beretta 92 is the best handgun? It's issued by the military. Is the M60 the best machine gun? It was issued by the military, too. And my personal favorite: The M249. Would you call the M249 the best Squad level support weapon?

Mike

rino451
March 15, 2006, 04:04 PM
Things are milspec for a reason - it should provide for some minimum standard of individual parts perfomance. For the civilian, the things that would set one AR apart from another is probably going to be 1. quality of initialy assembly and 2. customer service. Honestly, how often does a non-wear part just give up in civilian use? Bush, has the canted front sght bast issue for sure. Bush also takes care of the problem when asked. I'm sure that Colt and others have their share of issues. Question is, how do they handle them? From what I've read, Colt isn't the best to deal with.

Randall

SilentStalker
March 15, 2006, 06:52 PM
Wow, I have more responses than I thought I would get. I can tell you guys this, I am looking to spend around $800-$1200+ for a mid-length AR-15. I am still kind of confused about this 1/7,1/8,1/9 swivel stuff etc. so if anyone can explain this in greater detail, it would be most appreciated. I can tell you that I would like something chrome lined for longevity and if possible find something that can handle the new 6.8 round that everyone is raving about over the 5.56mm. I don't know if anyone is selling anything complete for this type of ammo yet but I figured I would throw that out there. Now knowing that what do you guys recommend? Custom?? I don't think I have enough experience around these kinds of weapons to venture out and build something yet so that is out of the question unless there is someone that can do this for me. I am still kind of new to this stuff so...! By the way this will be my first rifle, besides the .308 that my dad gave me many years ago.

Justin

Correia
March 15, 2006, 07:06 PM
I'm biased as far as what to get in a mid length. See my sig line. :p

Bartholomew Roberts
March 15, 2006, 07:15 PM
I am looking to spend around $800-$1200+ for a mid-length AR-15.

As you know already, you've got a lot of options in that price range. I'd spend some time reading and learning a bit more before I plunk down my cash. I really like the 16" midlengths though, so naturally I think you made the right choice there.

I am still kind of confused about this 1/7,1/8,1/9 swivel stuff etc. so if anyone can explain this in greater detail, it would be most appreciated.

1/7-1/9 is just the rate of twist. 1/9 will handle anything up to about 70gr. After that it may or may not handle heavier rounds. 1/8 and 1/7 are designed to stabilize the longer, heavier match bullets that are becoming popular both for their terminal ballistics and improved long range performance. I don't know if that helps much; but if you can narrow down where you are confused we can probably provide more help.

I can tell you that I would like something chrome lined for longevity and if possible find something that can handle the new 6.8 round that everyone is raving about over the 5.56mm. I don't know if anyone is selling anything complete for this type of ammo yet but I figured I would throw that out there.

6.8 is going to be expensive to shoot if you don't reload (and even then it won't be cheap). You will also need the PRI mags for reliable feeding. Several manufacturers offer 6.8 rifles complete; but by and large they are not cheap and will be at the upper end of your range even before you consider mags and ammo.

226
March 15, 2006, 07:19 PM
AR15 deficiencies (http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=56;t=000497#000000), 6-10-03

Which AR (http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=744121#post744121), 6-21-04


.

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