[snuffer]

Ok, I tried Triple 7 in my Uberti 5 1/2" Rem 58 over the weekend. Some early observations...

Tried ff first, definetly got the "double crack" that others had spoke of, reminded me of the "poof-boom" of some flintlocks. But first six shot were in 2 1/4" at 23 yards, from a rest.

Tried fff, on most shots the "double crack" was absent. With the same distance and rest, the group size roughly doubled.

I think the "double crack" may have something to do with compression, or lack of.

More later.

[dwave]

In my Pietta 51 navy, I got very poor accuracy with FFFg 777. I did not get the poof-boom with it.

[BP Hunter]

my old army loves triple 777. i could get a 2" group at 15 yards. my 1851 navy by pietta doesn't seem to agree with 777 - the best 6" at 15 yards.

[dwave]

You have problems with it in your 51 pietta too? Must be that model, not just mine maybe? I know when I use 777 at 25 yards I have hits all over the target, but when I use Goex, APP, or Pyrodex I get nice groups.

[BP Hunter]

dwave,
what's your best load with APP on your pietta 1851 navy .36cal? i use a .380 lead ball. do you too?

[dwave]

I use .375 because I can get 100 for $5.50 here, and the shop doesn't carry .380. My load for APP is 22 gr. with grease on top using CCI #10's. With 777 seems like the best load was 15 gr. (accuracy was still poor though!) What loads do you use?

[Across The Pond]

I have also spent time trying to get 777 to work with a 51 navy.. mine is a Uberti. The 'double crack' and the poor grouping are both symptoms that I have observed too. My (un-scientific) testing suggests that it's all down to how hard you compress the charge. 777 seems to be ultra-sensitive to this - I found that more compression than just seating the ball on top of the powder column and less than crushing it down till the rammer stops was about right. It's near impossible to explain better than that!

I'm pulling my hair out on this one.. have gone back to Pyrodex in desparation but really like the cleanup with 777, so am really keen to figure this one out. I have been considering (over the occasional glass of wine:) ) making a loading tool that incorporates some mechanism to make the compression repeatable.

Be fascinated to hear other folks' experiences!

Dave

[dwave]

I have been using American Pioneer Powder, it cleans up with water like 777, however it does not have the power of 777. I believe that some estimates are 30 to 40 percent. When I shoot, I am not looking for power since I target shoot, so I use it. I get accuracy and consistancy. It doesn't seem to be so bad about being perfect like 777.

If you can get it and you don't mind the power loss, you might try it. I have had good luck with it so far. Of course you could stick to the pyrodex, it does have good accuracy with it too, and cheaper to boot.

[Lo.Com.Denom]

I have been considering (over the occasional glass of wine ) making a loading tool that incorporates some mechanism to make the compression repeatable.

That, I believe, is what they call "A Bloody Good Idea".:)

Maybe you could use the clutch from an old fishing reel, or something? That's the first thing that popped into my head upon reading your post.

[Kramer Krazy]

I've used ff Triple 7 with my old Euroarms Colt Sheriff .44, CVA Plainsman rifle, and CVA Kentucky rifle with none of thise "double-crack". I shot nice groups with about 25 gr in the .44 and it got really bad at 27 gr. I've only shot it about 50 times with it, though. Never had any double-crack with my two rifles, either. I've barely shot the rifles, though, so I can't really comment on it with them. I picked up another pound of Triple 7 and some Pyrodex during Walmart's last clearance sale, so I'm hoping to do some BP shooting this spring.....and may even do some comparisons with the chronograph I just picked up.

[mec]

H777 is definately not as forgiving as Pyrodex or black but you can find some excellent loads with it in percussion single shots and the .44 revolvers in particular. The 50 caliber old army made up by dave clements for Billy Fugate is so tight that clean burning h777 is about all it will use. he's gotten some excellent groups and ballistic consistency with it. I don't think it could be summed up any better than this:
Across the Pond: "it's all down to how hard you compress the charge. 777 seems to be ultra-sensitive to this - I found that more compression than just seating the ball on top of the powder column and less than crushing it down till the rammer stops was about right. It's near impossible to explain better than that!"-Across the Pond.

[Across The Pond]

OK, it looks like I'm going to have to spend some 'quality time' in the garage (away from the kids..;) ) designing and prototyping a loading tool that delivers consistent pressure.

The slipper clutch in a fishing reel could work, it's an interesting thought... the tricky part with this whole thing is to be able to provide delicate control over pressure, whilst at the same time delivering enough 'heft' to press the .380 ball into the chamber first.

Having read the 'what do we all do for a living?' thread on another area on the board we seem to have some real genuine rocket scientists here! Anyone got any good ideas?

Meantime, I am off to the gunshop to buy a pound of Pyro!

Regards, Dave

[Manyirons]

ACROSS THE POND

Local Barrelmaker/Blackpowder Smith has loading tool that addresses this very same issue, works with springs&screws what ya do is 'dial in' amount of pressure ya want exerted upon tha ball/bullet, works with any cylinder/caliber and seating distance.

'Straight inline seating at any pressure ya desire'

[Across The Pond]

Hi ManyIrons, any chance of a 'spy shot'?? ;)

How's he getting over the requirement to squeeze hard initially to overcome the resistance of pushing an oversize ball into the chamber, but then easing off to a repeatable (and I think lower) pressure for proper compression and seating?

Incidentally, your gunsmith sounds like a really incredible guy - I've read about lots of his work in your posts.. you're lucky to have someone who's so skilled nearby. Bet his time's not cheap!! (BTW, remanufacturing Italian repro gun internals in stainless captured my imagination. I used to own a ROA and it was just beautifully made. A replica '51 but with internals made the same quality? - yes please!!)

Tell me more about the loader....

Regards, Dave

[Manyirons]

Hi Dave!

Really not all that complex, more difficult to explain than do! You're hitting each chanber twice, once on a 'locked' setting to get past chamber-mouth, second is the seating-stroke and unlocked for the spring to give way once you've achieved all the seating pressure you want.

You mentioned .50 caliber conversions, latest one is going to be based upon the 1873 'colt peacemaker' style cap&ball, other than fact that it LOOKS good and is well fitted, not much to reccommend with that LOW powder capacity. Now a FIFTY, with a bit longer cylinder should have enough capacity of H777 to toss a ball at some respectable velocity 'Looks good, Works good, BOOMS good' i think what we'll end up with.

I'll see if i can't have the wife snap some photos of the loading tool, her schedules been wonkie have to fins a 'good mood' time cause her rest is being curtailed covering for people calling in ill. All else fails, I'LL try iffin ya don't mind muddy images!