Has anyone seen the new rifle from Vulcan?


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Ascot500
March 15, 2006, 10:56 AM
Check out the Vulcan arms web site.
They have their own version of the Armalite 180

Looks good and reasonably priced.

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Correia
March 15, 2006, 12:18 PM
Vulcan=Hesse=Crap

Hesse is one of the worst firearms manufacturers there has ever been, and I wouldn't trust them to build a super soaker correctly.

atblis
March 15, 2006, 12:35 PM
Definitely some of the sketchiest crap I've ever seen.

birddog
March 15, 2006, 12:37 PM
Darn. I thought you meant the planet Vulcan and was somewhat intruiged.

rbernie
March 15, 2006, 12:54 PM
I wouldn't shoot it on a bet.

AJ Dual
March 15, 2006, 01:10 PM
I'm not quite as down on Hesse/Vulcan stuff as some others.

I wouldn't turn one of their products down if it was free. But that's about it.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
March 15, 2006, 01:24 PM
I suspect they'd have a hard time making a decent cap gun for Roy Rogers wannabee's.

Thefabulousfink
March 15, 2006, 01:29 PM
Vulcan Arms aside, (any company with the claim "Best-built fireams in the world" seems a little shady) What about the AR-180 as a rifle, I know Armalite has an updated version for around $1000. How do these compare to AR-15s? I know its an older design, but I have heard people claim that they are worth their weight in gold.

Bartholomew Roberts
March 15, 2006, 01:37 PM
It is rarely a good sign when you have to change the name of your company (Vulcan) to escape all the bad publicity associated with the previous company (Hesse).

atblis
March 15, 2006, 02:10 PM
you might want to check out a Daewoo. DR200s can be had for about $600.

Henry Bowman
March 15, 2006, 02:18 PM
(any company with the claim "Best-built fireams in the world" seems a little shady) Like the one that claims "Perfection"? :neener:

ABTOMAT
March 15, 2006, 02:27 PM
Weren't some Hesse FAL receivers known for self destructing?

I've never messed with an AR-18 but I do have a whole bunch of articles from the '60s talking about them. Designed by non-Stoner folks at Armalite to be a weapon suited for inexpensive mass production in other countries. The guts supposedly are designed to digest dirt and eject it. I guess they were trying to get into the AK's market share back then but it didn't work.

Stiletto Null
March 15, 2006, 06:20 PM
AR-180s and related rifles (G36, for example) are supposed to be Just Dandy.

But don't buy Vulcan.

Number 6
March 15, 2006, 07:32 PM
There are a lot of people buying Vulcan AR lower receivers over at calguns.net. They feel safe buying the lowers since the lower in the AR system does not do much. As long as it is in spec the lower should work. There are varying degrees of happiness with these receivers however, and more than a few people that have receivers that are out of spec. Very few of them have ever considered buying a complete firearm from Vulcan. One of the sad things about Vulcan is that they have a tremendously diverse product line that would be great if they only produced a quality product. What other company produces clones of an AR, AK, MAC-10, Galil, MP5, AR-180, and a .50 rifle? In addition to producing FAL and AR-10 receivers. If only these products were well made it would be a great company, but alas they are usually just malformed paperweights.

Ascot500
March 16, 2006, 07:53 AM
Can anyone supply any factual information to go along with all the conjecture?

I don't own a Vulcan or Hesse, and have no connection to either, but I guess being an engineer - I take the Jack Webb approach.

atblis
March 16, 2006, 09:14 AM
Their polymer uppered AR was pathetic. It broke at the rear pin (multiple different ones).

If it says Hesse or Vulcan on it, run away, don't shoot it, don't let friends or loved ones shoot it, don't stand near someone shooting it, etc.

By all accounts the AR180 is supposed to be a very decent weapon.

Ascot500
March 16, 2006, 09:20 AM
OK, so you used one of their lowers to build a rifle and it broke.

Did you get a refund?
Does your dealer still stock them?
What did you wind up using instead?
I am out in the boonies, so I don't get a lot of first hand reports about off brands at the local shop.

walking arsenal
March 16, 2006, 10:34 AM
I just finished building an AR-15 on a Vulcan receiver.

Everything went prett smoothly, i had to dremel the rear take down pin hole just slightly.

Either the lower or the upper is a tiny bit out of spec. Not sure which.

I'm guessing it might be a combo of both since it's a no name upper left over from the shop.

Correia
March 16, 2006, 11:31 AM
Ascott, not conjecture.

For you background, I am a dealer. www.fbmginc.com We specialize in evil black rifles, and sell more AR and AK type rifles than anything else. So we've seen pretty much every kind of black rifle.

I won't touch Hesse with a ten foot pole. I don't want them in my store, because from what I've seen I've got about a 50% chance that it is going to come back with a very unhappy customer. The other half probably hasn't shot theirs enough yet.

If something can be out of spec, it will be. If a hole can be drilled wrong, it will be. Misshapen paperweights.

I'm sure there are some good Hesses out there, I just haven't seen one in person.

rallyhound
March 16, 2006, 03:43 PM
I have two hesse built rifles. One is an ar with about 6000 round trouble free.
The other an ak with about 2k on it.
both have been trouble free.
I did have a DPMS lower crack on the third shot from new. They took care of it of course.

swingset
March 17, 2006, 12:57 AM
I don't own, or plan to own a Hesse/Vulcan. Don't have any personal stake in this whatosever, but I will say that I know of 5 rifles made by them that I have first hand experience with. I shoot with a group of guys, and 3 of them have Hesse guns. None of them have had any problems whatsoever. The only one that was any sort of problem was an AR build that was short stroking, but it turned out to be a diassembly/reassembly problem of the user, not Hesse's fault.

I'm sure they've earned their bad reputation, but it's also obvious to me that they have made some good guns too. Probably like Century.....good and bad. I wouldn't roll the dice, but let's not listen to the experts that say they're all dangerous/broke/out of spec. That's clearly not the case.

P0832177
March 17, 2006, 07:49 AM
Hesse = Vulcan = DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY!

There are other vendors that do not seem to have change their names, have poor customer service, and lack the arrogance of Hesse!

Ascot500
March 17, 2006, 10:03 AM
Presently there is one other manufacturer of an AR-180 and their uses a proprietary scope adaptor - not a universal Weaver mount.

Just an observation.

silicon wolverine
April 21, 2006, 06:56 AM
Guess what? I have a vulcan and im perefectly happy with it. I baought a vulcan M-11-9 pistol (mac clone) at a gunshow for 200$. All it needed was tuning up a few rough edges. doesnt jam, no FTFs or FTEs. and while yes it IS a phone booth gun, you get alot of range cred when you rip out a 32 round mag as fast as you cna pull the trigger.

SW

Dave Markowitz
April 21, 2006, 08:56 AM
I had a Saiga that Hesse converted into an AK-103 lookalike. After about 180 rounds, the FCG parts they installed started to peen and the gun wouldn't function (hammer wouldn't fall). The FCG parts they used were too soft.

I replaced the FCG with a Tapco G2 set and the gun has digested at least 500 rounds without a bobble.

I wouldn't buy anything that says Hesse or Vulcan on the side ever again.

rageofangels
April 21, 2006, 01:28 PM
Too bad because both names are so awesome. Especially Hesse.

The Grand Inquisitor
April 21, 2006, 02:01 PM
I just looked at their website, and they make a really nice Galil clone, and I'd probably start saving up to buy it right now if it were made by a company without such a reputation for crapitude.

I especially wouldn't get near a Vulcan rifle spitting out .50 BMG...that's destined to fail and asking for Scattered Remnants.

Foxtrot427
April 21, 2006, 02:18 PM
I saw that galil too. It was great. exactly what Im looking for but Im not about to spend 2 grand on one. ESPECIALLY a hesse. If it was made by vector, or bobcat Id still not want to pay 2 grand. It shouldnt even be 1 thousand.

modifiedbrowning
April 21, 2006, 03:53 PM
No experience with Vulcan or Hesse but, I am plenty happy with my Ar-180B.
FabulousFink, Afaik Armalite never released their upgraded Ar-180.

Ascot500, check out www.stormwerkz.com for some Ar-180 accessories, including a scope mount that uses a picatinny rail.

DougW
April 21, 2006, 06:05 PM
Not to fuel the fire over Hesse/Vulcan, but the attached pics are of a Hesse AR reciever that belongs to a friend of mine. He finished the build, and had to travel, so he allowed me to do the test shooting. This reciever failed after the second round I fired. Not the second magazine or case, the second ROUND. The build was done with all new lower parts and an existing upper. There were no goofey components or junk involved. The owner has about 5 other AR's, and experienced in building, since he has built them all.

Hesse required the whole rifle be returned to them before they would comment on making a warranty adjustment. The owner refuesd to send the whole rifle, since only the reciever was bought from Hesse (through Fulton Armory, I think). This was about 3 or 4 years ago, but the reciever resides in Dallas, Texas, and would be available for anyone that wants to examine it. Bottom line, no warranty at all!

Here is what happened at the range:

Specifically, when I shot the rifle at Gibson's Outpost (SE Dallas), I loaded only 3 rounds in the magazine. I did this to make sure that if something went crazy with the FC group, the rifle would not go full auto on a full mag. First round was fine, but felt funny, like the rifle was tight. The second round fired fine and the action cycled, and then I found the rear sight against my glasses, and something falling into my lap. I first thought the stock came off, but realised after seeing the back side of the lower still attached to the stock. I looked up at the back of the upper with the bolt carrier in front of my nose, a locked bolt on a live round, and my finger off the trigger (fortunately).

I hit the safety, and pulled the bolt charging handle, which ejected the shell, and pulled the bolt carrier and handle all the way out. I re-cased the "rifle" and took it back to it's owner when he got back in town.

Anyway, you descide. Maybe Vulcan has done better, but the origional Hesse company doesn't hold as one of my preferred manufacturers. :fire:

Kevlarman
April 21, 2006, 06:17 PM
Yow!

I didn't know they made AR lowers with MIM now! :evil:

rallyhound
April 21, 2006, 08:15 PM
Dougw--
that is the exact failure that my DPMS receiver had on the fourth round fired.

DougW
April 21, 2006, 08:26 PM
'hound, do you have any pics of the DPMS failure?:what:

I have 2 builds on DPMS lowers!:scrutiny:

rageofangels
April 21, 2006, 09:42 PM
What AR companies use MIM parts? Is this why DPMS is so much cheaper? Is MIM really that bad?

Lobotomy Boy
April 21, 2006, 10:05 PM
DPMS used to use cast lowers, but now all their lowers are forged. I've got several thousand rounds through mine with no problems whatsoever.

It's too bad Vulcan has such a bad rep. They are a local company and I'd hoped they would build a good product.

AmbulanceDriver
February 6, 2008, 07:00 PM
Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but I had to share my experience today at a local gun store. Until this point, I was really impressed with this particular gun store.

So I'm wandering about the store, and I see this.... thing... that looks rather interesting. Looks kinda like an HK G3.... But not..... Still can't really figure it out.... I pick it up and it weighs a ton and a half. Granted, that's partly because of the tacticool bipod and quick release scope on there. And then I look at the side of it. Hesse.... I have no idea what this company is, but it's obviously a G3 clone. So I ask the guy in the shop what he can tell me about it...

"Oh, it's basically an HK G3, made with all HK parts, but assembled by Hesse". Ok, I'm interested. It's priced at $799... 1/2 to 1/3 of the price of an HK according to gun shop guru there... Little warning light comes on, but I'm interested still interested, but more cautious. OK. Now I'm really interested... I let him know I'm gonna run home and do some research, and he's praising how good this gun and manufacturer are. And I ask him again, clarifying that this is an HK part rifle with a Hesse receiver. "Yup" says he... "Same quality as HK, 1/3 the price..." By now my bull**** detector is starting to peg, and that little warning light has gone from a little LED to a half-million candlepower spotlight. So I figure I'll look up "Hesse guns" on ye olde Google. First hit is for this thread. And now I'm *really* glad that I walked out of there with my wallet still in my pocket. And I may call the owner of the gunshop up and let him know that if his employees are taking the responsibility for recommending a potential grenade that might blow up in one of their customer's faces, they may want to up their liability insurance a bit....

nwilliams
February 6, 2008, 07:14 PM
Vulcan!!! RUN AWAY!!!!

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/HolyGrail072.jpg

briansmithwins
February 6, 2008, 07:16 PM
"I wouldn't shoot it on a bet."

I wouldn't shoot AT it on a bet. BSW

gunnie
February 6, 2008, 07:22 PM
"Presently there is one other manufacturer of an AR-180 and their uses a proprietary scope adaptor - not a universal Weaver mount."

Ascot500, that is the OEM mount of original AR180. but [current] armalite did make a handgaurd with a rail on it. dunno if they still do.

gunnie

NCLivingBrit
February 7, 2008, 02:26 PM
I'm just getting ready to finish off (as finished as they ever get anyway) my first AR. I'm thankful someone clued me in on Vulcan/Hesse/Blackknight as I came -this- close to buying one of their rifle kits.

rageofangels
February 7, 2008, 02:30 PM
Black Knight another part of the Hesse/Vulcan group?

NCLivingBrit
February 7, 2008, 02:37 PM
I was told that most of what they sell was Vulcan/Hesse stuff.

I couldn't swear to it on a stack of Bibles, but as their carbine kit was almost $100 cheaper than most of the others I looked at it seemed pretty likely.

Coronach
February 7, 2008, 02:47 PM
Black Knight another part of the Hesse/Vulcan group?I have no idea whether or not Black Knight is associated with Hesse. However, this is what Hesse does:

They sell crap under one name and, when the returns and the customer rantings and the lawsuits and the calls to the BBB get to be too much, they change their name to something else. I don't think they have a "group", which makes it sound like they're some sort of elite weapons-making conglomerate like FN. They're just one inept company that is actively on the run from its reputation.

Mike

strangelittleman
February 7, 2008, 02:47 PM
Oh, I don't know, the Vulcan guns are just fine for a suicide bomber, all he'd have to do is run at people firing it until it explodes...that way he doesn't have to worry w/ those pesky bomb belts..sometime they don't detonate but the Vulcans are assured to detonate.......HAHAHAHA!

rageofangels
February 7, 2008, 02:54 PM
This is the best resurrected thread EVER! I've never laughed so much.

Maybe one day I'll catch a glimpse of the elusive rifles... and laugh at it. But from a distance, because I don't want to get shrapneled (a word?).

JWarren
February 7, 2008, 03:53 PM
I'm not quite as down on Hesse/Vulcan stuff as some others.

I wouldn't turn one of their products down if it was free. But that's about it.

I'm not willing to accept the personal liability. I'd probably get named in the lawsuit when it blows up and wounds 6 bystanders.


-- John

Bartholomew Roberts
February 7, 2008, 07:20 PM
Somebody posted this picture of Vulcan/Hesse/Blackthorne handiwork in another thread. I think it captures the quality nicely.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Dieter122/349ap.jpg

NCLivingBrit
February 7, 2008, 08:07 PM
Is that Special Forces or Special Ed Forces?

ceetee
February 7, 2008, 08:13 PM
Black Knight another part of the Hesse/Vulcan group?

As Mr Roberts has pointed out, it's "Blackthorne", not Black Knight. Although Black Knight would be funnier.

surfinUSA
February 7, 2008, 08:37 PM
I've had a Century FAL built on a Hesse FAL-H receiver (supposedly the worst FAL and maybe the worst firearm ever made although I doubt it compared to that French POS machine gun from WW I) since 2001. This gun has shot thousands of rounds of surplus ammo and commercial 308 (Radwaqy green, Portugese, South african, american eagle etc.) and has alway worked perfectly. Its Accurate, realiable and a real pleasure to own.

No, its not as pretty as a DSA or FN-FAL. But I'll tell you what, you buy the ammo and come to Miami and I'll definately put this gun up against any other FAL and I think anyone that listens to the errornet BS will be the ones surprised at its performance.

SageMonkey
February 7, 2008, 09:22 PM
Hesse / Vulcan crap is good for two things.
1. EBR "buy-backs"
2. Make into lamps
Carefully inspect it before doing #2, might still be unsafe.

I suppose I would take one if it were GIVEN to me, but I wouldn't fire one on a dare.

gunnie
February 8, 2008, 10:01 AM
surfinUSA ,

my experiences have been the same as yours with a heese carbine upper i owned. but one must relize this is only a single heese reciever and bbl, and the assembly/fitting was done by others, -Century Arms Intrnational.

who, incidently, also catch a lot of net-flack from the price weighted devaluations of those who may have, have not even shot one themselves. i've had hands-on time with three CAI built FAL's, and one did have probs with substandard parts, and oversized, ovalized pin bores in the lower. even at the lower price range, this WAS NOT a happy owner boasting about the good score he made on a wartoy.

for myself, can't really vote in this election with just a single case history data base. by this i mean:

1- i know for sure what maintenence this has had.
2- i know what quality of ammo made up its diet.
3- i know the magazines were in good shape.
4- i know the gas regulator was correctly adjusted.
5- i know how well other rifles have grouped for me.

could be i was just fortunate. i can't afford to go buy a dozen for a fair evaluation. i knew many people who were very happy with their ford pinto(s) and chevy corvair(s).

just too many variables to form an equation from.

<$0.02,
gunnie

coltcollector
February 17, 2008, 12:08 PM
I have a "Hesse" Galil .223 that looks good and seems to work well. All new IMI parts including barrel. Good finish, different flash hider and had a similar folding stock which I replaced with IMI. Had the same problems as early ORF receivers, didn't like Orlites and AR mag adapters. Little dremiling took care of that. Haven't done any target work yet, just plinking.:)

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