[Eleven Mike]

Is the Model 10 too big? I've never carried a sidearm before, so I don't know.I need a CHEAP carry piece and I am trying to decide between two offerings.

A local gun store has two old Model 10's, four-inch, police trade-ins, seem pretty tight. They have their orginal, skinny wood grips. The fellow behind the counter assures me they are too big for concealed carry, and recommended one of their new Rossi 351's, also in .38 Special. These cost slightly more and have chunky rubber grips (not the ribber type). They are five-shot, 2-inch.

Gun store guy also told me few IWB holsters would be available for an old Mod. 10.

This will be my only hand-gun, for now, so I am afraid of getting something too small to shoot comfortably. My wife will need to practice with it, too. She is a new shooter. I also suspect the smaller grip of the 10 will fit my wife's small hands better.

I will probably carry the weapon in an IWB holster, under a T-shirt or button-down, long-sleeved shirt. I am 5'10", 200 pounds, with a slight spare tire.

Thanks for any expertise y'all can shed on the subject.

[648E]

A Rossi costs more than a Smith & Wesson? :barf:

I have a S&W, it's the precursor to the model 10, a Military & Police .38. Lovely little gun! I would have absolutely no trouble concealing it, though I don't as it's a family heirloom which I'd rather not shoot someone with.

If I could only have one revolver a 4" K-Frame S&W would be the one for me.

I'm 5'10"/160lbs and carry a Glock 29 which is probably tougher to hide than the M10.

[Mooseman]

What is your budget exactly? You may want to check out a gun show. Probably open up your options considerably. I personally carry a Ruger sp101 IWB. It's a 357 but there's no reason you couldn't carry 38s in it. $325 NIB. This isn't a knock on the Rossi since I own one too, I just worry your being pushed into a decision.

[Eleven Mike]

My budget is such that it is strained considerably by 300 dollars, which is the price of the Rossi. In my area, the new SP101's seem to be running well upwards of 400 dollars. A used one might be do-able, but I just don't like the grips on them anyway.

I don't understand this gun show business. Don't you get a bit nervous making a major purchase from someone from out of town? But if they'll take a credit card, I'll consider it.

[JLaw]

Eleven Mike:

Not sure if I can help you make up your mind, but here's some insight. I've got a Taurus 65, much like the Model 10 only it's a .357 Mag (which also shoots .38's.) It is a square butt revolver, like the M-10. I stuck the Taurus into an el-cheapo nylon IWB holster at around the 3:30 position with a untucked button up shirt...and it dissapeared. Well, almost, the Taurus is wearing rather large target grips right now, but if I'd replace the large target grips with something a little smaller it would keep the corner of the grip from printing when I moved certain ways. So a full size 4" service revolver IS concealable. And you really can't go wrong with a good Smith wheelgun.

I've also got a Smith 642 (not quite the same as the Rossi, the Smith is a light-weight) and it goes without saying that a 5 shot revolver is very concealable. I have seen some praise in this forum about Rossi revolvers, so do some checking and see if YOU like it, it's you that will be shooting the gun afterall! The only things to consider about the 2" wheelgun is the loss of some muzzle velocity going down from a 4" to 2" barrell and the loss of 1 round of ammo (6 vs. 5). However, if you're ever called to use the firearm for defensive purposes, I'd be surprised if either of these factors would play a very large role. From what you hear most defensive scenarios are at a distance from arm's length to 7 yards, and are already solved by the time you need to reload.

Whatever you choose, it will be concealable. May have to get a couple new shirts at most. And whichever you choose, practice with it religiously. It's all about shot placement. Front sight, trigger, front sight, trigger!

Happy hunting and please let us know what you decide, and pictures of your new wheelgun would be appreciated!

JLaw

[ulflyer]

Eleven Mike: you mentioned your wife was going to be learning to shoot. I'd suggest the larger frame gun, perhaps the 10 if the price is cheap...say $150 or so...as that is a great gun to learn on. Its heavy enough to absorb the kick. If, later on, you feel you need a smaller gun you can always sell the 10 and get most of your money back. I surely wouldn't introduce a new gunner to anything with 357 bullets in it. Especially a small frame. If you want a small frame, I'd suggest something other than a Rossi. I bought one new a few months ago and it shot extremely low and left. Trigger pull on double action was rachety and not at all smooth. Single action was so light as to be dangerous. Yeah, I know, you can get lemons...but I ain't never had a lemon with a Smith & Wesson and I buy mostly used guns. Haven't owned many Colts, but the few I have had had wonderful actions. Ask the dealer if you can pull the triggers on both...he'll show you how to do it without harming the gun. Then see what feels best to you.

[Iggy]

The model 10 would be a better gun for both of you to learn with.

There are holsters available to make concealed carry quite practical.

[Eleven Mike]

Yeah, I've seen a lot of people here recommend a K-frame as a great everday-carry gun, so I know it can be done. I like the 10 just because I'm old-fashioned and I like the classics. Call me crazy, but I just don't like 2" revolvers.

Then again, I don't want to get a big gun and find it is too much for me to carry.

Can anyone recommend some super-wimpy .38 loads for practice? Factory-loaded, that is. My wife might need some.

Thanks all.

[Sistema1927]

My vote is for the S&W Model 10 as well. No knock on the Rossi, but if you and the little lady are just starting, the Model 10 is a much better choice for lots of reasons.

You can buy 148 grain wadcutter ammo for practice. It will be cheap, and the recoil will be negligible. You will also find it to be very accurate. In fact, this same round is no slouch in the self-defense arena either. While not my first choice, I would not feel bad if this round was all I had in a 4" revolver.

Either the 125 grain or 135 grain Gold Dot +P ammo is an excellent choice for self defense, but the 148 wadcutter will do the job if necessary.

Make sure to practice in double action mode (do not pre-cock the hammer). While this will initially require more work to be accurate, it is how you will want to utilize this revolver in a life or death situation. Trust me, if it ever comes to it, you will be glad that you practiced a smooth double action pull.

[Eleven Mike]

I don't know Lew Wallace, but I am glad so many of you lean the same way I was already leaning. :) I think I'll get the piece tonight.

Thanks.

[P. Plainsman]

A 4" gun requires a bit of forethought to carry successfully, but lots of people do it.

If this is a heavy-barrel Model 10, all you need to do is find an IWB holster suitable for "S&W K-frames" and you'll be fine. Probably also true for the pencil-barrel Model 10s; I don't have experience with those, so I'm advising you cautiously.

A S&W M10 is an excellent first gun for a new shooter. Low recoil, simple manual of arms, launches a credible round, and they can be highly accurate. 1" to 2" bench groups at 25 yards are by no means uncommon. My Model 10 is the gun I would reach for if someone asked me to make a tough handgun shot with money on the line. (Which hasn't happened yet -- I'm not that good. ;) )

I would not advise using target wadcutters for defense; a 600 fps bullet is not fast enough. Practice is a different matter. For defense, Federal 129 gr .38+P Hydra-Shok JHPs are pretty light recoiling. They are effective ammunition in a 4" barrel, where you can expect 950 fps. (I do not use them in snubs.)

If you are really worried about being able to carry the M10, you might look at a Taurus 85 or 850 five-shot snubby. They are available for $275 - $300 new. (One guy on GunsAmerica has a NIB blued Model 85 for $225! -- that is atypical.)

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=85B&category=Revolver

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=850B&category=Revolver

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976456714.htm

Not all Tauruses have solid reputations, but the Model 85 family is time-tested and gets pretty good word-of-mouth. The above are steel-frame models, which are heavier (21 oz) than Taurus's alloy-frame 85 "Ultralite" snubs (around 17 oz). The bit of extra weight from the steel frame will help your wife when she shoots it. Still much lighter than the Model 10. However, I guarantee your wife will be able to shoot nicer looking targets with the larger M10 and its 4" barrel.

[Eleven Mike]

I put a Mod. 10 on layaway, tonight, pending a permission slip from the High Sheriff. :rolleyes: .

Can anyone estimate its age?
It is a "pencil-barrel," pinned, but not recessed. Square butt if I remember right and 10 with no dash. Well-broken-in, but the bluing is good, except near the muzzle.

I applied the revolver checkout tips, and it seems good.

Any holster recommendations? (IWB)

[Eleven Mike]

From the Taurus website:

Taurus Revolvers have been widely recognized as the best in the industry for over 7 decades. In that time, Taurus has pioneered the art of the wheelgun with features like the yoke detent, full length ejector rod and the Taurus Security System

Yeah, wow, I should have gotten one of those. :)

I'm not knockin' on ya, Plainsman, I wouldn't look down my nose at a Taurus. I appreciate your advice.

[Ridge]

I've carried both the smith revolvers Model 10 and now a Model 12 both wear a 4inch barrel and both shoot 38. the reason I carry the 12 now is because it is a little lighter framed.

But the Model 10 is a very good weapon,and can be very Conceled very well.

[Kurac]

If it is in fact a model 10 no dash, then it would have been made before 1959 and after 1957.

If you can provide a parial serial number it will be easier to pin down the date.

[buttrap]

Dont see why a 4 inch 10 wont fill the bill. The one I am packing now is a 4 inch 629.

[Jkwas]

I'm picking up my Model 10 this morning. I ordered it from J&G in arizona. It's a 3 inch barrel police trade in. I'll let you guys know how it works out. Point is, I already have a taurus 605 357 snub with over 1000 rounds thru it. Excellent gun, and it can be had for around $250 online in blue, or a little more in stainless. My wife can't stand it, but I have something else for her.
I ordered the model 10 so that we can have a revolver that we can both shoot, sharpen our skills, and use as a backup house gun. I think for that a medium-full size revolver is the best bet.
As far as carrying it, I use a bianchi black widow for my 2 inch snub and it hides very well. They make one for the model 10 also. I see no reason with a long enough shirt you couldn't hide the extra 2inches of barrel. Also shoulder rigs are available, so I wouldn't worry about being able to conceal it, but a smaller gun is better suited for that. You can always pick up a snub later.

[MrBigStuff]

Quote: Can anyone recommend some super-wimpy .38 loads for practice? Factory-loaded, that is. My wife might need some.


Magtech lead round nose 158 grains are the weakest factory produced ammuntion I have ever used. Purchased some a while back thinking they where like the UMC Remingtons I usually get. The bullets chrono out of a two inch barrel at about 630 FPS. No recoil what so ever and they are not as loud a .22 short. If you need a wimpy round, then this is the one.

[Eleven Mike]

Wow, would that even make its way out of a four-inch barrel? ;)

[magsnubby]

Go with the model 10. The Model 10 is a great gun. With a little trigger work and some good after market grips you'll have a fantastic gun.

Mr. Gun Store Guy needs to do a little research. There's about a billion different types of concealed carry holsters for the K frame S&W. And they are not to big for ccw. With the right holster and clothing you can make a K frame almost dissappear.

[magsnubby]

.

[Eleven Mike]

With the right holster and clothing you can make a K frame almost dissappear.

Like the following?

I will probably carry the weapon in an IWB holster, under a T-shirt or button-down, long-sleeved shirt. I am 5'10", 200 pounds, with a slight spare tire.

[hkmp5g17]

Regarding the Rossi- I have a r35102 (2" blued 5 shot +p rated) that I purchased new for $119 + tax. It's 100% reliable has a great trigger - no grit/creep/etc. My friends prefer the rigger over all my other handguns.

I love the thing- except for the grips.

Does anyone know of anytone making more concealable grips?

Heres a pic. Mine is a newer version with the keylock and new cylinder release- but if the grips will fit this- they will fit mine.

[roo_ster]

Are you handy with tools & mechanical thingys? I saw one of the gun distributors (maybe J&G) selling 2" bbls & associated bits for the model 10.

[Eleven Mike]

Are you handy with tools & mechanical thingys? I saw one of the gun distributors (maybe J&G) selling 2" bbls & associated bits for the model 10.

Uh, yes and no, and thanks for the tip. I use "tools and mechanical thingys" for a living these days, but I can't afford to butcher a gun.

1. A $269 gun is way too expensive for me to tinker with as it's all I can barely afford.

2. I could never forgive me if I botched up a good old revolver or any other neat old gun. I love em too much.

3. I prefer the four-inch barrel anyhow.

Impressive resume, by the way. (No, I'm not hiring.)

[Eleven Mike]

I'm all excited, because the permit hoop has been jumped through,* and I can pick up my Mod. 10 from layaway tomorrow. Been handgunless for a few months. The best news is, the wife wants to go camping and shooting for our anniversary. I got a good one!


*Have to apply for a permit for every handgun purchase, takes about a week.

[Iggy]

Congrats.. You will enjoy the Pencil barrel Mdl 10. It was my first centerfire revolver.. and my first LE handgun.. At the time I thought I need a bigger gun and traded it.. 40 years later I finally got another and it felt like an old friend coming home. They are just plain a neat gun and very enjoyable to shoot.

Everyone needs a Mdl 10.. You just got your's first.. Have fun.

[Jim PHL]

Eleven Mike,

A 4" Model 10 with the pencil barrel is a great all-arounder! The skinny barrel will make it a little easier than the "bull" version when carrying concealed, but with 'target-load' .38's, the weight difference won't matter much as far as recoil. As far as I'm concerned, the .38 special is severely under-rated these days. There are few, if any, "full-size" calibers capable of comparable accuracy. As previously stated, there are many loads for target fun with little-to-barely any recoil. Accuracy and lack of recoil make it FUN to shoot. As far as defensive purposes, are there 'better' rounds? Yes. But that doesn't mean a .38 is a bad choice. With a modern +P hollowpoint out of a 4" barrel it will serve you very well.

Congratulations and good luck.
Be Safe.

[Eleven Mike]

If it is in fact a model 10 no dash, then it would have been made before 1959 and after 1957. If you can provide a parial serial number it will be easier to pin down the date.

It is certainly a no-dash.

I picked up the weapon today, and the serial number is C5300**. This is the number on the bottom of the grip frame. Inside the crane there is another number, 461**, and 2W. These might be police markings, I guess. Also, the rear sights are a groove in the top of the frame, and the firing pin is on the hammer.

I'd appreciate any info.

Thanks.

[pauli]

excellent choice. it's hard to get more perfect than a 4" model 10.

(but i think my 4" model 13 is a good candidate ;))

[mrrick]

You can't go wrong with a model 10, it's was the number 1 police carry gun for decades, (I have 3 of them and will buy more if I see them). For light rounds, I use Sellier and Belliot wad cutters. For high power defence rounds, the model 10 can easily handle +P rounds.

[MCgunner]

Does anyone know of anytone making more concealable grips?

I've owned five five Rossi revolvers, still own two plus a lever carbine. I loved 'em all and have kept one excellent shooting M511 Sportsman and a 3" M68. You can put pearlite grips on that Rossi snubbie like I did my M68 or any wood type, but the Pachmayr compac has a very good feel and conceals very well. If you are pocket carrying, I'd recommend you get either the pearlite or something in wood from Ajax (www.ajaxgrips.com), but for IWB, I carried a M88 for quite a few years with the compacs. I have 'em on my M511.

Pachmayr Compac:

http://x10.putfile.com/12/34710064743.jpg

Ajax Pearlite:

http://x11.putfile.com/2/4409422471.jpg

BTW, I have a M10, a 4". With a 2" it'd be concealable, no problem. Actually, the 4" is concealable no problem, IWB. However, it's not ideal. I'd rather carry the Rossi and the Rossis are good shooters. The M10 is a fine gun, though, and will serve well, but it's more of a duty revolver than a concealment gun. In an IWB, it's going to be a little fat in the belt, too. A good holster with a quality belt will help make it a lot more tolerable for all day carry.

[Hutch]

Congrats on the M10. "You have chosen wisely, Grasshoppah".:D The marks inside the crane/yoke are not police marks but something referred to as assembly numbers, and are, AFAIK, completely inscrutable. C5300** should allow someone here with a copy of the Standard Catalog (mine's not here) to indentify the year of manufacture, likely.

While all the Smiths of that era had pinned barrels, only rimfires and Magnums had recessed chambers. I have an M&P (pre Model 10) from a few years before yours, and it's a peach. You'll love it.

[Eleven Mike]

The marks...are, AFAIK, completely inscrutable. Surely someone can scrute them. :)

[FotoTomas]

I remember when I lived in NC I had to get a permit for each handgun purchase from the sheriffs office. The only good thing was I could purchase five permits at once and then buy handguns till I ran out of permits. I still have two left and they have three more years before they expire. :)

I agree that the 4 inch Model 10 with the 4" skinny barrel is a great option for concealed carry. It also is a great house gun and trainer for the spouse. I have owned many and carried them often both on and off duty. I currently compete in IDPA with its brother the Model 15. Those adjustable sights make for a better competition gun for me. I still pack the M15 with its 4" barrel on occasion.

The absolute best holster for my needs is the Summer Special by Milt Sparks or similar models by other makers. The revolver is invisable under a shirt or photo vest when carried that way. I prefer the standard skinny grips with a Tyler T-Grip adapter to fill in the area behind the triggerguard when I carry the piece.

Enjoy your fine example of Americana. :)

[MCgunner]

I remember when I lived in NC I had to get a permit for each handgun purchase from the sheriffs office. The only good thing was I could purchase five permits at once and then buy handguns till I ran out of permits. I still have two left and they have three more years before they expire.

A permit to BUY a gun????? Good lord, man, what kind of nanny state did you live in? I'd move....:rolleyes: I got 19 handguns and didn't have to ask big brother about any of 'em. I've never HEARD of having to have government permission to buy a gun.:banghead: Guess it could be worse. You could be in San Fransisco. Glad you got out of NC. :D

[Eleven Mike]

MCgunner,

I agree with the outrage, but I would guess it's more common than you think. Here in Missouri, a seperate, thirty-day permit is required to purchase each "concealable firearm." I think maybe you can put more than one on the same permit, but I don't have the funding to worry about that.

Yeah, it womps, but hey, at least since the Concealed Carry bill passed, you can carry a loaded gun in the car without a permit.

(Eleven Mike traipses off to gather more crumbs thrown down by the masters in Jeff City.)

[FotoTomas]

McGunnar... is is not so bad. The permit system in NC is in lieu of the Brady Law. The NC permit is a shall issue document if you pass the NCIC check. When you go to a shop and buy the gun you simply fill out the 4473 and take it home. The dealer does not need to call it in as that was done by the sheriff when you obtained the permit.

There were no records of the sale or serial number kept with my local sheriff back then. Only those required by the FFL holder.

Today in FL I do not need a "permit to purchase" BUT I still have to pay for and pass the background check and THEN wait three days to get the pistol. At least the NC law would let me skip a lot of that stuff. :)

[Eleven Mike]

The permit system in NC is in lieu of the Brady Law. The NC permit is a shall issue document if you pass the NCIC check. When you go to a shop and buy the gun you simply fill out the 4473 and take it home. The dealer does not need to call it in as that was done by the sheriff when you obtained the permit.

There were no records of the sale or serial number kept with my local sheriff back then. Only those required by the FFL holder.

Today in FL I do not need a "permit to purchase" BUT I still have to pay for and pass the background check and THEN wait three days to get the pistol.

Looks like NC is better than MO, in this respect, but at least we're not Florida!:neener:

[MCgunner]

Wow, I've never heard of all this. In Texas, you just walk in and buy the gun. The background check is required, but if you have a CCW permit, that gets you out of the background check. Of course, you can look in the classifieds in the paper, find a gun you want, go buy it from the individual, and there's no paperwork, no nothin'.:D The Houston paper is chock full of firearms of all descriptions. Lately, though, I've taken to going to gun shows to browse for deals. Sometimes you find something really good.:D

[helpwanted]

Do not buy a Taurus (or anything affiliated with Taurus) unless you want them to have your gun more often than you do.

[FotoTomas]

Face to face deals in NC and FL I made were all the same way. Buy, sell, trade and a handshake. I just picked up a GLOCK 19 from a friend. No government paper or interferance.

As LEO I do not have a CCW. The credentials let me carry off duty. The creds do not allow me to skip the three day wait at the gun shop but a CCW will. If I take a handgun in to trade however the three day is waived. Not much use for a "cooling off" period if you have a gun already! :D

[Eleven Mike]

Wow, I've never heard of all this. In Texas, you just walk in and buy the gun. The background check is required, but if you have a CCW permit, that gets you out of the background check. Of course, you can look in the classifieds in the paper, find a gun you want, go buy it from the individual, and there's no paperwork, no nothin'. The Houston paper is chock full of firearms of all descriptions. Lately, though, I've taken to going to gun shows to browse for deals. Sometimes you find something really good.So, you had no idea that Texas was different from other states, or do you just like to rub it in?

Are you sure there's no paperwork involved in private individual sales? I've sold and traded guns to people before, but I have no idea whether it's legal. I just kinda acted like a free person.

[wheelgunkid]

I'd get the sp101 if the 10 is too big. I've had too many Taurus lemons to take a chance with Rossi. I'd stick to S&Ws and Rugers.

[MCgunner]

I own two Tauri and they're both great wheel guns. Not a thing wrong with the one's I've owned or any of the Rossis either. I'll go head to head in a revolver accuracy match with that M66 with any wheelgun. Clamp 'em in a ransome rest and have at it. :evil:

Nope, no paperwork needed in Texas for private sales, just money and a hand shake, as it should be IMHO.

[Eleven Mike]

Nope, no paperwork needed in Texas for private sales, just money and a hand shake, as it should be IMHO. Aha! A loophole! Legislation must be introduced immediately to stop terrorists from buying guns from Texan good-ole-boys.

[MCgunner]

Yeah, this does irk the Bradys somethin' fierce. :D And, to think they worry so much about gun shows....:rolleyes:

[Eleven Mike]

Yeah, this does irk the Bradys somethin' fierce.The whole state of Texas irks them.