[eagle24]

I plan on making a dent in my box of .454 Hornady round balls this weekend. What is the recommendation on cleaning between cylinders at the range? I want to keep the fowling down so I can shoot as many rounds as possible this trip. How many shots can I expect to fire through my 58 Rem. before I gotta do a complete teardown and clean?

[sundance44s]

I know every one has their own way ... but i take a bottle of windex and spray and wipe down between cylinder loads , sometimes squirt a little down the barrel , to keep the fouling soft . I might even run a windex soaked patch through the barrel every 5 or 6 cylinders . just don`t get it wet in the cylinder holes ...or if ya do pop a cap to dry it out . i just wipe the face of the cylinder with a rag i don`t spray in the holes. take the cylinder out and spray all ya want down the barrel . it doesn`t take much time to do this with a remmie ..and it`ll keep her running smooth. after awhile you`ll know where it needs it most and when .

[Duncaninfrance]

With my 58 I pull the barrel through after each cylinder with screenwash fluid because I use a bench loader which I find much cleaner and quicker to load with.
As a cleaning material I am currently using some disposable mop clothes which dried out because the bag was not sealed properly. They are very slightly abrasive because they are man made fibres and I use a dowel with a piece over the end to clean the chambers every 3 or 4 rounds.

Takes no time at all and when I get home it minimises the complete strip and clean.
Cheers
Duncan

[Manyirons]

With my M58 i have four extra cylinders, after going through the thirty rounds for all five (#5 in gun) time to reload and perfect time to clean in between cylinder loading (Loaded on seperate cylinder loader off gun).

[finlander]

How easily the cylinder pin comes out in your Remmies? I need a mallet to get it in and out.

[Manyirons]

Clarify please RE: Mallet. When dirty or also when clean? If it is only stiff to remove when dirty i suggest more thick lubricant (Weather/cold permitting!) loads of it, more lube inside, prevents fouling (Yup it's foUling not foWling unless you're duck&goose shooting :) ) from entering, same concept with any bearing, more grease=less area for non-grease.

[sundance44s]

That cylinder pin will come out a lot easyer after you shoot 100 rounds or so ... they are very stiff when new ... i used a wooden dowel on mine for a while too , the more ya take the cylinder in and out the quicker it will ease up ... like we say the more ya shoot it the better it gets .... it`ll all smooth out soon , just keep her smokeing ..:D

[finlander]

My Rem. was used when I bought it, and, the pin won't come out without mallet/dovel whether it's clean or fouled.

[ArmedBear]

Your exact load and lube make a lot of difference, IMHO.

If I do a dry load with Wonder Wads, for example, the thing gets tight pretty quick. If I shoot with Crisco, it gets gummy, but a rubdown with a rag will remove the goo.

The lube used on the cylinder pin matters, too. I've read about some mods to hold grease like Rig or even T/C Bore Butter using grooves in the pin, but haven't tried them.

I haven't tried window cleaner. I'll have to give that a shot.:)

[Steve499]

I use rubbing alcohol. No water to rust stuff and evaporates muy pronto.

Steve

[Manyirons]

Stiff when clean OR dirty, we must look at other problems! Firstly, remove the cylinder basepin from gun, do you see any scrapes, burrs, nicks, dings etc? With the cylinder out of gun as well as the basepin, does the basepin slide in/out of the cylinder with ease? Does the basepin slide in/out of the gun with ease with cylinder out?

Do advise and we'll attempt to find a cure for this!

[sundance44s]

I did have one the cylinder pin was a little stubborn to remove even after the normal wear time ... i took the cylinder out and watched the pin slide into to recoil shield hole .. it was hanging at the hole ...so i used a piece of emory cloth and spun the end of the pin ..with it out of the gun .. and fixed no more problems ... i don`t know if the problem was with the hole size or the cylinder pin size .. but you can replace the pin and not the hole ..

[Weird Guy]

Finlander, that center pin should not be hanging up like it is. Your pistol has a problem of some kind. Remingtons are supposed to be able to slide the cylinder arbor pin in and out with next to no effort. That way you can reload a new cylinder in a few seconds and be back up and shooting quickly.

As for field cleaning I use both spray bottle solvent (windex is good...the ammonia cuts into the fouling and it dries fast). I also bought pre soaked glass cleaning wipe cloth from the gas station for washing down your car window. I just tear off a bit and use it as a soaked patch. They work ok in my Sharps, which needs cleaning after about 3 to 5 shots.

[gmatov]

Finlander,

Pull your pin and roll it over your table, if it is flat, and see if it is bent.

If it isn't it will rub on the bore of the cylinder, not line up with the recoil shied hole, be stressed all ways from Sunday.

Cheers,

George

[buttrap]

Main thing I worry about is cleaning my hands at the range, all that crap and gunk tends to lead to black fingers.

[Howdy Doody]

I am with Buttrap. I pack along those handi wipes. I clean my hands with them and they are also great for wiping off cylinder faces too.

When I am out at a 3 day event, I make sure and pack my bore snakes. I use Windex with vinagar for cleaning. I shoot a SXS and I found that I can tear a paper towel in half and stuff in each chamber and spritz from the muzzle end and then with the range rod I always carry just push all the crud out with the towels and then just lube in a secret way and I am all set for the next day of shooting.

Most big events I go to, I shoot C&B and I have some pieces of synflex tubing that I make slits in. I push the tubing over the nipples and rotate and it cleans the crud off of the nipples so I can seat the caps well. I do this every 3 cylinders full, because I hate missfires and having to hit a cap twice.:)

[Low Key]

My Rem. was used when I bought it, and, the pin won't come out without mallet/dovel whether it's clean or fouled.

Finlander...
You can get an abundance of good advice on here, but without a firsthand look at the gun it's hard to tell exactly what the problem is, so here's a thought or two about your cylinder pin.

You maybe have a couple of different things going on with the pin and they whould be simple fixes. As George suggested, roll the pin on a flat table and find out if it is bent. If it is, buy a new one...the pin must be straight to work correctly.

If it is not bent, you need to relieve it a bit to allow it to slide freely through its hole in the frame while the gun is clean. This is easy...first get some 600-800 grit sanding paper and polish the pin until it is very smooth to the touch. You won't have to take off much metal and you can slide it through the hole in the frame after sanding just a bit to check the fit. As you slide the pin into the hole, pay attention to where it becomes difficult to slide further and that will give you a clue as to what area of the pin you should concentrate on working on. Be careful and go slowly, don't be too aggressive as the amount of metal you need to remove is probably a very small bit. Once the pin slides freely, you can polish it a bit further with 0000 steel wool just the make it extra smooth and give the fouling fewer microscopic jags to catch on. You can also glue some sandpaper to a dowel rod and polish the hole in the frame where the cylinder pin slides in, the smoother the pin and its hole are, the better they will work.

When you are shooting the gun, the fouling that does accumulate on the cylinder pin will make it more diffucult to remove than it is whlile the gun is clean, so you want to keep that fouling as soft as possible so it doesn't act as a glue. The solution that works best for me is to use a lube pill, which is a mixture of beeswax, lard, and olive oil. You can experiment with the proportions to find the consistency you like best...more beeswax makes a stiffer mixture, more lard or olive oil make the mixture softer and stickier. You want it to be stiff enough so that when you cut out your pills you can handle them without them smashing and smearing all over. I use a .45 auto casing with the end cut off to cut my pills and I try to make them about 3mm thick.

I load the lube pill on top of a dry wad on top of the powder and then seat the ball on top of the pill. It gives you more lubrication than over the ball lube does and will keep the fouling soft enough to keep your cylinder pin unbound.

Hope that helps. Nothing is as much fun as fixing small problems so that a gun runs like a finely tuned machine!

[finlander]

roll the pin on a flat table and find out if it is bent.

No bent, at least I didn't notice any. It doesn't seem to line up with the recoil shield hole. Have to wait for Monday to get the sand paper, finest I have is 200.

[gmatov]

Finlander,

I don't know, but it could be that your frame window is twisted.

I bought a "gun in a box" that had the barrell wrenched off with a pipe wrench, not only tooth marks on the barrell, no problem , as it was cheap, but the joker must have grabbed it way towards the hammer to hold it, twisted the frame, the pin was way off line. Had to untwist it.

IF you have the facilitiy to do any measurement to see if your frame is twisted, I don't think there is a parrallell surface on these pistols to get a reference point from.. You can just twist them to make them correct. NO spec to adhere to. Twist to make the pin go in easily, the cylinder, also, and to get a clear no shade of cylinder when you look down the bore, cylinder/chamber line up is close.

Cheers,

George

[finlander]

I bought a "gun in a box" that had the barrell wrenched off with a pipe wrench, not only tooth marks on the barrell, no problem , as it was cheap, but the joker must have grabbed it way towards the hammer to hold it, twisted the frame, the pin was way off line.

I'm afraid my problem is something like that. The barrel has been wrenched, there are marks on the barrel. The barrel is not perfectly aligned with the top of the frame, so it hasn't been "wrenched enough".

IF you have the facilitiy to do any measurement to see if your frame is twisted, I don't think there is a parrallell surface on these pistols to get a reference point from.. You can just twist them to make them correct. NO spec to adhere to. Twist to make the pin go in easily, the cylinder, also, and to get a clear no shade of cylinder when you look down the bore, cylinder/chamber line up is close.

I guess I'm not able to do any reliable measurements... Maybe I have to send the revolver to gunsmith, there is one who is specialized in SA revolvers. On the other hand, it usually costs money, so maybe I try to twist it myself. Maybe you can give some instructions? Or do I just ruin the gun if I don't know exatcly what I'm doing?

Why didn't I just bought a new Pietta :mad: ?

[Low Key]

Finlander...
Sorry to hear that you have a more complicated problem. I was hoping that the cylinder pin just needed to be relieved a bit to solve the sticking problem. gmatov(George) can really help you out on getting that fixed yourself--he knows his stuff and has had to deal with the exact same problem.

I have heard that these replica makers use some type of loc-tite on the barrel threads and that they can be seriously difficult to remove from the frame. Whoever had your gun prior to you may have used it as a gunsmithing practice piece, and then got rid of it when they boogered it up. :(

[oneshooter]

For cleaning BP foUling I have found that Simple Green works well. Sinply cut it 3/1 with water. A little bottle of concentrate, 10-12oz, cleans a LOT of BP crud (foUling to Manyirons). Also I use a 50/50 mix of Bore Butter and bees wax to soak my wads in. This works well in my Sharps 45/70 also. The advantage of the Colt style revolver is the grooved cylinder pin. The grooves are designed to hold a heavy lubercant to keep the foUling (crud to most of us) soft for repeated loadings. My Colt style revolvers when loaded with 35gr (44cal) and 28gr (36cal) will fire 3 cylinders full, 15 rds, before the action begins to slow.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[Dick Dastardly]

Many Pards, including myself, shoot entire two day yearly CAS matches without any need to clean our C&B guns to maintain function or accuracy. The secret isn't the powder and it's not the lube formula. It's the amount of lube carried by our bullets.

Specifically, the bullets are the DD/ROA 45-210 Big Lube(tm) design. Bad Gene Poole has won a list of events long as my arm with this bullet. There are many winners world wide now shooting this bullet including pards like Paladin UK.

The bullets are lube/sized in advance of the match and taken to the loading table in snap cap vials that hold five bullets each. Enough lube/sized DD/ROA bullets for an entire two day match takes about as much room as a box of shotgun shells.

When loading, powder is poured into the chamber much as you are doing now. Then, the lube/sized bullet is sat over the chamber and the rebated heal starts into the chamber. When the bullet is seated, no metal ring is shaved off because the bullet is sized for a nice snug interference fit. The huge lube ring effectivly seals the chamber and proveds plenty of lube. There is no need or reason to put messy lube over the cylinder face.

The guns run great with plenty of lube and a nice wet muzzle lube star.

www.biglube.com

DD-DLoS

[gmatov]

finlander,

I don't know how mechanically inclined you are. I do know I did not have the equipment to tighten my removed barel back to center without doing at least as much damage to the barrel as I had already cleaned up.

So, I did take it to a local gunsmith, just to have him use his barrel wrench to crank it less than one flat further, to put the sight back on top.

A barrel wrench is a rather long, very stiff piecs of bar stock, maybe 1 inch (25 mm square) and another piece of maybe 1/2 inch by 4 inch by 1 inch wide "keeper". You would cut 2 pieces of oak or maple to fit between the bolts holding the "keeper" to the lever. You would make half a hole in each piece of wood to fit the contour of the barrel, with the '58, an 11/16, 17 mm, half octagon.

If you do woodwork, you can do this with a router, with a straight and a 45 degree bit. Cut the 2 pieces to fit the barrel, lock it onto the barrel, grasp the barrel, suitably padded with wood, in your vise, and apply pressure, turn it true to the top of the frame.

Look down the barrel, see if you have any crescent of chamber showing, when you do force the pin into the cylinder. If you see a crescent on the left side, your frame is twisted to the left, the pin is trying to go straight, the hole is to the right of the pin's travel. They twisted the frame when unscrewing the barrel.

Grip the frame at the rear, where the hammer sits, as there is a metal bridge there, you will not crush anything. If you have made a barrel wrench, or had someone do this for you, attempt to tighten the barrel(it should not turn anymore, it should be very tight) but it should take out some of the twist. Check what you have accomplished, and if it is not enough, try again.

I did it with a cast iron machine tool for the solid surface, blocked and shimmed, with brass for protection, moved the metal with large C clamps, a dial indicator on the metal to stop me, move so far, release, indicator springs back, screw down some more, till I got a sufficient twist, removed, checked alignment, final got it within a few thousandths. I think it is fine now. No crescent visible, cylinder goes in easy, pin slides free.

I think I now need an arbor press, should I ever need to do such again.

Cheers,

George

[finlander]

Thanks for the instructions George, though I'm not sure if I dare to try to fix the problem myself. First I'm going to ask few gunsmiths how much they would take for fixing the problem.

[gmatov]

Finlander,

Meaning no insult but, do not ask how much they will "take" to fix your pistol.

Ask them how much they will charge you. They'll take as much as they think the traffic will bear.

If it winds up being too much, let me know, I'll set up on my own, act out the process, snap some pictures and walk you through it, e-mail the pictures, and some printed instructions.

I don't know how much you paid, my own was 71 USD, less than half the price of new, and I've been a mechanic all my life. So, even if it were unrepairable, the parts would be worth that, cylinder, springs, hammer, bolt, all that.

Cheers,

George

[finlander]

Meaning no insult but, do not ask how much they will "take" to fix your pistol. Ask them how much they will charge you.

Ah, it's just my bad english, I don't always remember or know correct expressions or words for certain situtations.

I paid 230€ (~280$) for it. I could have got a new Pietta for 230€ (not in stock, another month wait that would have been) but as I had pretty bad "gun-fever" I bought this one from local gunsmith. But hey, it looked all righty-right and the gunsmith said nothing about these "little flaws". Stupid me. I was too hasty, but hopefully I learned something.

[Duncaninfrance]

If you bought it locally why not take it back and ask the smith to fix it Free as he obvioiusly charged you a premium price for it in the first place.
If he argues about it quote from these posts.

Good luck.
Duncan

[gmatov]

Finlander,

Excellent English. Even us Americans can understand it, and Duncan, the Brit does, too. So it can't be that bad.

Duncan is right. If you bought it locally, used, at new price, the "gunsmith did you a disservice. He cheated you, in other words. He sold you a piece of bad quality. If the barrel was marred as though someone had tried to either remove it or replace it, and did not even get the barrel squared to the frame, and did not check to see if the frame was twisted, he is not a gunsmith, he is a hack, a butcher.
I would take it back for a refund, and if not that, I would insist that he make it correct. It is not a big deal. This is what gunsmiths should do.

Good luck with it.

If worst comes to worst, how much would it cost to ship to the US, at about a 3 pound package rate? I might be able to help you out, and I do not have this as a business, simply offering to help, as an old retired fart with little to do.

Cheers,

George

[finlander]

I would take it back for a refund, and if not that, I would insist that he make it correct. It is not a big deal. This is what gunsmiths should do.

Well, you see, I already took it back the to smith. I haven't noticed the cyl. pin problem yet, I was asking if he would get the rust out of the barrel and if he would twist the barrel to it's natural place. Well, he tried to remove the rust with steel wool but no luck, twisting he hadn't even tried. I even offered him money for that barrel twisting job thinking that would be the problem but he said "Ah, way too much work, no time, ask the local gunsmithing school".

I'll go one more time to his shop to complain about the twisted frame but I have my suspects. I'm afraid I'm being too polite.

[/QUOTE]If worst comes to worst, how much would it cost to ship to the US, at about a 3 pound package rate? I might be able to help you out, and I do not have this as a business, simply offering to help, as an old retired fart with little to do.[/QUOTE]

Well, I have to ask local police how big deal it would be, sending a firearm to foreign country I mean. I appreciate your offer but I'm afraid that it isn't simple, that sending.

[sundance44s]

sounds like your gun smith knew the problems when he sold you the gun ... now he`s putting you off .. your way too nice ! he`s hopeing you and the problem gun will just go away .... pard i`d stay in his face till he refunded my money or fixed it . he wouldn`t want his other customers around to hear what he sold you .... remember that , and use it well !

[Duncaninfrance]

but he said "Ah, way too much work, no time, ask the local gunsmithing school".
Don't you have such a thing as a trading standards officer or a weights & measures office who make sure that trading is fair, reasonable and that items bought are 'Fit for the purpose' they were bought for. If you have then get them involved or just quote them to your smith and tell him ityou will go as far as it takes to sort it out.
If that fails, put a poster in your car and park it outside his shop!

Cheers
Duncan:evil:

[finlander]

Don't you have such a thing as a trading standards officer or a weights & measures office

Yes we do have such a officer, BUT I bought da gun almost three months ago and I'm afraid that it's too late to complain. There's some time limit there, I'd guess.

[Duncaninfrance]

Yes we do have such a officer, BUT I bought da gun almost three months ago and I'm afraid that it's too late to complain. There's some time limit there, I'd guess.
I would still give it a try, won't cost anything to try will it?
That just leaves the car outside the shop with
THIS IS NOT A NICE GUNSMITHS in the window:evil:
Duncan

[sjohns]

Yes your english is fine.

I don't care too much for the gunsmith thinking it'll take up too much of his time. I agree with the others that he knew what he sold you.

Do you have a minor court there, what we would call a small claims court? It might be inexpensive to file a complaint and have a judge settle it, but if you can talk him into a refund, that would be better.

IF... you can get your money back... order that Pietta that you wanted, the wait will result in satisfaction.

Scott

[finlander]

Well, I spoke with the gunsmith today and told him about my suspections about the frame (hadn't the gun with me). I then asked if he would give me some money for compensation or if he would repair the gun. Few minutes of hmm, ah, well well. He then said that oh well, but you've had the gun for several months and shot hundreds through it already, and what do you say if I imagine that you've twisted the frame yourself? And you examined the gun before you bought it, said he.

So, doesn't look too good. I'll take the gun to him some day, I'll see what he'll say.

[Duncaninfrance]

So, doesn't look too good. I'll take the gun to him some day, I'll see what he'll say.

Well, if it were me I would be in his face 'till he pointed a gun at me and asked me to leave the shop. Even then I might argue another hour or two, but that's me, I don't like being ripped off.

How many rounds HAVE you fired through it as a matter of fact? You could also point out that you were a novice when you bought it and expected that the smith would be helpful not taking advantage of your lack of knowledge.

Up to you my friend but if all you can do is put it down to experience then you still come out of it wiser but poorer!
Duncan

[Steve499]

I might be tempted to put a big sign board on my vehicle stating my doubts about said gunsmith's honesty, then spending every spare minute I had parked as close to his business as could get, you know, kicking back, reading books, napping, having picnics, etc.

Steve

[Manyirons]

And hiring some wino bums for some juice ta hang out in and around his shop harrassing people claiming they work for him! (Ahem, I'VE NEVER done any such thing!) :)

[finlander]

How many rounds HAVE you fired through it as a matter of fact?

Somewhere around one hundred and fifty rounds, I'd say.

He'll probably rather repair the gun than give me any money back, but if he's giving me compensation, what would be right price for used, rust in bore, barrel twisted, frame twisted Uberti if new one costs 300-350€?

[Manyirons]

Exactly what you paid for it! With all those problems its pretty useless to ya no?

And i invite you again, if ya cant get satisfaction ta send it over, tha kraut says he'll see to it for ya!

[MCgunner]

I'll fire up to fifty rounds at the range in my Old Army and never clean squat. I just clean it soon as I get home with it. Never seems to matter. The Old Army doesn't gum up too bad like some of the reproductions do. It has a little flange around the cylinder pin that deflects fouling on firing, for instance. I've had my Navy replica slow down and lock up from fouling, but never had a problem with the Old Army. I don't shoot that .31 Remmie too much, but I've put forty or fifty rounds through it before without cleaning anything.

[Duncaninfrance]

Has the smith you bought it from got an e.mail address by any chance? Not that I would do anything illegal, just asking :rolleyes: :evil: :fire: :cuss:
Duncan

[Manyirons]

Good question Duncan! Finlander! DO publish tha address!!!

[sjohns]

Finlander!

Have you ever considered the notion that this might be a good reason to take up smithing a little?

[finlander]

Have you ever considered the notion that this might be a good reason to take up smithing a little?

Yep, I've considered.

Exactly what you paid for it!

I paid 230€ for it. New Pietta Remingtons are 230€-330€ depending on where you buy it. I haven't seen new Uberti Remingtons around but Uberti Colts are about 400€, hope that gives some picture of the prices.

[finlander]

Spoke with the smith, after ten minutes of hmm, ah, well well and few calls to the previous owners of the gunshop he promised to repair it (or was it TRY to repair it) well anyway next week we'll see if he can make it right.

[Duncaninfrance]

Well done Finlander, If he is prepared to try and sort it out then that's an admission of guilt so I HOPE you get a result. If not just keep on at him.
Duncan

[The Sicilian]

You guys are excellent! I learned a little bit about being persistant too, though I've always been persistant when I feel someone has taken advantage of me. I wonder if Fin has gotten the revolver back yet?

[finlander]

Got the gun back from the smith, the cylinder pin moves easily now. Good.

[The Sicilian]

Hey Fin,

I thought the frame was twisted and the barrel needed to be advanced a little bit, Did the smith take care of these problems also?

[finlander]

Twisted frame problem did he take care of, corrects that also the cylinder pin problem. Remains the problem with the barrel but live with that I can.

[The Sicilian]

Glad to hear the smithy took care of the problems. Did you ask why he didn't re-align the barrel though? It must be hard to aim if the front site doesn't meet the channel? Well, if you're happy then I guess it really doesn't matter. Have a good time shooting it!

The Sicilian

[finlander]

Barrel misalignment is so slight that it doesn't affect aiming.

He was afraid that he'll twist the frame if he tried to align the barrel. That's what he said.

[The Sicilian]

Interesting,

This guy doesn't sound like the most competent gun smith out there, now does he? I would assume that a good gun smith would be able to realign a barrel without too much worry. But what do I know! I've only just begun to learn about all of the different aspects of BP shooting and proper care.

[Duncaninfrance]

Hi Finlander. I am glad that you got some sort of a result after all. Put it down to experience and you will be so much the wiser next time!
Enjoy your shooting.
Duncan