Advice Needed: Kel - Tec .223s?


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PRCalDude
March 17, 2006, 08:05 PM
Does anybody have any experience with the Kel - Tec SU - 16 series of .223 carbines? I've been told good things about them by a local gun store, and was wondering what to expect from them. Thanks.

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10-Ring
March 17, 2006, 08:11 PM
From my experience, they seem like a really nice value w/ a lot of versatility built into them....I'm guessing from your screen name you're a CA resident...have you bought your non-list ar lower yet?

PRCalDude
March 17, 2006, 08:19 PM
No, I wanted to save up for a .308 semiauto, like a M1A or FAL. Of course, who knows when those'll be banned as well? Seeing as I live in LA, it seems smart to own a large caliber rifle in case those periodic, pesky riots come down my street.

10-Ring
March 17, 2006, 11:56 PM
I hear ya, but being able to purchase an AR style rifle in CA is just such a far cry from just a few weeks ago that it seemed almost unpatriotic not to climb on board that band wagon...it's my duty to build one (or 3)!

1911_Mitch
March 18, 2006, 12:44 AM
Defintely purchase an "off-list" lower. Its only 150 - 200 bucks, and you can get the other parts later. You probably have about another 30-90 days, but maybe not. After the DOJ lists them, you will not be able to get these lowers in Cali anymore (unless manufactures change model names), and/or unless CA laws change to ban all semi-autos), etc.. Visit Calguns.net for more info. Click on: Forums, Legal & Political, .223 AR variants. ALSO it is mandatory to read the FAQ which is highlighted in red at the top of every Calguns.net page. This FAQ explains the whole "off-list" lower situation.

As for the Kel-tec, I have a SU-16CA and like it a lot. Very light. Folds compactly (I can put it in a 24" suitcase). Shoots good (averages ~2" groups at 100, which is fine accuracy from a mostly plastic gun.) Add the compact forend which gives you top and bottom rails. Add a red dot optic and you are good to go. It takes AR mags, and since it is not classified as an assault weapon (for now), you can have detachable mags. Do not add a forward pistol grip, a flash hider, or other PC 12276.1 features, lest you be guilty of a felony.

GW
March 18, 2006, 03:10 AM
I like mine
The sights are just serviceable but it shoots a lot better with a red dot
I put a Hakko BED-35 on it and its shooting great

thereisnospoon
March 18, 2006, 03:24 AM
+1

As Donald Sutherland said to Dustin Hoffman in the Graduate..."Plastic":D

rangerruck
March 18, 2006, 03:55 AM
it is very light, has fold out bipod legs, which are good when you are in a hurry for some support, and has interchangeable stuff with an ar. it is a good value.

PRCalDude
March 18, 2006, 12:37 PM
Sounds pretty darn good to me. 2" at 100yds is about all the accuracy that's needed. Definitely sounds like a better value than a mini-14. Thanks all.

GW
March 18, 2006, 12:44 PM
Well, as stated earlier, you still can get an AR-15 lower receiver and build it up into a fixed 10-round mag rifle. (With an eye toward converting to a detachable mag rifle when legal/able) You can build one up for about $750, including the fixed mag kit. You can probably do better on the price if you're a sharp buyer.
However, if you don't want to take that route, I recommend the SU-16 over the Mini-14
I own both and prefer the SU-16
YMMV
At any rate get something while you are able
Who knows what mischief the California legislature is going to cause?

RKCheung
March 18, 2006, 12:59 PM
Quick comment, if you get the SU-16 (and you should), be sure to get the Bravo or CA version. The sights on the Alpha are atrocious and although you can buy the Bravo sights for it, it is not that easy to switch. Better to spend your time/money on something that is good right out of the box.

PRCalDude
March 20, 2006, 04:43 PM
Gents,

How do I go about buying and off list lower?

Kestryll
March 20, 2006, 04:48 PM
Check the forum here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=81

Foxtrot427
March 20, 2006, 05:44 PM
Well Id rather have one than a mini-14 I think. But they both have the heating problem.

BillinNH
March 20, 2006, 06:54 PM
Quote:
<Quick comment, if you get the SU-16 (and you should), be sure to get the Bravo or CA version. The sights on the Alpha are atrocious and although you can buy the Bravo sights for it, it is not that easy to switch. Better to spend your time/money on something that is good right out of the box.>

The Alpha has an 18" barrel. The other models are 16" or shorter. You have to get the Alpha if you want a longer barrel.

Frankly, I think they should offer one with a 20" bbl.

Bill

browningguy
March 20, 2006, 10:58 PM
I really like shooting my "A" model, but I agree with the previous posters, if possible get the B or CA model for the better sights. I use mine with optics so don't really worry too much about it. There has been at least one test where the owner went through several hundred rounds as fast as he could change mags with no functioning problems in case that seems to be an issue.

Mine has been extremely reliable over about 18 months and shoots 55 gr. loads pretty consistantly at around 2", I've only used factory ammo, normally Blackhills reloads or Winchester white box so they may do better with handloads, different weights or higher quality ammo. But it's good enough for my plinking needs.

In short, it's the right weight for a .223, reasonable accurate, tough enough for everyday non-military use, uses AR mags, and around here are much cheaper than an AR. What's not to like?

railroader
March 21, 2006, 12:45 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=30568 Check this out. This guy on the cal guns forum is working on a cali legal ar that use detachable mags. Mark

MagnumCaliber357
March 21, 2006, 03:16 PM
that doesnt look half bad. It actually looks half good :D

LeoC
March 21, 2006, 04:06 PM
I own and shoot a 'Bravo' and am very happy with it. I did have a firing pin break on me, which KelTec replaced for free and within a week (including round-trip postal time from CA to FL!). I bought a spare one anyway. The Alpha has an 18" barrel. The other models are 16" or shorter. You have to get the Alpha if you want a longer barrel.
The Alpha also has a thicker barrel than the Bravo. This will give you better accuracy than the Bravo when rapid-fire heats the barrels up. The Alpha also has the longest sight radius of all the SU-16s. Pretty close to the best SU-16 trim, imo, when upgraded with the Bravo sight kit.

Frankly, I think they should offer one with a 20" bbl.
+1 to that. Instead, they seem to be making shorter and shorter barrels. 18" Alpha -> 16" Bravo, Charlie, CA ->12" Delta and ->9" Delta :eek: And now the PLR HANDGUN:rolleyes: But then again, KelTec is know for making supercompact guns, so I guess the tendency to shorten is a company thing.

akodo
March 21, 2006, 05:22 PM
question about mag storage.

How are 20 round mags stored in the stock. From the picture it appears taht a pair of 20s should be able to be stored just like a pair of 10s, but the info says pair of 10s or single 20 or single 30. Do you have to put 20s and 30s in sideways or something?

browningguy
March 21, 2006, 10:45 PM
Yes the 20 rd. mags go in the stock sideways, not enough tension to keep them in place if you try to put two of the larger mags in vertically.The KelTec mags are plastic and only hold ten rounds, very light weight.

akodo
March 23, 2006, 05:03 PM
wait a second, are we talking storing empty or loaded mags?

because really, isn't the weight of a loaded mag much more influenced by the fact that it is full than how light weight the maghousing is. As in, sure, keltecs mags may be light when empty, but you load em up and they should be a lot heftier...hence the need for a stronger clamp.

Kevlarman
March 23, 2006, 07:18 PM
The SU-16's stock can hold either 2 10-round mags or 1 20/30 round mag. empty or full.

In fact, the little detents in the stock were so tight that once I put a 30-round mag in the stock, I needed a screwdriver to leverage the mag out of there! I called Kel-Tec and they sent me some shorter pins, so now I'm able to remove the mag with my bare fingers.

With a 30-rounder in the stock and a 30-rounder in the magwell, the SU-16 would make a great bug out rifle.

browningguy
March 23, 2006, 07:40 PM
Yes, as I mentioned "The KelTec mags are plastic and only hold ten rounds, very light weight." I guess I should have been more clear that means loaded to their full manufactured capacity.

crazed_ss
March 24, 2006, 12:54 AM
Meh.. I've been following this lower thing for awhile.
The off-list lower idea is a good one, but personally I refuse to own a nerfed break-open AR-15. Sure they can easily be converted back to normal detachable mag rifle... but who wants to become a felon and go to prison over a rifle? I seriously doubt the CA DOJ will ever give us the oppurtunity to own detachable mag ARs ever again. If they have to, they'll pass some legislation to say these off-list lowers can never have detachable mags.

I'd get a SU-16CA or go all out and get a M1A before getting an off-list lower.

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