Carrying in car without CCW

[Topgun]

It is generally illegal to carry a gun in a car w/o CCW. However, if a gun is INSIDE a ...NEUTRAL.... container (IOW not a gun case) ...AND...there is no "probable cause" for a LEO to demand opening the container, it seems that a combo lock briefcase would be an ideal container.

I have CCW. My wife does not. When she travels, our state wants to ensure that she is in maximum danger at all times. If...I... had a gun in such a locked innocuous briefcase and she didn't ...know... ;) the combination and it was just "her husband's thing" and she got stopped for a traffic violation or God forbid was involved in an accident, it seems to me that the case would remain CLOSED throughout the incident.

Is this true or false?

I....think..... that this is a legitimate "Strategy and Tactic" but it is sure a difficult way to get information with our vigilant moderators so eager to move threads. I simply asked earlier (with no responses due to thread move) for a SOURCE for such a case as I know I have seen them but can't remember where.

Previous post: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=189753

Now.... I would like to find one of these cases and don't think it in any way violates any "Strategies and Tactics" requirements.

I may discover otherwise, but hope not.

So I appeal again...... has anyone seen such a case in a store somewhere?

:confused:

[Sistema1927]

I think that you need to move to a free country.

[Dave P]

http://cgi.ebay.com/PM-Company-Securit-Combo-Lock-Steel-Cash-Box-PMC04961_W0QQitemZ7552951772QQcategoryZ25384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[aufevermike]

You don't say what state you are in. However, here in AK you no longer need a permit to CCW. But when you did a gun was considered concealed unless it was "on your person"

[Topgun]

DaveP.... That might work. I'd have to put it in a briefcase or organizer probably. What I really want is a small "professional looking" leatherette or somesuch locking organizer. Small briefcase. The ones I have found are large things. I had one at one time and goofily sold or tossed it.

[crofrog]

uh, why not just get her a CCW.

[Mannlicher]

perfectly legal in Florida.

[Zundfolge]

Yet another reason I love Colorado ... perfectly to CCW in your car without a permit (this includes wearing a gun on your person concealed).

Of course once you step out of the car (except on your own property) you are in violation of the law if you're CCWing without a permit ... but its only a minor misdemeanor. ;)

[Aloha!]

California has what is called a "closed container rule." This means if I have probable cause to search the interior of a vehicle (which includes glovebox), for weapons, I can search ANY closed container that could conceivably contain a weapon. If you have a briefcase and do not know the combination, I can forcibly open that too. Now the question is, will I? That all depends on how suspicious you are, and how much of an "Adam-Henry" you are. I agree with an earlier post, why don't you just get your wife a ccw also?

By the way, there is no such thing as a "minor misdemeanor." You will get arrested, cited and then released. The next time you get caught, it now becomes a felony.

[parsec]

Zundfolge:

That's true as long as you're not in Denver. The current ruling regarding the state's preemption law is that it applies to CCW permits ONLY. This means that the preemption law forces Denver to issue permits, but they can still prohibit those who do not have a permit from concealing in a vehicle. Another implication of this is that Denver's assault weapon ban is still in place. That's the way things are until the Colorado Supreme Court issues its ruling, whenever that will be. Anyway, I thought that deserved some clarification.

[Topgun]

I think "probable cause" would be a tough sell on a 62 year old woman who may have done a rolling stop or 5-7 MPH over the limit.

As far as a search "consent" forget it.

:D

[Topgun]

The CCW has to be issued to EITHER me or wife. They just won't buy that we BOTH might carry considerable sums of cash, jewelry, and gold.

????????????

Just the way it is in Calif.

[Topgun]

I once had a cop several years ago who came to the house to take a report on a property damage issue. I invited him in and we were getting ready for work and I had my Commander holstered on my belt.
He got leery. (probly wise...not knowing)
I showed him my license.
He was still leery.
We got in the car after he left and drove off. Coat now on and covering gun.
He pulls us over a block from the house.
I show him license again.
He calls someone at HQ who musta said, "LET EM GO....IT'S OKAY"
:D
He was still nervous.

[Aloha!]

There is a saying, "It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six." If you or your wife feel unsafe because of your surroundings or the type of work you do, so much so you feel the necessity to carry a ccw (illegal in Ca.), then I think you should take whatever measures you need to in order to protect your lives, whether that be carrying a ccw, knife...up to and including moving to a safer location or a safer way of doing business. No job is worth your life or your wife's.

It's a sad state of affairs when a man can't conduct business for fear of badguys, or because the local cops put you in jail for carrying protection. I would like to see good people able to protect themselves. In California, it would be hard-pressed to make ccw legal. Walk around LA and ask yourself, what would I do if even half of these idiots carried weapons? I for one would move to Council Bluffs, Iowa the next day...

[Shootcraps]

It is generally illegal to carry a gun in a car w/o CCW. However, if a gun is INSIDE a ...NEUTRAL.... container (IOW not a gun case) ...AND...there is no "probable cause" for a LEO to demand opening the container, it seems that a combo lock briefcase would be an ideal container.

If someone is driving a car, aren't they responsible for everything that's in the car, no matter who it belongs to??

Doesn't Kali have the rule that a loaded magazine in the same container with a gun equals a loaded gun?

Sounds like you're trying to skirt the law and do something you're not supposed to. Hope you have a good lawyer and deep pockets.

[Zundfolge]

Good point parsec ... just one of the thousands of reasons to avoid Denver ;)

[larry_minn]

Get wife a permit. State that sometimes she has to carry the $$$$ stuff.
(for the life of me I never understood that) "You can only get a permit if you carry large sums of cash/valuables..... BUT you can NOT shoot someone to protect property" So WHY can't I get permit to protect MY LIFE???? But I could for property???

[Aloha!]

Robbery is a crime of violence, the taking of personal property in one's immediate possession through force or fear. A legal ccw permit for someone carrying $$$ is to protect their life from violent attacks, not the $$$. Property is different. If I found someone trying to steal my new red Jeep, as much as I would like to shoot him (kidding), all I can do is call the police. That's why a pay $900 a year for car insurance. Property can be replaced.

[offthepaper]

Larry
-------------
It really is irony at it's best, or worse.
You can get a CCW to protect property.
You cannot get a CCW to protect life.
You're not allowed to shoot someone to protect property (at least in my state).
You may possibly be allowed to shoot to defend life (depends on state)

Bassackwards?:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Trebor]

The legality of your possible actions really depend on the laws of your state. Consult an attorney in your state who is familiar with the relevant laws. That's the best advice I can give.

[p35]

In WA at least, police can't search locked containers without a warrant. Tool boxes and cash boxes would work. Of course, WA is shall-issue, so why not just get the permit?

[SilverState]

It depends on where you are and where the gun is and whether the gun is loaded or not and whether the person driving has a CCW or not.

[BedPimp]

From what I recall, in CA, a handgun in a vehicle must be unloaded and in a locked container. The glove box is excluded as a locked container. Also, ammunition cannot be stored in the container with the gun. Long guns do not need to be locked, but they do need to be unloaded. There may be some other restrictions regarding why it's in the vehicle, going to the range, hunting, taking the !@#$% Winchester back to the gunsmith for warranty work, etc.

Todd
Who is not a lawyer and does not play one on TV

[Hikingman]

If you're one of the good guys and keep it out of sight? I knew a family man in Memphis who carried his Ruger Mk I/Mk II series pistol under the seat of the Jeep Cherokee. The clip was in the back end of the vehicle. He didn't want to get in trouble with the law, with the .22 being loaded. Okay.

[p35]

RCW 9.41.050:

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
.

(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

If that's what you were asking.

[Twycross]

:rolleyes: Move to Idaho.

18-3302.

(9) While in any motor vehicle, inside the limits or confines of any city or inside any mining, lumbering, logging or railroad camp a person shall not carry a concealed weapon on or about his person without a license to carry a concealed weapon. This shall not apply to any pistol or revolver located in plain view whether it is loaded or unloaded. A firearm may be concealed legally in a motor vehicle so long as the weapon is disassembled or unloaded.

In response to the original post, I'm with Trebor. An attorney from your own state could probably help you out better than we can.

[Squawker]

Fortunately, in most of Nevada, you can carry a loaded hand gun concealed in the car (not on person), without a CCW. There are, however, localities that prohibit this. Strangely enough, Las Vegas allows it, the smaller city of North Las Vegas does not.

[Shootcraps]

That's one thing I like about Virginia. The State Legislature makes all laws concerning guns. The cities and counties may not. Keeps things uniform.

[Hawkmoon]

California has what is called a "closed container rule." This means if I have probable cause to search the interior of a vehicle (which includes glovebox), for weapons, I can search ANY closed container that could conceivably contain a weapon. If you have a briefcase and do not know the combination, I can forcibly open that too. Now the question is, will I? That all depends on how suspicious you are, and how much of an "Adam-Henry" you are. I agree with an earlier post, why don't you just get your wife a ccw also?
But does a routine traffic stop give you probable cause to be searching the interior of the vehicle? I think not. I think you have the right to perform a cursory inspection of the area immediately under control of the driver to ensure there are no weapons, but you don't have blanket authority to toss the entire vehicle, up to and including locked containers.

[Shootcraps]

But does a routine traffic stop give you probable cause to be searching the interior of the vehicle?I think not. I think you have the right to perform a cursory inspection of the area immediately under control of the driver to ensure there are no weapons, but you don't have blanket authority to toss the entire vehicle, up to and including locked containers.


That's right. Gotta have PC to search like that.

[mp510]

Pursuant to the case law of Carroll v. United States (1925) and more modern case law, the police do have a right to search in locked containers without a warrant. They only need probable cause, which has nothing to do with the appearance of the locked container according to the Supreme Court. Under Florida v Wells (1990), it was held that Law enforcement Officers havethe ability to forrcfully open a locked container to preserve property, or to avoid unnecesary danger. I take that to mean that if the officer thinks that there may be a weapon that can be used agianst him during the traffic stop, he would have a right under Wells to protect himself and search, especially if the container was in reach of the driver. The other supreme court rulings have heald that ability to search some of the car, opens the entire car.

I suggest reading this information from the Federal Law Enforcemetn Training Center:
http://www.fletc.gov/legal/qr_articles/LOCKEDCONTAINERS.pdf

[Clean97GTI]

Fortunately, in most of Nevada, you can carry a loaded hand gun concealed in the car (not on person), without a CCW. There are, however, localities that prohibit this. Strangely enough, Las Vegas allows it, the smaller city of North Las Vegas does not.

and isn't it funny that NLV tends to have the highest crime rates in the entire valley? Strange isn't it. :banghead:

I'm firmly of the belief that the law (forbidding ALL weapons. not just guns) should have been thrown out when the state adopted a preemption law. Such a ruling would have also tossed out Clark County's handgun registration as well. Clark didn't want to lose it and other counties didn't want to adopt it, thus, the registration and NLV's stupid law remain valid.

BTW, I've posted the relevant statutes if anyone cares.
North Las Vegas City Code

9.32.080 Deadly weapon prohibited in vehicle--Exceptions.
It is unlawful for any person to have in his possession in any automobile, truck, motorcycle, or any other type of vehicle any dangerous or deadly weapon, but this restriction shall not be deemed to prohibit the carrying of ordinary tools or equipment carried in good faith for uses of honest work, trade or business, or for the purpose of legitimate sport or recreation.
(perhaps "equipment" is general enough to include firearms for legit sport end recreation. I myself have been stopped while carrying a knife. The officer removed it during the traffic stop and it was returned to me at the conclusion, no questions or comments.)


NRS 244.364 Limited authority to regulate firearms.

* 1. Except as otherwise provided by specific statute, the legislature reserves for itself such rights and powers as are necessary to regulate the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada, and no county may infringe upon those rights and powers.
* 2. A board of county commissioners may proscribe by ordinance or regulation the unsafe discharge of firearms.
* 3. As used in this section, “firearm” means any weapon from which a projectile is discharged by means of an explosive, spring, gas, air or other force.

(Added to NRS by 1989, 652)
*you'll notice that this law says county. If you look up NRS 268.418 and 269.222 you'll see county replaced with "city" and "town' respectively.* The only reason the Clark county registration and NLV weapon prohibition still stand is because they were in effect prior to 1989 when the preemption laws were adopted.

Needless to say, I am glad to have moved out of North Las Vegas and back into Sin City proper. :evil:

[QuickDraw]

If the cop has to open it with force,how does the
court think the driver can open it without letting the
cop know somethings up?

QuickDraw

[gunsmith]

I had an open carry security guard permit but no ccw.
I carried anyway, and tried hard not to get noticed by local PD.

afaik you are allowed to carry shotguns and rifles but that ammo can not be attached (as in a magazine).

A double barrel shotgun and a box of shells would be legal.

Don't be so sure that ccw won't change in CA, I have a feeling Jim March
will pull off a ccw revolution one of these days.