[Marshall]

When did S&W get into the rifle business?

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&pageSize=10&published=1&beginIndex=0&resultType=2&attributeName1=Model&attributeValue1=M%26P15&attributeValueType1=STRING&attributeValueOperator1=EQUAL&isFirearm=Y

[MiniZ]

I think rifles started hitting the shelves at the beginning of the year.

It looks like a nice rifle, but there really isn't anything there to make it stand out from the rest of the AR crowd. Prices seem to be in line with the other major manufacturers, so for me personally, I would just stick with Bushmaster, Armalite, etc.

[Lebben-B]

I would imagine it's a bit of marketing toward LEO on the part of SW. "Buy M&P pistols and we'll throw in M&P rifles at reduced cost." or offered as part of a package deal.

Mike

[Onmilo]

I think it might be the other way around.
Buy an MP15 rifle and we will give you a .40 caliber M&P pistol since we built a bunch and potential buyers would rather have a .45 or 9mm and our marketing rep is an idiot!:evil:

[Starter52]

Or maybe: Buy a MP15 rifle and we'll throw in one of our famous "Glock-killer" Sigma pistols. :D

[MyRoad]

I saw and handled one, they look and feel just like the rest of the ARs. The gun store owner told me they have one thing the others don't: S&W's lifetime warranty. I think he said the other makes have a one year warranty... so if they are all using the same parts and cost about the same, that'd be enough to get me thinking about the S&W.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

S&W is mostly using parts supplied by a number of existing quality manufacturers of ARs and AR accessories. If you had the desire and the tools, you could build yourself the same rifle from the same manufacturers.

On the other hand, I don't know what specs S&W is requiring from their suppliers so there could be tighter (or looser) quality control than what you would get from the same manufacturers. In any case, it appears to be a high-quality rifle designed to compete with Colt in the LE market.

[Shootfire]

Where are these rifles manufactured?

Anybody have an opinion on them?

[Ala Dan]

Checked one out today~!:) Handguard is slighty larger in diameter than a
comparable Colt-Rock River- DPMS-Bushy-Armalite, etc, and it felt kind'a
cheezy; with more of a plastic feel, than polymer. Otherwise, I couldn't
find anything else wrong with it; but I would not trade my COLT A3 Match
Target H-BAR for it~!:D

[Trebor]

The addition of the AR rifle, along with the M&P pistol, shows that S&W may be serious about getting back into being a main supplier to PD's.

The M&P pistol is designed to be the "Glock-killer." S&W listened to some of the complains departments have made about the Glock and designed the pistol to address those issues. One example is that you don't have to pull the trigger to dissassemble the M&P. There have been incidents where police officers have had AD's when field striping their Glocks after pulling the trigger for take down. (Yes, it's a training issue, but administrators love 'hardware solutions' to 'software problems.')

By also offering an AR rifle, S&W can become the "One stop shop" source for PD's. I'm sure thay offer some attractive discounts to departments who place orders for both pistols and rifles.

It will be interesting to see how deeply S&W manages to penetrate the LEO market in the next few years. If they follow the strategy that Glock itself pioneered of taking old weapons in trade and offering the pistols below cost, they might be able to convince departments to switch away from Glock. The availability of the AR rifle is the icing on the cake, as that is something that Glock doesn't offer.

Of course, if the M&P pistol or rifle are dogs, the whole thing won't work.

[Lebben-B]

Of course, if the M&P pistol or rifle are dogs, the whole thing won't work.

As Bartholomew pointed out SW is using top quality parts on it's AR. It's awful hard to screw up an AR build if you're using quality parts and know your way around the rifle. The unknown quantity in all this is the pistol. The gun rags are all about the new M&P and user feedback (from forums like this and others) seem to be pretty favorable. But I'm taking a wait and see attitude toward the pistol to find out what bugs crop up after some hard use.

Mike

[Bartholomew Roberts]

On a related note, Armalite is introducing a pistol and a shotgun to their line of firearms (something to do with their recent win of the Illinois State Police contract?) and I hear Glock is working on a 5.56mm semi-auto carbine.

[Don Gwinn]

Feels more like plastic than polymer, huh?

:D:neener: :D

[Foxtrot427]

On a related note, Armalite is introducing a pistol and a shotgun to their line of firearms (something to do with their recent win of the Illinois State Police contract?) and I hear Glock is working on a 5.56mm semi-auto carbine.Woah! Any info about it yet?

[Taurus 617 CCW]

Nothing screams special to me when I look at it. As Bartholomew Roberts pointed out, most of the parts are not made "in house." It's just put together by them and their name is laser engraved on the receiver. I can see how it would appeal to law enforcement through a package deal but for the average civilian consumer, it's not much different from the rest by itself. I personally went with an FN FAL instead and have never looked back.

[Onmilo]

Most of the parts for the S&W 1911 series are not made "in house" either.
For that matter most of the small parts for the Colt AR15/M16 series are not made "in house".

[Ala Dan]

Hey Don Gwinn My Friend-

Yes, the S&W M&P 15 handguard feels like it really is made by MATTEL
as it does have a bit more elasticity (for lack of a better word) to it.:uhoh:

[whm1974]

Prices seem to be in line with the other major manufacturers

I can get a Bushmaster cheaper then the S&W M&P15. Armalite is even cheaper.

-Bill

[jeff-10]

How many AR manufacturers actually make most of there own parts? Doesn't a few companies make the parts and they get assembled by whoever?

[Onmilo]

Yes.

[Ala Dan]

I've been told that DPMS makes most of the AR parts for
other manufactuer'ers~!:uhoh: How true that is, I do not know?:eek:

[Onmilo]

Gads I hope not.
DPMS is like Olympic.
Some of the stuff is very, very good and some of the stuff is just plain cheap and shameful.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

All the AR manufacturers buy parts from the same places and even each other on occasion. RRA manufactured the Bushmaster .308 to use just one example. The thing is that these parts may be finished to different degrees and some manufacturers may require tighter tolerance than others.

One manufacturer might get the receivers in the white and then do the refinishing and final machining themselves. Another might get it delivered ready to sell to customers and not even engrave their own name on it. A third manufacturer might do the same thing; but might use quality control standards that are twice as stringent as what the U.S. military uses (and in that case, do you think the original manufacturer eats the parts that don't meet that spec or just sells them to one of dozens of other AR manufacturers who aren't so picky - there is a reason some brands are consistently cheaper than others).

Woah! Any info about it yet?

The pistol is a DAO 9mm/.40 (http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/pistols.htm) and is based on the Turkish Kilinc pistol (http://www.sarsilmaz.com/eng/main.htm) which appears to be a CZ75 derivative. No word on the shotgun and the Glock rifle is currently still in Internet rumor/myth status.

[seeker_two]

...and I hear Glock is working on a 5.56mm semi-auto carbine.


I'm still surprised that Glock hasn't jumped into the pistol-caliber carbine business yet. With the inroads they have in the LEO market, they should have owned it by now.... :scrutiny:

...and we'd finally have something uglier than the Hi-Points to laugh at... :D

[chakup]

"All the AR manufacturers buy parts from the same places and even each other on occasion. RRA manufactured the Bushmaster .308 to use just one example. The thing is that these parts may be finished to different degrees and some manufacturers may require tighter tolerance than others."

this is not true about RRA. Bushmaster produced their .308 under permission from RRA and there info. RRA will now be producing them in house, and fixing the errors that bushmaster never bothered to adress. and yes a majority of AR parts are bought from a small few companies.

[chakup]

More info on the .308 RRA issue:
http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=38&t=149279

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Suffice it to say the Bushmaster .308 was built on tooling owned by RRA.

[chakup]

Originally Posted By AR15barrels:
Originally Posted By rightwingnut:
Is this a take over/improvement of the BM308 or not? Frick RRA, just answer the question. And if this is just a take over of the BM 308 rifle line, what are you going to do to make it better than the BM.

Since you missed the basic progression...

RRA designs LAR-10
Bushmaster buys manufacturing rights
Bushmaster offers it as a BAR-10 with their name on the side
Bushmaster overprices it and has teething pains with heat treating bolts
Bushmaster drops BAR-10 due to low sales AND to concentrate on making XM-15's
RRA re-introduces LAR-10 with their name on it.
Hopefully, heat treating issues are solved.

You also seem to have missed that RRA is making the price lower and will most likely get the heat treating right the first time.
Chrome lined barrels to follow.

[Correia]

Ala Dan, kind of true, except most DPMS receivers are actually made by LAR out of Utah, so there is even one more step. :) The whole AR business is one big inbred family.