[Langenator]

I've come across a fairly hideous example of a Bubbafied Mosin (see my blog, second post down). Actually, as Bubba jobs go, it's not that bad, the primary tragedy being that it was done to a 1917 Remington made example.

If I can get if for a reasonable price, I'm considering picking it up to recondition it. Putting it back in military M1891 condition would be extremely tough, so what I'd probably do is at least make it a pretty sporter rifle.

So, the key question: does anyone know any 'smiths who rebarrel Mosins? It'd be done in 7.62x54R, to I wouldn't have to play games with the bolt and magazine.

[Pork Fat]

Don't change a thing- Some objects are so primal in their wrongness that they should be preserved. As a rule, I despise Bubbafication(I see a lot of Krags like that:fire: ), but that rifle is absolutely heart stopping. I find these old farmhouse kitchen table hack jobs fascinating and repellent at the same time.

Buy it. Give it a home. Be proud of it. Like Charlie Brown's Christmas tree, I think it needs you somehow. Nothing you could do to tart it up will ever make it more interesting than it is right now.

I have a hex-receiver mosin, and I am quite fond of it, so don't get me wrong when I say that they were born ugly. To then be sporterized with an add-on bit of wood to form a sorta pistol grip thingy on top of all the other things you mentioned is a vile bit of double jeopardy. It's just TOO PERFECT!

P.S.- cool blog- going in "favorites"

[R.W.Dale]

I got one better than that.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/moisin2.jpg

:evil: An old school spanish civil war Moisin Bubbafication, I'm kinda proud of it:D , It shoots really good even through a really rotten bore.

[Langenator]

Well, if it shoots crappy, it'll definitely need a new barrel.

And I figure something that's been so wronged deserves a second chance. Especially one with such a relatively rare receiver.

[Onmilo]

In the Commonwealth of Independant States Mosins are extremely poular rifles for sporterization.
I actually like the looks of a well executed Mosin Sporting rifle!

[Cosmoline]

Lord knows the Finns did a lot of rebarrelling, so it can be done. But then again it's also been done badly many times. I believe if you can find a spare Finnish M-91 barrel at Tenn. parts or Numrich, you would be able to have a gunsmith thread it on to your existing action without too much trouble. If you manage to find a surplus Russian M-91 barrel, chances are it's going to be beaten and worn.

The Finns made a point of pinging the receiver steel at the barrel threads and checked for any cracking, so make sure your smith does it as well. Some of the M-91 receivers were out of round, so be careful about that too.

[Langenator]

Both TNG and Numrich would appear to be out of Mosin barrels at the moment.

Got me thinking, though-if I can find the right parts, as long as I'm replacing the barrel (and the cocking piece/safety), I might even be able to restore this thing to military configuration.

I think the main challenge would be finding a good smith who knows Mosins.

[Chawbaccer]

Don't you think the simpler path would be to just buy an original condition Mosin? Gunsnammo has them from about 150 bucks righ to your door, with bright bores. The other importers like SOG will have them for less than 70 dollars, but will have to be transferred.

[Langenator]

Simpler? Sure. But not near as much fun. Undoing Bubba's handiwork is an interesting challenge.

And actually, I still haven't decided if I'd try to return it to original configuration, or turn it into a pretty hunting rifle.

[MatthewVanitas]

Sure, you _could_ convert it back...

But 50 years from now, folk-art collectors will mourn all the perfectly good (and highly collectable) Bubba-guns that the "purist-geeks" ripped apart to turn into crude imitations of historical guns.

I'd say that the one in your link is interesting enough to leave as-is. Gotta love that peep sight welded to the rear of the bolt. I've only seen that on some really ancient bolt-action rifles. IIRC it was some Remington tube-fed 30-40 boltgun in Guns and Ammo or whatnot. Definitely don't see that nowadays.

-MV

[White Horseradish]

This weekend I came across a really well done Mosin sporter. The rifle looked like it had $500 worth of gunsmithing done to it. Shortened barrel, nice commercial sights, all markings polished off, great bluing job. The catch was the caliber - 30-40 Krag. ***?

Why would anyone put that much work into it? Why would anyone change it from a $0.10/round caliber to $2/round caliber that is less powerful to boot? Go figure...

[Cosmoline]

Probably because it was done long ago. If it's an old US-made Mosin with a hex receiver, chances are it was switched before WWII when 54R was impossible to find but .30-40 Krag was common. Some of the pre-war sporters are actually very well done.

[Brother in Arms]

Krochus
I have an almost identical rifle!!!!! My is a Newenland westinghouse and it has a straght bolt. The barrrel of my rifle is a little longer and it has a frontsite from 1903 springfield. Mine has the nicest bore I have ever seen on any mosin!

Brother in Arms

[Mannlicher]

They are dirt cheap. Throw it away, or save it for a loaner, and just buy another. You probably could buy several for what it would cost to replace the barrel.

[Terrierman]

I especially like the nice stippling on the bolt handle. I'm with Pork Fat, it's folk art, leave it alone.

[R.W.Dale]

Krochus
I have an almost identical rifle!!!!! My is a Newenland westinghouse and it has a straght bolt. The barrrel of my rifle is a little longer and it has a frontsite from 1903 springfield. Mine has the nicest bore I have ever seen on any mosin!


Cool!

Mine is a 1937 Tula Ex Spanish Civil War rifle The pic doesn't show it but the bolt handle on mine is a spoon shaped affair. The bore on my rifle is dark and pitted but it still shoots great.

[White Horseradish]

Probably because it was done long ago. If it's an old US-made Mosin with a hex receiver, chances are it was switched before WWII when 54R was impossible to find but .30-40 Krag was common. Some of the pre-war sporters are actually very well done. Definitely not. The receiver is a round high-wall, indicating wartime or post-war manufacture.


They are dirt cheap. Throw it away, or save it for a loaner, and just buy another. You probably could buy several for what it would cost to replace the barrel. Excuse me, but you don't know what you are talking about. New England Westinghouse and Remington Mosins are neither cheap nor common. I have yet to see one in person that has not been hacked up in some way. Other types are more expensive still. The going price for a Finnish M27 carbine is about $4000.

[R.W.Dale]

Quote:
Probably because it was done long ago. If it's an old US-made Mosin with a hex receiver, chances are it was switched before WWII when 54R was impossible to find but .30-40 Krag was common. Some of the pre-war sporters are actually very well done.
Definitely not. The receiver is a round high-wall, indicating wartime or post-war manufacture.



It's my understanding that up untill the late 80's 7.62x54 ammunition was very hard to come by in this country. So I could see someone rebarreling to 30-40 for reasons of ammunition avalibility alone. Then there is the cool factor If the moisin you speak of was local I'ed try to buy it

[White Horseradish]

It's my understanding that up untill the late 80's 7.62x54 ammunition was very hard to come by in this country. So I could see someone rebarreling to 30-40 for reasons of ammunition avalibility alone. Then there is the cool factor If the moisin you speak of was local I'ed try to buy it

Maybe you're right. I have to admit, the work on the rifle was very nicely done. I still have a hard time seeing 30-40 Krag as a commonly available caliber, though. If I wasn't tapped and only looking for ammo I might've tried for it too. :)

[Koobuh]

I recently acquired a 1917 Rem Mosin in somewhat better condition, though with similarly weird sporterization. The job on this one is somewhat better, however, though it's been beaten up.
The rear sight on mine is a piece of sheetmetal screwed onto the back of the bolt, which had been ground flat, with an 1/8th inch hole for a peep aperture.
Functional, but really a terrible idea. The bolt wobbles around quite a bit, and accuracy at range is really not possible.
Still, I considered it a steal at $100. Nice bore, and it shoots well enough even with the crude sight job that I'm sure changing the sight would yield good results.

Folk art collectors, huh? I guess that's as good a justification as any to not try restoring my own rifle, just in addition to the fact that finding complete rear and front sight assemblies, as well as an unmodified stock, would not only be expensive but nearly impossible.
For now it's just nice to have the clean barreled receiver as a fallback if restoration ever becomes an option.

Incidentally, though it occured to me that ammo would have been hard to find for the rifle, I never considered that it might have been rechambered. Is there a quick and dirty way to check for this? I have already fired it several times with surplus ammo (cleaned properly every time, of course), and the bolt is unmodified, so I'm pretty sure it's not been altered; just for peace of mind, you know.

[mrmeval]

Has anyone put up a step by step guide to rebarreling a Mosin?

[ABTOMAT]

I don't know how good an indicator this is, but my 1965 Shooter's Bible has an ammo section that shows three brands of 30-40 Krag ($4.75 per 20) but absolutely no 7.62x54R. Even the weirdo specials list (which has stuff like 6.5 and 7.7 "Jap") lacks it.

Moving on to the 1965 Gun Digest, it also shows an equal amount of Krag but no lists with 54R. However, in the ammo news section it has a short writeup saying that due to popular demand from newly arrived surplus rifles, Norma was making 7.62 Russian available. It goes on to state that it used to be available in the US from Winchester and Remington, but was dropped from production in 1953.

[Langenator]

Well, the rifle in question is now up to $76.

More than I'm willing to pony up for a curiousity.

[Cosmoline]

It goes on to state that it used to be available in the US from Winchester and Remington, but was dropped from production in 1953.

There were also Cold War considerations at play. By the early 50's the walls had gone up. Even when Lapin first wrote his book in the 1980's many models we now find commonplace were exceptionally rare or even unkown in the flesh on this side of the wall. You couldn't just buy a few thousand and bring them over.

[Langenator]

I wonder if those "newly arrived surplus rifles" back in 1965 were the first Finns to come in? Or were they Mosins that had been captured in Korea and brought back by GIs?

[ABTOMAT]

They made specific mention of the SVT-40. That made me wonder--were they _ever_ that common on this side of the pond?

[Cosmoline]

I wonder if those "newly arrived surplus rifles" back in 1965 were the first Finns to come in? Or were they Mosins that had been captured in Korea and brought back by GIs?

The first large stock of Mosins in the US were of course the US-made M-91's that the Czar never picked up. But those were distributed or destroyed by WWII.

The "newly arrived" ones were probably Finnish backstock. But it's likely they would NOT have been M-39's. The first wave of Finns was mostly M-91's and the Winter War surplus. The Finns held onto their back stock of M-39's and 91/30's until after the bear next door had calmed down. Even today they keep a stock of M-39's and Mosin-based reserve snipers.

[Langenator]

I wonder how many, if any, Mosins were brought back from Korea by GIs. I just saw an M44 (interestingly, Soviet, not Chinese) bringback from Vietnam, apparently captured from an arms cache. Dang that thing was well worn and pitted. Owner didn't even know the condition of the barrel-he was afraid to check. Judging by the condition of the receiver, I'd say he was right.

[Cosmoline]

I just saw an M44 (interestingly, Soviet, not Chinese) bringback from Vietnam, apparently captured from an arms cache.

Remember, China was a sworn enemy of Vietnam. The supplies to the NVA came from the USSR, and included millions of Mosin-Nagants. Both M-44's and M-91/30's.

[Vern Humphrey]

Remember, China was a sworn enemy of Vietnam. The supplies to the NVA came from the USSR, and included millions of Mosin-Nagants. Both M-44's and M-91/30's.

Believe me, most of the small arms, mortars, rockets, compasses, and other gear my company captured was all Chinese-made.

I was at the Canadian Ground Forces Traning Center at Gagetown, New Brunswick around '81 and they had a display -- the NCO held up a weapon and told it was the "famous Russian-made AK 47." I said, "That one's Chinese-made" and heard a shusshing sound. I looked to one side and saw the Chinese military atache smiling and winking at me. :p

[Langenator]

It'd be interesting to see a % breakdown on country of orgin for the AKs (and other weapons, especially RPGs) our forces have captured in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Interesting question: were most of the weapons captured by our troops in Korea made in China or in the USSR? And did it make a difference if those weapons were captured from the North Koreans or the Chinese?

IIRC, the Chinese designation for their copy of the M44 is Type 53, implying that they started production in 1953, which would be (mostly) too late for the active part of the Korean War (which hasn't actually ended, remember?)

[Vern Humphrey]

It'd be interesting to see a % breakdown on country of orgin for the AKs (and other weapons, especially RPGs) our forces have captured in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Interesting question: were most of the weapons captured by our troops in Korea made in China or in the USSR? And did it make a difference if those weapons were captured from the North Koreans or the Chinese?

Most of the weapons captured by the US in the Korean War were Russian. The primary weapon of the ChiComs in that war was a SMG, usually a PPSh 41, or a copy designated the Type 50. Their tanks, artillery, aircraft and so on were all Russian.

IIRC, the Chinese designation for their copy of the M44 is Type 53, implying that they started production in 1953, which would be (mostly) too late for the active part of the Korean War (which hasn't actually ended, remember?)

I know. The bastards shot at me when I was with the 2nd Infantry Division in '80 and '81.